Janis is an innovative, strategic and entrepreneurial-driven Senior Ecommerce & Digital Platform Strategist; leveraging 15+ years of global experience ranging from successful start-ups to established digital agencies.
Talented in running cross-departmental ecommerce groups, digital platform strategy discovery & planning, business analysis, and customer experience design. Effectively bridges the gap between strategy, technology, and creative groups; cultivating imagination, creativity, and empowerment.
Full Transcript: https://v3.commercehero.io/podcast/97
0:00:00.399,0:00:04.400 as consultants and as agencies we are 0:00:03.040,0:00:07.839 not paid enough 0:00:04.400,0:00:12.000 to be able to do a good job 0:00:07.839,0:00:14.920 um the point is statement 0:00:12.000,0:00:17.199 well when you think about 0:00:14.920,0:00:18.400 recommendations like as consultants 0:00:17.199,0:00:19.039 you're like hey dude let's do this do 0:00:18.400,0:00:23.600 that 0:00:19.039,0:00:23.600 we don't have the like obligation to see 0:00:28.840,0:00:37.420 through 0:00:30.370,0:00:37.420 [Music] 0:00:38.480,0:00:41.920 giannis welcome to the show how you 0:00:40.160,0:00:44.160 doing sir 0:00:41.920,0:00:45.039 very good greetings from canada across 0:00:44.160,0:00:47.039 the border 0:00:45.039,0:00:48.800 our borders are closed nobody can go in 0:00:47.039,0:00:49.520 and out but you know our two countries 0:00:48.800,0:00:51.600 or 0:00:49.520,0:00:52.960 at least not for leisure right but at 0:00:51.600,0:00:55.600 least we can we can 0:00:52.960,0:00:57.280 talk over the internet uh can't give 0:00:55.600,0:00:58.640 each other covet or anything like that 0:00:57.280,0:01:01.920 last i checked 0:00:58.640,0:01:05.040 um not yet not yet 0:01:01.920,0:01:07.280 so are you in uh vancouver or 0:01:05.040,0:01:08.159 uh what part yeah i've been here for 13 0:01:07.280,0:01:11.200 years uh 0:01:08.159,0:01:14.720 vancouver west coast uh 0:01:11.200,0:01:15.680 it's um if if have you been here i have 0:01:14.720,0:01:19.040 yeah actually 0:01:15.680,0:01:21.119 i think it was about a year ago 0:01:19.040,0:01:22.320 i went to hang out with jason uh 0:01:21.119,0:01:25.520 billingsley 0:01:22.320,0:01:26.799 uh oh really yeah who is the uh i like 0:01:25.520,0:01:28.479 spent a week hanging out with him and 0:01:26.799,0:01:29.600 he's like the first person that told me 0:01:28.479,0:01:33.439 about you 0:01:29.600,0:01:35.840 uh yes oh wow i love that connection i 0:01:33.439,0:01:39.280 recently reached out to him as well uh 0:01:35.840,0:01:41.280 and uh yeah well he jason 0:01:39.280,0:01:42.880 was responsible for bringing me to 0:01:41.280,0:01:46.720 canada okay 0:01:42.880,0:01:50.399 right right right this is he was heading 0:01:46.720,0:01:53.280 uh elastic path uh at that time 0:01:50.399,0:01:55.680 and uh elastic path won the contract to 0:01:53.280,0:01:59.600 provide e-commerce service for 0:01:55.680,0:02:02.320 winter olympics 2010 in vancouver and 0:01:59.600,0:02:03.799 and yeah and they were casting net wide 0:02:02.320,0:02:05.040 because like that was that was 0:02:03.799,0:02:07.040 pre-recession 0:02:05.040,0:02:08.160 everybody was bringing people over here 0:02:07.040,0:02:10.640 and and 0:02:08.160,0:02:13.040 jason hired me to come from europe to 0:02:10.640,0:02:15.040 help out with like ux and 0:02:13.040,0:02:16.480 front-end experience and ended up 0:02:15.040,0:02:18.400 helping with olympics 0:02:16.480,0:02:20.800 that's awesome and you met him yeah so 0:02:18.400,0:02:21.360 that's he is very key he's very key very 0:02:20.800,0:02:24.000 good guy 0:02:21.360,0:02:25.920 he's a great dude um he's now another 0:02:24.000,0:02:26.560 really like booming industry like real 0:02:25.920,0:02:29.040 estate 0:02:26.560,0:02:30.400 uh yeah with his new with his company 0:02:29.040,0:02:32.400 that he's been for a while 0:02:30.400,0:02:33.440 yeah so he he knows how to tap in the 0:02:32.400,0:02:35.360 right markets 0:02:33.440,0:02:36.480 yes he does yes he does what kind of 0:02:35.360,0:02:39.519 stuff did you do 0:02:36.480,0:02:40.800 uh for the olympics you mentioned ux and 0:02:39.519,0:02:42.560 stuff like that what kind of work did 0:02:40.800,0:02:47.519 you do 0:02:42.560,0:02:49.360 so that was well starting 2008 0:02:47.519,0:02:51.599 so a bunch of these disciplines were 0:02:49.360,0:02:54.720 present but they're not as evolved 0:02:51.599,0:02:56.560 so for me we were responsible for 0:02:54.720,0:02:59.120 handling everything for olympics in 0:02:56.560,0:03:02.000 terms of e-commerce anything from design 0:02:59.120,0:03:03.440 to platform to warehousing customer 0:03:02.000,0:03:05.200 service 0:03:03.440,0:03:06.720 so like full service because olympic 0:03:05.200,0:03:09.360 committee doesn't do 0:03:06.720,0:03:09.920 anything themselves they only contract 0:03:09.360,0:03:13.120 out 0:03:09.920,0:03:15.920 companies to to do it all for them so 0:03:13.120,0:03:18.080 elastic path had this contract to to do 0:03:15.920,0:03:20.959 everything for torch relay 0:03:18.080,0:03:22.640 paralympics main olympics and and we 0:03:20.959,0:03:23.360 also had a contract with hudson bay 0:03:22.640,0:03:25.840 company 0:03:23.360,0:03:27.519 and hockey canada so these are really 0:03:25.840,0:03:28.480 big three organizations that we were 0:03:27.519,0:03:31.360 able to 0:03:28.480,0:03:32.080 build all the e-commerce for them 0:03:31.360,0:03:34.080 customer service 0:03:32.080,0:03:36.480 and fulfillment my specific 0:03:34.080,0:03:39.519 responsibility was the design 0:03:36.480,0:03:42.720 uh the a b testing front-end experience 0:03:39.519,0:03:44.720 uh ux side and um 0:03:42.720,0:03:46.400 it was fascinating because at that time 0:03:44.720,0:03:49.599 that was when we did the first 0:03:46.400,0:03:51.760 a b testing for checkout 0:03:49.599,0:03:54.080 there was a time when it was multiple 0:03:51.760,0:03:54.879 multi-page checkout and we redesigned it 0:03:54.080,0:03:57.360 into 0:03:54.879,0:03:58.959 a single page and we we were partnered 0:03:57.360,0:03:59.680 with a company called wider funnel with 0:03:58.959,0:04:02.560 chris 0:03:59.680,0:04:04.000 goward in town here in vancouver really 0:04:02.560,0:04:05.840 great company uh 0:04:04.000,0:04:07.360 conversion optimization focusing a lot 0:04:05.840,0:04:09.120 of ecomm 0:04:07.360,0:04:10.480 and they helped us with some of the 0:04:09.120,0:04:14.159 methodology and that's when we 0:04:10.480,0:04:16.400 switched from single no from multi-page 0:04:14.159,0:04:18.239 check out the single page and we saw a 0:04:16.400,0:04:21.440 change 0:04:18.239,0:04:23.600 and uh and the funny thing then fast 0:04:21.440,0:04:25.759 forward maybe 0:04:23.600,0:04:28.000 eight years later when i'm running an 0:04:25.759,0:04:31.919 ecom at a biotech company 0:04:28.000,0:04:35.040 we went from single page to multi-page 0:04:31.919,0:04:38.240 uh because it was much better and 0:04:35.040,0:04:40.240 uh so it's it goes in a circle how some 0:04:38.240,0:04:41.520 certain industries just like the same 0:04:40.240,0:04:42.880 things don't work just because you've 0:04:41.520,0:04:45.120 written something 0:04:42.880,0:04:46.639 or designed some really good check out 0:04:45.120,0:04:47.919 doesn't mean it works for everything 0:04:46.639,0:04:50.000 it's funny you mentioned the checkout 0:04:47.919,0:04:52.000 stuff i was looking at 0:04:50.000,0:04:53.759 the i think i was looking at the big 0:04:52.000,0:04:57.040 commerce open checkout 0:04:53.759,0:04:58.880 that they launched recently and there 0:04:57.040,0:05:00.479 was some different 0:04:58.880,0:05:03.120 layout they were giving some different 0:05:00.479,0:05:05.520 examples of the types of 0:05:03.120,0:05:08.880 checkout customizations you could do and 0:05:05.520,0:05:10.960 one of them reminded me exactly of 0:05:08.880,0:05:13.360 one step checkout for magento i don't 0:05:10.960,0:05:15.759 know if you were into magento at all 0:05:13.360,0:05:18.080 but there was this plug-in uh called 0:05:15.759,0:05:21.039 one-step checkout which kind of 0:05:18.080,0:05:23.520 um simplified the checkout for magento 0:05:21.039,0:05:26.479 and became a very popular extension 0:05:23.520,0:05:27.120 i think they're based out of um oh gosh 0:05:26.479,0:05:29.360 i want to say 0:05:27.120,0:05:31.039 norway i could be wrong but some one of 0:05:29.360,0:05:31.600 the countries up there close to you guys 0:05:31.039,0:05:35.759 and 0:05:31.600,0:05:37.680 yeah and you're originally from um 0:05:35.759,0:05:39.120 i'm originally from latvia that's right 0:05:37.680,0:05:41.039 yeah um 0:05:39.120,0:05:42.639 i spent eight years in lithuania so 0:05:41.039,0:05:43.440 people mix up those countries which is 0:05:42.639,0:05:46.000 fine 0:05:43.440,0:05:46.479 they're not the same at least like but 0:05:46.000,0:05:48.400 it's 0:05:46.479,0:05:50.240 for most people it's it's up there 0:05:48.400,0:05:52.479 eastern they're all really cool 0:05:50.240,0:05:54.240 countries that's that's the thing 0:05:52.479,0:05:56.319 uh i think that the cool countries 0:05:54.240,0:05:59.120 everybody associates is the scandinavian 0:05:56.319,0:06:00.800 we are crossing the the baltic sea and 0:05:59.120,0:06:02.240 then you have latvia lithuania estonia 0:06:00.800,0:06:02.720 they're they're they're nice countries 0:06:02.240,0:06:05.280 so 0:06:02.720,0:06:06.720 but nobody really knows of them as cool 0:06:05.280,0:06:08.800 like like we don't have the 0:06:06.720,0:06:11.039 as much musicians or musicians coming 0:06:08.800,0:06:14.319 through right uh from their 0:06:11.039,0:06:16.400 uh skype actually is from estonia 0:06:14.319,0:06:17.440 really originally is that where skype 0:06:16.400,0:06:20.960 was uh 0:06:17.440,0:06:21.840 was uh built it was in uh yeah that's 0:06:20.960,0:06:23.520 awesome 0:06:21.840,0:06:25.120 that's really cool i remember hearing 0:06:23.520,0:06:26.080 some things that really were interesting 0:06:25.120,0:06:28.080 to me about the 0:06:26.080,0:06:30.080 it might have been an estonian 0:06:28.080,0:06:31.280 government related to 0:06:30.080,0:06:33.360 i can't remember what it was it was like 0:06:31.280,0:06:34.240 internet or yeah they're the most 0:06:33.360,0:06:36.800 advanced one 0:06:34.240,0:06:37.919 right right yeah they do they're voting 0:06:36.800,0:06:40.319 through a line 0:06:37.919,0:06:41.600 that was it uh yep so that was it it's 0:06:40.319,0:06:42.560 interesting that topic has come up 0:06:41.600,0:06:43.759 before 0:06:42.560,0:06:46.000 and i think maybe because of the 0:06:43.759,0:06:47.840 elections or um 0:06:46.000,0:06:49.759 but i've had had another conversation 0:06:47.840,0:06:53.280 about that recently what 0:06:49.759,0:06:57.360 what what people miss is were asked 0:06:53.280,0:06:58.800 why why latvia and estonia and lithuania 0:06:57.360,0:06:59.360 because they're called baltic states and 0:06:58.800,0:07:02.160 they're very 0:06:59.360,0:07:03.199 like we go everywhere together but 0:07:02.160,0:07:06.240 they're very different 0:07:03.199,0:07:08.560 quite different and and i think if if 0:07:06.240,0:07:10.680 i'm if i'm right 0:07:08.560,0:07:12.880 when we joined the european union in 0:07:10.680,0:07:14.800 2004 0:07:12.880,0:07:16.560 there's a lot of money from europe 0:07:14.800,0:07:17.039 europe coming in in those countries to 0:07:16.560,0:07:19.440 support 0:07:17.039,0:07:20.720 infrastructures to support various 0:07:19.440,0:07:22.880 different 0:07:20.720,0:07:24.720 rules uh for example uh it was 0:07:22.880,0:07:25.599 subsidizing farmers to not do certain 0:07:24.720,0:07:30.080 type of 0:07:25.599,0:07:33.360 crop or not for fishermen to not do the 0:07:30.080,0:07:33.680 fishing um because it already exists 0:07:33.360,0:07:35.280 that 0:07:33.680,0:07:37.039 already existed within the european 0:07:35.280,0:07:38.560 union so they're subsidizing the farmers 0:07:37.039,0:07:39.840 not to do anything 0:07:38.560,0:07:41.520 and there's a lot of different other 0:07:39.840,0:07:42.319 money coming for roads and other 0:07:41.520,0:07:45.039 infrastructure 0:07:42.319,0:07:46.479 and and what estonia did really well 0:07:45.039,0:07:48.080 very very early on 0:07:46.479,0:07:50.960 they took a lot of that money and 0:07:48.080,0:07:53.039 invested into in tech 0:07:50.960,0:07:55.360 in i.t and tech and that was both in 0:07:53.039,0:07:58.800 education and infrastructure 0:07:55.360,0:08:01.680 and um latvian lithuania didn't do that 0:07:58.800,0:08:03.440 um that much at all uh we're not nearly 0:08:01.680,0:08:05.039 as much as estonia and i 0:08:03.440,0:08:06.720 and i i'd like to think that that was 0:08:05.039,0:08:09.280 that's the reason why so much 0:08:06.720,0:08:09.919 uh great stuff is coming from there now 0:08:09.280,0:08:12.560 that uh 0:08:09.919,0:08:13.120 in comparison to lavi in lithuania that 0:08:12.560,0:08:15.680 maybe 0:08:13.120,0:08:17.120 estonia is also enjoying being proximity 0:08:15.680,0:08:19.280 closer to proximity to 0:08:17.120,0:08:21.919 finland you know there's also good kind 0:08:19.280,0:08:24.639 of scandinavian money coming in 0:08:21.919,0:08:26.319 or other thinking but that's yeah like 0:08:24.639,0:08:27.759 estonia the e-government 0:08:26.319,0:08:29.680 voting so many different things they 0:08:27.759,0:08:30.960 just do online and 0:08:29.680,0:08:32.560 the rest of the world is still just 0:08:30.960,0:08:32.880 trying to figure out like how does that 0:08:32.560,0:08:36.479 work 0:08:32.880,0:08:38.080 yeah i i i can't i'm starting to lose 0:08:36.479,0:08:39.599 count of the number of times i think to 0:08:38.080,0:08:43.039 myself without getting too much 0:08:39.599,0:08:43.919 into uh politics but like why can't we 0:08:43.039,0:08:47.839 vote online 0:08:43.919,0:08:50.560 i mean it's uh it's just it's crazy 0:08:47.839,0:08:51.839 um and i know i don't know i mean you 0:08:50.560,0:08:54.959 would think that bang like 0:08:51.839,0:08:56.480 what's the like i'm when i have 0:08:54.959,0:08:58.160 when i have do when i'm doing some 0:08:56.480,0:09:00.000 services in latvia 0:08:58.160,0:09:01.200 uh if i need to access some government 0:09:00.000,0:09:04.160 related uh 0:09:01.200,0:09:06.800 services or even here in canada i could 0:09:04.160,0:09:08.720 access i could log in to them through my 0:09:06.800,0:09:12.080 bank account 0:09:08.720,0:09:15.680 so bank takes care of authentication 0:09:12.080,0:09:17.040 right and then authorizes that like 0:09:15.680,0:09:18.959 authenticates that you're the real 0:09:17.040,0:09:21.200 person and then that gives me the 