Robert is the Director of Partnerships & Alliances at Jetrails, a white-glove hosting service for eCommerce businesses, helping merchants to maximize ROI, minimize risk, and sleep better at night knowing that they have a partner committed to their success.
He also hosts the Jetrails podcast.
Full transcript: https://v3.commercehero.io/podcast/94
0:00:00.000,0:00:02.720 i've spent a lot of time with a lot of 0:00:01.280,0:00:03.600 merchants and heard a lot of those 0:00:02.720,0:00:05.600 stories 0:00:03.600,0:00:06.960 um in some cases in more depth with some 0:00:05.600,0:00:10.080 more colorful words 0:00:06.960,0:00:11.840 behind closed doors right right about 0:00:10.080,0:00:17.920 things that have gone well and not gone 0:00:11.840,0:00:17.920 as well 0:00:18.240,0:00:27.480 [Music] 0:00:28.080,0:00:34.239 dude i'm i'm asleep by like 0:00:31.359,0:00:34.960 9 30 10 o'clock something like that you 0:00:34.239,0:00:37.440 know 0:00:34.960,0:00:38.239 yeah i've always been kind of an early 0:00:37.440,0:00:40.879 early bird 0:00:38.239,0:00:41.680 my wife works until around six and it's 0:00:40.879,0:00:45.360 very close 0:00:41.680,0:00:46.640 but um and she works uh for a non-profit 0:00:45.360,0:00:49.680 where the kids also are 0:00:46.640,0:00:50.800 in um daycare and preschool you know 0:00:49.680,0:00:52.879 respectively 0:00:50.800,0:00:54.239 right and so that they get home you know 0:00:52.879,0:00:55.680 plus or minus six 0:00:54.239,0:00:58.160 give give or take depending on the day 0:00:55.680,0:01:01.199 of the week um 0:00:58.160,0:01:01.680 and then i've we've gotta bathe and feed 0:01:01.199,0:01:04.960 and 0:01:01.680,0:01:07.280 do all the usual and then once you know 0:01:04.960,0:01:08.799 like once my daughter's in bed and ate 0:01:07.280,0:01:11.360 something 0:01:08.799,0:01:12.799 then it's time to do the dishes and do 0:01:11.360,0:01:16.240 the laundry and do 0:01:12.799,0:01:18.560 you know normal household things 0:01:16.240,0:01:19.840 yeah and then i've got to start to try 0:01:18.560,0:01:23.439 to wind down 0:01:19.840,0:01:26.000 and so you know i i can't possibly fall 0:01:23.439,0:01:28.479 asleep at 9 10 o'clock i haven't even 0:01:26.000,0:01:30.960 [Laughter] 0:01:28.479,0:01:31.759 haven't even begun to ramp down yeah 0:01:30.960,0:01:34.560 yeah but 0:01:31.759,0:01:35.600 i grew up in new york and i was always a 0:01:34.560,0:01:37.520 late night guy 0:01:35.600,0:01:39.520 and i mean you know it was just kind of 0:01:37.520,0:01:41.680 normal yeah 0:01:39.520,0:01:42.720 are you a developer is your background 0:01:41.680,0:01:45.520 as a developer or 0:01:42.720,0:01:46.479 i'm not by trade and so i i mean in 0:01:45.520,0:01:48.560 school 0:01:46.479,0:01:49.759 dating i mean but by the third grade 0:01:48.560,0:01:52.000 they were pulling me out of class for an 0:01:49.759,0:01:54.880 hour a day to help the computer teacher 0:01:52.000,0:01:55.280 so you know back in junior high high 0:01:54.880,0:01:59.360 school 0:01:55.280,0:02:03.040 college i did um you know basic q basic 0:01:59.360,0:02:04.240 sinclair basic q basics yeah yeah that 0:02:03.040,0:02:07.040 was my first basic 0:02:04.240,0:02:08.640 yeah yeah you know and then c plus and 0:02:07.040,0:02:11.680 what have you you know i can read some 0:02:08.640,0:02:13.920 html and that sort of thing you know 0:02:11.680,0:02:15.920 especially for where seo is concerned 0:02:13.920,0:02:19.680 the meta information 0:02:15.920,0:02:20.239 and other stuff but i um i do a better 0:02:19.680,0:02:24.080 job of 0:02:20.239,0:02:27.520 translating tech between 0:02:24.080,0:02:29.360 everyone else and developers than i do 0:02:27.520,0:02:30.879 um developing my myself and you'll 0:02:29.360,0:02:31.519 appreciate this because i know that you 0:02:30.879,0:02:34.000 have 0:02:31.519,0:02:36.480 a deeper background on that side there's 0:02:34.000,0:02:39.200 language involved um 0:02:36.480,0:02:39.920 i speak two languages english and worse 0:02:39.200,0:02:42.959 english 0:02:39.920,0:02:44.959 i'm a typical new yorker you know 0:02:42.959,0:02:47.040 okay like that's it you know you call 0:02:44.959,0:02:49.120 someone that speaks three languages 0:02:47.040,0:02:50.640 trilingual two languages bilingual one 0:02:49.120,0:02:52.959 language american like that's all that 0:02:50.640,0:02:52.959 they talk 0:02:54.239,0:02:58.640 i i think as i switched schools growing 0:02:58.319,0:03:01.519 up 0:02:58.640,0:03:03.760 i went from french to hebrew to spanish 0:03:01.519,0:03:05.280 i kept jumping around i never perfected 0:03:03.760,0:03:06.159 anything and i think i feel the same way 0:03:05.280,0:03:08.640 about 0:03:06.159,0:03:10.879 uh coding that i never really stuck with 0:03:08.640,0:03:14.239 anything long enough to be 0:03:10.879,0:03:16.480 to to think in code and 0:03:14.239,0:03:18.159 so you know the good side of it is that 0:03:16.480,0:03:21.519 i really understand 0:03:18.159,0:03:22.959 relational databases and um and logic 0:03:21.519,0:03:23.360 statements and other things in a way 0:03:22.959,0:03:24.959 that i 0:03:23.360,0:03:26.560 understand why something might be 0:03:24.959,0:03:27.840 possible or might not or where some of 0:03:26.560,0:03:29.599 the challenges are going to arise where 0:03:27.840,0:03:32.560 something's going to break down 0:03:29.599,0:03:33.120 um i've spent time you know i i'm an 0:03:32.560,0:03:35.760 agile 0:03:33.120,0:03:37.040 scrum master i've project managed you 0:03:35.760,0:03:39.200 know different projects i've 0:03:37.040,0:03:40.879 i've had different experience in all 0:03:39.200,0:03:42.799 sorts of facets from the 0:03:40.879,0:03:44.080 sales and account management and project 0:03:42.799,0:03:47.760 management and 0:03:44.080,0:03:49.519 um as sort of a super admin um 0:03:47.760,0:03:51.120 when it comes to some of these platforms 0:03:49.519,0:03:54.720 like uh magento 0:03:51.120,0:03:56.400 wordpress etc uh 0:03:54.720,0:03:58.000 there's a lot of you know a lot of time 0:03:56.400,0:04:00.000 on the the marketing side 0:03:58.000,0:04:01.200 so i've been certified i'm teen ways by 0:04:00.000,0:04:04.480 google and 0:04:01.200,0:04:06.720 uh and other platforms and so i i'm 0:04:04.480,0:04:08.959 extremely proficient when it comes to 0:04:06.720,0:04:11.439 you know google analytics and ads and 0:04:08.959,0:04:13.519 uh you know and all sorts of facets of 0:04:11.439,0:04:14.000 conversion rate optimization and get 0:04:13.519,0:04:16.720 involved 0:04:14.000,0:04:19.040 in that pretty early on and so i've got 0:04:16.720,0:04:22.400 all of these things coming together 0:04:19.040,0:04:25.440 um but have i ever just spent 0:04:22.400,0:04:28.800 all day professionally on one thing like 0:04:25.440,0:04:31.040 coding out solutions not really 0:04:28.800,0:04:32.800 and so my hat's off to the people that 0:04:31.040,0:04:35.520 are really experts in that 0:04:32.800,0:04:37.360 domain that go above and beyond uh and 0:04:35.520,0:04:40.240 that do some really amazing things 0:04:37.360,0:04:42.320 hopefully i bring value in my own way by 0:04:40.240,0:04:43.440 um you know helping to bring those 0:04:42.320,0:04:46.479 things to market 0:04:43.440,0:04:49.199 and um and connect the right people and 0:04:46.479,0:04:50.880 uh and figure out the the right things 0:04:49.199,0:04:54.240 at the right moment 0:04:50.880,0:04:55.360 um as more of that uh 0:04:54.240,0:04:58.400 i don't even know what to call me 0:04:55.360,0:05:00.720 anymore but you know director 0:04:58.400,0:05:02.479 director of partnerships and alliances 0:05:00.720,0:05:04.080 that's what they call me these days yeah 0:05:02.479,0:05:06.080 that's 0:05:04.080,0:05:07.120 that's the title i was never a huge 0:05:06.080,0:05:10.400 title guy 0:05:07.120,0:05:12.320 um i i roll with the punches so 0:05:10.400,0:05:13.840 hard to say if it's always the right 0:05:12.320,0:05:15.199 title because i'm used to doing more 0:05:13.840,0:05:17.280 than one thing 0:05:15.199,0:05:18.639 um and i think that that's part of the 0:05:17.280,0:05:20.800 challenge for me that going back to my 0:05:18.639,0:05:23.520 agency days i oversaw 0:05:20.800,0:05:25.520 all of our e-commerce sales and strategy 0:05:23.520,0:05:27.759 and partnerships and 0:05:25.520,0:05:28.720 um all sorts of different things that 0:05:27.759,0:05:31.120 you know 0:05:28.720,0:05:31.919 uh including on on the marketing side 0:05:31.120,0:05:33.680 you know 0:05:31.919,0:05:35.680 going in there and identifying when 0:05:33.680,0:05:36.880 something was stuck something wasn't 0:05:35.680,0:05:39.280 working the way that someone else 0:05:36.880,0:05:43.280 thought it should be um 0:05:39.280,0:05:46.320 it's just you know and i think most 0:05:43.280,0:05:48.800 agencies you know that that are in the 0:05:46.320,0:05:50.639 tens of employees not hundreds have a 0:05:48.800,0:05:52.479 lot of the same experience that 0:05:50.639,0:05:54.960 you know the leadership wears multiple 0:05:52.479,0:05:57.280 hats in pretty much every case 0:05:54.960,0:05:58.560 if the place is running well you can be 0:05:57.280,0:06:02.240 pretty sure of it 0:05:58.560,0:06:04.479 and i think that um that going from that 0:06:02.240,0:06:06.160 uh since then getting into partnerships 0:06:04.479,0:06:10.080 and alliances full time 0:06:06.160,0:06:14.000 has almost simplified 0:06:10.080,0:06:16.000 my day but i think part of the fun of it 0:06:14.000,0:06:17.759 and why the role works for me 0:06:16.000,0:06:19.919 is that i'm always learning something 0:06:17.759,0:06:22.960 new from our partners 0:06:19.919,0:06:24.560 i'm engaged at trade shows even if this 0:06:22.960,0:06:27.680 year they're virtual 0:06:24.560,0:06:28.800 i get to create content and that 0:06:27.680,0:06:31.520 includes research 0:06:28.800,0:06:33.680 and uh and leveraging some of the 0:06:31.520,0:06:34.880 information and skills that i i have so 0:06:33.680,0:06:36.479 i write 0:06:34.880,0:06:38.000 by my standards at least a lot of 0:06:36.479,0:06:39.840 articles and 0:06:38.000,0:06:41.440 uh participate in a lot of ebooks and 0:06:39.840,0:06:44.080 create a you know a lot of 0:06:41.440,0:06:45.600 the written word and i also post the jet 0:06:44.080,0:06:48.479 rails podcast and 0:06:45.600,0:06:49.039 get to create audio and video content as 0:06:48.479,0:06:51.360 well 0:06:49.039,0:06:52.720 nothing of this caliber mind you but i 0:06:51.360,0:06:54.560 think no man i think you're 0:06:52.720,0:06:56.639 i think it's um i think you're really 0:06:54.560,0:06:58.400 doing a great job i was uh 0:06:56.639,0:07:00.080 and by the way let's let's let's just 0:06:58.400,0:07:02.000 say this is the podcast since we've been 0:07:00.080,0:07:03.440 getting fired up and getting going oh 0:07:02.000,0:07:05.840 now i'm in trouble i don't know 0:07:03.440,0:07:07.120 i don't know what i've said my filter 0:07:05.840,0:07:09.120 wasn't on yet 0:07:07.120,0:07:10.639 we cannot we can edit that stuff out but 0:07:09.120,0:07:14.240 um 0:07:10.639,0:07:17.199 but uh yeah i was checking it out and um 0:07:14.240,0:07:18.479 i i love what you're doing like the role 0:07:17.199,0:07:21.919 that you're in 0:07:18.479,0:07:23.680 um doing partnerships um for jet rails 0:07:21.919,0:07:25.840 hosting company and just bringing 0:07:23.680,0:07:27.280 different people on to the show and kind 0:07:25.840,0:07:29.520 of connecting 0:07:27.280,0:07:31.039 um i think it's brilliant i think it's 0:07:29.520,0:07:34.240 really um 0:07:31.039,0:07:34.800 a smart strategy and you seem to be in a 0:07:34.240,0:07:37.599 perfect 0:07:34.800,0:07:39.280 position to be doing it like you said 0:07:37.599,0:07:40.560 having a lot of skills and a lot of 0:07:39.280,0:07:43.199 interests 0:07:40.560,0:07:44.800 um you know you can talk to a vendor and 0:07:43.199,0:07:46.080 and dig into seo 0:07:44.800,0:07:48.639 dig into different things with them and 0:07:46.080,0:07:50.160 then talk to an agency solutions partner 0:07:48.639,0:07:51.680 so i think it's a really good strategy 0:07:50.160,0:07:53.440 that you have going 0:07:51.680,0:07:55.520 i appreciate that i'll absolutely take 0:07:53.440,0:07:58.639 the compliment i'll try not to blush 0:07:55.520,0:08:01.280 too much but it's a labor of love 0:07:58.639,0:08:02.639 i i'm gonna have those partner 0:08:01.280,0:08:04.800 conversations 0:08:02.639,0:08:05.919 in a lot of cases any way to learn about 0:08:04.800,0:08:08.240 their strengths uh 0:08:05.919,0:08:10.080 to learn about um what's going on on 0:08:08.240,0:08:13.120 market how our users 0:08:10.080,0:08:13.919 uh at jet rails should be leveraging 0:08:13.120,0:08:17.199 different 0:08:13.919,0:08:18.720 um tools and strategies and you know 