0:09:18.959,0:09:24.160 permission to access that other 0:09:21.200,0:09:24.160 system right 0:09:24.240,0:09:30.480 i i have the same question 0:09:28.000,0:09:32.399 what's up um you know that seems to be 0:09:30.480,0:09:33.120 like you could also possibly use the 0:09:32.399,0:09:36.160 same thing 0:09:33.120,0:09:37.680 for yeah uh for like 0:09:36.160,0:09:39.680 you know the authentication is through 0:09:37.680,0:09:41.680 banks and maybe because that's just not 0:09:39.680,0:09:42.959 like not everybody can do that and you 0:09:41.680,0:09:44.800 have to prevent 0:09:42.959,0:09:46.880 double voting you know if you voted 0:09:44.800,0:09:47.839 online what prevents you from taking 0:09:46.880,0:09:50.160 that ballot like 0:09:47.839,0:09:52.240 or going showing off offline right and 0:09:50.160,0:09:54.959 to vote that i think that's maybe 0:09:52.240,0:09:55.920 the biggest concern but yeah seems to be 0:09:54.959,0:09:58.160 the tech is there 0:09:55.920,0:09:59.120 yeah i know and there's their arguments 0:09:58.160,0:10:02.720 that you know 0:09:59.120,0:10:03.839 um like things are not as secure when 0:10:02.720,0:10:05.760 there's different ways things can be 0:10:03.839,0:10:07.680 hacked if it were online 0:10:05.760,0:10:09.440 but then the time to e-commerce as i go 0:10:07.680,0:10:11.200 okay well what if everybody was 0:10:09.440,0:10:12.480 had to walk around handing each other 0:10:11.200,0:10:14.800 paper money 0:10:12.480,0:10:16.079 uh to do e-commerce it would it would 0:10:14.800,0:10:19.440 make no sense 0:10:16.079,0:10:21.920 you know um yeah so yeah it's i mean 0:10:19.440,0:10:25.120 it's there's so much already being done 0:10:21.920,0:10:26.480 and i could understand there's certain 0:10:25.120,0:10:28.959 type of maybe like a 0:10:26.480,0:10:30.560 federal election maybe like that kind of 0:10:28.959,0:10:31.839 like huge elections presidential 0:10:30.560,0:10:33.200 elections might not be something you 0:10:31.839,0:10:34.959 want to test out it on 0:10:33.200,0:10:36.240 right but there might be some municipal 0:10:34.959,0:10:38.000 ones right 0:10:36.240,0:10:39.839 some smaller ones that you could test to 0:10:38.000,0:10:41.600 test it out how does that work 0:10:39.839,0:10:44.000 uh i don't know i mean we are dealing 0:10:41.600,0:10:45.680 with big countries estonia 0:10:44.000,0:10:47.200 you know i mean i can't remember how 0:10:45.680,0:10:47.839 many million there are in latvia for 0:10:47.200,0:10:50.880 example there's 0:10:47.839,0:10:53.600 two million people so 0:10:50.880,0:10:55.040 the the diversity of banks and and 0:10:53.600,0:10:55.760 different systems is not going to be as 0:10:55.040,0:10:58.240 huge as 0:10:55.760,0:10:58.800 you're gonna see it in the u.s right 0:10:58.240,0:11:00.480 yeah 0:10:58.800,0:11:02.000 so that's uh that might be another 0:11:00.480,0:11:03.279 reason yeah hopefully we'll make some 0:11:02.000,0:11:06.240 progress on that soon 0:11:03.279,0:11:07.440 um but uh what have you been uh working 0:11:06.240,0:11:10.800 on recently 0:11:07.440,0:11:14.320 um that that's top of mind for you 0:11:10.800,0:11:17.440 that is top of mind for me right now 0:11:14.320,0:11:19.760 uh eco like so for me i've switched 0:11:17.440,0:11:20.720 i i focus both on product development 0:11:19.760,0:11:24.800 and e-commerce 0:11:20.720,0:11:27.120 yeah uh so i have found 0:11:24.800,0:11:28.399 so dude both of those worlds are really 0:11:27.120,0:11:31.279 really big in my life 0:11:28.399,0:11:33.360 in my professional life right now i i 0:11:31.279,0:11:36.000 work a lot with agencies 0:11:33.360,0:11:36.560 other other good digital agencies like 0:11:36.000,0:11:39.040 there's 0:11:36.560,0:11:40.079 some more like apply digital they've 0:11:39.040,0:11:42.560 done amazingly 0:11:40.079,0:11:43.120 good job with the digital product 0:11:42.560,0:11:45.040 development 0:11:43.120,0:11:46.320 in north america there's a domain seven 0:11:45.040,0:11:49.440 as well similar 0:11:46.320,0:11:50.959 both of them are in vancouver and and 0:11:49.440,0:11:55.040 then there's also clients that i 0:11:50.959,0:11:55.600 work directly and so for me i constantly 0:11:55.040,0:11:57.920 have this 0:11:55.600,0:11:58.639 a little bit uh like a dual life going 0:11:57.920,0:12:00.720 on you know 0:11:58.639,0:12:02.480 like e-commerce but but i find that 0:12:00.720,0:12:04.079 e-com and product development is 0:12:02.480,0:12:06.079 becoming 0:12:04.079,0:12:07.200 similar you know like whether you're 0:12:06.079,0:12:09.680 making apps for 0:12:07.200,0:12:10.959 e-com system or whether you make apps 0:12:09.680,0:12:13.040 for some other system 0:12:10.959,0:12:14.560 or it's kind of the same stuff you know 0:12:13.040,0:12:15.200 you have to understand the customer the 0:12:14.560,0:12:16.720 user 0:12:15.200,0:12:18.399 like business priorities technology 0:12:16.720,0:12:21.680 capabilities 0:12:18.399,0:12:24.959 and um and so for me in the 0:12:21.680,0:12:26.320 e-commerce world what i find is i find 0:12:24.959,0:12:29.600 this switch 0:12:26.320,0:12:31.839 from or i have found this niche working 0:12:29.600,0:12:35.360 with some almost like this interim 0:12:31.839,0:12:39.279 ecom director 0:12:35.360,0:12:42.160 where the client 0:12:39.279,0:12:44.639 is not as big to be able to afford an 0:12:42.160,0:12:47.600 agency to do everything for them 0:12:44.639,0:12:48.560 and they are not as big either to be 0:12:47.600,0:12:50.959 able to hire 0:12:48.560,0:12:52.079 like in-house everyone and so they need 0:12:50.959,0:12:54.079 someone who 0:12:52.079,0:12:56.000 is coming from outside with an 0:12:54.079,0:12:57.279 experience to work with internal 0:12:56.000,0:13:01.040 resources 0:12:57.279,0:13:02.639 to guide them and and manage them like 0:13:01.040,0:13:05.040 project manage them almost 0:13:02.639,0:13:05.920 and and get the work done so that's been 0:13:05.040,0:13:08.480 an interesting kind 0:13:05.920,0:13:09.839 of like a little switch that i've that 0:13:08.480,0:13:12.399 i've experienced 0:13:09.839,0:13:14.000 and so instead of building instead of 0:13:12.399,0:13:15.760 working for one e-commerce company to 0:13:14.000,0:13:17.680 build everything out you know you start 0:13:15.760,0:13:21.440 having these clients that need 0:13:17.680,0:13:25.680 almost like this interim interim uh 0:13:21.440,0:13:25.680 e-commerce manager as a service 0:13:25.839,0:13:29.519 i recently spoke oh no sorry please go 0:13:28.720,0:13:31.200 ahead 0:13:29.519,0:13:32.720 no no i just recently spoke even to 0:13:31.200,0:13:34.720 another agency 0:13:32.720,0:13:36.240 uh interesting interesting friend of 0:13:34.720,0:13:38.639 mine came from 0:13:36.240,0:13:40.480 boston consulting group in london 0:13:38.639,0:13:42.720 digital ventures and 0:13:40.480,0:13:44.720 and they are talking about almost like a 0:13:42.720,0:13:48.320 co-founder as a service 0:13:44.720,0:13:51.760 um so there might be some service 0:13:48.320,0:13:54.240 like service level um jobs 0:13:51.760,0:13:55.120 so to say uh that you know the company 0:13:54.240,0:13:56.639 doesn't need you 0:13:55.120,0:13:58.560 full time they can't afford you full 0:13:56.639,0:13:59.839 time and they have their own internal 0:13:58.560,0:14:00.880 resources but they just need to be 0:13:59.839,0:14:03.040 guided better 0:14:00.880,0:14:04.480 right so it's an interesting concept 0:14:03.040,0:14:05.680 we'll see where that goes maybe there's 0:14:04.480,0:14:07.600 just a need right now 0:14:05.680,0:14:08.800 that's really interesting because a lot 0:14:07.600,0:14:11.839 of time thinking of a 0:14:08.800,0:14:12.880 a um a whole big wholesaler i talked to 0:14:11.839,0:14:16.320 recently 0:14:12.880,0:14:18.720 um who is looking to do some hiring 0:14:16.320,0:14:20.320 and some like most of the time when 0:14:18.720,0:14:21.199 somebody's hiring through commerce hero 0:14:20.320,0:14:22.959 it tends to be 0:14:21.199,0:14:24.480 an agency that's sort of the niche that 0:14:22.959,0:14:25.680 works out well for us they have a team 0:14:24.480,0:14:27.199 of developers they want to add a 0:14:25.680,0:14:30.880 developer to a team 0:14:27.199,0:14:32.320 when i deal directly with merchants um 0:14:30.880,0:14:34.639 it's it's almost like there's like a 0:14:32.320,0:14:37.680 translation issue sometimes 0:14:34.639,0:14:38.720 and uh i can sometimes now start to 0:14:37.680,0:14:40.639 sense 0:14:38.720,0:14:43.279 that like they needed that e-commerce 0:14:40.639,0:14:47.440 director or that e-commerce manager role 0:14:43.279,0:14:49.360 um to uh to kind of drive things 0:14:47.440,0:14:50.560 and so they might think like oh i need 0:14:49.360,0:14:52.880 to hire 0:14:50.560,0:14:53.680 uh a developer or a technical lead or 0:14:52.880,0:14:56.480 something like that 0:14:53.680,0:14:58.160 but what they really need is like you 0:14:56.480,0:14:59.600 like that type of a person the ecom 0:14:58.160,0:15:02.720 director as a service kind of 0:14:59.600,0:15:04.880 thing to help them kind of drive things 0:15:02.720,0:15:06.560 and define things 0:15:04.880,0:15:08.320 yeah and quite often what happens is 0:15:06.560,0:15:09.600 even if they are bringing in that 0:15:08.320,0:15:12.959 developer 0:15:09.600,0:15:14.240 which might be the right choice 0:15:12.959,0:15:16.560 they need to be able to speak the 0:15:14.240,0:15:18.240 language the speak to be understand how 0:15:16.560,0:15:20.240 to manage a developer 0:15:18.240,0:15:21.519 uh you know quite often these companies 0:15:20.240,0:15:23.199 are 0:15:21.519,0:15:24.720 they're good businesses they're like 0:15:23.199,0:15:28.480 they have passion they 0:15:24.720,0:15:30.639 probably have started offline and 0:15:28.480,0:15:32.880 and they've run their first e-commerce 0:15:30.639,0:15:34.430 store on something very basic 0:15:32.880,0:15:36.399 and now they want to grow and 0:15:34.430,0:15:38.839 [Music] 0:15:36.399,0:15:42.880 bring in another and like some 0:15:38.839,0:15:44.880 specialists or developers or designers 0:15:42.880,0:15:46.639 doesn't mean that suddenly they will be 0:15:44.880,0:15:47.680 able to do everything all the magic for 0:15:46.639,0:15:49.600 them the owner 0:15:47.680,0:15:51.360 also needs to be able to manage that 0:15:49.600,0:15:53.920 type of 0:15:51.360,0:15:55.279 discipline yeah you know that you have 0:15:53.920,0:15:57.120 to be able to speak the 0:15:55.279,0:15:58.959 developer's language you know it's easy 0:15:57.120,0:16:00.480 to get frustrated it doesn't work wise 0:15:58.959,0:16:01.839 it has bugs you know but 0:16:00.480,0:16:03.519 you need to be able to speak that 0:16:01.839,0:16:06.480 language provide the details 0:16:03.519,0:16:07.600 on the level that they need and that's 0:16:06.480,0:16:10.399 that's where i 0:16:07.600,0:16:12.880 i started originally as a designer i 0:16:10.399,0:16:16.160 started earning money as a designer 0:16:12.880,0:16:20.959 so that has given me an understanding 0:16:16.160,0:16:23.040 of what design is i can't do it anymore 0:16:20.959,0:16:25.120 like every designer is so much better 0:16:23.040,0:16:26.240 has evolved it like the different tools 0:16:25.120,0:16:29.519 that are being used 0:16:26.240,0:16:33.600 but i can speak that language yeah and 0:16:29.519,0:16:35.360 and same is for tech i i i started 0:16:33.600,0:16:37.199 no it's not like development but i did 0:16:35.360,0:16:39.680 build websites like that 0:16:37.199,0:16:41.519 when the css came out i was i remember i 0:16:39.680,0:16:43.199 was doing the transition from 0:16:41.519,0:16:44.800 hey we're not doing tables we're doing 0:16:43.199,0:16:46.720 css 0:16:44.800,0:16:48.720 and that gave me a little bit better 0:16:46.720,0:16:50.240 understanding of development and i've 0:16:48.720,0:16:52.399 learned something like and i've been 0:16:50.240,0:16:54.480 working with engineers like most of my 0:16:52.399,0:16:58.000 professional life now 0:16:54.480,0:16:59.759 and that gives me an ability to 0:16:58.000,0:17:01.839 to speak their language so i'm almost 0:16:59.759,0:17:03.360 finding that i'm i'm in the middle 0:17:01.839,0:17:06.640 between business 0:17:03.360,0:17:08.400 and technology and design and 0:17:06.640,0:17:10.400 and i'm able to speak all their 0:17:08.400,0:17:13.919 languages without them needing 0:17:10.400,0:17:15.199 like a lead in each and and yeah like 0:17:13.919,0:17:17.039 it's uh sometimes you need that 0:17:15.199,0:17:19.760 translator or to set 0:17:17.039,0:17:20.559 to set the foundation um but i don't 0:17:19.760,0:17:23.039 think that 0:17:20.559,0:17:23.839 the company needs me like forever 0:17:23.039,0:17:25.439 there's certain 0:17:23.839,0:17:27.760 sometimes you just need to have solve a 0:17:25.439,0:17:30.720 problem right otherwise at other times 0:17:27.760,0:17:31.600 the retainer one day a week two days a 0:17:30.720,0:17:33.919 week depends on 0:17:31.600,0:17:35.360 how crazy it is right so that's been a 0:17:33.919,0:17:38.640 big big topic 0:17:35.360,0:17:40.720 for me and um and 0:17:38.640,0:17:42.640 and and then in the product development 0:17:40.720,0:17:44.720 they're similar like head of product 0:17:42.640,0:17:49.039 like interim head of products 0:17:44.720,0:17:51.520 where company is growing like crazy 0:17:49.039,0:17:52.720 this amazing company called interactio 0:17:51.520,0:17:56.320 they 0:17:52.720,0:17:58.799 uh we know when you go to conferences 0:17:56.320,0:18:00.000 or some big events where multi 0:17:58.799,0:18:03.600 multilingual speakers 0:18:00.000,0:18:05.600 are performing um churches 0:18:03.600,0:18:06.720 they every time you go there you need a 0:18:05.600,0:18:08.720 headset to 0:18:06.720,0:18:11.200 to pick up a headset so you know what 0:18:08.720,0:18:14.559 what's happening yep 0:18:11.200,0:18:16.720 so what they figured out is 0:18:14.559,0:18:18.400 that you don't need that headset that 0:18:16.720,0:18:19.200 just wears down and nobody wants to 0:18:18.400,0:18:21.200 really like 0:18:19.200,0:18:23.440 use somebody's else like heads 0:18:21.200,0:18:24.960 headphones and put them on on yourself 0:18:23.440,0:18:27.280 especially in this world right now that 0:18:24.960,0:18:29.679 we're just so careful not to do anything 0:18:27.280,0:18:30.880 but that was preferred uh everybody has 0:18:29.679,0:18:32.720 a phone 0:18:30.880,0:18:34.559 so that's already that that device the 0:18:32.720,0:18:37.039 receiver uh everybody 0:18:34.559,0:18:38.000 most people carry their own headphones 0:18:37.039,0:18:40.720 with them 0:18:38.000,0:18:42.640 and you have wi-fi so you do not need 0:18:40.720,0:18:44.160 that