0:08:17.199,0:08:19.039 figuring out how we can work with some 0:08:18.720,0:08:22.639 of the 0:08:19.039,0:08:26.080 these amazing companies and it's almost 0:08:22.639,0:08:27.919 a waste not to get that recorded and not 0:08:26.080,0:08:29.759 to share that with the world in that 0:08:27.919,0:08:34.240 more direct fashion 0:08:29.759,0:08:36.640 so you know it came up naturally but 0:08:34.240,0:08:39.519 they're typically when we go and 0:08:36.640,0:08:39.519 interview someone 0:08:39.760,0:08:43.519 i you know we find some people ask to be 0:08:42.159,0:08:46.240 on the podcast others 0:08:43.519,0:08:46.880 we invite on um it's a little bit of a 0:08:46.240,0:08:49.760 mix 0:08:46.880,0:08:52.399 there's no advertising so you know we're 0:08:49.760,0:08:54.880 not really focused on on that side of it 0:08:52.399,0:08:55.600 most episodes don't touch on web hosting 0:08:54.880,0:08:57.680 so 0:08:55.600,0:09:00.240 you know it's not out there specifically 0:08:57.680,0:09:01.760 to to look for a plug for jet rails 0:09:00.240,0:09:03.360 we actually think it's a great resource 0:09:01.760,0:09:04.720 for jet rail's users who don't need to 0:09:03.360,0:09:07.440 know about who we are they 0:09:04.720,0:09:08.959 work with us day in and day out as their 0:09:07.440,0:09:12.320 vendor already 0:09:08.959,0:09:13.519 and so instead of all that um i'll sit 0:09:12.320,0:09:14.880 there and i'll get a little bit of 0:09:13.519,0:09:17.600 research time 0:09:14.880,0:09:18.560 and i'll figure out you know what would 0:09:17.600,0:09:20.160 a merchant 0:09:18.560,0:09:22.080 really learn from what would a website 0:09:20.160,0:09:25.040 owner really learn from her or website 0:09:22.080,0:09:26.640 marketer or an e-commerce manager or 0:09:25.040,0:09:28.399 someone in one of these roles and not 0:09:26.640,0:09:31.519 every episode 0:09:28.399,0:09:32.399 is necessarily going to speak to every 0:09:31.519,0:09:36.160 possible 0:09:32.399,0:09:37.279 user out there and we don't mind that um 0:09:36.160,0:09:39.839 we figure that 0:09:37.279,0:09:41.839 in in the last less than two years we've 0:09:39.839,0:09:43.680 put out over 50 episodes so far and 0:09:41.839,0:09:47.120 we've got more in the can 0:09:43.680,0:09:47.680 um that the real goal there was to say 0:09:47.120,0:09:50.880 look 0:09:47.680,0:09:51.600 you know we can be thought leaders in 0:09:50.880,0:09:54.480 the space 0:09:51.600,0:09:57.279 we can keep some of these folks honest 0:09:54.480,0:09:58.959 you know i'm not a shock jock but 0:09:57.279,0:10:01.279 we're going to ask meaningful questions 0:09:58.959,0:10:03.120 and try to get at the heart of 0:10:01.279,0:10:05.120 why they do what they do how they 0:10:03.120,0:10:06.160 achieve it what's unique what's 0:10:05.120,0:10:08.000 different what are 0:10:06.160,0:10:09.680 some of the pros and cons what are 0:10:08.000,0:10:12.959 points of failure 0:10:09.680,0:10:14.160 when users think something might really 0:10:12.959,0:10:16.480 work for them you know 0:10:14.160,0:10:17.440 these businesses are are banking on it 0:10:16.480,0:10:20.320 but 0:10:17.440,0:10:21.760 something may fall by the wayside and so 0:10:20.320,0:10:22.560 we try to take all those kind of 0:10:21.760,0:10:24.880 different things 0:10:22.560,0:10:27.200 into account put something cool together 0:10:24.880,0:10:28.640 minimal editing it's 0:10:27.200,0:10:30.240 i mean i suppose if you were to go 0:10:28.640,0:10:31.440 through the back catalog and listen to 0:10:30.240,0:10:32.880 all those episodes 0:10:31.440,0:10:34.560 would probably be a little bit like 0:10:32.880,0:10:36.000 being at a trade show and you get all 0:10:34.560,0:10:37.440 these different sessions on all these 0:10:36.000,0:10:40.079 different subjects 0:10:37.440,0:10:41.040 and it kind of all flows together and 0:10:40.079,0:10:42.399 that's 0:10:41.040,0:10:44.800 i don't know if we knew that that's 0:10:42.399,0:10:47.279 exactly how it would work out but 0:10:44.800,0:10:48.079 it's been fun yeah it's so crazy because 0:10:47.279,0:10:50.959 i i read 0:10:48.079,0:10:52.320 um your medium post this morning or your 0:10:50.959,0:10:53.519 linkedin post this morning where you 0:10:52.320,0:10:55.200 talked about 0:10:53.519,0:10:56.640 kind of why you did the podcast and your 0:10:55.200,0:10:58.079 philosophy behind it and the no 0:10:56.640,0:11:01.120 advertising and the kind of 0:10:58.079,0:11:02.320 informal uh conversation i was like this 0:11:01.120,0:11:05.440 is like the exact 0:11:02.320,0:11:07.760 same philosophy that i have um 0:11:05.440,0:11:09.680 on on podcasts and like you said you 0:11:07.760,0:11:12.240 enjoy kind of the informal 0:11:09.680,0:11:14.079 conversational podcasts and i'm the same 0:11:12.240,0:11:15.839 way like those are my 0:11:14.079,0:11:17.519 favorite ones to listen to or the ones 0:11:15.839,0:11:19.680 that are just kind of you know 0:11:17.519,0:11:21.360 informal go all over the place touch a 0:11:19.680,0:11:24.399 lot of different topics 0:11:21.360,0:11:26.320 um no advertising and stuff like that 0:11:24.399,0:11:28.399 and i was like man we really have kind 0:11:26.320,0:11:30.560 of a dif a similar 0:11:28.399,0:11:32.399 way of thinking about um you know the 0:11:30.560,0:11:35.600 approach to the podcast 0:11:32.399,0:11:36.959 and i suppose that you started first and 0:11:35.600,0:11:39.200 if i had to admit it 0:11:36.959,0:11:41.760 i'm sure i listened into just a few 0:11:39.200,0:11:43.360 episodes before i began so 0:11:41.760,0:11:46.320 you can draw any conclusions that you'd 0:11:43.360,0:11:46.320 like from that but 0:11:46.880,0:11:50.320 but there's definitely some great 0:11:48.800,0:11:52.800 content going on and 0:11:50.320,0:11:54.320 folks like yourself have really been 0:11:52.800,0:11:56.480 mastering the medium 0:11:54.320,0:11:57.600 uh before i ever got to it and so i 0:11:56.480,0:11:59.839 think that that 0:11:57.600,0:12:01.440 certainly helped pave the way uh but 0:11:59.839,0:12:04.639 it's funny that when i 0:12:01.440,0:12:06.639 when i'm on my own time and listening to 0:12:04.639,0:12:08.839 podcasts which i absolutely do 0:12:06.639,0:12:11.120 uh it's hard to get me to wash the 0:12:08.839,0:12:13.760 dishes you know do certain things 0:12:11.120,0:12:15.200 without oh yeah podcast in my ears yeah 0:12:13.760,0:12:17.680 yeah 0:12:15.200,0:12:19.680 you know what i listen to is really a 0:12:17.680,0:12:22.720 mix of 0:12:19.680,0:12:25.440 science and economics and um 0:12:22.720,0:12:26.000 comedy and and all sorts of things but 0:12:25.440,0:12:28.000 there are 0:12:26.000,0:12:29.120 a few choice ones in our industry 0:12:28.000,0:12:30.959 including 0:12:29.120,0:12:32.720 um and sometimes these are videos that 0:12:30.959,0:12:35.920 i'll watch on youtube or 0:12:32.720,0:12:38.880 uh you know so there are differences in 0:12:35.920,0:12:41.279 in the mediums that are used but um tj 0:12:38.880,0:12:44.079 with e-commerce aholic is fantastic 0:12:41.279,0:12:45.760 and um i've enjoyed uh the episodes the 0:12:44.079,0:12:46.880 commerce party has put out the team at 0:12:45.760,0:12:50.160 chipperhq 0:12:46.880,0:12:51.600 and um i'm this is going to feel like an 0:12:50.160,0:12:52.720 award speech for me where i know that 0:12:51.600,0:12:54.160 i'm going to miss somebody and they're 0:12:52.720,0:12:55.600 going to be upset with me but 0:12:54.160,0:12:57.200 but there's some really good ones out 0:12:55.600,0:12:59.519 there that i do enjoy 0:12:57.200,0:13:00.560 um but i'll also admit that i i pick and 0:12:59.519,0:13:03.760 choose episodes 0:13:00.560,0:13:05.519 so you know i 0:13:03.760,0:13:06.959 i find that sometimes there are topics 0:13:05.519,0:13:08.079 where let's say there's a merchant being 0:13:06.959,0:13:10.480 interviewed which 0:13:08.079,0:13:11.279 you know for me when i go to a trade 0:13:10.480,0:13:13.440 show 0:13:11.279,0:13:15.360 i i sit in on the sessions that are 0:13:13.440,0:13:16.800 about product road maps and i sit in on 0:13:15.360,0:13:18.079 the sessions that are about new tech i 0:13:16.800,0:13:21.200 haven't seen before 0:13:18.079,0:13:22.639 i remember when gdpr came about and as 0:13:21.200,0:13:23.920 much as it was painful to sit through 0:13:22.639,0:13:24.720 some of those sessions there were so 0:13:23.920,0:13:27.360 many 0:13:24.720,0:13:28.560 i picked and chose and um and i found 0:13:27.360,0:13:29.760 that to be interesting and i 0:13:28.560,0:13:33.120 and there are some that i think there's 0:13:29.760,0:13:34.880 always new highlights so you look at 0:13:33.120,0:13:36.800 multi-channel integration and 0:13:34.880,0:13:39.680 omni-channel and unified commerce 0:13:36.800,0:13:41.360 and their shifts in the market and it's 0:13:39.680,0:13:42.639 interesting to see when people come with 0:13:41.360,0:13:45.040 fresh data 0:13:42.639,0:13:47.440 uh what's actually happening because 0:13:45.040,0:13:50.079 there are so many legacy brands that 0:13:47.440,0:13:51.680 have a hard time doing that stuff well 0:13:50.079,0:13:53.519 you know they've got old-fashioned point 0:13:51.680,0:13:55.519 of sale in their retail stores they've 0:13:53.519,0:13:56.560 got now these online sales channels that 0:13:55.519,0:13:58.800 don't really 0:13:56.560,0:13:59.920 connect well this year a lot of 0:13:58.800,0:14:02.480 companies have had 0:13:59.920,0:14:03.760 really no choice but to catch up to it 0:14:02.480,0:14:05.360 but we've known those and we've been 0:14:03.760,0:14:06.720 watching those trends for a long time so 0:14:05.360,0:14:08.720 i'll sit in for a lot of that but 0:14:06.720,0:14:10.720 sometimes there'll be 0:14:08.720,0:14:11.760 you know sessions that i you know as a 0:14:10.720,0:14:14.720 partnership 0:14:11.760,0:14:16.720 uh person i need to be out there 0:14:14.720,0:14:17.279 networking and i can't sit in on every 0:14:16.720,0:14:19.199 session 0:14:17.279,0:14:20.720 and so i kind of find that when i pick 0:14:19.199,0:14:21.600 those podcast episodes within the 0:14:20.720,0:14:24.480 industry that 0:14:21.600,0:14:26.639 i follow the same lines which may not be 0:14:24.480,0:14:27.920 what the merchants would choose 0:14:26.639,0:14:30.480 which is interesting you know that they 0:14:27.920,0:14:33.360 may be a lot more moved by listening to 0:14:30.480,0:14:34.720 other merchants up there on a panel 0:14:33.360,0:14:36.079 talking about their trials and 0:14:34.720,0:14:37.680 tribulations 0:14:36.079,0:14:39.120 where i've spent a lot of time with a 0:14:37.680,0:14:40.560 lot of merchants and heard a lot of 0:14:39.120,0:14:42.240 those stories 0:14:40.560,0:14:43.600 in some cases in more depth with some 0:14:42.240,0:14:46.720 more colorful words 0:14:43.600,0:14:48.399 behind closed doors right right about 0:14:46.720,0:14:49.279 things that have gone well and not gone 0:14:48.399,0:14:51.680 as well 0:14:49.279,0:14:52.800 yeah you know and i continue to and so i 0:14:51.680,0:14:54.639 think that that 0:14:52.800,0:14:56.320 um that's interesting that we all try to 0:14:54.639,0:14:58.959 figure out uh 0:14:56.320,0:15:00.079 what our interests are versus how we can 0:14:58.959,0:15:02.079 bring value 0:15:00.079,0:15:04.000 um to the larger market and those two 0:15:02.079,0:15:05.600 things just like everything else in our 0:15:04.000,0:15:08.160 industry are not the same 0:15:05.600,0:15:10.079 i feel that tension as well and i think 0:15:08.160,0:15:11.600 like again that the podcast that i like 0:15:10.079,0:15:14.880 the most 0:15:11.600,0:15:17.760 are the ones where the host is just 0:15:14.880,0:15:19.519 genuinely interested in the guests that 0:15:17.760,0:15:21.360 they bring on and the topics and 0:15:19.519,0:15:22.160 sometimes the topics will go a direction 0:15:21.360,0:15:24.000 that i'm not 0:15:22.160,0:15:25.920 really interested in and sometimes i'll 0:15:24.000,0:15:28.480 get interested in the topic because i'm 0:15:25.920,0:15:31.040 interested in the podcast 0:15:28.480,0:15:32.000 but i feel that tension of like trying 0:15:31.040,0:15:35.120 to do stuff 0:15:32.000,0:15:37.120 that is specific and valuable and 0:15:35.120,0:15:39.199 actionable to an audience 0:15:37.120,0:15:41.120 uh versus just the the type of 0:15:39.199,0:15:43.199 conversations i enjoy 0:15:41.120,0:15:45.279 like almost trying to recreate the 0:15:43.199,0:15:46.959 hallway track at a conference 0:15:45.279,0:15:48.560 um like when i'm at a conference and i'm 0:15:46.959,0:15:50.320 just talking to people like we you know 0:15:48.560,0:15:50.720 we've talked at new york and things like 0:15:50.320,0:15:53.279 that 0:15:50.720,0:15:54.639 and just random stuff whatever comes to 0:15:53.279,0:15:57.680 mind whether it's talking