hardware that was 0:18:42.640,0:18:45.679 industry standard you do not need that 0:18:44.160,0:18:48.799 hardware anymore right 0:18:45.679,0:18:51.120 you can simply have an app through wi-fi 0:18:48.799,0:18:52.080 and an interpreter doesn't need to be at 0:18:51.120,0:18:54.640 the event 0:18:52.080,0:18:56.320 they could be somewhere else so the 0:18:54.640,0:18:59.360 costs are are so much 0:18:56.320,0:19:02.559 smaller so what they did with the 0:18:59.360,0:19:04.880 now that the code started 0:19:02.559,0:19:06.720 they obviously events dropped 0:19:04.880,0:19:08.960 significantly 0:19:06.720,0:19:11.360 but the government especially in europe 0:19:08.960,0:19:12.960 where you have 10 15 different languages 0:19:11.360,0:19:14.880 spoken at the same time 0:19:12.960,0:19:16.000 you need you need you need the ability 0:19:14.880,0:19:19.200 for governments to have 0:19:16.000,0:19:21.440 meetings and then translate it 0:19:19.200,0:19:22.640 so zooms and regular tools don't really 0:19:21.440,0:19:26.480 work because you have 0:19:22.640,0:19:28.799 15 20 people simultaneously talking 0:19:26.480,0:19:30.320 uh so that that wouldn't work uh that 0:19:28.799,0:19:33.679 would be terrible meeting 0:19:30.320,0:19:34.960 so they built uh on a on the foundation 0:19:33.679,0:19:36.799 that on the previous foundation they 0:19:34.960,0:19:38.640 built that tool so they've grown they've 0:19:36.799,0:19:41.679 been doing so successfully 0:19:38.640,0:19:43.280 well that um they 0:19:41.679,0:19:45.200 are still a small team so they need an 0:19:43.280,0:19:46.000 extra kind of very temporary help to 0:19:45.200,0:19:48.640 come in 0:19:46.000,0:19:49.840 and help to to solve some of the 0:19:48.640,0:19:50.880 problems that they never thought they 0:19:49.840,0:19:52.240 need to face 0:19:50.880,0:19:53.919 you know there's some of the product 0:19:52.240,0:19:56.799 management some of that is just 0:19:53.919,0:19:57.360 like people management process you know 0:19:56.799,0:19:59.280 things that 0:19:57.360,0:20:00.640 uh we laugh like somebody with gray hair 0:19:59.280,0:20:02.960 to come in and 0:20:00.640,0:20:05.039 give some give some guidance but really 0:20:02.960,0:20:05.600 they've done amazing the right job like 0:20:05.039,0:20:06.880 it's like 0:20:05.600,0:20:08.720 what they've done but they need an 0:20:06.880,0:20:11.919 additional help now to 0:20:08.720,0:20:13.840 to survive that crazy uh growth 0:20:11.919,0:20:15.760 yeah for the next six months so that 0:20:13.840,0:20:17.919 that's another uh thing on my 0:20:15.760,0:20:20.480 mind a lot now it's interesting the 0:20:17.919,0:20:23.280 space related to um 0:20:20.480,0:20:23.760 conferences virtual conferences i've 0:20:23.280,0:20:26.080 i've been 0:20:23.760,0:20:27.840 thinking about that because i would go 0:20:26.080,0:20:29.840 to conferences somewhere regularly and 0:20:27.840,0:20:31.520 you know kind of enjoyed them 0:20:29.840,0:20:33.120 and in some ways a lot of the podcasting 0:20:31.520,0:20:35.520 i'm doing is kind of a replacement for 0:20:33.120,0:20:38.880 that conference hallway track 0:20:35.520,0:20:39.200 and um you know different um companies 0:20:38.880,0:20:40.799 are 0:20:39.200,0:20:42.960 attacking solving this problem in 0:20:40.799,0:20:45.280 different ways 0:20:42.960,0:20:46.960 there's a solution called hop in which 0:20:45.280,0:20:49.919 is like a 0:20:46.960,0:20:51.919 uh online event platform uh that has 0:20:49.919,0:20:52.880 some cool features to it like networking 0:20:51.919,0:20:55.840 features 0:20:52.880,0:20:58.640 uh but you can never really recreate the 0:20:55.840,0:21:00.720 in-person experience of a conference 0:20:58.640,0:21:03.120 but i'm not at all i'm interested in 0:21:00.720,0:21:06.080 seeing if we're getting closer to that 0:21:03.120,0:21:07.919 if there's stuff out there that's um you 0:21:06.080,0:21:09.919 know getting incrementally closer to 0:21:07.919,0:21:13.600 experiences that really make you feel 0:21:09.919,0:21:14.000 almost in person like what do you miss 0:21:13.600,0:21:16.480 about 0:21:14.000,0:21:17.679 in-person conferences the most now i 0:21:16.480,0:21:20.240 think it's um 0:21:17.679,0:21:21.360 that's a great question it's it's the 0:21:20.240,0:21:24.720 whole experience 0:21:21.360,0:21:27.440 it's going somewhere being somewhere new 0:21:24.720,0:21:27.919 being in a conference space uh hanging 0:21:27.440,0:21:31.520 out with 0:21:27.919,0:21:33.280 you know buddies you know um colleagues 0:21:31.520,0:21:34.080 and who are colleagues and friends and 0:21:33.280,0:21:36.960 just 0:21:34.080,0:21:38.000 you know talking informally about things 0:21:36.960,0:21:40.799 um 0:21:38.000,0:21:41.679 and just just the connection you know 0:21:40.799,0:21:43.840 yeah 0:21:41.679,0:21:45.679 um i find that that's but it's not the 0:21:43.840,0:21:46.960 knowledge often what i miss yeah the 0:21:45.679,0:21:48.640 knowledge exists there 0:21:46.960,0:21:50.320 yeah like you don't need to go to a 0:21:48.640,0:21:52.000 conference to learn something really 0:21:50.320,0:21:53.520 like i mean no matter how we justify the 0:21:52.000,0:21:56.880 budgets like yeah 0:21:53.520,0:21:59.600 it's really just there to to 0:21:56.880,0:22:01.600 to network to to hang out with with your 0:21:59.600,0:22:03.919 friends to hang out with industry people 0:22:01.600,0:22:06.080 yeah it's not i at least in my 0:22:03.919,0:22:07.840 experience it hasn't been as much 0:22:06.080,0:22:09.679 whenever i've gone to conferences be 0:22:07.840,0:22:11.840 like okay yeah like it's 0:22:09.679,0:22:15.200 i've known that um and that's not 0:22:11.840,0:22:18.159 speaking that i know everything but it's 0:22:15.200,0:22:19.600 i love to speak to speakers and like i 0:22:18.159,0:22:21.760 love to meet up with friends 0:22:19.600,0:22:23.200 i love to just be in different places 0:22:21.760,0:22:25.360 and i think that's maybe 0:22:23.200,0:22:26.480 what the conference really adds yeah 0:22:25.360,0:22:29.600 that and 0:22:26.480,0:22:29.919 like now we can't really have the same 0:22:29.600,0:22:32.960 thing 0:22:29.919,0:22:34.640 yeah it's not the same yeah yeah 0:22:32.960,0:22:36.960 it's blowing up i mean comfort like the 0:22:34.640,0:22:40.799 digital like event 0:22:36.960,0:22:44.159 event startups uh education 0:22:40.799,0:22:44.559 is is crazy like um a good friend of 0:22:44.159,0:22:46.640 mine 0:22:44.559,0:22:48.559 she's running a new education company 0:22:46.640,0:22:51.520 called class rebel 0:22:48.559,0:22:52.640 you know and that's on the premise that 0:22:51.520,0:22:55.120 the 0:22:52.640,0:22:56.799 like the learning is not stopping 0:22:55.120,0:22:58.960 anymore at the university level like the 0:22:56.799,0:23:00.640 learning is becoming lifestyle 0:22:58.960,0:23:02.720 you know it's almost like a social club 0:23:00.640,0:23:06.480 of learning and 0:23:02.720,0:23:08.960 and so how do we how do we bring that 0:23:06.480,0:23:11.919 in like we have courseras and we have 0:23:08.960,0:23:14.640 master classes and those are 0:23:11.919,0:23:16.080 successful in their in their ways and 0:23:14.640,0:23:17.120 but there is something about live 0:23:16.080,0:23:19.520 education 0:23:17.120,0:23:23.440 uh like live scalable education so to 0:23:19.520,0:23:25.440 say that that's that something is still 0:23:23.440,0:23:26.559 unearthed and maybe not fully like 0:23:25.440,0:23:28.000 developed 0:23:26.559,0:23:29.679 because we have like we have so much 0:23:28.000,0:23:31.280 material again so much blog so much 0:23:29.679,0:23:32.159 coursera so much masterclass all these 0:23:31.280,0:23:35.360 videos exist 0:23:32.159,0:23:38.400 so much um but there's something about 0:23:35.360,0:23:40.799 us still not going through them and and 0:23:38.400,0:23:43.840 i think because there's that live 0:23:40.799,0:23:45.039 ability to talk to an instructor ability 0:23:43.840,0:23:47.679 to 0:23:45.039,0:23:49.120 um to intervene or like discuss with 0:23:47.679,0:23:52.240 other classmates like 0:23:49.120,0:23:53.120 that's something that is missing for the 0:23:52.240,0:23:54.400 corporate 0:23:53.120,0:23:55.760 education but kind of like the 0:23:54.400,0:23:57.200 professional education of corporate 0:23:55.760,0:23:59.120 professional education 0:23:57.200,0:24:01.279 so that's uh that's another interesting 0:23:59.120,0:24:03.919 place um 0:24:01.279,0:24:04.559 that we that i'm seeing a growth because 0:24:03.919,0:24:06.799 of this 0:24:04.559,0:24:09.919 isolation that we have so yeah i think 0:24:06.799,0:24:12.240 the the online education space is 0:24:09.919,0:24:13.919 so interesting there's so many um 0:24:12.240,0:24:14.480 companies attacking it from different 0:24:13.919,0:24:16.159 angles 0:24:14.480,0:24:19.120 lambda school is one i'm really 0:24:16.159,0:24:22.320 interested in it's like a coding school 0:24:19.120,0:24:24.240 with an interesting uh financing model 0:24:22.320,0:24:27.200 you know where you don't pay anything 0:24:24.240,0:24:29.600 unless you graduate and get a job and 0:24:27.200,0:24:31.679 um i think a lot about yeah i saw that 0:24:29.600,0:24:34.000 and i was very curious this is maybe 0:24:31.679,0:24:34.799 my i don't know why i thought it's like 0:24:34.000,0:24:37.440 okay what's the 0:24:34.799,0:24:39.440 what's mechanism of like them checking 0:24:37.440,0:24:41.919 up on you and getting paid 0:24:39.440,0:24:43.600 like if that's a good question like a 0:24:41.919,0:24:45.840 lot of honor system i wonder 0:24:43.600,0:24:46.640 yeah i i don't know exactly i'm sure 0:24:45.840,0:24:48.559 they have 0:24:46.640,0:24:50.000 you know some kind of a system to deal 0:24:48.559,0:24:52.400 with that i believe i saw the 0:24:50.000,0:24:53.919 um the founder at one point tweeted some 0:24:52.400,0:24:56.000 of the numbers of 0:24:53.919,0:24:58.000 any problems they had with collecting 0:24:56.000,0:25:01.039 payment it was a pretty small number 0:24:58.000,0:25:03.039 um but um yeah 0:25:01.039,0:25:04.640 that's uh it's called an income share 0:25:03.039,0:25:06.640 agreement isa 0:25:04.640,0:25:08.000 and i think that in and of itself is 0:25:06.640,0:25:09.520 kind of might become 0:25:08.000,0:25:11.279 an industry in and of itself these 0:25:09.520,0:25:13.039 income share agreements 0:25:11.279,0:25:15.440 um because you know there's so many 0:25:13.039,0:25:16.000 issues it's just like these micro 0:25:15.440,0:25:19.520 payments 0:25:16.000,0:25:19.520 which is you know yeah 0:25:20.799,0:25:25.039 it's it's like that what we what we just 0:25:22.880,0:25:28.080 see like who is going public now um 0:25:25.039,0:25:31.679 firma i'm filing for ipo 0:25:28.080,0:25:34.159 um you know the micropayments um 0:25:31.679,0:25:35.440 and so you have the installment payments 0:25:34.159,0:25:37.840 um 0:25:35.440,0:25:38.480 and so you you oh is that something 0:25:37.840,0:25:42.320 similar 0:25:38.480,0:25:45.760 already installment yeah 0:25:42.320,0:25:48.080 yep yep you know there you know that's 0:25:45.760,0:25:49.840 like and then shopify as well they 0:25:48.080,0:25:51.840 announced earlier this year that they're 0:25:49.840,0:25:53.279 they're having their like part of their 0:25:51.840,0:25:55.840 platform is going to be 0:25:53.279,0:25:57.279 something similar or is already i can 0:25:55.840,0:26:00.880 recall 0:25:57.279,0:26:02.159 and so you see these these financing 0:26:00.880,0:26:04.960 options 0:26:02.159,0:26:05.440 uh being brought in not as a third party 0:26:04.960,0:26:08.159 to be 0:26:05.440,0:26:08.720 like into a platform that you could use 0:26:08.159,0:26:11.440 as a company 0:26:08.720,0:26:12.559 they're already part of a platform and 0:26:11.440,0:26:15.279 [Music] 0:26:12.559,0:26:17.039 and so are we going to see education 0:26:15.279,0:26:20.000 startups 0:26:17.039,0:26:20.799 and financial services being kind of 0:26:20.000,0:26:23.840 like 0:26:20.799,0:26:26.000 like one and the same 0:26:23.840,0:26:27.600 you do not need to go get a loan anymore 0:26:26.000,0:26:29.440 somewhere like it's just like 0:26:27.600,0:26:31.600 there's different mechanisms how you can 0:26:29.440,0:26:35.520 start paying and how you can pay later 0:26:31.600,0:26:36.559 from your salary yeah it's fascinating 0:26:35.520,0:26:38.320 like i mean it was 0:26:36.559,0:26:39.840 because like the the founder of lambda 0:26:38.320,0:26:41.600 school gave the example 0:26:39.840,0:26:43.120 that af and they have a nine month 0:26:41.600,0:26:44.159 program so you can go through a 0:26:43.120,0:26:47.200 nine-month program 0:26:44.159,0:26:49.440 get a job and then you pay something 0:26:47.200,0:26:51.120 something like some percentage of your 0:26:49.440,0:26:52.320 salary if you make more than fifty 0:26:51.120,0:26:54.240 thousand dollars 0:26:52.320,0:26:55.679 so and then that only lasts for like 0:26:54.240,0:26:58.640 three years so at the end of 0:26:55.679,0:26:59.440 four years you've gone to school you've 0:26:58.640,0:27:02.080 paid off 0:26:59.440,0:27:03.840 what you were what you owed completely 0:27:02.080,0:27:05.200 and you have a great job probably making 0:27:03.840,0:27:07.760 six figures 0:27:05.200,0:27:08.559 and you compare that to a traditional at 0:27:07.760,0:27:10.159 least in the u.s 0:27:08.559,0:27:12.400 four-year education with the at the end 0:27:10.159,0:27:14.880 of that four years you owe 0:27:12.400,0:27:16.400 a hundred thousand right and it's it's 0:27:14.880,0:27:19.520 just night and day different 0:27:16.400,0:27:20.159 it's really kind of it is that topic is 0:27:19.520,0:27:21.919 very like 0:27:20.159,0:27:23.679 what so what do you think it was is 0:27:21.919,0:27:25.679 there a place for what's what's what's 0:27:23.679,0:27:27.679 the future for 0:27:25.679,0:27:28.960 for education institutions like what's 0:27:27.679,0:27:32.320 the what's the future for 0:27:28.960,0:27:34.480 universities colleges i ah i don't 0:27:32.320,0:27:35.919 i have to say as somebody who is a 0:27:34.480,0:27:39.440 developer 0:27:35.919,0:27:42.480 and who went to um university but uh 0:27:39.440,0:27:44.159 you know i feel like most of my skills 0:27:42.480,0:27:46.480 that have actually paid the bills 0:27:44.159,0:27:48.240 have all been things i learned myself as 0:27:46.480,0:27:49.600 a developer and being you know kind of a 0:27:48.240,0:27:52.320 business owner 0:27:49.600,0:27:54.159 i you know we also homeschool our kids 0:27:52.320,0:27:56.640 so i think a lot about 0:27:54.159,0:27:58.159 their futures and their you know career 0:27:56.640,0:28:00.960 trajectories and 0:27:58.159,0:28:02.080 i'm i'm