about 0:15:54.639,0:16:00.000 doing podcasts or talking about um 0:15:57.680,0:16:01.519 you know like the e-commerce vendor 0:16:00.000,0:16:03.040 space or whatever it may not be 0:16:01.519,0:16:06.240 actionable to a merchant 0:16:03.040,0:16:07.920 but it's like you kind of gotta um 0:16:06.240,0:16:09.519 focus on what you're interested in 0:16:07.920,0:16:10.800 otherwise you know 0:16:09.519,0:16:12.720 i i don't know i don't know if it'll 0:16:10.800,0:16:15.920 last you know well 0:16:12.720,0:16:17.120 and you know phrase that i use very 0:16:15.920,0:16:18.880 often is 0:16:17.120,0:16:20.639 you know in e-commerce it takes a 0:16:18.880,0:16:23.279 village that 0:16:20.639,0:16:24.079 to run a really strong ecommerce program 0:16:23.279,0:16:25.839 you've got 0:16:24.079,0:16:27.279 things that relate to payments and 0:16:25.839,0:16:29.440 shipping and taxes 0:16:27.279,0:16:30.399 on the checkout side and you've got 0:16:29.440,0:16:33.519 things you know 0:16:30.399,0:16:36.320 issues related to speed and security and 0:16:33.519,0:16:39.920 scalability on the hosting side and 0:16:36.320,0:16:42.160 um you've got uh you know front-end 0:16:39.920,0:16:44.880 communication and back-end communication 0:16:42.160,0:16:47.199 as it relates to things like live chat 0:16:44.880,0:16:48.959 on the front door um perhaps you know 0:16:47.199,0:16:50.959 email marketing and 0:16:48.959,0:16:52.639 multi-channel marketing on on the back 0:16:50.959,0:16:54.639 end to keep people coming back and 0:16:52.639,0:16:56.000 keep them engaged and you've got all 0:16:54.639,0:16:58.560 these things happening 0:16:56.000,0:17:00.320 and it's always changing so you know the 0:16:58.560,0:17:01.279 social media platforms that need to be 0:17:00.320,0:17:04.319 interconnected 0:17:01.279,0:17:04.880 the uh the way that shoppers are gonna 0:17:04.319,0:17:06.400 react 0:17:04.880,0:17:08.240 to marketing whether it comes to them 0:17:06.400,0:17:11.280 through an email versus let's say 0:17:08.240,0:17:14.240 sms which is an old conversation but uh 0:17:11.280,0:17:16.160 the numbers change and so as with 0:17:14.240,0:17:19.839 everything else in technology 0:17:16.160,0:17:21.839 either you stay ahead of it or you don't 0:17:19.839,0:17:23.199 so i i think even for those of us that 0:17:21.839,0:17:25.679 live and breathe it 0:17:23.199,0:17:26.400 we've got to put our heads together to 0:17:25.679,0:17:29.919 understand 0:17:26.400,0:17:31.840 where the trend lines are going and 0:17:29.919,0:17:33.520 we'll all individually see different 0:17:31.840,0:17:35.919 things based upon 0:17:33.520,0:17:37.919 where we are in the stream so with 0:17:35.919,0:17:39.919 hosting we see immediately 0:17:37.919,0:17:43.200 when there are increases in traffic and 0:17:39.919,0:17:45.280 demand on sites that's an obvious for us 0:17:43.200,0:17:47.039 but we don't necessarily see what the 0:17:45.280,0:17:47.919 marketing plans are or what the 0:17:47.039,0:17:50.080 investment is 0:17:47.919,0:17:52.720 into the site into what's coming next 0:17:50.080,0:17:56.559 until a little bit farther down the pike 0:17:52.720,0:18:00.080 in so many cases and so you know 0:17:56.559,0:18:01.600 what we kind of uh while anonymizing you 0:18:00.080,0:18:04.320 know well certainly uh 0:18:01.600,0:18:05.280 you know keeping confidentiality in play 0:18:04.320,0:18:08.640 we get to 0:18:05.280,0:18:10.720 learn and anticipate um and help uh 0:18:08.640,0:18:12.080 be thought leaders um you know at jet 0:18:10.720,0:18:14.400 rails a lot of our users 0:18:12.080,0:18:16.160 um you know come to us through their web 0:18:14.400,0:18:17.360 agencies that are building their sites 0:18:16.160,0:18:19.120 maintaining their sites 0:18:17.360,0:18:21.600 but a lot of their use a lot of our 0:18:19.120,0:18:22.720 users don't have an agency they have 0:18:21.600,0:18:25.039 in-house developers 0:18:22.720,0:18:26.080 and they're not at all those trade shows 0:18:25.039,0:18:27.840 and they don't always 0:18:26.080,0:18:29.360 have all those contacts and so they'll 0:18:27.840,0:18:32.559 actually uh 0:18:29.360,0:18:34.080 lean on us and our partner network um 0:18:32.559,0:18:35.520 and you know what we're doing they'll 0:18:34.080,0:18:37.679 even send us to trade shows with 0:18:35.520,0:18:41.520 questions to ask 0:18:37.679,0:18:43.280 so you know it's an interesting place to 0:18:41.520,0:18:45.760 sit 0:18:43.280,0:18:46.400 and like i say because it's always 0:18:45.760,0:18:50.000 changing 0:18:46.400,0:18:52.240 um you really can't afford to sit it out 0:18:50.000,0:18:53.679 and i think it's really um smart what 0:18:52.240,0:18:54.240 you're doing like you said there's no 0:18:53.679,0:18:57.760 direct 0:18:54.240,0:19:00.320 jet rails ads on the podcast 0:18:57.760,0:19:02.400 and you just talk to a variety of people 0:19:00.320,0:19:03.120 from vendors to agencies and things like 0:19:02.400,0:19:04.559 that 0:19:03.120,0:19:07.039 and just talk about the things that 0:19:04.559,0:19:09.200 you're interested in and stuff like that 0:19:07.039,0:19:10.640 um you know i have some hosting 0:19:09.200,0:19:11.760 companies that i'm friendly with and 0:19:10.640,0:19:14.320 stuff like that but i've 0:19:11.760,0:19:15.760 i've heard uh recently a couple of 0:19:14.320,0:19:17.360 people using they just mentioned they 0:19:15.760,0:19:19.440 were using jet rails 0:19:17.360,0:19:21.440 and you know i've seen your content 0:19:19.440,0:19:23.440 bubbling up and stuff like that 0:19:21.440,0:19:25.520 and um you know that's kind of the way 0:19:23.440,0:19:26.320 it works like you hear a couple of times 0:19:25.520,0:19:28.480 about 0:19:26.320,0:19:29.360 um somebody getting used by somebody you 0:19:28.480,0:19:31.760 know 0:19:29.360,0:19:32.480 um and then you go okay interesting like 0:19:31.760,0:19:34.400 that you know 0:19:32.480,0:19:37.200 and then those data points start to add 0:19:34.400,0:19:38.640 up and you go like all right this is uh 0:19:37.200,0:19:40.320 you know they they probably are doing a 0:19:38.640,0:19:42.880 good job of it um 0:19:40.320,0:19:44.240 so i think it's it's smart the way 0:19:42.880,0:19:47.600 you're handling it 0:19:44.240,0:19:49.840 well again you know much appreciated 0:19:47.600,0:19:51.360 uh you know we always hope that the 0:19:49.840,0:19:52.640 strategies work out in the long run 0:19:51.360,0:19:53.120 because a lot of these things you know 0:19:52.640,0:19:57.039 when you 0:19:53.120,0:19:59.840 go out there creating content and uh 0:19:57.039,0:20:00.559 and not everything goes viral not 0:19:59.840,0:20:03.120 everything 0:20:00.559,0:20:04.720 is gonna be a home run um not every 0:20:03.120,0:20:07.200 interview is gonna be 0:20:04.720,0:20:09.520 is to have the the biggest impact or 0:20:07.200,0:20:12.000 attract the largest audience 0:20:09.520,0:20:12.880 and so you know if you go at it with a 0:20:12.000,0:20:14.559 mindset of 0:20:12.880,0:20:16.320 i'm going to really just you know give 0:20:14.559,0:20:19.600 it my all and do something 0:20:16.320,0:20:21.200 really valuable over time 0:20:19.600,0:20:22.640 generally these kind of strategies work 0:20:21.200,0:20:23.520 i think it's the same for these same 0:20:22.640,0:20:25.679 businesses for 0:20:23.520,0:20:26.799 for these e-commerce businesses when 0:20:25.679,0:20:28.960 they think about 0:20:26.799,0:20:31.440 their own strategies and so you know you 0:20:28.960,0:20:33.679 don't write a blog post a quarter 0:20:31.440,0:20:36.240 and expect to really move the needle on 0:20:33.679,0:20:38.480 your marketing machine 0:20:36.240,0:20:40.400 at the same time you don't want to flood 0:20:38.480,0:20:43.280 uh all of your channels 0:20:40.400,0:20:43.919 with a lot of not to put it in too 0:20:43.280,0:20:47.200 negative 0:20:43.919,0:20:50.080 a term but meat content that really 0:20:47.200,0:20:50.799 isn't as impactful and won't serve the 0:20:50.080,0:20:53.120 user 0:20:50.799,0:20:54.080 in you know the shopper or whomever else 0:20:53.120,0:20:57.360 in the same way 0:20:54.080,0:21:00.080 so it's finding um a lot of that balance 0:20:57.360,0:21:01.600 and you know for jet rails as a brand i 0:21:00.080,0:21:03.120 think that we're in a really unique 0:21:01.600,0:21:06.159 space 0:21:03.120,0:21:08.400 there are a limited number of uh of web 0:21:06.159,0:21:09.760 hosts that really do specialize in the 0:21:08.400,0:21:12.960 e-commerce 0:21:09.760,0:21:15.039 world in the way that we do and a lot of 0:21:12.960,0:21:17.120 those companies focus on smb 0:21:15.039,0:21:18.320 on shared or multi-tenant hosting where 0:21:17.120,0:21:20.320 we're really 0:21:18.320,0:21:22.080 all about dedicated hosting single 0:21:20.320,0:21:24.960 tenant environments whether 0:21:22.080,0:21:25.679 uh on servers or on the cloud and so 0:21:24.960,0:21:27.120 we're already 0:21:25.679,0:21:29.360 speaking to a little bit of a different 0:21:27.120,0:21:31.600 market segment and some now for 0:21:29.360,0:21:32.480 our podcast our blog a lot of the 0:21:31.600,0:21:35.600 content 0:21:32.480,0:21:36.559 is useful for you know anyone uh in the 0:21:35.600,0:21:39.280 space 0:21:36.559,0:21:40.320 however we do focus a little bit more 0:21:39.280,0:21:43.039 toward that uh 0:21:40.320,0:21:44.000 that more established uh market of 0:21:43.039,0:21:45.360 businesses that 0:21:44.000,0:21:46.640 they've probably dabbled in some of 0:21:45.360,0:21:48.480 these things they've they're probably 0:21:46.640,0:21:50.559 doing something already and they could 0:21:48.480,0:21:52.000 use information to hone their strategy 0:21:50.559,0:21:55.120 or to to 0:21:52.000,0:21:56.720 you know pick it up a few a few knots 0:21:55.120,0:21:59.039 there's a few pegs 0:21:56.720,0:22:01.039 put it in overdrive and and so i think 0:21:59.039,0:22:03.520 that that's also a differentiator there 0:22:01.039,0:22:05.760 are a lot of podcasts that focus on 0:22:03.520,0:22:07.600 how to get started in e-commerce and 0:22:05.760,0:22:09.679 we're really more focused on how to 0:22:07.600,0:22:11.360 thrive with the e-commerce channels that 0:22:09.679,0:22:14.480 you've already been 0:22:11.360,0:22:16.880 building and engaging with what um 0:22:14.480,0:22:19.120 what type of uh customers are ideal for 0:22:16.880,0:22:21.919 you guys as far as 0:22:19.120,0:22:23.679 the size the scale you know the type of 0:22:21.919,0:22:25.600 needs that that they would have as a 0:22:23.679,0:22:29.039 merchant 0:22:25.600,0:22:31.600 so you know we do 0:22:29.039,0:22:33.120 service a few platforms if you want to 0:22:31.600,0:22:36.000 think about it that way 0:22:33.120,0:22:37.840 so magento is our number one by far uh 0:22:36.000,0:22:40.159 but we're partnered with big commerce to 0:22:37.840,0:22:42.640 service users that 0:22:40.159,0:22:44.559 go headless and have a different front 0:22:42.640,0:22:47.840 end 0:22:44.559,0:22:49.600 running side by side with bigcommerce 0:22:47.840,0:22:51.360 we can also host custom apps and so 0:22:49.600,0:22:53.280 whether that's for shopify users or 0:22:51.360,0:22:55.520 bigcommerce or elsewhere 0:22:53.280,0:22:58.240 so all that certainly applies anyone 0:22:55.520,0:23:00.320 that's basically in need of linux uh 0:22:58.240,0:23:02.400 based hosting whether that's you know 0:23:00.320,0:23:04.240 woocommerce x card prestashop but like i 0:23:02.400,0:23:06.000 say we found a huge alignment in the 0:23:04.240,0:23:07.280 magento community it's where we're most 0:23:06.000,0:23:10.240 active 0:23:07.280,0:23:12.720 outside of of that we service some some 0:23:10.240,0:23:15.600 larger drupal and wordpress sites 0:23:12.720,0:23:16.720 um and again some completely custom uh 0:23:15.600,0:23:19.200 sites that that uh 0:23:16.720,0:23:20.159 really thrive in a linux environment so 0:23:19.200,0:23:22.880 in terms of 0:23:20.159,0:23:24.480 you know who we're servicing the 0:23:22.880,0:23:27.280 technology stack is 0:23:24.480,0:23:27.760 generally where it starts um from there 0:23:27.280,0:23:30.480 you know 0:23:27.760,0:23:30.799 our team has clients around the globe 0:23:30.480,0:23:32.799 but 0:23:30.799,0:23:34.640 most of them are here in north america 0:23:32.799,0:23:36.880 uh so you'll see a lot of our 0:23:34.640,0:23:38.640 marketing efforts um you know we're 0:23:36.880,0:23:39.200 focused on the english-speaking markets 0:23:38.640,0:23:41.520 where 0:23:39.200,0:23:44.000 uh you know speaking uh about and and 0:23:41.520,0:23:46.080 with uh american and canadian businesses 0:23:44.000,0:23:47.679 and um that's where a larger part of our 0:23:46.080,0:23:49.520 focus is even though we've got some some 0:23:47.679,0:23:50.320 great clients and great partners around 0:23:49.520,0:23:53.919 the globe 0:23:50.320,0:23:55.200 in terms of size and scale i said we 0:23:53.919,0:23:57.360 typically start with 0:23:55.200,0:23:58.320 uh you know dedicated server and our 0:23:57.360,0:24:01.120 larger users 0:23:58.320,0:24:03.360 we deploy auto scaling environments with 0:24:01.120,0:24:05.600 aws 0:24:03.360,0:24:06.400 we can also uh help people with digital 0:24:05.600,0:24:09.600 ocean 0:24:06.400,0:24:13.039 and so when we 0:24:09.600,0:24:14.240 think about that you're typically at a 0:24:13.039,0:24:15.440 certain point you're either an 0:24:14.240,0:24:17.520 established company 0:24:15.440,0:24:20.000 that has a site that you really care 0:24:17.520,0:24:24.000 about the speed the scalability 0:24:20.000,0:24:26.400 the security the the overall um 0:24:24.000,0:24:27.919 the overall metrics uh you know that are 0:24:26.400,0:24:32.000 going to be important to you of course 0:24:27.919,0:24:34.080 scalability or you need more flexibility 0:24:32.000,0:24:36.080 so we actually see a lot of users that 0:24:34.080,0:24:37.440 um come over from places like magento's 0:24:36.080,0:24:40.000 commerce cloud 0:24:37.440,0:24:40.640 where that's a more rigid environment 0:24:40.000,0:24:42.240 and 0:24:40.640,0:24:45.039 you know it's it's certainly a growing 0:24:42.240,0:24:47.039 market but they're going to be 0:24:45.039,0:24:48.960 you know those segment of users that 0:24:47.039,0:24:50.159 need a higher touch support that need 0:24:48.960,0:24:52.000 more flexibility 0:24:50.159,0:24:53.440 and tailoring and optimization in the 0:24:52.000,0:24:55.200 environment itself 0:24:53.440,0:24:56.640 and so we complement well within the 0:24:55.200,0:24:57.600 market rather than see that as a 0:24:56.640,0:25:00.240 competitor 0:24:57.600,0:25:02.400 we really see ourselves as segmented and 0:25:00.240,0:25:04.559 differentiated 0:25:02.400,0:25:05.840 where i think you know some others see 0:25:04.559,0:25:08.960 it as more of a head-on 0:25:05.840,0:25:11.279 competition for us 0:25:08.960,0:25:12.960 we know vis-a-vis members of magento's 0:25:11.279,0:25:15.360 team that they need us there 0:25:12.960,0:25:16.400 to be able to service that segment 0:25:15.360,0:25:19.840 that's not a fit 0:25:16.400,0:25:20.480 for for commerce cloud and um and so we 0:25:19.840,0:25:21.919 do see 0:25:20.480,0:25:25.039 these different things so it'll go from 0:25:21.919,0:25:26.720 that um that more established magento 0:25:25.039,0:25:30.480 open source or other 0:25:26.720,0:25:32.000 uh open source site that's doing 0:25:30.480,0:25:33.840 typically on on average into the 0:25:32.000,0:25:36.720 millions in online revenue 0:25:33.840,0:25:38.320 uh and you know we service companies 0:25:36.720,0:25:40.799 that are in the billions in 0:25:38.320,0:25:42.000 in revenue and so there's really the 0:25:40.799,0:25:44.640 sky's the limit 0:25:42.000,0:25:45.600 on the upper side of it and a lot of 0:25:44.640,0:25:48.240 folks really they 0:25:45.600,0:25:49.440 they come to us for a more holistic 0:25:48.240,0:25:52.159 approach to it 0:25:49.440,0:25:53.200 we do so everything that we do uh 0:25:52.159,0:25:55.279 generally speaking 0:25:53.200,0:25:56.320 and we do have like consulting services 0:25:55.279,0:25:58.480 outside of just 0:25:56.320,0:25:59.919 managing someone's hosting but a 0:25:58.480,0:26:00.960 majority of our users come to us for 0:25:59.919,0:26:02.640 fully managed 0:26:00.960,0:26:04.400 highly optimized hosting where we're 0:26:02.640,0:26:05.760 doing the all the 0:26:04.400,0:26:08.080 maintenance and management and 0:26:05.760,0:26:09.919 monitoring we're taking care of 0:26:08.080,0:26:11.760 the content delivery network the web 0:26:09.919,0:26:14.320 application firewalling intrusion 0:26:11.760,0:26:17.760 detection systems malware scanning 0:26:14.320,0:26:18.960 caching layers um you know off server 0:26:17.760,0:26:23.120 backups and 0:26:18.960,0:26:24.880 dns and you know goes 0:26:23.120,0:26:26.480 it feels like every month you know 0:26:24.880,0:26:27.360 there's something else that's in the 0:26:26.480,0:26:29.840 stack 0:26:27.360,0:26:31.120 um not necessarily because there wasn't 0:26:29.840,0:26:32.480 already enough but 0:26:31.120,0:26:34.720 going back to that thought that the 0:26:32.480,0:26:37.600 technology is is always 0:26:34.720,0:26:38.000 uh improving and um you know that we 0:26:37.600,0:26:40.720 want to make 0:26:38.000,0:26:42.080 sure that our users basically can sleep 0:26:40.720,0:26:44.159 well at night knowing that that's taken 0:26:42.080,0:26:45.440 care of they can focus on 0:26:44.159,0:26:46.480 growing their business and they don't 0:26:45.440,0:26:47.760 have to worry as much about the 0:26:46.480,0:26:49.360 infrastructure 0:26:47.760,0:26:51.360 we have a knock a network operations 0:26:49.360,0:26:53.919 center and we're monitoring 0:26:51.360,0:26:55.200 these systems 24 7. so typically if 0:26:53.919,0:26:56.880 there is an issue 0:26:55.200,0:26:58.159 we're going to know first we're going to 0:26:56.880,0:27:00.880 alert the customer we're going to be 0:26:58.159,0:27:04.640 working together on mitigation 0:27:00.880,0:27:07.919 as opposed to the the more 0:27:04.640,0:27:08.320 you know reactive style hosting that so 0:27:07.919,0:27:10.559 many 0:27:08.320,0:27:12.080 are accustomed to where you're basically 0:27:10.559,0:27:13.679 given a prefab environment 0:27:12.080,0:27:15.520 and you're told here make your 0:27:13.679,0:27:17.039 application work within this if you need 0:27:15.520,0:27:18.559 us we're over here 0:27:17.039,0:27:20.799 we take the opposite approach and we 0:27:18.559,0:27:22.159 start by sizing them out 0:27:20.799,0:27:24.640 making sure that they get the right 0:27:22.159,0:27:26.559 environment for their particular needs 0:27:24.640,0:27:28.640 optimizing around their application and 0:27:26.559,0:27:31.919 going through a user acceptance testing 0:27:28.640,0:27:34.080 procedure and 0:27:31.919,0:27:36.000 and from there continuing to stay on 0:27:34.080,0:27:37.520 with dedicated account management and 0:27:36.000,0:27:39.600 other resources that are helping to 0:27:37.520,0:27:42.320 track success and make sure that 0:27:39.600,0:27:43.840 things stay healthy so like uh you know 0:27:42.320,0:27:46.240 recently there 0:27:43.840,0:27:47.679 there was uh an attack on magento one 0:27:46.240,0:27:50.720 site's card bleed 0:27:47.679,0:27:51.840 and we saw a lot of hosts including big 0:27:50.720,0:27:55.600 names um 0:27:51.840,0:27:58.880 with slews of sites that were impacted 0:27:55.600,0:28:01.360 our security held steadfast 0:27:58.880,0:28:02.640 and so our network remained in good 0:28:01.360,0:28:05.279 standing against that 0:28:02.640,0:28:06.559 attack and uh my you know security 0:28:05.279,0:28:08.000 diligence 0:28:06.559,0:28:10.240 yeah my understanding on that one is 0:28:08.000,0:28:12.960 that it was related to the downloader 0:28:10.240,0:28:14.159 um having the downloader uh package 0:28:12.960,0:28:16.880 directory in there 0:28:14.159,0:28:18.480 and that like most most people that are 0:28:16.880,0:28:20.640 paying attention to their best practices 0:28:18.480,0:28:22.320 are going to already have that disabled 0:28:20.640,0:28:24.240 um is that something you guys kind of 0:28:22.320,0:28:26.480 have disabled across the boards 0:28:24.240,0:28:28.240 so that's precisely it that we don't 0:28:26.480,0:28:30.080 know why anyone would allow 0:28:28.240,0:28:33.120 the outside world to get to the 0:28:30.080,0:28:35.039 downloader folder or the magento admin 0:28:33.120,0:28:36.640 whether on you know magento one magenta 0:28:35.039,0:28:39.600 two the same would apply for other 0:28:36.640,0:28:40.640 cms platforms that that should be 0:28:39.600,0:28:43.120 whitelist 0:28:40.640,0:28:45.039 access only um it should be you know 0:28:43.120,0:28:46.559 firewalled and locked down 0:28:45.039,0:28:47.760 there are certainly lots of other assets 0:28:46.559,0:28:49.840 like that and if you're paying attention 0:28:47.760,0:28:53.440 to pci and other compliance 0:28:49.840,0:28:55.440 those things are important but 0:28:53.440,0:28:57.039 if within give or take a weekend 0:28:55.440,0:28:57.679 something like two or three thousand 0:28:57.039,0:29:01.039 sites were 0:28:57.679,0:29:02.399 impacted uh you know that says that even 0:29:01.039,0:29:05.679 though a lot of folks are 0:29:02.399,0:29:08.480 watching these things not everyone is 0:29:05.679,0:29:10.399 um and so i think one of the things that 0:29:08.480,0:29:12.399 jet rail's customers appreciate is that 0:29:10.399,0:29:15.600 they don't have this piecemeal 0:29:12.399,0:29:17.600 uh impact where they're expected to go 0:29:15.600,0:29:18.159 get their own firewalling and have their 0:29:17.600,0:29:20.000 own 0:29:18.159,0:29:21.360 malware scans and intrusion detection 0:29:20.000,0:29:24.159 all these other things 0:29:21.360,0:29:24.799 uh one by one and we know in in the 0:29:24.159,0:29:26.399 industry 0:29:24.799,0:29:28.080 that a lot of the major security 0:29:26.399,0:29:29.520 incidents that we all read about in the 0:29:28.080,0:29:31.440 news 0:29:29.520,0:29:33.840 they happen not because these big 0:29:31.440,0:29:35.360 companies don't have good security 0:29:33.840,0:29:36.320 systems to alert them when something's 0:29:35.360,0:29:37.679 happening 0:29:36.320,0:29:39.679 it's because nobody's watching those 0:29:37.679,0:29:41.600 systems so you know what 0:29:39.679,0:29:43.200 target home depot whomever it is you 0:29:41.600,0:29:45.120 know they uh 0:29:43.200,0:29:46.240 they're getting alerts but no one's 0:29:45.120,0:29:48.080 acting on it 0:29:46.240,0:29:49.840 and so that's an equally important part 0:29:48.080,0:29:52.000 of the process so 0:29:49.840,0:29:52.880 uh you know whether it's for our users 0:29:52.000,0:29:55.760 that are are still 0:29:52.880,0:29:57.840 on magenta one um and have unique 0:29:55.760,0:30:00.080 security needs as a result 0:29:57.840,0:30:02.880 um whether it's for folks that are on 0:30:00.080,0:30:06.640 fully supported platforms 0:30:02.880,0:30:08.159 when left to their own devices security 0:30:06.640,0:30:10.000 a lot of these businesses don't have a 0:30:08.159,0:30:12.320 chief security officer 0:30:10.000,0:30:14.320 or you know someone that's in charge of 0:30:12.320,0:30:16.880 compliance 0:30:14.320,0:30:18.559 they benefit from having a team that's 0:30:16.880,0:30:19.919 going to handle it more holistically and 0:30:18.559,0:30:21.520 so that's 0:30:19.919,0:30:24.080 i think part of where the industry is 0:30:21.520,0:30:25.440 headed um in general is 0:30:24.080,0:30:27.279 looking for that you know we've 0:30:25.440,0:30:29.120 certainly found that it's been really 0:30:27.279,0:30:31.120 well received in market 0:30:29.120,0:30:32.880 nice i i mean i have to say i think 0:30:31.120,0:30:33.760 you're very diplomatic the way you 0:30:32.880,0:30:36.640 described 0:30:33.760,0:30:38.080 the magento cloud situation uh well i 0:30:36.640,0:30:39.600 don't have to use it on a day-to-day 0:30:38.080,0:30:41.279 basis so 0:30:39.600,0:30:42.640 you know i can't speak from first-hand 0:30:41.279,0:30:45.919 experience i know that 0:30:42.640,0:30:46.799 i saw a video recently from uh you might 0:30:45.919,0:30:50.000 have seen 0:30:46.799,0:30:52.720 yeah mark put out a good one which i 0:30:50.000,0:30:54.320 think you know shared his personal views 0:30:52.720,0:30:56.480 and frustrations 0:30:54.320,0:30:57.440 i talked to a lot of agencies we have a 0:30:56.480,0:31:00.240 lot of uh 0:30:57.440,0:31:02.559 partners that are that happen to also be 0:31:00.240,0:31:04.720 magento partners 0:31:02.559,0:31:05.919 and they share a lot of the same 0:31:04.720,0:31:08.240 frustrations 0:31:05.919,0:31:10.159 uh i spoke to one this morning uh to an 0:31:08.240,0:31:10.880 agency that's that's not yet a jet rails 0:31:10.159,0:31:14.080 partner 0:31:10.880,0:31:15.600 um but that was describing exactly the 0:31:14.080,0:31:17.200 same thing that you know when they they 0:31:15.600,0:31:18.880 bring a merchant to magento they'll 0:31:17.200,0:31:20.799 advise the the merchant 0:31:18.880,0:31:22.720 on how to try to negotiate for an 0:31:20.799,0:31:23.840 on-prem license at a more reasonable 0:31:22.720,0:31:26.440 price 0:31:23.840,0:31:27.679 because if they don't go in on licensed 0:31:26.440,0:31:30.880 negotiation 0:31:27.679,0:31:31.679 yeah well the you know i think the way 0:31:30.880,0:31:33.440 that some people 0:31:31.679,0:31:35.519 have described it it's almost like if 0:31:33.440,0:31:39.120 the magento sales team member 0:31:35.519,0:31:40.640 goes back uh to the sales management 0:31:39.120,0:31:42.080 team