much more bullish on the kind of 0:28:00.960,0:28:06.320 entrepreneurial 0:28:02.080,0:28:08.240 learn skills yourself um you know route 0:28:06.320,0:28:09.840 there's a lot of obviously things that 0:28:08.240,0:28:11.360 make sense for a more traditional 0:28:09.840,0:28:12.640 educational path there's a lot of great 0:28:11.360,0:28:14.559 things about 0:28:12.640,0:28:16.480 you know going to university it's a cool 0:28:14.559,0:28:19.679 experience but it's just gotten 0:28:16.480,0:28:21.120 very expensive you know have you decided 0:28:19.679,0:28:22.640 like how how far are you gonna 0:28:21.120,0:28:24.799 homeschool your kids 0:28:22.640,0:28:25.760 we don't know exactly you know it's one 0:28:24.799,0:28:28.080 of those things you kind of have to play 0:28:25.760,0:28:30.159 by ear if they start to really want to 0:28:28.080,0:28:32.240 um go into public school or something 0:28:30.159,0:28:34.799 like that then you say okay cool 0:28:32.240,0:28:35.760 but the plan is to do it as long as we 0:28:34.799,0:28:38.159 can 0:28:35.760,0:28:40.240 um so we'll see how how long that lasts 0:28:38.159,0:28:41.360 but throughout the whole process they're 0:28:40.240,0:28:44.080 involved in all sorts of 0:28:41.360,0:28:46.159 extracurriculars and volunteering 0:28:44.080,0:28:48.399 and i want to get them to start doing 0:28:46.159,0:28:51.200 entrepreneurial things as young as 0:28:48.399,0:28:52.159 you know like teenagers um actually my 0:28:51.200,0:28:54.640 daughter 0:28:52.159,0:28:57.039 she draws a lot she draws all the time 0:28:54.640,0:28:58.960 and stuff and i and so i got her an ipad 0:28:57.039,0:29:00.399 and she started drawing there and then i 0:28:58.960,0:29:01.200 was like we should try to get you like a 0:29:00.399,0:29:04.159 freelance 0:29:01.200,0:29:04.960 gig so i got her this like ten dollar 0:29:04.159,0:29:07.840 gig 0:29:04.960,0:29:08.320 illustrating uh a picture of somebody's 0:29:07.840,0:29:11.279 dog 0:29:08.320,0:29:12.240 you know oh that's hard so she she 0:29:11.279,0:29:13.440 officially 0:29:12.240,0:29:14.880 i don't know if we've actually given her 0:29:13.440,0:29:18.000 the money yet i think it's still sitting 0:29:14.880,0:29:21.039 in my paypal account 0:29:18.000,0:29:24.799 to dad's bag dad's bank is safe but 0:29:21.039,0:29:26.559 i was i was excited about that you know 0:29:24.799,0:29:28.240 yeah that's uh my brother is similar 0:29:26.559,0:29:29.200 with his kids uh my brother is very 0:29:28.240,0:29:32.320 entrepreneurial 0:29:29.200,0:29:34.159 um he has four children and all of them 0:29:32.320,0:29:36.240 like he he's looking for every 0:29:34.159,0:29:37.919 opportunity to teach that and 0:29:36.240,0:29:39.679 and i could see that all four kids are 0:29:37.919,0:29:41.679 very different you know some 0:29:39.679,0:29:43.200 some are more entrepreneurial and others 0:29:41.679,0:29:45.600 are not um 0:29:43.200,0:29:47.520 so that's why the education for me is 0:29:45.600,0:29:50.399 always i'm curious that 0:29:47.520,0:29:50.960 we celebrate entrepreneurship but not 0:29:50.399,0:29:54.159 everybody 0:29:50.960,0:29:56.799 is yeah entrepreneur and then the flip 0:29:54.159,0:29:57.600 the the unfortunate thing the bc is that 0:29:56.799,0:29:59.919 a lot of people 0:29:57.600,0:30:00.960 start losing the kind of concept of like 0:29:59.919,0:30:02.320 self-worth or like 0:30:00.960,0:30:04.159 they haven't really figured out like 0:30:02.320,0:30:06.960 good place in life because they 0:30:04.159,0:30:08.080 are not entrepreneurs right uh and and 0:30:06.960,0:30:09.600 it's um 0:30:08.080,0:30:11.760 you know we need those people that are 0:30:09.600,0:30:12.960 not entrepreneurs right we need we need 0:30:11.760,0:30:15.120 people that are doing 0:30:12.960,0:30:17.120 like that are working for someone else 0:30:15.120,0:30:20.000 right right 0:30:17.120,0:30:21.600 you need the accountants and the all the 0:30:20.000,0:30:24.320 people that make 0:30:21.600,0:30:25.279 the infrastructure run and society runs 0:30:24.320,0:30:28.159 developers as well 0:30:25.279,0:30:28.159 that are not entrepreneurs 0:30:29.520,0:30:33.120 otherwise it will be very expensive to 0:30:31.120,0:30:35.440 afford developers 0:30:33.120,0:30:36.960 right what do you think what do you 0:30:35.440,0:30:38.799 think the how do you think how do you 0:30:36.960,0:30:41.600 see this playing out with 0:30:38.799,0:30:42.880 traditional education and also how how 0:30:41.600,0:30:44.640 do you compare the way things because 0:30:42.880,0:30:46.320 you've been in canada you've been in 0:30:44.640,0:30:47.760 a lot of different countries in europe 0:30:46.320,0:30:51.120 so how do you 0:30:47.760,0:30:53.279 sort of see the different models working 0:30:51.120,0:30:55.279 so i come from a country where there's a 0:30:53.279,0:30:57.039 lot of ex like so european education 0:30:55.279,0:30:59.919 tends to be a lot more 0:30:57.039,0:31:00.559 specialized um especially when i was 0:30:59.919,0:31:03.039 studying 0:31:00.559,0:31:04.080 uh it was hey if you are going like do 0:31:03.039,0:31:05.360 you go to law school 0:31:04.080,0:31:07.840 then you're becoming like you're 0:31:05.360,0:31:10.159 studying law all the time 0:31:07.840,0:31:10.960 if you're going uh if you want to become 0:31:10.159,0:31:13.519 an engineer 0:31:10.960,0:31:15.519 you just study that all the time the 0:31:13.519,0:31:19.120 same for developers and so on 0:31:15.519,0:31:21.519 and that's the it's more like the exact 0:31:19.120,0:31:23.600 science kind of exact like um like 0:31:21.519,0:31:27.360 concentrated education 0:31:23.600,0:31:30.559 um i went to a more liberal arts 0:31:27.360,0:31:34.000 university that 0:31:30.559,0:31:37.919 i had both history philosophy 0:31:34.000,0:31:38.960 theology economics i had a concentration 0:31:37.919,0:31:41.440 in business 0:31:38.960,0:31:42.000 but the premise of liberal arts is to 0:31:41.440,0:31:45.760 give you 0:31:42.000,0:31:46.799 a foundation a kind of broader view 0:31:45.760,0:31:48.640 foundation 0:31:46.799,0:31:51.039 and and hope that that is a good 0:31:48.640,0:31:55.120 foundation for you to grow further 0:31:51.039,0:31:58.960 and and i've seen pros and cons 0:31:55.120,0:32:00.960 and so i i i look at 0:31:58.960,0:32:03.039 would you be able to teach development 0:32:00.960,0:32:03.519 in university well you that person needs 0:32:03.039,0:32:06.399 to 0:32:03.519,0:32:08.000 want that like you you need to have a 0:32:06.399,0:32:11.279 passion for it 0:32:08.000,0:32:13.039 so so maybe that 0:32:11.279,0:32:15.120 and the university i remember somebody 0:32:13.039,0:32:17.039 said that you're not going to be 0:32:15.120,0:32:18.799 learning as much in the classroom as 0:32:17.039,0:32:21.039 much you'll do in the in the 0:32:18.799,0:32:22.080 in the dorm you know because that's 0:32:21.039,0:32:23.360 where the social 0:32:22.080,0:32:25.360 happens that's where you're actually 0:32:23.360,0:32:25.760 like studying and interacting and like 0:32:25.360,0:32:27.760 doing 0:32:25.760,0:32:29.919 doing life and that's when you learn a 0:32:27.760,0:32:30.480 lot and so i i find that you know like 0:32:29.919,0:32:32.000 that's not 0:32:30.480,0:32:34.159 partying necessarily you know what just 0:32:32.000,0:32:36.320 kind of hey so you just go to university 0:32:34.159,0:32:38.399 for a party no but i feel like there's 0:32:36.320,0:32:40.080 connections that you build in the 0:32:38.399,0:32:43.279 university 0:32:40.080,0:32:46.080 cost forward like like 0:32:43.279,0:32:48.000 10 20 years later you know those people 0:32:46.080,0:32:50.880 are gonna be 0:32:48.000,0:32:52.399 very influential in different areas so 0:32:50.880,0:32:53.360 you know you suddenly build a network 0:32:52.399,0:32:56.640 that's really good 0:32:53.360,0:33:00.320 right and 0:32:56.640,0:33:03.519 so sorry this is like 0:33:00.320,0:33:05.760 is there some music like you hear the 0:33:03.519,0:33:08.159 teapot 0:33:05.760,0:33:09.120 no but i'm but i'm hearing music sorry 0:33:08.159,0:33:13.679 like hi 0:33:09.120,0:33:13.679 hold on i'm gonna check one thing yeah 0:33:17.519,0:33:22.880 sorry i'm also realizing it was on uh i 0:33:21.120,0:33:25.279 was not on a 0:33:22.880,0:33:26.559 i wasn't a battery going so this might 0:33:25.279,0:33:30.559 increase everything now 0:33:26.559,0:33:32.080 um okay sorry 0:33:30.559,0:33:34.399 no worries i thought i clicked 0:33:32.080,0:33:37.200 everything uh anyway so going back to 0:33:34.399,0:33:37.200 that education 0:33:37.519,0:33:41.919 would be i did write an article it was 0:33:40.559,0:33:43.200 more like a facetious one like 0:33:41.919,0:33:46.320 artificially driven 0:33:43.200,0:33:49.840 uh montessori school okay 0:33:46.320,0:33:52.960 um because it's like uh is star trek 0:33:49.840,0:33:53.440 the the the vulcans uh when they like 0:33:52.960,0:33:55.600 when you 0:33:53.440,0:33:57.600 do when you look at some of those i 0:33:55.600,0:33:59.200 can't remember which movie was that but 0:33:57.600,0:34:01.039 they were showing just these pods 0:33:59.200,0:34:02.720 learning pods where the kids were 0:34:01.039,0:34:04.159 individually just kids and they're like 0:34:02.720,0:34:04.799 you have screens everywhere and it's 0:34:04.159,0:34:07.519 just 0:34:04.799,0:34:09.200 teaching you personalized i think that's 0:34:07.519,0:34:12.560 ultimately where we're gonna go 0:34:09.200,0:34:14.560 like futuristically is right now it's 0:34:12.560,0:34:16.639 really weird how all the system takes 0:34:14.560,0:34:18.960 the kids from grade 1 to grade 0:34:16.639,0:34:20.000 12 or like you know everybody learns the 0:34:18.960,0:34:23.359 same thing 0:34:20.000,0:34:24.000 and so we don't really we don't really 0:34:23.359,0:34:25.440 do 0:34:24.000,0:34:28.000 a good job in terms of understanding 0:34:25.440,0:34:29.839 their comprehension you rather fake it 0:34:28.000,0:34:32.839 that you understand or you just you 0:34:29.839,0:34:35.679 don't understand and you move on which 0:34:32.839,0:34:37.119 will prohibit you from like 0:34:35.679,0:34:38.480 understanding some of the concepts later 0:34:37.119,0:34:41.760 on so there's 0:34:38.480,0:34:43.280 uh and if you are if somebody 0:34:41.760,0:34:45.040 detects that you're not comprehending 0:34:43.280,0:34:48.000 it's almost punished you're like left 0:34:45.040,0:34:48.879 after school or like just you know for 0:34:48.000,0:34:52.320 another year 0:34:48.879,0:34:55.520 yeah so i think that's what's uh and 0:34:52.320,0:34:58.960 another friend of mine is working on um 0:34:55.520,0:34:58.960 in a company where they are 0:34:59.200,0:35:03.119 measuring a comprehension of a topic of 0:35:02.320,0:35:04.880 certain 0:35:03.119,0:35:06.160 in certain in certain kind of industry 0:35:04.880,0:35:07.839 and they're they're they're measuring 0:35:06.160,0:35:08.960 whether you are comprehending when 0:35:07.839,0:35:12.400 you're learning 0:35:08.960,0:35:14.079 interesting and and i and i think that's 0:35:12.400,0:35:16.640 that's the missing piece a lot is 0:35:14.079,0:35:18.480 because when we when we 0:35:16.640,0:35:20.400 when we enroll in something it's really 0:35:18.480,0:35:22.640 and even in a professional development 0:35:20.400,0:35:24.079 in professional education there's now 0:35:22.640,0:35:26.079 been an organizations where 0:35:24.079,0:35:27.920 somebody mentions ebitda and all these 0:35:26.079,0:35:29.280 other acronyms and some people like what 0:35:27.920,0:35:31.280 is that and other people 0:35:29.280,0:35:33.680 totally understand what that means and 0:35:31.280,0:35:36.000 they can explain so much more and 0:35:33.680,0:35:37.359 and uh and so how do you even bring that 0:35:36.000,0:35:38.800 corporate education and 0:35:37.359,0:35:40.800 how do you bring everybody's awareness 0:35:38.800,0:35:43.280 without kind of like calling somebody 0:35:40.800,0:35:44.640 out that they don't understand 0:35:43.280,0:35:47.200 and i think it's that personalized 0:35:44.640,0:35:50.320 education that can only be solved by 0:35:47.200,0:35:51.920 ai you know because it's it's 0:35:50.320,0:35:54.400 understanding their comprehension on 0:35:51.920,0:35:56.880 certain topics and then 0:35:54.400,0:35:57.440 redirecting them to the certain certain 0:35:56.880,0:36:00.560 route 0:35:57.440,0:36:02.240 to to give them the information in the 0:36:00.560,0:36:03.599 shape and form that they will understand 0:36:02.240,0:36:05.680 the best 0:36:03.599,0:36:07.200 and so that i think that's the kind of 0:36:05.680,0:36:09.599 ultimate future 0:36:07.200,0:36:11.280 both in in the form of like kind of 0:36:09.599,0:36:14.160 formal education but also for 0:36:11.280,0:36:15.920 for development i would even say like 0:36:14.160,0:36:16.720 yeah that that's that's kind of like 0:36:15.920,0:36:17.760 what's in my mind 0:36:16.720,0:36:19.760 that's really interesting i've been 0:36:17.760,0:36:24.000 thinking so much lately about 0:36:19.760,0:36:27.040 finding the thing or things that you 0:36:24.000,0:36:28.960 love to do and are passionate about 0:36:27.040,0:36:30.880 like finding that thing and i've been 0:36:28.960,0:36:32.400 thinking about it for myself and also i 0:36:30.880,0:36:35.599 think about it for my kids 0:36:32.400,0:36:36.720 and for people in general like i feel 0:36:35.599,0:36:40.160 like the people that 0:36:36.720,0:36:41.599 really find that thing that you know 0:36:40.160,0:36:42.720 like in japanese there's this term 0:36:41.599,0:36:44.880 ikigai 0:36:42.720,0:36:46.000 which is the kind of the intersection of 0:36:44.880,0:36:48.880 what you're good at 0:36:46.000,0:36:50.960 what's valuable to society what you like 0:36:48.880,0:36:53.200 to do and something else 0:36:50.960,0:36:54.240 and um i've just been thinking a lot 0:36:53.200,0:36:58.640 about that and 0:36:54.240,0:37:01.760 sort of trying to find that for myself 0:36:58.640,0:37:04.560 and i think that like i don't know it's 0:37:01.760,0:37:06.640 it's magical if you find that thing 0:37:04.560,0:37:08.000 um that because you know the difference 0:37:06.640,0:37:09.839 between when you're working on something 0:37:08.000,0:37:11.280 because you have to work on it versus 0:37:09.839,0:37:13.440 you're doing something you're just 0:37:11.280,0:37:15.280 driven like you're just 0:37:13.440,0:37:16.480 excited about it and it's almost 0:37:15.280,0:37:19.119 effortless in a way 0:37:16.480,0:37:22.640 you know yeah but what do you do when 0:37:19.119,0:37:26.560 you when you can't find that 0:37:22.640,0:37:28.480 exactly right but i think that's the 0:37:26.560,0:37:30.800 challenge in