there with a piece of paper that 0:31:40.640,0:31:44.840 says on-prem they're gonna have to do 0:31:42.080,0:31:47.440 the walk of shame 0:31:44.840,0:31:49.840 right you know to us 0:31:47.440,0:31:51.840 i i think that you know we recognize 0:31:49.840,0:31:53.840 that adobe made a major acquisition in 0:31:51.840,0:31:56.399 magenta we recognize that 0:31:53.840,0:31:56.960 uh they are a major player in the space 0:31:56.399,0:32:00.399 and will 0:31:56.960,0:32:02.799 continue to be and so re and 0:32:00.399,0:32:05.120 we're thankful um for our role in the 0:32:02.799,0:32:07.039 magento ecosystem and in the community 0:32:05.120,0:32:08.480 uh our goal is not to butt heads our 0:32:07.039,0:32:12.240 goal is not to 0:32:08.480,0:32:16.799 um be inflammatory or or to go um 0:32:12.240,0:32:19.120 go at it uh in an adversarial way 0:32:16.799,0:32:21.120 there's enough out there for us um we're 0:32:19.120,0:32:22.960 quite you know happy with our growth 0:32:21.120,0:32:25.279 trajectory 0:32:22.960,0:32:26.799 and uh you know we know that the magento 0:32:25.279,0:32:28.159 team will continue to strive for a 0:32:26.799,0:32:30.320 better product 0:32:28.159,0:32:32.240 i don't think that they'll catch up to 0:32:30.320,0:32:33.519 us anytime soon when it comes to the 0:32:32.240,0:32:35.200 service layer i mean we pick up the 0:32:33.519,0:32:36.240 phone within 10 seconds for anything and 0:32:35.200,0:32:38.159 everything and about 0:32:36.240,0:32:40.480 90 of the time the first person to pick 0:32:38.159,0:32:42.799 up the phone is going to be the person 0:32:40.480,0:32:44.080 that resolves whatever requests or issue 0:32:42.799,0:32:45.600 we cut out a lot of that 0:32:44.080,0:32:47.440 kicking the can kind of stuff it's the 0:32:45.600,0:32:47.919 same with tickets 15 minute response 0:32:47.440,0:32:49.360 time 0:32:47.919,0:32:51.120 about 90 percent of the time first 0:32:49.360,0:32:52.399 person to touch the ticket is going to 0:32:51.120,0:32:55.679 resolve whatever it is 0:32:52.399,0:32:57.679 it's a much more holistic support uh 0:32:55.679,0:32:59.600 you know i i don't think that they're 0:32:57.679,0:33:00.480 going to aim for that they're a software 0:32:59.600,0:33:02.720 company 0:33:00.480,0:33:03.679 they're not known as a service company i 0:33:02.720,0:33:04.960 think they're going to put out more 0:33:03.679,0:33:06.720 tools 0:33:04.960,0:33:08.720 and it's going to continue to be a more 0:33:06.720,0:33:10.720 self-service experience and i think it 0:33:08.720,0:33:12.480 will continue to get better 0:33:10.720,0:33:14.320 we know that we've been winning when it 0:33:12.480,0:33:16.159 comes to the larger auto scaling where 0:33:14.320,0:33:18.320 we're elastic we don't just 0:33:16.159,0:33:20.000 add cpu and ram and resource we 0:33:18.320,0:33:20.640 automatically spin up more web nodes we 0:33:20.000,0:33:24.080 can 0:33:20.640,0:33:27.440 really really uh you know handle some 0:33:24.080,0:33:29.360 uh you know humongous use cases 0:33:27.440,0:33:30.559 um where they've been working toward 0:33:29.360,0:33:32.240 those things um 0:33:30.559,0:33:33.840 you know we've been there for a long 0:33:32.240,0:33:35.600 time and so i 0:33:33.840,0:33:37.760 i think that there are these nuances to 0:33:35.600,0:33:39.440 it and there's also folks that need 0:33:37.760,0:33:40.960 hipaa compliance or that are in a 0:33:39.440,0:33:43.279 category like cbd 0:33:40.960,0:33:45.200 or that don't fit within the confines of 0:33:43.279,0:33:47.360 what they intend to provide 0:33:45.200,0:33:49.519 as they've gone to market you know i'm 0:33:47.360,0:33:52.000 sure things may evolve but 0:33:49.519,0:33:52.960 uh they need folks like us to be able to 0:33:52.000,0:33:54.799 handle 0:33:52.960,0:33:56.159 um that other side of the market that 0:33:54.799,0:33:56.960 needs something more custom that also 0:33:56.159,0:33:59.440 includes 0:33:56.960,0:34:02.399 if you were to go to the magento 0:33:59.440,0:34:04.399 marketplace you're going to see 0:34:02.399,0:34:06.799 west i saw hundreds of extensions that 0:34:04.399,0:34:08.560 work for magento uh 0:34:06.799,0:34:09.760 magento commerce but not magento 0:34:08.560,0:34:11.119 commerce cloud at least they're not 0:34:09.760,0:34:13.040 certified as such 0:34:11.119,0:34:15.200 and we know that lots of software like 0:34:13.040,0:34:17.280 wordpress which is very common in the 0:34:15.200,0:34:19.119 magento ecosystem which has its own 0:34:17.280,0:34:19.599 security needs and its own challenges 0:34:19.119,0:34:22.079 but 0:34:19.599,0:34:22.800 software like that is not intended to 0:34:22.079,0:34:25.119 run 0:34:22.800,0:34:27.520 in commerce cloud and generally speaking 0:34:25.119,0:34:31.440 you know as far as i know can't 0:34:27.520,0:34:33.679 uh it's it's not part of the terms there 0:34:31.440,0:34:35.119 where we can spin up the right resources 0:34:33.679,0:34:38.240 and handle 0:34:35.119,0:34:40.079 those needs of organizations that have 0:34:38.240,0:34:42.000 different resources and keep it all 0:34:40.079,0:34:44.960 under one roof and in a way that 0:34:42.000,0:34:46.800 is advantageous to the user so there's a 0:34:44.960,0:34:49.359 lot of those moving parts 0:34:46.800,0:34:50.879 that are gonna point someone from one 0:34:49.359,0:34:52.800 place to another 0:34:50.879,0:34:55.119 um and the same way that we would 0:34:52.800,0:34:56.000 differentiate when we were looking at 0:34:55.119,0:34:58.960 other players 0:34:56.000,0:35:00.000 uh in the market that certainly um 0:34:58.960,0:35:01.599 strive for 0:35:00.000,0:35:03.760 a higher level service i happen to think 0:35:01.599,0:35:05.280 that our team is second to none i i work 0:35:03.760,0:35:07.359 with some amazing people 0:35:05.280,0:35:08.640 um but i know that there are users that 0:35:07.359,0:35:11.760 are perfectly happy 0:35:08.640,0:35:14.079 other places and um you know 0:35:11.760,0:35:15.520 in that sense um we know we have strong 0:35:14.079,0:35:18.240 competition in the market 0:35:15.520,0:35:18.960 and we've got our eye on the ball and i 0:35:18.240,0:35:20.800 think 0:35:18.960,0:35:22.400 for us um you know one of the things 0:35:20.800,0:35:24.400 that i really enjoy 0:35:22.400,0:35:27.040 uh like with magenta one end of life we 0:35:24.400,0:35:30.000 partnered with mage1 and openmage 0:35:27.040,0:35:32.079 and focused on folks that we're going to 0:35:30.000,0:35:34.880 provide patches and we partner 0:35:32.079,0:35:35.599 with cloudflare and sakuri and sansec 0:35:34.880,0:35:37.599 and 0:35:35.599,0:35:39.440 lots of great companies that are going 0:35:37.599,0:35:42.000 to bring value to these users whether 0:35:39.440,0:35:43.920 for security or speed or other needs 0:35:42.000,0:35:45.760 as opposed to trying to do it all under 0:35:43.920,0:35:49.359 one roof and be the best at 0:35:45.760,0:35:53.119 everything which is difficult at best 0:35:49.359,0:35:56.320 you know keeping my diplomatic hat on uh 0:35:53.119,0:35:58.240 and so that's also a differentiator for 0:35:56.320,0:36:00.079 us is that our users get to choose from 0:35:58.240,0:36:01.839 best in class and so 0:36:00.079,0:36:03.359 they might have a preference of a 0:36:01.839,0:36:06.480 certain cdn 0:36:03.359,0:36:08.240 um or a certain waf or something else in 0:36:06.480,0:36:10.079 the stack and generally speaking uh you 0:36:08.240,0:36:10.960 know our team is 0:36:10.079,0:36:13.200 going to have some strong 0:36:10.960,0:36:15.200 recommendations but will accommodate um 0:36:13.200,0:36:18.560 and will accommodate successfully 0:36:15.200,0:36:21.839 uh it's we're built for it 0:36:18.560,0:36:23.200 it is a flexible stack so there's a lot 0:36:21.839,0:36:26.480 of that happening 0:36:23.200,0:36:28.160 um in market where i i think for healthy 0:36:26.480,0:36:30.160 business reasons a lot of businesses 0:36:28.160,0:36:33.440 have gone on the opposite approach it's 0:36:30.160,0:36:34.079 how do we tamp this down as much as we 0:36:33.440,0:36:37.680 can 0:36:34.079,0:36:40.640 and make it less flexible 0:36:37.680,0:36:41.520 to keep down the support costs to keep 0:36:40.640,0:36:44.880 maintenance 0:36:41.520,0:36:45.760 very uniform to give everyone basically 0:36:44.880,0:36:48.320 the same 0:36:45.760,0:36:50.079 uh you know the same stamp of approval 0:36:48.320,0:36:51.280 on their pci compliance and other things 0:36:50.079,0:36:53.599 where 0:36:51.280,0:36:54.640 for us we know that users today that are 0:36:53.599,0:36:56.400 choosing 0:36:54.640,0:36:58.880 platforms like magento that are open 0:36:56.400,0:37:00.800 source uh 0:36:58.880,0:37:02.480 i like to say that they're snowflakes no 0:37:00.800,0:37:04.240 two are alike 0:37:02.480,0:37:05.920 they are unique they want to be unique 0:37:04.240,0:37:07.599 they want that flexibility that's where 0:37:05.920,0:37:08.560 they're choosing the platform and so we 0:37:07.599,0:37:11.680 lean in 0:37:08.560,0:37:14.560 on that heavier service layer yeah 0:37:11.680,0:37:16.000 yeah i i i'm having a hard time i've 0:37:14.560,0:37:17.520 been thinking about this the last week 0:37:16.000,0:37:19.599 or two because 0:37:17.520,0:37:21.280 i've heard several times in a row from 0:37:19.599,0:37:22.160 people about issues with cloud and i 0:37:21.280,0:37:23.520 think it's it's 0:37:22.160,0:37:25.280 it's good like you said you're trying 0:37:23.520,0:37:28.000 not to be adversarial 0:37:25.280,0:37:30.079 um but i go back and forth between part 0:37:28.000,0:37:32.560 of me wants to 0:37:30.079,0:37:34.560 raise these issues and and and scream it 0:37:32.560,0:37:35.920 from the rooftops and be like guys there 0:37:34.560,0:37:36.880 are some things you got to really pay 0:37:35.920,0:37:38.880 attention to 0:37:36.880,0:37:40.720 and the other part of me is like listen 0:37:38.880,0:37:42.640 i'm going to just 0:37:40.720,0:37:43.760 uh you know i'm going to just not talk 0:37:42.640,0:37:46.960 about it let it go 0:37:43.760,0:37:48.640 and just assume that they're not going 0:37:46.960,0:37:49.119 to do the greatest job with certain 0:37:48.640,0:37:51.920 things 0:37:49.119,0:37:53.680 because i i don't i don't want to be i'm 0:37:51.920,0:37:54.800 working on being less negative i don't 0:37:53.680,0:37:56.960 want to be 0:37:54.800,0:37:59.200 like overly negative and like 0:37:56.960,0:38:01.680 inflammatory and stuff like that 0:37:59.200,0:38:03.119 um i like that my name is still not 0:38:01.680,0:38:06.880 quite mud and that i 0:38:03.119,0:38:08.079 um i'm still welcome uh in most circles 0:38:06.880,0:38:10.480 and places and i 0:38:08.079,0:38:11.760 intend to keep it that way not because i 0:38:10.480,0:38:15.200 need to be 0:38:11.760,0:38:17.440 uh you know loved in some way but 0:38:15.200,0:38:19.359 uh because i think there's a lot more 0:38:17.440,0:38:20.160 for us all to gain as a community 0:38:19.359,0:38:23.760 especially as an 0:38:20.160,0:38:25.599 open source community by having open 0:38:23.760,0:38:27.760 dialogue and by communicating 0:38:25.599,0:38:30.079 effectively in healthy 0:38:27.760,0:38:30.880 ways that move the needle there are 0:38:30.079,0:38:32.960 people within 0:38:30.880,0:38:35.040 the magento ecosystem that work for 0:38:32.960,0:38:36.640 adobe that i have check-ins with and 0:38:35.040,0:38:37.599 that we share feedback including from 0:38:36.640,0:38:40.640 merchants 0:38:37.599,0:38:44.000 um i've had merchants tell us that the 0:38:40.640,0:38:46.000 uh the sales team at adobe will 0:38:44.000,0:38:47.599 say things and you know they call our 0:38:46.000,0:38:48.480 team right after like to verify 0:38:47.599,0:38:51.280 something and 0:38:48.480,0:38:53.200 okay you know we're we were talking 0:38:51.280,0:38:55.119 about going from magenta 1 to magento 2 0:38:53.200,0:38:56.560 and they told us that there's no more 0:38:55.119,0:38:58.560 community edition that there's only 0:38:56.560,0:38:59.839 commerce well 0:38:58.560,0:39:01.520 yeah there isn't it's not community 0:38:59.839,0:39:02.560 decision it's now called magento open 0:39:01.520,0:39:04.960 source but 0:39:02.560,0:39:06.160 you know there is an option it's they've 0:39:04.960,0:39:07.599 renamed it like 0:39:06.160,0:39:09.119 you know i could see where there'd be 0:39:07.599,0:39:10.720 some confusion of course i wasn't on 0:39:09.119,0:39:12.320 that call but you know i'm talking to 0:39:10.720,0:39:13.359 developers that have worked on magento 0:39:12.320,0:39:14.960 for years and 0:39:13.359,0:39:16.560 they were quite adamant about how this 0:39:14.960,0:39:20.880 conversation went 0:39:16.560,0:39:22.480 um we've seen things like that where 0:39:20.880,0:39:24.000 you know we want to be able to report 0:39:22.480,0:39:25.839 those things back we don't believe that 0:39:24.000,0:39:26.800 those things are happening in a holistic 0:39:25.839,0:39:28.400 manner 0:39:26.800,0:39:31.200 in some cases i think that there are 0:39:28.400,0:39:34.560 more conspiracy theories 0:39:31.200,0:39:36.640 uh and i try to avoid being 0:39:34.560,0:39:37.760 sucked in into that we saw some of that 0:39:36.640,0:39:40.000 come about uh 0:39:37.760,0:39:42.320 end of life for magento one people were 0:39:40.000,0:39:45.680 getting notified by paypal 0:39:42.320,0:39:47.440 that they had to 0:39:45.680,0:39:49.280 upgrade to magento 2 or switch to 0:39:47.440,0:39:51.040 something else because paypal wasn't 0:39:49.280,0:39:53.280 going to support them anymore 0:39:51.040,0:39:55.359 and what i heard on market were things 0:39:53.280,0:39:57.280 like well everything except braintree is 0:39:55.359,0:40:00.960 being deprecated 0:39:57.280,0:40:02.240 from the checkout in magento 2. 0:40:00.960,0:40:05.920 and there are reasons for that that are 0:40:02.240,0:40:10.240 healthy of why that that's happening 0:40:05.920,0:40:10.800 in terms of deprecation of old uh of old 0:40:10.240,0:40:13.040 payment 0:40:10.800,0:40:14.800 methods um that weren't following new 0:40:13.040,0:40:18.160 european standards and such 0:40:14.800,0:40:20.400 uh and that there was a financing 0:40:18.160,0:40:23.200 program to go from m1 to m2 0:40:20.400,0:40:24.079 uh that was in partnership with magento 0:40:23.200,0:40:25.760 and paypal 0:40:24.079,0:40:27.599 and so a lot of people you know started 0:40:25.760,0:40:28.000 to look at well you know they're doing a 0:40:27.599,0:40:30.000 lot 0:40:28.000,0:40:31.280 together you know is this a strategy to 0:40:30.000,0:40:33.839 get people to 0:40:31.280,0:40:36.640 upgrade to magento commerce and is that 0:40:33.839,0:40:38.560 really where they're pushing people 0:40:36.640,0:40:40.240 and in my head i'm just thinking i i 0:40:38.560,0:40:41.359 don't think anybody sits down in a 0:40:40.240,0:40:43.440 boardroom and 0:40:41.359,0:40:45.200 gets that between these two particular 0:40:43.440,0:40:48.079 companies and gets that deep into it 0:40:45.200,0:40:49.119 from my perspective someone over at 0:40:48.079,0:40:52.160 paypal 0:40:49.119,0:40:53.599 uh in compliance saw a notice come over 0:40:52.160,0:40:55.680 from visa 0:40:53.599,0:40:58.480 that said magenta one end of life is 0:40:55.680,0:41:01.040 coming and there's risk involved for 0:40:58.480,0:41:02.480 acquires like paypal um as they're known 0:41:01.040,0:41:04.480 in the payment industry 0:41:02.480,0:41:06.400 and so you have to do something and i 0:41:04.480,0:41:06.880 don't think you know if i had to guess 0:41:06.400,0:41:09.119 at this 0:41:06.880,0:41:11.119 nothing would have come through um the 0:41:09.119,0:41:11.839 sales side of it that this all had to do 0:41:11.119,0:41:14.560 with 0:41:11.839,0:41:15.200 uh risk and you know finance people are 0:41:14.560,0:41:18.480 very 0:41:15.200,0:41:22.000 very very attentive to risk that's 0:41:18.480,0:41:23.920 almost their entire reason for existence 0:41:22.000,0:41:26.400 if they're not doing that well we're all 0:41:23.920,0:41:28.480 in big trouble 0:41:26.400,0:41:30.000 so you know you see these things and i 0:41:28.480,0:41:32.400 try to stay on 0:41:30.000,0:41:33.760 uh on the happy path i look at it and i 0:41:32.400,0:41:36.000 try to you know i think a lot of it's 0:41:33.760,0:41:38.400 interesting to think about 0:41:36.000,0:41:40.640 but at the same time you know it's the 0:41:38.400,0:41:42.560 same with magento commerce cloud i think 0:41:40.640,0:41:45.760 that a lot of it has to do with 0:41:42.560,0:41:49.040 um adobe for 0:41:45.760,0:41:51.680 not unfounded reason 0:41:49.040,0:41:53.359 um needing to recoup investment of the 0:41:51.680,0:41:56.560 acquisition of magento 0:41:53.359,0:41:58.240 um and really seeing the hosting as part 0:41:56.560,0:42:01.599 of that and really seeing 0:41:58.240,0:42:02.000 having more of a something closer to a 0:42:01.599,0:42:04.480 sas 0:42:02.000,0:42:05.839 play where they control uh the 0:42:04.480,0:42:08.000 environment better i mean keep in mind 0:42:05.839,0:42:10.960 if someone's on magento on-prem 0:42:08.000,0:42:11.680 and they don't renew they don't pay 0:42:10.960,0:42:13.359 their bill 0:42:11.680,0:42:15.440 there aren't so many great ways for 0:42:13.359,0:42:17.280 adobe to turn off the license 0:42:15.440,0:42:18.800 they would have to you know generally 0:42:17.280,0:42:20.880 speaking as far as i know they'd still 0:42:18.800,0:42:23.280 really have to chase after the user 0:42:20.880,0:42:24.880 uh you know put them in for collections 0:42:23.280,0:42:25.680 do something along those lines you know 0:42:24.880,0:42:27.359 sue them 0:42:25.680,0:42:29.359 um when they're hosting them they can 0:42:27.359,0:42:32.000 shut them down whenever they want 0:42:29.359,0:42:32.640 they also hypothetically depending on 0:42:32.000,0:42:35.200 how 0:42:32.640,0:42:36.560 uh service terms change over time they 0:42:35.200,0:42:38.400 get access to more data 0:42:36.560,0:42:40.800 they can see trends they can see things 0:42:38.400,0:42:43.599 that they can't see when you 0:42:40.800,0:42:44.720 host your site elsewhere unless there's 0:42:43.599,0:42:47.920 some strong 0:42:44.720,0:42:49.599 cold home feature uh that's getting that 0:42:47.920,0:42:52.560 data back to adobe and so i 0:42:49.599,0:42:54.880 i can imagine based upon the features 0:42:52.560,0:42:56.720 that they've been adding to magento 0:42:54.880,0:42:58.160 post acquisition and the focus that 0:42:56.720,0:43:00.000 they've had in terms of the product 0:42:58.160,0:43:02.000 roadmap of magento 0:43:00.000,0:43:04.720 um that they appreciate some of that 0:43:02.000,0:43:07.839 knowing how adobe operates uh 0:43:04.720,0:43:10.000 you know their other product lines but 0:43:07.839,0:43:11.280 being this open source community i'll go 0:43:10.000,0:43:13.440 back to the fact that i 0:43:11.280,0:43:14.560 i think that there are things that 0:43:13.440,0:43:16.960 they'll do well 0:43:14.560,0:43:18.079 and they're things that they won't um 0:43:16.960,0:43:20.800 and 0:43:18.079,0:43:22.480 you know if nothing else uh you know 0:43:20.800,0:43:23.599 while i think that they're folks that 0:43:22.480,0:43:26.000 just they're happy 0:43:23.599,0:43:27.680 with a vendor like jet rails and they 0:43:26.000,0:43:29.359 don't want to 0:43:27.680,0:43:30.960 uh go into the unknown especially 0:43:29.359,0:43:32.000 knowing that there are lots of users 0:43:30.960,0:43:35.599 that haven't been 0:43:32.000,0:43:38.079 as happy with that direction um that 0:43:35.599,0:43:39.680 they'll follow their own happy path and 0:43:38.079,0:43:40.319 that that makes sense for their business 0:43:39.680,0:43:43.599 i mean 0:43:40.319,0:43:45.680 you know do you go and you know get a 0:43:43.599,0:43:47.520 new car mechanic or barber or someone 0:43:45.680,0:43:48.720 else in the service industry to save a 0:43:47.520,0:43:50.960 couple of bucks 0:43:48.720,0:43:52.480 not that often um if you've got someone 0:43:50.960,0:43:54.160 that you trust that you like someone 0:43:52.480,0:43:57.040 that's doing it well 0:43:54.160,0:43:57.760 you don't necessarily make that kind of 0:43:57.040,0:44:00.240 a switch 0:43:57.760,0:44:01.200 um and like you're saying that uh 0:44:00.240,0:44:03.280 there's certainly 0:44:01.200,0:44:05.359 a lot of feelings in market about where 0:44:03.280,0:44:06.960 that product is today 0:44:05.359,0:44:08.480 even though it's sort of bundled for 0:44:06.960,0:44:11.359 every commerce 0:44:08.480,0:44:12.400 uh proposal that's put out every magento 0:44:11.359,0:44:15.119 commerce 0:44:12.400,0:44:16.160 uh you know quote that's submitted to a 0:44:15.119,0:44:18.800 merchant 0:44:16.160,0:44:20.480 um just because they're offering it or 0:44:18.800,0:44:21.760 just because it's bundled in like 0:44:20.480,0:44:23.599 you know the free toaster oven that 0:44:21.760,0:44:25.599 you're getting here doesn't mean that 0:44:23.599,0:44:26.880 it's what you really need or want 0:44:25.599,0:44:28.560 there's going to be that 0:44:26.880,0:44:29.920 grouping of users that they're going to 0:44:28.560,0:44:32.560 have need for something 0:44:29.920,0:44:33.119 uh more like what jet rails provides so 0:44:32.560,0:44:34.800 right 0:44:33.119,0:44:36.240 i think that there's a lot of safety and 0:44:34.800,0:44:38.079 you know at the same time majority of 0:44:36.240,0:44:38.720 users are still on magento open source 0:44:38.079,0:44:41.359 and that 0:44:38.720,0:44:43.200 within that community leaves us uh you 0:44:41.359,0:44:44.560 know a lot of room for growth as well i 0:44:43.200,0:44:46.640 mean truth be told some of our 0:44:44.560,0:44:49.839 absolutely largest customers 0:44:46.640,0:44:51.920 are on open source and you know so size 0:44:49.839,0:44:55.599 isn't always the reason 0:44:51.920,0:44:57.520 that people go to commerce uh you know 0:44:55.599,0:44:59.200 many at that point decide that they 0:44:57.520,0:45:00.800 could build 0:44:59.200,0:45:03.119 the handful of features that they might 0:45:00.800,0:45:05.440 benefit from from commerce themselves 0:45:03.119,0:45:07.280 maintain themselves use extensions use 0:45:05.440,0:45:08.880 third-party integrations 0:45:07.280,0:45:10.480 um and in fact i mean you and i have 0:45:08.880,0:45:11.599 probably dealt with a lot of merchants 0:45:10.480,0:45:14.319 over time 0:45:11.599,0:45:16.839 that have rather than get the enterprise 0:45:14.319,0:45:19.760 license and go to commerce 0:45:16.839,0:45:20.960 um that have gone that route or 0:45:19.760,0:45:22.400 the opposite that they've gotten the 0:45:20.960,0:45:23.920 commerce license but they're still 0:45:22.400,0:45:26.000 paying third parties 0:45:23.920,0:45:26.960 for modules that compete with the 0:45:26.000,0:45:29.280 features 0:45:26.960,0:45:31.119 in magento commerce because those 0:45:29.280,0:45:32.640 third-party systems that are dedicated 0:45:31.119,0:45:34.240 to something that do nothing but that 0:45:32.640,0:45:34.800 something might be a lot stronger at 0:45:34.240,0:45:36.960 that 0:45:34.800,0:45:38.000 and might meet their use use case more 0:45:36.960,0:45:40.000 head on 0:45:38.000,0:45:41.520 um that's not to say that that there 0:45:40.000,0:45:43.119 aren't lots of folks that i've advised 0:45:41.520,0:45:44.560 through the years and continued to to go 0:45:43.119,0:45:46.640 for commerce 0:45:44.560,0:45:48.640 but i think it comes down to a 0:45:46.640,0:45:50.480 spreadsheet and being able to say look 0:45:48.640,0:45:52.079 we're going to get value out of this in 0:45:50.480,0:45:54.720 the long term over the many years of 0:45:52.079,0:45:57.839 paying licensing fees 0:45:54.720,0:45:59.359 versus sticking open source and 0:45:57.839,0:46:01.920 utilizing what's available within the 0:45:59.359,0:46:04.400 magento marketplace and ecosystem 0:46:01.920,0:46:05.599 and custom development and sometimes you 0:46:04.400,0:46:07.680 know you find that that's going to point 0:46:05.599,0:46:10.480 you in one direction or another 0:46:07.680,0:46:11.760 but it's not really a an emotional 0:46:10.480,0:46:14.079 decision 0:46:11.760,0:46:15.680 it really does come down to what your 0:46:14.079,0:46:18.319 exact needs are 0:46:15.680,0:46:19.200 yeah that gets lost on a lot of people 0:46:18.319,0:46:22.079 yeah 0:46:19.200,0:46:22.800 i'm interested in um with the open 0:46:22.079,0:46:26.000 source 0:46:22.800,0:46:27.680 uh product and the association 0:46:26.000,0:46:29.760 um i know you had the guy on from the 0:46:27.680,0:46:32.079 drupal association 0:46:29.760,0:46:33.680 um and i checked i looked at a bit of 0:46:32.079,0:46:37.520 that episode 0:46:33.680,0:46:39.040 and i'm curious like i i sort of wonder 0:46:37.520,0:46:40.560 obviously the magenta association 0:46:39.040,0:46:43.040 handles events 0:46:40.560,0:46:44.000 um and i wonder if they might go a 0:46:43.040,0:46:46.880 direction 0:46:44.000,0:46:48.400 of you know more uh having direction 0:46:46.880,0:46:52.160 over the open source 0:46:48.400,0:46:54.640 uh project and i was curious like 0:46:52.160,0:46:56.880 what um what you learned about the 0:46:54.640,0:46:58.800 drupal open source foundation 0:46:56.880,0:47:01.280 and if there's any anything that the 0:46:58.800,0:47:04.240 magento community can maybe learn 0:47:01.280,0:47:05.700 uh from the way they're doing things 0:47:04.240,0:47:06.960 that's that's an interesting one 0:47:05.700,0:47:09.599 [Music] 0:47:06.960,0:47:10.079 i'll try to tackle it concisely as much 0:47:09.599,0:47:12.960 as i know 0:47:10.079,0:47:14.160 how but so drupal's around