society there's no 0:37:28.480,0:37:33.119 shortage of people that like we can 0:37:30.800,0:37:33.839 follow as influencers who live the life 0:37:33.119,0:37:36.240 that you're like 0:37:33.839,0:37:37.760 well i'd like that too yeah um you know 0:37:36.240,0:37:38.880 and they have clearly found something 0:37:37.760,0:37:40.640 that they love and 0:37:38.880,0:37:42.079 and and that those are the stories that 0:37:40.640,0:37:44.560 we hear 0:37:42.079,0:37:45.119 i and i totally am on the same like you 0:37:44.560,0:37:48.960 know 0:37:45.119,0:37:51.280 find what you like but sometimes 0:37:48.960,0:37:53.119 just sometimes i'd like to maybe look at 0:37:51.280,0:37:54.400 the opposite i'd be like you know screw 0:37:53.119,0:37:56.480 your passion 0:37:54.400,0:37:57.680 um pursue what earns your money and then 0:37:56.480,0:37:59.920 you can afford a passion 0:37:57.680,0:38:01.680 right i know a lot of like high school 0:37:59.920,0:38:03.280 like i know a lot of teachers 0:38:01.680,0:38:05.599 like school teachers like friends of 0:38:03.280,0:38:06.960 mine who are arguably doing what they're 0:38:05.599,0:38:09.119 passionate about but 0:38:06.960,0:38:10.640 right they can't afford to travel they 0:38:09.119,0:38:13.040 can't afford to do many things 0:38:10.640,0:38:14.400 right and and so i mean i'm not like 0:38:13.040,0:38:17.920 this is this is never really 0:38:14.400,0:38:20.960 like a simple way but i would say that 0:38:17.920,0:38:23.599 part of that education 0:38:20.960,0:38:24.880 uh and part of what we are missing is 0:38:23.599,0:38:26.480 for us to be able 0:38:24.880,0:38:27.920 like there's so many different paths 0:38:26.480,0:38:29.760 that where we could be 0:38:27.920,0:38:32.400 satisfied with what we do but 0:38:29.760,0:38:34.880 unfortunately we are still kind of very 0:38:32.400,0:38:35.760 like we only understand several paths 0:38:34.880,0:38:38.079 like 0:38:35.760,0:38:40.560 do you want to be a developer right well 0:38:38.079,0:38:43.520 i mean developers come in 0:38:40.560,0:38:45.119 so many different like variations yeah 0:38:43.520,0:38:48.320 what you could be developing 0:38:45.119,0:38:48.960 yeah and and so when someone just looks 0:38:48.320,0:38:51.119 at like hey 0:38:48.960,0:38:52.160 do you want to be a developer that's 0:38:51.119,0:38:53.599 that's one like 0:38:52.160,0:38:54.960 that we're kind of treating the world 0:38:53.599,0:38:56.079 only like oh that's the only option 0:38:54.960,0:38:57.520 there is you know but there's 0:38:56.079,0:38:59.359 so many different other things and how 0:38:57.520,0:39:01.040 do you find out about them so that's 0:38:59.359,0:39:04.640 what's really missing is that 0:39:01.040,0:39:07.280 personalized personalized code like that 0:39:04.640,0:39:07.920 montessori experience where you know you 0:39:07.280,0:39:10.640 are 0:39:07.920,0:39:12.079 it's very unique very personalized you 0:39:10.640,0:39:13.359 know like direct to you like helps you 0:39:12.079,0:39:14.720 to figure out what you're passionate 0:39:13.359,0:39:17.040 about and 0:39:14.720,0:39:18.800 shapes you up in that yeah i think 0:39:17.040,0:39:20.160 that's uh i'm that's where my hope is 0:39:18.800,0:39:22.400 for the education 0:39:20.160,0:39:23.760 and my hope is that the official 0:39:22.400,0:39:26.480 education institutions 0:39:23.760,0:39:27.119 will will facilitate that a lot more 0:39:26.480,0:39:28.640 yeah 0:39:27.119,0:39:30.800 um i mean they don't have any other 0:39:28.640,0:39:32.800 choice i think it's one of those 0:39:30.800,0:39:34.320 people are going for more alternative 0:39:32.800,0:39:36.000 education than 0:39:34.320,0:39:37.920 than official and there's a place for 0:39:36.000,0:39:40.720 that yeah what do you what do you think 0:39:37.920,0:39:43.920 are some of the gaps when it comes to 0:39:40.720,0:39:45.200 within e-commerce groups uh digital 0:39:43.920,0:39:48.400 agencies 0:39:45.200,0:39:51.599 merchants when it comes to training 0:39:48.400,0:39:53.119 or education um what are some of the 0:39:51.599,0:39:57.359 gaps that you see 0:39:53.119,0:40:00.400 that could be filled there 0:39:57.359,0:40:02.720 oh well i've been in both i've been 0:40:00.400,0:40:04.720 i've been a lot of like most of my adult 0:40:02.720,0:40:05.440 like i've spent on agency world but then 0:40:04.720,0:40:08.640 i was also 0:40:05.440,0:40:10.319 heading ecom in the biotech b2b 0:40:08.640,0:40:12.480 totally different world totally 0:40:10.319,0:40:14.400 different world and i would say that 0:40:12.480,0:40:17.040 well one thing that stood out to me from 0:40:14.400,0:40:20.079 that experience was that 0:40:17.040,0:40:24.480 as consultants as agencies we are not 0:40:20.079,0:40:28.720 paid enough to be able to do a good job 0:40:24.480,0:40:31.440 um statement 0:40:28.720,0:40:32.640 well when you think about 0:40:31.440,0:40:34.480 recommendations 0:40:32.640,0:40:35.760 like as consultants you're like hey dude 0:40:34.480,0:40:38.560 this do this do that 0:40:35.760,0:40:39.760 we don't have the like obligation to see 0:40:38.560,0:40:41.839 through 0:40:39.760,0:40:43.520 there's no client like like if if it 0:40:41.839,0:40:44.960 doesn't work it's easy to point out like 0:40:43.520,0:40:45.520 why didn't work for them because they 0:40:44.960,0:40:47.359 didn't do it 0:40:45.520,0:40:49.359 the way that you told them or some other 0:40:47.359,0:40:53.839 reasons came up right 0:40:49.359,0:40:56.319 and so your recommendations are only 0:40:53.839,0:40:57.280 part of this part of the problem that 0:40:56.319,0:40:59.119 they're lacking that 0:40:57.280,0:41:01.280 like they don't know what to do they 0:40:59.119,0:41:04.640 only they also need to know 0:41:01.280,0:41:06.400 how to do it and in order 0:41:04.640,0:41:08.079 and that how is not always that 0:41:06.400,0:41:11.119 technical thing 0:41:08.079,0:41:14.560 that that that knowledge also lies in 0:41:11.119,0:41:15.839 politics and and like in looking like 0:41:14.560,0:41:17.760 who do you need to talk to in that 0:41:15.839,0:41:20.079 organization in order to get a buy-in 0:41:17.760,0:41:20.960 you know from from another bigger group 0:41:20.079,0:41:23.920 you know who 0:41:20.960,0:41:24.240 who is like those things don't happen in 0:41:23.920,0:41:27.280 in 0:41:24.240,0:41:29.839 official meetings and i've seen 0:41:27.280,0:41:30.560 agencies like sapiens and other big ones 0:41:29.839,0:41:32.319 where 0:41:30.560,0:41:34.000 they do have a placement a permanent 0:41:32.319,0:41:35.440 placement somebody from 0:41:34.000,0:41:37.359 sapien works centuries you know they 0:41:35.440,0:41:40.079 have someone who is always there in a 0:41:37.359,0:41:40.079 client's site 0:41:40.160,0:41:43.839 and they hear then they understand how 0:41:42.160,0:41:45.760 the organization works better so it's 0:41:43.839,0:41:48.240 not only that recommendation 0:41:45.760,0:41:49.520 it's also like it's also strengthened 0:41:48.240,0:41:51.280 with context 0:41:49.520,0:41:53.440 that they know that that could work 0:41:51.280,0:41:54.000 within that budget within that specific 0:41:53.440,0:41:55.599 method 0:41:54.000,0:41:58.880 yeah and so that's that's maybe that 0:41:55.599,0:42:01.119 i've noticed quite a lot is that 0:41:58.880,0:42:02.079 uh when i was on a client side and 0:42:01.119,0:42:03.599 agencies who are coming 0:42:02.079,0:42:05.119 and recommending different things like i 0:42:03.599,0:42:07.040 know what to do like i know what to do 0:42:05.119,0:42:08.960 for next two three years 0:42:07.040,0:42:11.119 uh that's not a problem i need to figure 0:42:08.960,0:42:12.880 out like how to get it done 0:42:11.119,0:42:14.240 you know with budget restrictions with 0:42:12.880,0:42:15.359 all the different other things that are 0:42:14.240,0:42:16.960 happening 0:42:15.359,0:42:18.560 different priorities of the company they 0:42:16.960,0:42:21.680 don't see them so 0:42:18.560,0:42:23.920 that's uh that's maybe what i've noticed 0:42:21.680,0:42:27.440 a kind of a big 0:42:23.920,0:42:28.800 big gap in e-commerce i see a lot of 0:42:27.440,0:42:31.760 agencies as well 0:42:28.800,0:42:35.359 predominantly limit themselves to 0:42:31.760,0:42:38.079 whether integrations or whether design 0:42:35.359,0:42:40.000 um but i don't see a lot of agencies 0:42:38.079,0:42:41.839 offering like kind of the big five or 0:42:40.000,0:42:43.200 the kind of accenture boston consulting 0:42:41.839,0:42:44.400 group kind of thinking like business 0:42:43.200,0:42:47.680 thinking 0:42:44.400,0:42:50.800 like a lot of companies will do 0:42:47.680,0:42:52.319 hey we want to do free shipping campaign 0:42:50.800,0:42:54.079 and that's almost becomes like a 0:42:52.319,0:42:56.400 marketing campaign 0:42:54.079,0:42:57.359 but no very very few in my experience 0:42:56.400,0:42:59.200 have actually done 0:42:57.359,0:43:00.800 the enough calculations to make sure 0:42:59.200,0:43:02.560 that the free shipping campaign earns 0:43:00.800,0:43:04.160 their money 0:43:02.560,0:43:05.760 it's not supposed to be marketing 0:43:04.160,0:43:07.119 campaign i mean it could be used as a 0:43:05.760,0:43:09.680 marketing campaign but you still need to 0:43:07.119,0:43:12.560 make money 0:43:09.680,0:43:14.400 you know and so like who like there's 0:43:12.560,0:43:17.440 that number analysis crunching 0:43:14.400,0:43:18.800 or the loyalty or word systems you know 0:43:17.440,0:43:21.359 where 0:43:18.800,0:43:23.040 um quite often everybody's like hey you 0:43:21.359,0:43:24.319 know we our competitors have that like 0:43:23.040,0:43:27.760 also let's give them like 0:43:24.319,0:43:29.599 let's offer some points and um 0:43:27.760,0:43:31.440 and what happens interesting with these 0:43:29.599,0:43:32.640 systems is that late after a few years 0:43:31.440,0:43:34.480 you realize that you're a lot more 0:43:32.640,0:43:37.440 liberal with the points 0:43:34.480,0:43:39.119 you have to now scale down and and 0:43:37.440,0:43:40.960 nobody likes that you know because you 0:43:39.119,0:43:42.240 realize that after many years you start 0:43:40.960,0:43:43.920 crunching the numbers like is this 0:43:42.240,0:43:44.640 really like is this really good for us 0:43:43.920,0:43:46.720 and 0:43:44.640,0:43:48.400 um priorities change and so there's not 0:43:46.720,0:43:51.599 enough 0:43:48.400,0:43:53.440 business consulting like kind of a 0:43:51.599,0:43:55.839 like business analysis the business 0:43:53.440,0:43:59.200 analysis and technical side but it's a 0:43:55.839,0:44:00.880 kind of um accounting like uh like a 0:43:59.200,0:44:04.000 number crunching to think 0:44:00.880,0:44:06.000 okay let's if we offer free shipping for 0:44:04.000,0:44:06.560 this segment or over like we want to 0:44:06.000,0:44:09.839 increase 0:44:06.560,0:44:10.400 like over 80 dollars what do we do with 0:44:09.839,0:44:12.000 those 0:44:10.400,0:44:13.920 like with the 20 percent of audience 0:44:12.000,0:44:16.000 that was already spending 150 0:44:13.920,0:44:17.839 and more now they're now they're now 0:44:16.000,0:44:19.280 they're getting out of my automatic free 0:44:17.839,0:44:21.440 shipping you're not like 0:44:19.280,0:44:23.359 benefiting anything from them yeah so 0:44:21.440,0:44:25.920 you have to keep that in mind 0:44:23.359,0:44:27.440 uh and uh and that's it hasn't happened 0:44:25.920,0:44:29.119 enough like i haven't seen it enough 0:44:27.440,0:44:31.599 it's whether agencies are where they're 0:44:29.119,0:44:35.040 making the making the stores look pretty 0:44:31.599,0:44:36.560 or are making them functional but 0:44:35.040,0:44:38.079 they they don't go back into that kind 0:44:36.560,0:44:40.640 of business yeah 0:44:38.079,0:44:42.480 i listened to this uh pod freakonomics 0:44:40.640,0:44:44.160 podcast over the weekend 0:44:42.480,0:44:45.920 where they're basically talking about if 0:44:44.160,0:44:49.839 advertising works 0:44:45.920,0:44:51.040 like just period does advertising work 0:44:49.839,0:44:52.880 and 0:44:51.040,0:44:54.400 it's fascinating they have you know one 0:44:52.880,0:44:56.000 a representative from the head of some 0:44:54.400,0:44:56.800 big marketing association and then 0:44:56.000,0:44:59.119 there's 0:44:56.800,0:45:01.040 the researchers that are doing the study 0:44:59.119,0:45:01.680 and of course everybody has their biases 0:45:01.040,0:45:04.240 on it 0:45:01.680,0:45:06.480 and they say well coca-cola and all 0:45:04.240,0:45:08.240 these big companies that 0:45:06.480,0:45:10.880 have always advertised of course it 0:45:08.240,0:45:12.560 works but they dig into the numbers and 0:45:10.880,0:45:15.599 according to this study they find that 0:45:12.560,0:45:17.359 some relatively small advertising 0:45:15.599,0:45:18.000 elasticity number like if you double 0:45:17.359,0:45:19.839 your marketing 0:45:18.000,0:45:21.839 budget you'll get a one percent increase 0:45:19.839,0:45:23.839 in revenue some some 0:45:21.839,0:45:25.200 surprising result that they found but 0:45:23.839,0:45:27.040 it's funny how 0:45:25.200,0:45:28.720 there can be things that seem so 0:45:27.040,0:45:29.920 obviously true 0:45:28.720,0:45:32.319 like what you're saying well free 0:45:29.920,0:45:34.880 shipping obviously is going to work or 0:45:32.319,0:45:36.640 rewards systems or advertising these 0:45:34.880,0:45:38.240 things obviously work 0:45:36.640,0:45:39.680 but then if you take a minute and take 0:45:38.240,0:45:40.240 it take a step back and go well okay 0:45:39.680,0:45:42.400 let's 0:45:40.240,0:45:43.599 let's actually does anybody ever 0:45:42.400,0:45:44.640 actually go let's actually look at the 0:45:43.599,0:45:47.839 numbers 0:45:44.640,0:45:48.400 and see how well this actually works so 0:45:47.839,0:45:50.960 few 0:45:48.400,0:45:53.280 yeah so so few because even when you 0:45:50.960,0:45:55.839 take a look at advertising paid media 0:45:53.280,0:45:57.119 you only look at that first purchase 0:45:55.839,0:45:59.599 mostly most people 0:45:57.119,0:46:01.920 like it's like how many moves in chess 0:45:59.599,0:46:05.359 can you think 0:46:01.920,0:46:06.880 ahead and the first move is okay this is 0:46:05.359,0:46:08.079 how much we paid in advertising this is 0:46:06.880,0:46:11.200 how much we earned 0:46:08.079,0:46:12.800 was it worth it okay but another move 0:46:11.200,0:46:13.680 like few moves later it's like customer 0:46:12.800,0:46:16.079 lifetime value 0:46:13.680,0:46:17.040 yeah um you know i was like okay well 0:46:16.079,0:46:18.640 you know we spent 0:46:17.040,0:46:20.160 twenty dollars to get maybe thirty 0:46:18.640,0:46:21.440 dollar purchase 0:46:20.160,0:46:24.000 