a long time 0:47:12.960,0:47:17.200 open source 0:47:14.160,0:47:19.760 cms content management system uh 0:47:17.200,0:47:21.359 competes in the same space as a platform 0:47:19.760,0:47:23.760 like wordpress although on average it's 0:47:21.359,0:47:26.800 used by larger organizations um 0:47:23.760,0:47:28.960 universities hospitals non-profits uh 0:47:26.800,0:47:30.160 you know large organizations it has 0:47:28.960,0:47:31.599 certain things built in that actually 0:47:30.160,0:47:32.480 members of the magento community would 0:47:31.599,0:47:33.920 appreciate 0:47:32.480,0:47:36.000 as a content management system because 0:47:33.920,0:47:39.200 it has a lot of access controls 0:47:36.000,0:47:41.440 in terms of which admin users can uh get 0:47:39.200,0:47:44.559 access to which features and tasks 0:47:41.440,0:47:47.280 uh and and you know this way um 0:47:44.559,0:47:49.440 you know you can really uh handle things 0:47:47.280,0:47:50.720 in a neater nicer way when you've got 0:47:49.440,0:47:52.319 you know this bigger organization with 0:47:50.720,0:47:54.480 more people logging in and making 0:47:52.319,0:47:57.760 changes and adding content and 0:47:54.480,0:47:59.680 um they handle multi-sites better 0:47:57.760,0:48:02.079 it is a more traditional content 0:47:59.680,0:48:04.559 management system at the heart 0:48:02.079,0:48:05.200 and then while it you know certainly has 0:48:04.559,0:48:06.880 kind of like 0:48:05.200,0:48:09.359 the direction that magento has been 0:48:06.880,0:48:12.400 heading in with pwa studio 0:48:09.359,0:48:15.760 and the new newer at least graphql 0:48:12.400,0:48:18.640 uh apis and the ability to go headless 0:48:15.760,0:48:19.200 you could use um drupal as a front end 0:48:18.640,0:48:21.359 for 0:48:19.200,0:48:22.720 um as the the back-end content 0:48:21.359,0:48:23.440 management system for just about 0:48:22.720,0:48:26.400 anything 0:48:23.440,0:48:27.599 um you could also use it as a front-end 0:48:26.400,0:48:30.240 um that you could 0:48:27.599,0:48:31.760 uh you know use to more nimbly design 0:48:30.240,0:48:34.160 front-end pages and things and 0:48:31.760,0:48:35.680 have more control of that from data 0:48:34.160,0:48:37.440 that's coming from somewhere else 0:48:35.680,0:48:39.599 so there are these different use cases 0:48:37.440,0:48:40.960 but as an open source community 0:48:39.599,0:48:43.839 i think that there's a lot for the 0:48:40.960,0:48:46.400 magento community to look at there 0:48:43.839,0:48:48.400 i mean given that that drupal has no 0:48:46.400,0:48:52.480 paid enterprise version the closest 0:48:48.400,0:48:56.079 um that they've got it is acquia um 0:48:52.480,0:48:58.720 where you know you're getting um 0:48:56.079,0:49:00.160 you know certain extra facets um and so 0:48:58.720,0:49:01.119 you know anyone that spends time in that 0:49:00.160,0:49:02.880 ecosystem 0:49:01.119,0:49:04.960 is gonna you know see some of that 0:49:02.880,0:49:08.240 happening but um 0:49:04.960,0:49:10.480 but overall it's really 0:49:08.240,0:49:12.960 focused on the end users and so you have 0:49:10.480,0:49:15.040 all these you know large corporations 0:49:12.960,0:49:16.480 i liked seeing that some in healthcare 0:49:15.040,0:49:18.160 um i'd have to remember you know like 0:49:16.480,0:49:20.960 johnson and johnson and pfizer 0:49:18.160,0:49:21.839 are all submitting to the source code 0:49:20.960,0:49:24.079 and 0:49:21.839,0:49:25.760 competing companies with competing 0:49:24.079,0:49:28.480 business interests and other things 0:49:25.760,0:49:30.400 but they understand that at least from 0:49:28.480,0:49:33.839 my perspective you know just you know 0:49:30.400,0:49:35.680 this is open source that they 0:49:33.839,0:49:36.960 can do it better together they can move 0:49:35.680,0:49:38.800 the needle um 0:49:36.960,0:49:40.240 you know better by all contributing to 0:49:38.800,0:49:42.400 the source code 0:49:40.240,0:49:44.079 and they don't have to maintain it all 0:49:42.400,0:49:45.599 themselves so they can start like 0:49:44.079,0:49:46.800 version one of a feature and let the 0:49:45.599,0:49:49.200 community keep 0:49:46.800,0:49:51.359 building it out and maintaining and 0:49:49.200,0:49:54.720 there's this larger effect so 0:49:51.359,0:49:56.640 by not having that commercial uh 0:49:54.720,0:49:58.000 competition within the ecosystem i think 0:49:56.640,0:50:00.800 it makes certain things easier 0:49:58.000,0:50:01.920 the road map isn't controlled by 0:50:00.800,0:50:03.680 specifically 0:50:01.920,0:50:05.359 um you know commercial interest that's 0:50:03.680,0:50:07.040 trying to sell an enterprise license or 0:50:05.359,0:50:10.160 that that's reliant on it i mean 0:50:07.040,0:50:13.760 again i respect where adobe sits within 0:50:10.160,0:50:16.880 the magento ecosystem uh and the need 0:50:13.760,0:50:18.079 to you know a as the parent there uh to 0:50:16.880,0:50:21.680 to keep everything 0:50:18.079,0:50:25.520 um profitable yeah 0:50:21.680,0:50:28.480 how is acquia um it's not 0:50:25.520,0:50:29.440 like an analog to an enterprise version 0:50:28.480,0:50:32.640 of 0:50:29.440,0:50:34.720 drupal it's entirely separate i wouldn't 0:50:32.640,0:50:35.920 i think in some ways they've they've 0:50:34.720,0:50:38.319 created value ads 0:50:35.920,0:50:39.280 and so that includes marketing solutions 0:50:38.319,0:50:42.640 so 0:50:39.280,0:50:44.000 um there are different facets that 0:50:42.640,0:50:46.319 you're going to get from aqua 0:50:44.000,0:50:49.680 including the hosting and so there are 0:50:46.319,0:50:52.640 users that go that route 0:50:49.680,0:50:53.760 at the same time they don't control the 0:50:52.640,0:50:56.960 ecosystem 0:50:53.760,0:50:58.880 they don't you know there's a non-profit 0:50:56.960,0:51:00.160 the drupal association that plays a much 0:50:58.880,0:51:02.559 deeper role 0:51:00.160,0:51:04.240 uh it's a no you know it is a true 0:51:02.559,0:51:05.280 non-profit they were actually hurting 0:51:04.240,0:51:08.480 this year and that's when 0:51:05.280,0:51:11.119 jet rails got more involved uh you know 0:51:08.480,0:51:12.800 i had been engaged with the community on 0:51:11.119,0:51:15.839 a lighter level 0:51:12.800,0:51:18.240 earlier in the year and then 0:51:15.839,0:51:19.200 i was planning on being a drupalcon in 0:51:18.240,0:51:20.800 the midwest 0:51:19.200,0:51:24.000 which was supposed to be somewhere in 0:51:20.800,0:51:25.440 may and of course that was cancelled and 0:51:24.000,0:51:27.839 a lot of their revenue came through that 0:51:25.440,0:51:29.680 event as a non-profit 0:51:27.839,0:51:31.280 and so they were hurting and so we 0:51:29.680,0:51:33.520 stepped up to the plate during their 0:51:31.280,0:51:34.559 drupal cares uh initiative where they 0:51:33.520,0:51:37.200 were asking 0:51:34.559,0:51:37.920 members of the community to uh to donate 0:51:37.200,0:51:39.599 and sponsor and 0:51:37.920,0:51:41.280 they had a great outpouring which was 0:51:39.599,0:51:43.200 fantastic to see 0:51:41.280,0:51:45.200 and again not something that like 0:51:43.200,0:51:47.440 magento as a commercial organization 0:51:45.200,0:51:49.200 could uh could do in the same way but 0:51:47.440,0:51:51.200 this seeing people really with this 0:51:49.200,0:51:53.839 outpouring of support for 0:51:51.200,0:51:55.040 uh for a completely open source project 0:51:53.839,0:51:56.640 complete non-profit 0:51:55.040,0:51:58.319 i thought all that was really great they 0:51:56.640,0:52:01.280 have a lot of the same challenges 0:51:58.319,0:52:03.280 in continuing to architect the platform 0:52:01.280,0:52:05.920 to be easier to upgrade 0:52:03.280,0:52:07.359 uh you know we all know that magento one 0:52:05.920,0:52:10.400 to magento 2 0:52:07.359,0:52:12.800 is not easy uh and not cheap 0:52:10.400,0:52:14.720 it's a journey you know absolutely 0:52:12.800,0:52:17.040 wordpress has gone through some of this 0:52:14.720,0:52:18.160 drupal is going through it everyone is 0:52:17.040,0:52:20.240 working on 0:52:18.160,0:52:21.440 uh on opportunities to make upgrade 0:52:20.240,0:52:24.720 paths easier 0:52:21.440,0:52:27.119 um to make maintenance easier um but 0:52:24.720,0:52:28.400 also to allow for more customization and 0:52:27.119,0:52:32.319 more freedom 0:52:28.400,0:52:33.839 and i think that there's uh so i 0:52:32.319,0:52:35.440 i think that's one of my favorite 0:52:33.839,0:52:37.920 episodes of our podcast 0:52:35.440,0:52:39.200 uh bar none that um getting to chat with 0:52:37.920,0:52:42.880 the cto of 0:52:39.200,0:52:46.160 drupal um was a lot of fun and uh 0:52:42.880,0:52:48.400 i i learned a lot on camera 0:52:46.160,0:52:49.599 which i enjoy thoroughly when you know 0:52:48.400,0:52:51.119 there are episodes where 0:52:49.599,0:52:52.720 i kind of think i know how it's going to 0:52:51.119,0:52:53.680 go i came to that one knowing i had 0:52:52.720,0:52:55.760 questions that i was 0:52:53.680,0:52:57.440 hoping to hear answers to that i really 0:52:55.760,0:53:00.480 didn't know the answers to 0:52:57.440,0:53:01.520 um and i've continued to stay even more 0:53:00.480,0:53:04.880 involved uh 0:53:01.520,0:53:05.280 in that community since but um i i think 0:53:04.880,0:53:07.599 that 0:53:05.280,0:53:08.559 uh you know for anyone that it's 0:53:07.599,0:53:12.000 wondering about 0:53:08.559,0:53:14.319 the direction of magento i think that 0:53:12.000,0:53:15.839 checking out that episode about where 0:53:14.319,0:53:17.280 the drupal community sits 0:53:15.839,0:53:19.760 is a really interesting way to look at 0:53:17.280,0:53:23.680 it because i can foresee a day 0:53:19.760,0:53:26.319 when adobe might even hand over 0:53:23.680,0:53:27.920 uh you know and folks like ben marks 0:53:26.319,0:53:29.040 have talked about this in the past might 0:53:27.920,0:53:31.760 hand over 0:53:29.040,0:53:32.240 uh magento open source uh you know the 0:53:31.760,0:53:35.839 free 0:53:32.240,0:53:36.559 version to the magento association or 0:53:35.839,0:53:39.200 some other 0:53:36.559,0:53:40.640 entity you know we see in their 0:53:39.200,0:53:43.440 marketing they talk about 0:53:40.640,0:53:45.280 magento commerce more and more they they 0:53:43.440,0:53:48.400 speak about open source 0:53:45.280,0:53:50.720 uh as as a version less and less um they 0:53:48.400,0:53:52.640 are really focused on 0:53:50.720,0:53:54.559 less so on magento open source is the 0:53:52.640,0:53:56.319 feeder program in their collateral in 0:53:54.559,0:53:57.920 their marketing material 0:53:56.319,0:53:59.920 and that's not to say that they don't 0:53:57.920,0:54:02.960 enjoy it as a feeder program and they 0:53:59.920,0:54:05.760 don't enjoy the community effect of 0:54:02.960,0:54:07.520 open source contribution through their 0:54:05.760,0:54:09.920 community engineering program 0:54:07.520,0:54:11.040 and and the strength of getting 0:54:09.920,0:54:12.559 integrations and 0:54:11.040,0:54:14.400 extensions and things that happen 0:54:12.559,0:54:17.119 because of the wealth of open source 0:54:14.400,0:54:18.400 users not just uh the minority of 0:54:17.119,0:54:21.440 commerce users 0:54:18.400,0:54:23.040 and you know it's one of those old boats 0:54:21.440,0:54:24.880 float scenarios 0:54:23.040,0:54:26.480 where they're benefiting from that that 0:54:24.880,0:54:28.880 ecosystem 0:54:26.480,0:54:29.760 but i you know i've been in tech long 0:54:28.880,0:54:32.400 enough to know that 0:54:29.760,0:54:34.240 i can't see a few years out and so while 0:54:32.400,0:54:36.880 i feel confident that magento 0:54:34.240,0:54:38.880 open source will continue to go strong i 0:54:36.880,0:54:39.280 can't swear who the steward of it would 0:54:38.880,0:54:42.640 be 0:54:39.280,0:54:43.920 a few years out yeah i mean i don't know 0:54:42.640,0:54:46.160 i don't know too much about 0:54:43.920,0:54:47.920 um how the drupal association works and 0:54:46.160,0:54:48.559 i gotta i gotta dig into that episode 0:54:47.920,0:54:50.480 and 0:54:48.559,0:54:52.559 get into some more detail there but it 0:54:50.480,0:54:54.720 seems like 0:54:52.559,0:54:56.960 it makes sense for the open source 0:54:54.720,0:54:59.040 project to be owned 0:54:56.960,0:55:01.119 by that association and i just don't 0:54:59.040,0:55:02.319 know if that's the direction it's gonna 0:55:01.119,0:55:05.359 go or not 0:55:02.319,0:55:08.720 um you know it's an undertaking 0:55:05.359,0:55:10.079 and i think um as the magento 0:55:08.720,0:55:11.760 association which is a great 0:55:10.079,0:55:14.640 organization and if you know 0:55:11.760,0:55:16.799 if anyone's involved you know as a user 0:55:14.640,0:55:20.000 or within the magento ecosystem and 0:55:16.799,0:55:22.400 isn't a member i highly recommend it 