not the best but that's the first 0:46:21.440,0:46:25.920 purchase if you get five purchases from 0:46:24.000,0:46:28.960 that person within the next two years 0:46:25.920,0:46:30.800 great um you know but but everybody 0:46:28.960,0:46:34.000 stops at that kind of first 0:46:30.800,0:46:35.760 and so that's that's it's a 0:46:34.000,0:46:37.680 we have different opinions and what was 0:46:35.760,0:46:40.319 that uh 0:46:37.680,0:46:41.680 avinash from google analytics said that 0:46:40.319,0:46:43.040 analytics is the best way to shut off 0:46:41.680,0:46:46.319 stupid opinions 0:46:43.040,0:46:48.079 um right it helps 0:46:46.319,0:46:49.440 but you still deal with people right and 0:46:48.079,0:46:50.960 so no matter what 0:46:49.440,0:46:52.960 you know maybe that it's the right thing 0:46:50.960,0:46:54.160 to do or not you still deal with people 0:46:52.960,0:46:55.599 and they have opinions and they have 0:46:54.160,0:46:57.200 biases and so 0:46:55.599,0:46:59.440 i think another going back to that 0:46:57.200,0:47:02.800 original question what's the gap is that 0:46:59.440,0:47:04.640 is that buying management and i i've had 0:47:02.800,0:47:07.280 struggle with that myself and i had 0:47:04.640,0:47:09.200 had to learn a lot as well is that you 0:47:07.280,0:47:11.440 know what needs to be done 0:47:09.200,0:47:13.359 you you see that there's no other option 0:47:11.440,0:47:15.599 to do that that there's only that one 0:47:13.359,0:47:19.200 option but you still have to 0:47:15.599,0:47:21.200 walk everybody along uh your your 0:47:19.200,0:47:23.200 your thoughts you know nobody spends so 0:47:21.200,0:47:24.480 much time on the e-commerce or thinking 0:47:23.200,0:47:26.000 about what you think 0:47:24.480,0:47:27.760 and so now we have to convey that and 0:47:26.000,0:47:30.400 get somebody's else buy-in yeah 0:47:27.760,0:47:31.200 and and agencies quite often again like 0:47:30.400,0:47:34.559 i do 0:47:31.200,0:47:36.839 i do consulting i work for agencies but 0:47:34.559,0:47:38.000 we quite often need to produce quick 0:47:36.839,0:47:41.520 results 0:47:38.000,0:47:44.000 uh quick recommendations and 0:47:41.520,0:47:45.599 and then that's where it stops because 0:47:44.000,0:47:46.079 then we're not doing the implementation 0:47:45.599,0:47:49.359 so i 0:47:46.079,0:47:51.119 i i do like some agencies that are now 0:47:49.359,0:47:53.520 like some of the compensation is based 0:47:51.119,0:47:55.680 on performance 0:47:53.520,0:47:57.440 it's easier for some than others you 0:47:55.680,0:47:59.280 know in paid media 0:47:57.440,0:48:01.200 i've seen some i've seen actually one 0:47:59.280,0:48:04.319 e-commerce agency 0:48:01.200,0:48:05.359 they have done revenue share they've 0:48:04.319,0:48:08.160 built 0:48:05.359,0:48:08.640 uh they you need to have quite a few 0:48:08.160,0:48:11.680 years 0:48:08.640,0:48:14.640 of existing existing performance to see 0:48:11.680,0:48:16.160 like how like what's the growth and this 0:48:14.640,0:48:19.359 year has screwed up everything 0:48:16.160,0:48:20.079 right uh in terms of like benchmarking 0:48:19.359,0:48:23.280 of any 0:48:20.079,0:48:24.720 any sort but the the the theory was or 0:48:23.280,0:48:25.760 the practice for them was really good 0:48:24.720,0:48:28.000 was that they 0:48:25.760,0:48:29.520 established a good benchmark they said 0:48:28.000,0:48:30.800 okay we're going to rebuild everything 0:48:29.520,0:48:34.000 for you 0:48:30.800,0:48:35.599 um and the idea is that 0:48:34.000,0:48:37.280 you don't like they don't have to pay 0:48:35.599,0:48:40.960 100 200 whatever 0:48:37.280,0:48:42.319 thousand dollars those are right now but 0:48:40.960,0:48:46.000 they would be able to pay 0:48:42.319,0:48:48.319 based on revenue increase right and so 0:48:46.000,0:48:49.440 if you're doing your job well like you 0:48:48.319,0:48:51.280 would you would see 0:48:49.440,0:48:52.960 growth and you would want to be paid 0:48:51.280,0:48:55.839 within two three years 0:48:52.960,0:48:57.760 um and maybe that maybe that was enough 0:48:55.839,0:48:58.240 to do the work only for that first half 0:48:57.760,0:48:59.680 a year 0:48:58.240,0:49:01.599 and you don't need to do the next three 0:48:59.680,0:49:02.400 years like you know depends how how long 0:49:01.599,0:49:05.440 is your contract 0:49:02.400,0:49:06.800 so there's like hey all the benefit um 0:49:05.440,0:49:08.640 but that's another interesting model 0:49:06.800,0:49:12.000 where you are 0:49:08.640,0:49:15.440 where you are responsible for 0:49:12.000,0:49:18.559 for your recommendations that's uh yeah 0:49:15.440,0:49:20.640 that's it's i've always sort of thought 0:49:18.559,0:49:22.319 that things should go that direction i 0:49:20.640,0:49:25.440 mean if you 0:49:22.319,0:49:29.520 are a specialist in doing x y and z 0:49:25.440,0:49:30.400 to produce results um it seems like the 0:49:29.520,0:49:32.079 inevitable 0:49:30.400,0:49:33.920 inevitably you you know you'd want to 0:49:32.079,0:49:36.559 get a piece of that and that you'd be 0:49:33.920,0:49:38.079 the most incentivized to do it that way 0:49:36.559,0:49:39.520 um 0:49:38.079,0:49:41.359 but how do you track the small 0:49:39.520,0:49:43.440 recommendations like you know that that 0:49:41.359,0:49:45.520 one half an hour call that you give 0:49:43.440,0:49:46.640 client and it saved them two until two 0:49:45.520,0:49:50.480 million dollars 0:49:46.640,0:49:50.480 in in span of next two years 0:49:51.599,0:49:55.040 and that's maybe the blockchain that's 0:49:53.359,0:49:56.319 like i because i worked with scientists 0:49:55.040,0:49:58.000 they also have similar 0:49:56.319,0:50:00.079 problems right like you take a look at 0:49:58.000,0:50:01.359 nobel prize and all these other prizes 0:50:00.079,0:50:02.720 are given it's given to some of the 0:50:01.359,0:50:05.520 leads only 0:50:02.720,0:50:06.079 um they're not the only ones who did the 0:50:05.520,0:50:08.240 job 0:50:06.079,0:50:09.920 right there's like so much surrounded 0:50:08.240,0:50:12.640 and especially now in science and i 0:50:09.920,0:50:15.200 think that's the great thing about 0:50:12.640,0:50:17.440 this pandemic is that people are we are 0:50:15.200,0:50:18.160 collectively better educated of like 0:50:17.440,0:50:20.880 what is 0:50:18.160,0:50:21.440 how does the drug development happen you 0:50:20.880,0:50:23.040 know like 0:50:21.440,0:50:25.119 i think society needs to be even more 0:50:23.040,0:50:26.319 educated about that but 0:50:25.119,0:50:28.640 that's a different conversation 0:50:26.319,0:50:30.880 altogether 0:50:28.640,0:50:32.400 but with science that's also the problem 0:50:30.880,0:50:34.000 is attribution 0:50:32.400,0:50:36.400 you know there might be someone who has 0:50:34.000,0:50:37.920 an idea or who's like hey you know what 0:50:36.400,0:50:40.240 you have you thought of that and that 0:50:37.920,0:50:42.400 idea actually makes a really good change 0:50:40.240,0:50:43.599 but they but it's maybe like you know 0:50:42.400,0:50:46.800 it's a domino effect 0:50:43.599,0:50:49.359 yeah so how do you when there's a big 0:50:46.800,0:50:50.400 like awards or big money benefit how do 0:50:49.359,0:50:52.400 you 0:50:50.400,0:50:53.920 compensate maybe somebody who is like 0:50:52.400,0:50:56.640 down the road 0:50:53.920,0:50:57.520 and one one conversation is about the 0:50:56.640,0:51:00.559 blockchain 0:50:57.520,0:51:03.760 is maybe but maybe some type of a 0:51:00.559,0:51:05.440 blockchain uh mechanism is used for 0:51:03.760,0:51:07.200 consulting 0:51:05.440,0:51:08.640 where there's you know like you you have 0:51:07.200,0:51:10.000 identified it's like hey you know like 0:51:08.640,0:51:11.520 about free shipping and there's this 0:51:10.000,0:51:13.920 like specific thing and 0:51:11.520,0:51:15.119 and somehow it is being recorded in some 0:51:13.920,0:51:17.599 some type of like 0:51:15.119,0:51:19.359 crazy system and at the end of the day 0:51:17.599,0:51:22.559 you're able to extract 0:51:19.359,0:51:23.760 uh okay how much benefit was like drawn 0:51:22.559,0:51:25.119 out of that small like one 0:51:23.760,0:51:27.119 recommendation 0:51:25.119,0:51:28.720 that's interesting maybe i'm talking 0:51:27.119,0:51:29.119 about like you know like 10 years too 0:51:28.720,0:51:32.079 far 0:51:29.119,0:51:33.599 but it seems like blockchain in general 0:51:32.079,0:51:36.319 is kind of it's kind of 0:51:33.599,0:51:38.079 10 you know we can start to wrap our 0:51:36.319,0:51:41.040 heads around and start to see some 0:51:38.079,0:51:42.720 uh implementations of it but it's kind 0:51:41.040,0:51:44.319 of like the whole thing is almost like 0:51:42.720,0:51:46.160 10 years out before 0:51:44.319,0:51:47.599 we're gonna really you know have an 0:51:46.160,0:51:50.000 understanding of it 0:51:47.599,0:51:51.760 um it's like such early it's gonna be 0:51:50.000,0:51:53.680 like 0:51:51.760,0:51:55.359 i think that the companies are doing 0:51:53.680,0:51:56.160 great stuff it's just we're not finding 0:51:55.359,0:51:58.640 out about it 0:51:56.160,0:52:00.079 yeah um i think there's a lot of stuff 0:51:58.640,0:52:01.839 that is is great and 0:52:00.079,0:52:04.319 there's like one side is like i just 0:52:01.839,0:52:06.880 don't understand how it all works 0:52:04.319,0:52:08.319 but also there's so many companies that 0:52:06.880,0:52:11.280 are doing stuff that never 0:52:08.319,0:52:13.280 nobody they don't talk about that much 0:52:11.280,0:52:14.480 yeah and solving problems and so after a 0:52:13.280,0:52:15.680 few years 0:52:14.480,0:52:17.760 you're like oh you know you should do 0:52:15.680,0:52:21.280 that it's like yeah it's been done yeah 0:52:17.760,0:52:22.960 already it's working yeah 0:52:21.280,0:52:24.800 yeah there's uh for a yeah you said 0:52:22.960,0:52:27.119 you're listening to ai like what's what 0:52:24.800,0:52:30.800 stands out to you about ai 0:52:27.119,0:52:32.400 oh man uh this um yeah that podcast lex 0:52:30.800,0:52:35.119 friedman podcast he talks 0:52:32.400,0:52:38.000 a good bit about ai i think he works on 0:52:35.119,0:52:39.280 some vision based machine learning stuff 0:52:38.000,0:52:41.040 he's talked a little bit about some of 0:52:39.280,0:52:44.079 the stuff happening with 0:52:41.040,0:52:45.520 tesla with autopilot 0:52:44.079,0:52:47.200 and actually a lot of his recent 0:52:45.520,0:52:47.680 interviews have broadened out and not 0:52:47.200,0:52:50.720 been 0:52:47.680,0:52:52.960 too ai specific um 0:52:50.720,0:52:54.160 but so i i'm struggling to think of 0:52:52.960,0:52:55.920 anything real 0:52:54.160,0:52:57.760 interesting that i've learned recently 0:52:55.920,0:53:00.640 related to ai 0:52:57.760,0:53:01.920 um but it's something that um yeah i'm 0:53:00.640,0:53:03.520 always kind of thinking about 0:53:01.920,0:53:05.520 and you know looking for interesting 0:53:03.520,0:53:07.520 nuggets um 0:53:05.520,0:53:09.119 i think right now some like my friend is 0:53:07.520,0:53:11.760 doing masters and 0:53:09.119,0:53:14.240 um but what's his interest is like uh 0:53:11.760,0:53:16.240 technology ethics and 0:53:14.240,0:53:18.240 and so there's uh like it surrounds a 0:53:16.240,0:53:21.920 lot of ai conversations 0:53:18.240,0:53:23.760 and that's where like and 0:53:21.920,0:53:25.359 we have the movie that came out what was 0:53:23.760,0:53:27.280 it social dilemma 0:53:25.359,0:53:28.960 we have you know many different books 0:53:27.280,0:53:30.160 are coming out like people are finally 0:53:28.960,0:53:33.440 waking up 0:53:30.160,0:53:36.160 and trying to think about like is this 0:53:33.440,0:53:37.920 like where is where is somebody like not 0:53:36.160,0:53:39.839 monitoring in terms of this big brother 0:53:37.920,0:53:42.640 but where is somebody 0:53:39.839,0:53:43.280 evaluating what's good what's not good 0:53:42.640,0:53:47.040 uh and that's 0:53:43.280,0:53:49.280 that's an interesting topic there um 0:53:47.040,0:53:50.319 i don't think we're gonna see more yeah 0:53:49.280,0:53:54.559 i i really 0:53:50.319,0:53:57.839 so neurolink is very interesting 0:53:54.559,0:53:59.520 and a little bit terrifying 0:53:57.839,0:54:01.520 um you know the project that you like 0:53:59.520,0:54:03.599 what is this so that so this is the chip 0:54:01.520,0:54:04.640 oh yeah yeah yeah yeah right they're 0:54:03.599,0:54:06.800 gonna implant 0:54:04.640,0:54:09.040 in your brain to have a high bandwidth 0:54:06.800,0:54:12.079 communication channel to 0:54:09.040,0:54:15.119 um you know devices essentially 0:54:12.079,0:54:18.160 and they're testing it in pigs and 0:54:15.119,0:54:19.839 i think uh you know they're 0:54:18.160,0:54:22.240 i think their tagline is if you can't 0:54:19.839,0:54:24.319 beat them join them 0:54:22.240,0:54:26.079 yeah i understand that angle and maybe 0:54:24.319,0:54:27.680 my brain is just like 0:54:26.079,0:54:29.119 subconsciously ignoring all the news 0:54:27.680,0:54:30.960 about it yeah like i 0:54:29.119,0:54:32.800 i have not really looked into that 0:54:30.960,0:54:36.000 question other than just like 0:54:32.800,0:54:38.480 they did it on a pagan yeah it's um 0:54:36.000,0:54:39.359 i mean yeah it's scary to think about 0:54:38.480,0:54:41.680 that future 0:54:39.359,0:54:44.240 but i mean i do think we're going there 0:54:41.680,0:54:48.319 i mean have you seen gpt-3 0:54:44.240,0:54:50.640 uh gpt-3 yeah yeah there's a guy 0:54:48.319,0:54:53.200 i love it yeah there's a guy building a 0:54:50.640,0:54:55.040 um a system called copy.ai which 0:54:53.200,0:54:57.599 generates sales copy 0:54:55.040,0:54:58.960 using gbt3 who i'm going to get on the 0:54:57.599,0:55:02.160 podcast soon 0:54:58.960,0:55:05.760 and yeah and it seems to be working 0:55:02.160,0:55:06.000 um so that's uh i mean that kind of just 0:55:05.760,0:55:08.640 came 0:55:06.000,0:55:09.599 out of nowhere and all of a sudden it 0:55:08.640,0:55:12.400 was like this 0:55:09.599,0:55:14.559 step change in the quality of text 0:55:12.400,0:55:16.400 content that was being generated 0:55:14.559,0:55:18.480 and you're like scratching your head 0:55:16.400,0:55:22.000 going i i didn't know this was possible 0:55:18.480,0:55:24.559 you know yeah no i have used it one 0:55:22.000,0:55:26.160 uh some similar service it created 0:55:24.559,0:55:28.559 copies for 0:55:26.160,0:55:29.680 for facebook or for google ads and or 0:55:28.559,0:55:31.200 tagline and i was 0:55:29.680,0:55:34.799 just trying to see like what it can do 0:55:31.200,0:55:36.640 and you know what it did really good job 0:55:34.799,0:55:37.920 like i mean there's some there's a lot 0:55:36.640,0:55:39.359 of things that are like oh yeah this is 0:55:37.920,0:55:39.839 this is not going to work you know but 0:55:39.359,0:55:41.920 um 0:55:39.839,0:55:42.960 but you can never see how fast it's 0:55:41.920,0:55:45.839 going and 0:55:42.960,0:55:47.440 you can kind of yeah yeah that that's 0:55:45.839,0:55:48.000 the fascinating part and i feel like 0:55:47.440,0:55:51.920 that is 0:55:48.000,0:55:55.040 so well for advertising 0:55:51.920,0:55:56.960 like thinking about how much time is 0:55:55.040,0:55:58.079 being spent trying to craft that perfect 0:55:56.960,0:56:01.359 copy 0:55:58.079,0:56:05.040 and optimizing it oh 0:56:01.359,0:56:07.040 i could see how that would be such a 0:56:05.040,0:56:08.960 such a godsend you know like in time 0:56:07.040,0:56:12.880 saving yeah you know you you just 0:56:08.960,0:56:15.440 you do so much more automation and 0:56:12.880,0:56:16.000 even i'm i'm i'm wondering sometimes 0:56:15.440,0:56:19.920 like i would love 0:56:16.000,0:56:22.400 to see newsletters i have a 0:56:19.920,0:56:23.760 agency that i worked with modern craft 0:56:22.400,0:56:25.599 and they're more like strategy 0:56:23.760,0:56:26.079 consultants and more like the kind of 0:56:25.599,0:56:29.359 brand 0:56:26.079,0:56:31.599 brand strategy and a big kind of vision 0:56:29.359,0:56:34.480 planning for companies 0:56:31.599,0:56:35.200 and um and they send out amazing 0:56:34.480,0:56:39.040 newsletter 0:56:35.200,0:56:40.880 uh every two weeks and i truly truly 0:56:39.040,0:56:42.720 like one of those few newsletters that i 0:56:40.880,0:56:45.359 still keep subscribing to 0:56:42.720,0:56:46.000 and it's it's it's like a conversation 0:56:45.359,0:56:49.520 and john 0:56:46.000,0:56:51.280 paul he he com he composes 0:56:49.520,0:56:53.040 it's about marketing more like work 0:56:51.280,0:56:55.599 geared towards cmos 0:56:53.040,0:56:57.440 and it's a conversation it's like hey 0:56:55.599,0:56:59.119 this is this is like he kind of observes 0:56:57.440,0:57:00.000 what has been happening in the past two 0:56:59.119,0:57:01.599 weeks and 0:57:00.000,0:57:02.960 and writes in almost a couple of bullet 0:57:01.599,0:57:03.680 points but each of those bullet points 0:57:02.960,0:57:06.720 it sounds like it's 0:57:03.680,0:57:09.680 like a continuation of a sentence 0:57:06.720,0:57:10.400 and then off shoots off to to it to 0:57:09.680,0:57:13.119 another 0:57:10.400,0:57:15.119 article and it's so pleasant to read 0:57:13.119,0:57:18.720 easy to read rather than just like this 0:57:15.119,0:57:20.240 jam of uh jammed links and paragraphs 0:57:18.720,0:57:23.599 and everything else it was just 0:57:20.240,0:57:25.359 easy to go through and and i i was 0:57:23.599,0:57:27.280 thinking he's like i'm wondering if that 0:57:25.359,0:57:28.480 that could be trained to just write it 0:57:27.280,0:57:30.720 in that way so 0:57:28.480,0:57:32.319 right right like if you could just give 0:57:30.720,0:57:35.440 a certain format right so 0:57:32.319,0:57:37.680 right yeah that does actually seem 0:57:35.440,0:57:39.760 you know because uh you could probably 0:57:37.680,0:57:41.359 um like aggregate links you know 0:57:39.760,0:57:43.200 bookmark links that were intro like i 0:57:41.359,0:57:45.760 was talking to a buddy recently who 0:57:43.200,0:57:46.640 likes to read articles and then share 0:57:45.760,0:57:50.079 the articles 0:57:46.640,0:57:53.200 he's read but i could imagine um 0:57:50.079,0:57:54.559 you just simply bookmarking five six 0:57:53.200,0:57:56.079 seven links that you thought were 0:57:54.559,0:57:59.119 interesting this week 0:57:56.079,0:58:01.280 and then you have an uh gbt3 that's kind 0:57:59.119,0:58:02.160 of maybe trained on your tone or your 0:58:01.280,0:58:04.319 style 0:58:02.160,0:58:05.520 maybe you have a more natural style or 0:58:04.319,0:58:07.920 you know whatever 0:58:05.520,0:58:09.680 um and just generating like a short 0:58:07.920,0:58:11.520 sentence about each link or something 0:58:09.680,0:58:13.200 like that could be a really 0:58:11.520,0:58:15.440 think about your newsletters right it's 0:58:13.200,0:58:17.520 like like it's uh like if you're able to 0:58:15.440,0:58:18.000 train it to do at least maybe a portion 0:58:17.520,0:58:20.720 of that 0:58:18.000,0:58:21.680 yeah you know for you like instead of 0:58:20.720,0:58:23.599 you of writing at all 0:58:21.680,0:58:25.599 yeah yeah let's see how those are going 0:58:23.599,0:58:27.440 to be the future of newsletters yeah 0:58:25.599,0:58:28.799 i want to ask a little bit more about 0:58:27.440,0:58:30.240 apply digital i know you talked a little 0:58:28.799,0:58:32.559 bit about some of the work that you 0:58:30.240,0:58:34.480 do there and i took a look at the uh 0:58:32.559,0:58:36.160 website um this morning 0:58:34.480,0:58:38.640 and i think like you you kind of talked 0:58:36.160,0:58:40.319 about this but uh you guys 0:58:38.640,0:58:42.240 focus not just on like not just a 0:58:40.319,0:58:45.440 typical e-commerce agency but you do 0:58:42.240,0:58:47.040 a lot of product uh consulting as well 0:58:45.440,0:58:49.280 i was just curious to know like kind of 0:58:47.040,0:58:51.599 what makes apply digital unique 0:58:49.280,0:58:54.720 and you know what differentia 0:58:51.599,0:58:57.359 differentiates them as an agency 0:58:54.720,0:58:58.319 yeah so apply digital it's it's 0:58:57.359,0:59:00.400 interesting to see 0:58:58.319,0:59:01.440 how at some point in the past i was 0:59:00.400,0:59:04.400 working for last 0:59:01.440,0:59:06.640 for blast radius and then from that one 0:59:04.400,0:59:08.480 agency different other agencies spin off 0:59:06.640,0:59:09.040 like modern craft is one of them you 0:59:08.480,0:59:13.040 know like 0:59:09.040,0:59:15.839 apply digital is another one and and um 0:59:13.040,0:59:18.480 apply digital is one of the agencies i'm 0:59:15.839,0:59:18.960 working with and they predominantly 0:59:18.480,0:59:21.200 focus 0:59:18.960,0:59:22.640 on product like product design 0:59:21.200,0:59:25.599 development 0:59:22.640,0:59:27.119 e-commerce it's uh it was interesting 0:59:25.599,0:59:28.319 when we were crafting a point of view of 0:59:27.119,0:59:30.240 like what is e-commerce and 0:59:28.319,0:59:31.599 are we doing it or not well e-commerce 0:59:30.240,0:59:32.000 is just a touch point of a broader 0:59:31.599,0:59:34.799 customer 0:59:32.000,0:59:35.760 experience when like when you really 0:59:34.799,0:59:38.079 consider that 0:59:35.760,0:59:40.079 it's it's really true like it's not uh 0:59:38.079,0:59:41.520 there are agencies and there are certain 0:59:40.079,0:59:43.680 consultants that focus just on 0:59:41.520,0:59:44.960 e-commerce but 0:59:43.680,0:59:47.119 when you look at that kind of 0:59:44.960,0:59:48.720 omnichannel or holistic journey or 0:59:47.119,0:59:50.240 everything like no matter what buzzword 0:59:48.720,0:59:53.119 you look at 0:59:50.240,0:59:54.480 when somebody engages with the brand 0:59:53.119,0:59:56.880 they engage with so many different 0:59:54.480,0:59:58.720 properties so many apps and any com 0:59:56.880,1:00:01.200 a transactional experience or that 0:59:58.720,1:00:03.760 shopping is is just one of the 1:00:01.200,1:00:05.520 points of that experience and and so 1:00:03.760,1:00:07.839 when you when you approach products like 1:00:05.520,1:00:10.559 that projects like that 1:00:07.839,1:00:11.839 then you you look a lot broader and you 1:00:10.559,1:00:14.880 start developing 1:00:11.839,1:00:18.000 environment or these experiences 1:00:14.880,1:00:20.160 that truly add value 1:00:18.000,1:00:21.680 you know there's uh you know you're not 1:00:20.160,1:00:23.920 just building 1:00:21.680,1:00:25.839 a website or like a platform of some 1:00:23.920,1:00:26.640 sort just to because client asked and 1:00:25.839,1:00:29.359 it's it 1:00:26.640,1:00:31.119 you know it's it looks good you know you 1:00:29.359,1:00:33.200 you look for that where is that smart 1:00:31.119,1:00:34.400 aspect of that platform you know whether 1:00:33.200,1:00:38.319 if it's that 1:00:34.400,1:00:42.319 um you know there is this one case study 1:00:38.319,1:00:46.400 uh that's being published uh soon play 1:00:42.319,1:00:48.000 which for those who are gamers 1:00:46.400,1:00:50.160 they want to they want to play with 1:00:48.000,1:00:53.200 their buddies and they want to put 1:00:50.160,1:00:56.640 like let's say hey let's play for 10 1:00:53.200,1:00:57.280 but fifa or you know maddens and all 1:00:56.640,1:00:59.839 these other 1:00:57.280,1:01:01.280 couple of games so how do you do that 1:00:59.839,1:01:02.640 well right now everybody kind of goes an 1:01:01.280,1:01:05.440 honor system 1:01:02.640,1:01:07.040 they uh they play a game and then maybe 1:01:05.440,1:01:08.160 mired it through paypal but you know 1:01:07.040,1:01:10.799 somebody could say like no 1:01:08.160,1:01:12.240 i won like what what's mechanism there 1:01:10.799,1:01:12.880 like let alone if you play with the 1:01:12.240,1:01:16.079 stranger 1:01:12.880,1:01:18.079 or for more money so uh play 1:01:16.079,1:01:19.280 raised quite a lot of money to build the 1:01:18.079,1:01:21.440 platform and they 1:01:19.280,1:01:22.720 came to apply to say okay there's this 1:01:21.440,1:01:24.559 idea like we can 1:01:22.720,1:01:26.319 like this this there's really good niche 1:01:24.559,1:01:28.640 like what's the best way to go about 1:01:26.319,1:01:30.480 building it and that's where that's 1:01:28.640,1:01:33.680 where apply is really good at 1:01:30.480,1:01:34.000 knowing how to how to build the product 1:01:33.680,1:01:36.160 uh 1:01:34.000,1:01:37.280 in the best possible way from like as a 1:01:36.160,1:01:39.200 business 1:01:37.280,1:01:40.880 you know you're not only executing some 1:01:39.200,1:01:42.559 like clients 1:01:40.880,1:01:44.640 like hey this is what i want to build 1:01:42.559,1:01:48.000 and like here's exact specs 1:01:44.640,1:01:49.440 now you actually help help to define 1:01:48.000,1:01:50.960 what it needs to be and how it needs to 1:01:49.440,1:01:52.400 work and how it needs to like how it can 1:01:50.960,1:01:53.920 be or any money and so 1:01:52.400,1:01:55.599 part of that definition was like hey 1:01:53.920,1:01:59.359 you're using this 1:01:55.599,1:02:02.240 uh machine vision to determine 1:01:59.359,1:02:03.200 who is winning you know you you 1:02:02.240,1:02:06.480 establish 1:02:03.200,1:02:06.960 escrows to make sure that you keep the 1:02:06.480,1:02:09.599 money 1:02:06.960,1:02:10.400 and then just and put it out like and 1:02:09.599,1:02:12.079 and this 1:02:10.400,1:02:14.319 dispense it only when the veneer is 1:02:12.079,1:02:15.520 determined that is being determined also 1:02:14.319,1:02:18.160 by the machine 1:02:15.520,1:02:18.960 you know who like who you know you your 1:02:18.160,1:02:20.960 machine learns 1:02:18.960,1:02:22.480 like a machine observes a player and in 1:02:20.960,1:02:24.160 10 games they understand whether you're 1:02:22.480,1:02:25.359 expert or a beginner so that nobody can 1:02:24.160,1:02:27.599 take somebody who's like ah 1:02:25.359,1:02:29.119 like i know like i'm i'm a beginner 1:02:27.599,1:02:31.920 let's play for 100 1:02:29.119,1:02:32.799 right they're truly an expert right so 1:02:31.920,1:02:34.480 that's where 1:02:32.799,1:02:36.000 that's maybe the easiest way to describe 1:02:34.480,1:02:37.599 like it is 1:02:36.000,1:02:39.520 what makes it different and what the 1:02:37.599,1:02:41.920 applies thinking is that 1:02:39.520,1:02:42.960 it's not only just designing a good 1:02:41.920,1:02:45.760 product 1:02:42.960,1:02:46.319 uh it's actually helping you to create a 1:02:45.760,1:02:49.200 product 1:02:46.319,1:02:49.680 like vision the strategy behind it you 1:02:49.200,1:02:51.119 know 1:02:49.680,1:02:53.039 because quite often entrepreneurs when 1:02:51.119,1:02:54.240 they have ideas um 1:02:53.039,1:02:56.319 they don't necessarily know all the 1:02:54.240,1:02:58.240 details how they're going to get it done 1:02:56.319,1:03:00.240 and so there's that bridging the gap 1:02:58.240,1:03:01.760 being okay well this is you you're you 1:03:00.240,1:03:02.960 have come with the money and you come 1:03:01.760,1:03:06.079 with that vision 1:03:02.960,1:03:07.440 i understand your your desire now let's 1:03:06.079,1:03:10.319 understand 1:03:07.440,1:03:10.559 the market the user like what what can 1:03:10.319,1:03:13.280 they 1:03:10.559,1:03:16.079 what do they want truly and then 1:03:13.280,1:03:18.799 technology capabilities and limitations 1:03:16.079,1:03:20.319 uh what can be done and you and you 1:03:18.799,1:03:21.599 create that plan and you execute it 1:03:20.319,1:03:24.000 really well and so that's 1:03:21.599,1:03:26.720 that's where e-commerce as well is right 1:03:24.000,1:03:30.000 if that is a company that 1:03:26.720,1:03:32.000 um you know e-commerce we we always see 1:03:30.000,1:03:34.000 like maybe this shopping this really 1:03:32.000,1:03:35.760 like a very clear like shopify shopping 1:03:34.000,1:03:38.240 experience you know homepage and so on 1:03:35.760,1:03:39.920 but ecommerce is also some of the b2b 1:03:38.240,1:03:41.760 industries where they like publishing 1:03:39.920,1:03:44.000 companies where they need 1:03:41.760,1:03:45.760 publish like builders need to publish 1:03:44.000,1:03:47.119 certain kind of like um 1:03:45.760,1:03:48.799 announcements that they have finished 1:03:47.119,1:03:50.559 certain projects because of the like 1:03:48.799,1:03:53.039 legislations and like regulations that 1:03:50.559,1:03:54.880 they can get money from the banks if 1:03:53.039,1:03:56.799 it's published in the proper place now 1:03:54.880,1:03:59.200 even enabling that kind of 100 year old 1:03:56.799,1:04:02.559 company who has been doing publishing 1:03:59.200,1:04:04.400 for uh construction companies 1:04:02.559,1:04:05.680 you know you digitize that and that's an 1:04:04.400,1:04:07.760 e-commerce too 1:04:05.680,1:04:09.760 you know you you see like uh how that 1:04:07.760,1:04:10.640 fits in in a broader scale and you need 1:04:09.760,1:04:12.240 to figure out 1:04:10.640,1:04:14.079 how to make it so it actually makes 1:04:12.240,1:04:16.880 money because before that 1:04:14.079,1:04:17.440 money was like their cost was based on 1:04:16.880,1:04:19.039 on 1:04:17.440,1:04:21.359 like words or lines because there was 1:04:19.039,1:04:23.280 actual print was printed 1:04:21.359,1:04:24.640 but when you transition from a print 1:04:23.280,1:04:26.720 into digital 1:04:24.640,1:04:28.880 you don't have the limitation anymore 1:04:26.720,1:04:32.319 there's no limit to the space 1:04:28.880,1:04:34.079 so you can't really charge 1:04:32.319,1:04:35.440 on the same level with the same pricing 1:04:34.079,1:04:37.039 so you have to rethink it 1:04:35.440,1:04:38.559 you have to help them to rethink their 1:04:37.039,1:04:41.039 business and uh 1:04:38.559,1:04:42.559 and that's uh yeah that's what uh apply 1:04:41.039,1:04:44.240 is doing really well that's cool i 1:04:42.559,1:04:47.039 feel like you have an interesting 1:04:44.240,1:04:50.160 perspective having worked agency side 1:04:47.039,1:04:51.440 and also been really deep within uh a 1:04:50.160,1:04:52.880 merchant company 1:04:51.440,1:04:54.640 and having been on both sides and 1:04:52.880,1:04:55.119 understanding you know i know a lot of 1:04:54.640,1:04:56.799 people who 1:04:55.119,1:04:58.400 just pretty much always worked at an 1:04:56.799,1:04:58.880 agency and they enjoy that they enjoy 1:04:58.400,1:05:00.720 the 1:04:58.880,1:05:02.160 diversity of projects and getting to 1:05:00.720,1:05:04.559 work on new things and 1:05:02.160,1:05:06.240 moving at a fast pace but i think that 1:05:04.559,1:05:10.079 you probably have developed 1:05:06.240,1:05:12.000 a stronger intuition or empathy for 1:05:10.079,1:05:14.240 the way things need to happen the 1:05:12.000,1:05:16.400 internal politics the way that 1:05:14.240,1:05:18.559 um you know things need to be moved 1:05:16.400,1:05:21.200 forward within a merchant 1:05:18.559,1:05:22.000 within a company and i think you 1:05:21.200,1:05:23.920 probably have a unique 1:05:22.000,1:05:26.000 perspective there you know and are able 1:05:23.920,1:05:27.520 to help 1:05:26.000,1:05:28.799 get things sometimes i would say that 1:05:27.520,1:05:30.240 those who don't have the perspective 1:05:28.799,1:05:31.440 it's easier to get things done because 1:05:30.240,1:05:32.240 you just don't know what you're not 1:05:31.440,1:05:34.559 doing like what you're 1:05:32.240,1:05:36.319 dealing with you just go plow through 1:05:34.559,1:05:37.599 and like oh okay well i didn't know that 1:05:36.319,1:05:40.880 was not okay but 1:05:37.599,1:05:41.280 here's the result yeah um as i would 1:05:40.880,1:05:43.680 yeah 1:05:41.280,1:05:46.319 i i do have that like unique perspective 1:05:43.680,1:05:50.640 and i truly appreciate that past 1:05:46.319,1:05:54.000 um both sides are like are amazing 1:05:50.640,1:05:54.720 i would say that i i like the agency 1:05:54.000,1:05:58.079 side for 1:05:54.720,1:06:02.000 the ability to change 1:05:58.079,1:06:03.760 uh context you know like you have 1:06:02.000,1:06:05.280 you have three four or five clients at 1:06:03.760,1:06:07.440 the same time so you have to 1:06:05.280,1:06:09.200 switch around context and that that's 1:06:07.440,1:06:11.440 the energy you you're able to 1:06:09.200,1:06:14.640 like build something something you have 1:06:11.440,1:06:17.280 not done before but also 1:06:14.640,1:06:18.880 client side it allows you to go so much 1:06:17.280,1:06:22.640 deeper 1:06:18.880,1:06:24.559 you know where um it's you you 1:06:22.640,1:06:26.240 you are maybe working on one or two 1:06:24.559,1:06:28.400 things for years 1:06:26.240,1:06:30.079 but really really digging deep that's 1:06:28.400,1:06:31.039 something that agency will never have 1:06:30.079,1:06:34.079 the luxury 1:06:31.039,1:06:38.480 to be able to do now what i'm also 1:06:34.079,1:06:40.720 noticed was that client side 1:06:38.480,1:06:44.000 they're doing everything for the first 1:06:40.720,1:06:47.839 time and the only time 1:06:44.000,1:06:50.559 like when you're doing magento migration 1:06:47.839,1:06:52.400 that team is doing it for the first time 1:06:50.559,1:06:55.520 that 1:06:52.400,1:06:57.520 and the only time yeah they will 1:06:55.520,1:06:58.720 they they shouldn't be migrating again 1:06:57.520,1:07:01.200 the same like 1:06:58.720,1:07:03.039 that's it and and so when you think 1:07:01.200,1:07:04.880 about the amount of knowledge that is 1:07:03.039,1:07:06.720 being 1:07:04.880,1:07:08.480 like not wasted but it's like you know 1:07:06.720,1:07:11.119 you're they're spending all that effort 1:07:08.480,1:07:12.319 to just do that one job once yeah and 1:07:11.119,1:07:14.319 that's it 1:07:12.319,1:07:16.160 and so that's where agency i think is 1:07:14.319,1:07:17.920 really like they they've done it many 1:07:16.160,1:07:20.319 times and so they're able to 1:07:17.920,1:07:21.520 to help uh with that a lot more so 1:07:20.319,1:07:24.000 there's pros and cons and 1:07:21.520,1:07:25.599 like it's a i i recommend everybody to 1:07:24.000,1:07:27.680 experience both sides yeah 1:07:25.599,1:07:29.440 i it's a smart have you been in the 1:07:27.680,1:07:30.160 client side or you've only been oh yeah 1:07:29.440,1:07:32.000 i worked for 1:07:30.160,1:07:34.000 a what were you doing uh i worked for a 1:07:32.000,1:07:36.319 company called clean program it was a 1:07:34.000,1:07:38.079 like a supplements company they sold 1:07:36.319,1:07:40.799 cleanses and stuff like that 1:07:38.079,1:07:42.000 and i did an upgrade actually i did a 1:07:40.799,1:07:45.440 magento upgrade for 1:07:42.000,1:07:46.799 them and it went really well uh so they 1:07:45.440,1:07:48.400 brought me on full-time and it was a 1:07:46.799,1:07:50.319 great job i was living in l.a at the 1:07:48.400,1:07:51.920 time they were based in la so i was 1:07:50.319,1:07:54.640 mostly remote but we'd hang out in 1:07:51.920,1:07:57.760 person great team 1:07:54.640,1:07:59.599 really really enjoyed it um and 1:07:57.760,1:08:00.799 yeah so i did you know a bunch of 1:07:59.599,1:08:04.079 magento development 1:08:00.799,1:08:06.640 uh for them and uh it was it was cool 1:08:04.079,1:08:08.240 it was a fun experience yeah it's 1:08:06.640,1:08:11.920 fascinating to see how much 1:08:08.240,1:08:14.640 like i remember we had the biotech um 1:08:11.920,1:08:17.040 where i was where i was working and we 1:08:14.640,1:08:20.239 we had to solve 1:08:17.040,1:08:22.400 uh china uh we had to like china speed 1:08:20.239,1:08:24.000 you know like it was it was like 1:08:22.400,1:08:25.520 there was a lot of like there's a great 1:08:24.000,1:08:27.120 firewall of china as well that you need 1:08:25.520,1:08:29.600 to deal with you know and if you want to 1:08:27.120,1:08:32.319 like we have like we had amount good 1:08:29.600,1:08:33.920 amount of clients in china and so 1:08:32.319,1:08:35.679 how do you solve it when you're all your 1:08:33.920,1:08:38.880 servers are in us everything all the 1:08:35.679,1:08:41.759 services everything is us-based 1:08:38.880,1:08:43.279 and you know i remember there was one 1:08:41.759,1:08:46.560 technical architect or one dev 1:08:43.279,1:08:50.239 that who spent probably two months 1:08:46.560,1:08:53.600 on exploring like measuring testing 1:08:50.239,1:08:55.920 just trying to find out as 1:08:53.600,1:08:57.600 a way to improve improve the speed and 1:08:55.920,1:08:59.759 there's so many different options 1:08:57.600,1:09:02.239 but once we figured out i said like can 1:08:59.759,1:09:05.359 we just write a blog about it because 1:09:02.239,1:09:07.120 that knowledge is just gone right like 1:09:05.359,1:09:08.799 you're moving on to some other projects 1:09:07.120,1:09:10.560 nobody ever is going back like what 1:09:08.799,1:09:11.679 happens with all this insight that we 1:09:10.560,1:09:13.040 just spent yeah 1:09:11.679,1:09:14.960 uh we didn't publish it like 1:09:13.040,1:09:16.400 unfortunately we didn't publish it but 1:09:14.960,1:09:18.000 well that's that's that's and that's 1:09:16.400,1:09:19.600 kind of the downside of being 1:09:18.000,1:09:21.839 client-side is that 1:09:19.600,1:09:23.120 there isn't that incentive to share it 1:09:21.839,1:09:24.880 right like you wanted to share it 1:09:23.120,1:09:26.560 because you probably have that thing in 1:09:24.880,1:09:27.040 you that's the reason your agency side 1:09:26.560,1:09:29.199 of 1:09:27.040,1:09:30.319 where you you want to share things like 1:09:29.199,1:09:32.319 that like the 1:09:30.319,1:09:34.239 the idea of sharing that knowledge and 1:09:32.319,1:09:35.520 compounding the value that was created 1:09:34.239,1:09:38.560 is something that you just 1:09:35.520,1:09:40.799 are driven to do but like because for an 1:09:38.560,1:09:43.040 agency when they publish that blog post 1:09:40.799,1:09:44.239 that's marketing for them there's value 1:09:43.040,1:09:46.000 you know there's an incentive there 1:09:44.239,1:09:47.600 whereas client-side 1:09:46.000,1:09:49.679 they might want to do it and sometimes 1:09:47.600,1:09:50.960 clients will share that kind of stuff 1:09:49.679,1:09:52.880 but a lot of times they don't because 1:09:50.960,1:09:53.679 there really isn't the incentive but i'm 1:09:52.880,1:09:56.560 i'm curious 1:09:53.679,1:09:57.920 how did you get around the firewall the 1:09:56.560,1:10:00.239 chinese well i don't think 1:09:57.920,1:10:01.199 i it's been a few years so there might 1:10:00.239,1:10:03.360 be like 1:10:01.199,1:10:05.040 already different solutions but uh like 1:10:03.360,1:10:06.239 there were a couple of options we needed 1:10:05.040,1:10:09.760 to look at 1:10:06.239,1:10:11.440 even like um different cdns okay uh we 1:10:09.760,1:10:14.000 were even exploring whether you 1:10:11.440,1:10:15.440 like put like an actual server in in 1:10:14.000,1:10:18.480 within china 1:10:15.440,1:10:18.880 and uh and i think temporarily we look 1:10:18.480,1:10:22.640 we 1:10:18.880,1:10:26.159 we went with the server in japan and 1:10:22.640,1:10:28.480 um and there were very like cdn even if 1:10:26.159,1:10:30.400 there is it a chinese cdn that provides 1:10:28.480,1:10:31.760 service in north america or north 1:10:30.400,1:10:35.360 american cdn 1:10:31.760,1:10:37.679 that has some like like servers in china 1:10:35.360,1:10:38.560 uh i honestly i can't remember which 1:10:37.679,1:10:41.840 option that we 1:10:38.560,1:10:44.239 did we end up with we we finished it the 1:10:41.840,1:10:46.480 speed was much better we had to limit 1:10:44.239,1:10:48.560 we had to limit couple of uh we couldn't 1:10:46.480,1:10:49.199 track google anymore we had to give up 1:10:48.560,1:10:51.760 google 1:10:49.199,1:10:53.280 analytics right um you know that was uh 1:10:51.760,1:10:55.920 we had to like use their 1:10:53.280,1:10:58.159 analytics platform and there were a 1:10:55.920,1:11:00.960 couple of other tradeoffs that 1:10:58.159,1:11:02.159 unfortunately had to be done yeah and 1:11:00.960,1:11:04.159 and so 1:11:02.159,1:11:05.440 again it's been it's been a few years i 1:11:04.159,1:11:06.560 don't remember the details anymore but 1:11:05.440,1:11:08.000 it would have been great if there would 1:11:06.560,1:11:09.760 be somewhere where it's like yeah there 1:11:08.000,1:11:11.679 was a plus like this post 1:11:09.760,1:11:13.120 go there it's all the details it's old 1:11:11.679,1:11:15.520 details probably there's so much more 1:11:13.120,1:11:17.840 new things now yeah 1:11:15.520,1:11:18.960 well giannis it's been a lot of fun uh 1:11:17.840,1:11:21.679 catching up with you 1:11:18.960,1:11:23.600 um any uh where's the best place for 1:11:21.679,1:11:25.679 people to find you online any last plugs 1:11:23.600,1:11:29.679 you want to give before we uh 1:11:25.679,1:11:32.320 wrap up um online for me 1:11:29.679,1:11:32.880 i i don't have a blog if i if i write 1:11:32.320,1:11:34.719 something 1:11:32.880,1:11:37.120 it's going to be published on linkedin 1:11:34.719,1:11:40.239 so find me on linkedin 1:11:37.120,1:11:43.360 i'm also building out a 1:11:40.239,1:11:45.760 website called brickleywithk.com and 1:11:43.360,1:11:48.239 it's mostly focused around e-commerce 1:11:45.760,1:11:49.199 not uh not as a like a blog site but 1:11:48.239,1:11:51.600 that's that's 1:11:49.199,1:11:53.040 that's something that's a as an angle 1:11:51.600,1:11:54.880 that i'm looking at 1:11:53.040,1:11:56.800 where i i could publish an article and 1:11:54.880,1:11:58.880 i'm working on one right now that deals 1:11:56.800,1:12:02.560 with 1:11:58.880,1:12:04.080 how do you differentiate between 1:12:02.560,1:12:05.440 different strategies like a commercial 1:12:04.080,1:12:05.760 or customer experience strategies you 1:12:05.440,1:12:08.239 know 1:12:05.760,1:12:08.880 strategies that optimize customer 1:12:08.239,1:12:12.400 experience 1:12:08.880,1:12:12.400 versus those that are 1:12:12.960,1:12:16.320 driving and optimizing revenue and it's 1:12:14.800,1:12:17.600 important for companies to really 1:12:16.320,1:12:20.640 understand the difference 1:12:17.600,1:12:24.960 that's going to help them a lot more 1:12:20.640,1:12:26.480 in in just buy-in and in planning 1:12:24.960,1:12:28.080 and that's where some of that like free 1:12:26.480,1:12:29.199 shipping for example free shipping is 1:12:28.080,1:12:30.800 not really 1:12:29.199,1:12:32.239 um it shouldn't be marketing like 1:12:30.800,1:12:34.000 customer experience uh 1:12:32.239,1:12:36.000 strategy it should be a commercial one 1:12:34.000,1:12:38.880 you know it is to drive revenue but 1:12:36.000,1:12:39.280 when you think about optimizing checkout 1:12:38.880,1:12:40.800 because 1:12:39.280,1:12:42.800 everybody feels like because it deals 1:12:40.800,1:12:44.640 with money that it's uh like it's a 1:12:42.800,1:12:46.400 it's a revenue kind of strategy and it's 1:12:44.640,1:12:47.520 like no actually you know it should be 1:12:46.400,1:12:48.800 approached more like a customer 1:12:47.520,1:12:50.480 experience strategy 1:12:48.800,1:12:52.719 now you want to make the buying process 1:12:50.480,1:12:54.719 easier so it's it's a conversation 1:12:52.719,1:12:57.679 around that uh that um 1:12:54.719,1:12:59.280 i'm i'm writing out and uh and there's a 1:12:57.679,1:13:00.800 couple of other interesting topics that 1:12:59.280,1:13:01.679 uh hopefully we'll be able to publish 1:13:00.800,1:13:03.679 and so 1:13:01.679,1:13:05.600 stay tuned on that i'll have to do a 1:13:03.679,1:13:07.440 whole other podcast because that sounds 1:13:05.600,1:13:08.320 really interesting so i'd love to talk 1:13:07.440,1:13:09.679 about that 1:13:08.320,1:13:11.360 all right man thanks we'll talk to you 1:13:09.679,1:13:12.400 thanks thanks for having me it's uh it's 1:13:11.360,1:13:14.960 it's great to see 1:13:12.400,1:13:16.640 the videos uh especially when you cut 1:13:14.960,1:13:18.320 the pieces and you just publish the 1:13:16.640,1:13:19.679 small pieces i was like oh this is great 1:13:18.320,1:13:21.679 like because that's like 1:13:19.679,1:13:23.199 you know the gems are coming awesome 1:13:21.679,1:13:27.199 awesome all right brother i'll talk to 1:13:23.199,1:13:27.199 you soon