0:55:20.000,0:55:23.839 uh they've been standing up different 0:55:22.400,0:55:26.079 partnerships and getting 0:55:23.839,0:55:26.960 um you know sponsors in essence um and 0:55:26.079,0:55:28.960 so there's 0:55:26.960,0:55:30.559 some dollars flowing and because in 0:55:28.960,0:55:31.920 order to have full-time resources 0:55:30.559,0:55:33.520 because there's a non-profit board for 0:55:31.920,0:55:34.960 the magento association 0:55:33.520,0:55:38.160 and those are some amazing folks from 0:55:34.960,0:55:39.760 across the uh the magento ecosystem and 0:55:38.160,0:55:41.440 they've got full-time jobs they run 0:55:39.760,0:55:44.559 agencies they 0:55:41.440,0:55:45.760 um are involved uh you know on behalf of 0:55:44.559,0:55:48.240 corporations with 0:55:45.760,0:55:50.559 maintaining these sites they've 0:55:48.240,0:55:52.079 committed an amount of time 0:55:50.559,0:55:54.319 you know to being on this non-profit 0:55:52.079,0:55:55.200 board but in order to have enough 0:55:54.319,0:55:58.079 resource 0:55:55.200,0:55:59.839 to really move the needle to be able to 0:55:58.079,0:56:02.240 effectively 0:55:59.839,0:56:03.920 manage an operation like that they need 0:56:02.240,0:56:05.680 a certain operating budget 0:56:03.920,0:56:07.119 and i i think that they're on their way 0:56:05.680,0:56:10.240 to it i haven't gotten 0:56:07.119,0:56:13.599 any you know ultra recent updates 0:56:10.240,0:56:16.880 on trajectories there um 0:56:13.599,0:56:18.319 but like most non-profits you know with 0:56:16.880,0:56:19.680 the right resources they can do a lot 0:56:18.319,0:56:22.400 more for the community and 0:56:19.680,0:56:23.760 again i i don't know that their goal is 0:56:22.400,0:56:26.160 to be the stewards of 0:56:23.760,0:56:27.599 magento open source but i think that 0:56:26.160,0:56:29.040 there are some folks that wouldn't mind 0:56:27.599,0:56:31.119 seeing it happen 0:56:29.040,0:56:32.480 when the time is right if if that comes 0:56:31.119,0:56:35.920 to fruition 0:56:32.480,0:56:37.520 yeah yeah um you know i actually just 0:56:35.920,0:56:39.520 had danny vercadion 0:56:37.520,0:56:40.640 uh yesterday and he's on the on the 0:56:39.520,0:56:42.640 board and 0:56:40.640,0:56:44.079 um so it was good he was mentioning 0:56:42.640,0:56:45.680 couldn't get into too much detail but 0:56:44.079,0:56:47.440 that there might be some 0:56:45.680,0:56:49.359 some interesting updates coming around 0:56:47.440,0:56:53.119 the pike um 0:56:49.359,0:56:55.040 so that'll be interesting to see um 0:56:53.119,0:56:56.240 but yeah it'll be interesting to follow 0:56:55.040,0:56:59.520 the way that um 0:56:56.240,0:57:03.119 the way that evolves um 0:56:59.520,0:57:05.440 what um how are you feeling about 0:57:03.119,0:57:06.319 the magento community kind of just in 0:57:05.440,0:57:08.240 general 0:57:06.319,0:57:09.839 a lot of um a lot of people in the 0:57:08.240,0:57:11.839 community are branching out to other 0:57:09.839,0:57:13.520 platforms other e-commerce platforms you 0:57:11.839,0:57:16.160 mentioned big commerce 0:57:13.520,0:57:17.200 um i've seen a lot of them you know in 0:57:16.160,0:57:20.480 some of those 0:57:17.200,0:57:21.680 places it's tech so everyone's following 0:57:20.480,0:57:25.680 the trend lines 0:57:21.680,0:57:27.359 um i think that some have been 0:57:25.680,0:57:28.720 on any side of the fence have been 0:57:27.359,0:57:30.640 turned off by a 0:57:28.720,0:57:32.960 platform a partnership model of a 0:57:30.640,0:57:34.160 platform some some of these partnerships 0:57:32.960,0:57:36.240 are pay to play 0:57:34.160,0:57:37.680 sometimes you don't get the resources 0:57:36.240,0:57:40.319 that you're expecting out of it 0:57:37.680,0:57:42.079 sometimes the the you know the way that 0:57:40.319,0:57:42.480 things shake out doesn't quite work out 0:57:42.079,0:57:44.960 but 0:57:42.480,0:57:46.160 mostly it's servicing the customer what 0:57:44.960,0:57:48.160 does the customer want what does the 0:57:46.160,0:57:51.280 customer need 0:57:48.160,0:57:53.440 magento from my perspective historically 0:57:51.280,0:57:54.400 hasn't had the strongest marketing arm 0:57:53.440,0:57:57.520 they didn't need to 0:57:54.400,0:57:58.880 they got to the market early they uh i 0:57:57.520,0:58:00.160 thought that their marketing was always 0:57:58.880,0:58:02.559 pretty strong 0:58:00.160,0:58:03.440 really you know i i would have pegged 0:58:02.559,0:58:06.240 shopify 0:58:03.440,0:58:06.720 in recent years of well but the events 0:58:06.240,0:58:08.799 were 0:58:06.720,0:58:09.839 targeting people mainly that we're 0:58:08.799,0:58:12.559 already 0:58:09.839,0:58:13.839 using the platform or engaged with it 0:58:12.559,0:58:18.400 and 0:58:13.839,0:58:18.400 so i you know to me i think that they've 0:58:19.280,0:58:23.839 yeah what's up 0:58:28.240,0:58:32.480 mommy's not here mommy's in the other 0:58:30.480,0:58:33.680 room 0:58:32.480,0:58:36.160 work from home what are you gonna do 0:58:33.680,0:58:39.200 right absolutely all of us 0:58:36.160,0:58:42.319 uh but you know so to 0:58:39.200,0:58:45.680 circle back on on that one i i think 0:58:42.319,0:58:46.960 that magento really relied on their open 0:58:45.680,0:58:49.520 source community 0:58:46.960,0:58:50.079 um on being an industry leader because 0:58:49.520,0:58:53.040 they got 0:58:50.079,0:58:54.160 they got to market earlier and built up 0:58:53.040,0:58:56.880 more of a following 0:58:54.160,0:58:58.000 earlier uh and so they got to sort of 0:58:56.880,0:59:01.119 enjoy the fruits of 0:58:58.000,0:59:03.359 of that and you know if you went to an 0:59:01.119,0:59:05.359 agency and you wanted to build an 0:59:03.359,0:59:06.160 e-commerce site of some size and 0:59:05.359,0:59:08.960 standing 0:59:06.160,0:59:10.559 they said oh but we'll use magento and 0:59:08.960,0:59:12.400 there was that time in the market where 0:59:10.559,0:59:15.520 the agencies really played 0:59:12.400,0:59:18.400 uh it started to really play that role 0:59:15.520,0:59:20.640 and magento benefited from it and if you 0:59:18.400,0:59:22.960 were building a tech integration 0:59:20.640,0:59:24.319 um you know you know you were building a 0:59:22.960,0:59:25.920 sas company and you wanted to figure out 0:59:24.319,0:59:27.119 which e-commerce platform to integrate 0:59:25.920,0:59:31.119 with first 0:59:27.119,0:59:33.280 you went to magento it was the lion 0:59:31.119,0:59:35.280 out of the pack right you know it had 0:59:33.280,0:59:38.000 that leadership role 0:59:35.280,0:59:39.359 and not to say that magento rested on 0:59:38.000,0:59:41.839 those laurels but 0:59:39.359,0:59:42.480 i think that there was a lot of at least 0:59:41.839,0:59:46.319 yeah i 0:59:42.480,0:59:50.079 i may be slightly off track here but 0:59:46.319,0:59:53.200 i always saw it as needing to do less 0:59:50.079,0:59:55.599 uh be in 0:59:53.200,0:59:56.880 maybe to direct to merchant marketing 0:59:55.599,0:59:59.040 and relying more 0:59:56.880,1:00:00.960 on the partner network on the ecosystem 0:59:59.040,1:00:04.720 and community to feed 1:00:00.960,1:00:07.599 uh the overall uh demand 1:00:04.720,1:00:08.960 for the platform where shopify went 1:00:07.599,1:00:12.160 right to merchants 1:00:08.960,1:00:14.559 and you know hit it hard and really 1:00:12.160,1:00:15.680 became a name that a lot of users just 1:00:14.559,1:00:18.160 couldn't help but go 1:00:15.680,1:00:19.440 check it out and it wasn't necessarily 1:00:18.160,1:00:21.280 better for them 1:00:19.440,1:00:22.880 um there are users that absolutely it 1:00:21.280,1:00:25.680 was uh and i could 1:00:22.880,1:00:27.440 you know prognosticate a about why 1:00:25.680,1:00:30.000 better for one and not another 1:00:27.440,1:00:31.359 but and the same would apply to pretty 1:00:30.000,1:00:32.960 much every other platform everything's 1:00:31.359,1:00:33.680 got strengths and weaknesses pros and 1:00:32.960,1:00:37.200 cons 1:00:33.680,1:00:39.040 um there's always some gray area but i i 1:00:37.200,1:00:40.640 think that some of these younger 1:00:39.040,1:00:43.119 platforms are at least younger in terms 1:00:40.640,1:00:45.839 of building market share 1:00:43.119,1:00:46.720 did a better job of marketing directly 1:00:45.839,1:00:50.480 to merchants 1:00:46.720,1:00:52.720 and you know trying to pull them in 1:00:50.480,1:00:54.240 where a lot of folks got to magento open 1:00:52.720,1:00:56.160 source which was free how much could 1:00:54.240,1:00:58.000 magento spend to bring them to open 1:00:56.160,1:00:59.599 source 1:00:58.000,1:01:01.599 that was happening through the community 1:00:59.599,1:01:04.160 and that's a very different 1:01:01.599,1:01:06.160 methodology and model as a business or 1:01:04.160,1:01:09.599 organization 1:01:06.160,1:01:12.000 so we've seen how some of that has 1:01:09.599,1:01:13.680 in essence had an impact and now that 1:01:12.000,1:01:15.440 some of these platforms really do have a 1:01:13.680,1:01:17.359 lot of market share especially in smb i 1:01:15.440,1:01:20.720 mean that's the major change here 1:01:17.359,1:01:23.040 uh is that shopify got the smb market 1:01:20.720,1:01:24.480 uh magento has continued to work farther 1:01:23.040,1:01:26.160 up market 1:01:24.480,1:01:28.000 and focus more and more heavily on 1:01:26.160,1:01:30.240 mid-market and enterprise 1:01:28.000,1:01:31.920 uh you know and other players have been 1:01:30.240,1:01:33.760 um you know again you know figuring out 1:01:31.920,1:01:35.119 what their core focuses are and it's 1:01:33.760,1:01:37.920 okay it's doing 1:01:35.119,1:01:40.079 quite a good job at it but if shopify 1:01:37.920,1:01:43.599 had been around in the way that it is 1:01:40.079,1:01:44.079 today 10 years ago there would have been 1:01:43.599,1:01:46.880 more 1:01:44.079,1:01:48.640 people choosing shopify for those smb 1:01:46.880,1:01:49.920 builds because we see 1:01:48.640,1:01:51.599 you know some of those folks that are 1:01:49.920,1:01:53.839 still on magento one it's because they 1:01:51.599,1:01:57.680 invested heavily into a platform 1:01:53.839,1:01:58.559 um they uh you know they haven't gone to 1:01:57.680,1:02:00.480 magento too 1:01:58.559,1:02:02.640 because the costs of maintenance and 1:02:00.480,1:02:05.599 what have you you know the migration are 1:02:02.640,1:02:07.200 too high um that they you know if you're 1:02:05.599,1:02:09.039 selling 1:02:07.200,1:02:10.880 thousands tens of thousands of dollars 1:02:09.039,1:02:12.480 of goods a year maybe hundreds of 1:02:10.880,1:02:15.280 thousands but you know not the 1:02:12.480,1:02:16.559 best margins which most retailers have 1:02:15.280,1:02:18.160 limited margins 1:02:16.559,1:02:20.160 uh it doesn't always leave you a lot of 1:02:18.160,1:02:23.680 room for the tech stack 1:02:20.160,1:02:26.799 and s and sas can really deliver on that 1:02:23.680,1:02:28.400 smb market where open source can really 1:02:26.799,1:02:30.480 have a really good total cost of 1:02:28.400,1:02:32.799 ownership and the flexibility 1:02:30.480,1:02:34.000 that merchants are looking for as they 1:02:32.799,1:02:35.599 get up there 1:02:34.000,1:02:37.599 you know into the millions in revenue 1:02:35.599,1:02:38.799 and there's a much bigger much stronger 1:02:37.599,1:02:42.240 use case 1:02:38.799,1:02:43.920 um and so there's been a lot of that 1:02:42.240,1:02:46.240 happening and i i think that there's a 1:02:43.920,1:02:47.760 use case you know depending on the 1:02:46.240,1:02:48.640 flexibility that you need the features 1:02:47.760,1:02:50.480 that you need 1:02:48.640,1:02:51.680 the expectations that you have also 1:02:50.480,1:02:52.720 things that come down to things like 1:02:51.680,1:02:56.000 data privacy 1:02:52.720,1:02:56.480 security when you go with sas uh there 1:02:56.000,1:02:59.599 was 1:02:56.480,1:03:01.359 recently in the news there was a um 1:02:59.599,1:03:03.200 there were shopify employees that were 1:03:01.359,1:03:04.480 arrested by the fbi because they were 1:03:03.200,1:03:07.359 stealing data 1:03:04.480,1:03:08.079 and selling it now that's not to say 1:03:07.359,1:03:09.680 that you know 1:03:08.079,1:03:11.119 that magento merchants don't have 1:03:09.680,1:03:12.880 vendors that couldn't also do 1:03:11.119,1:03:14.480 awful things and i'm actually i was very 1:03:12.880,1:03:16.400 glad to see that 1:03:14.480,1:03:18.400 shopify made the authorities aware and 1:03:16.400,1:03:19.680 did everything as it appeared at least 1:03:18.400,1:03:20.960 in the news by the book and that's 1:03:19.680,1:03:23.280 fantastic 1:03:20.960,1:03:24.400 um but the average shopify site that i 1:03:23.280,1:03:26.400 see uses 1:03:24.400,1:03:28.559 a tremendous number of apps that get 1:03:26.400,1:03:31.359 access to a tremendous amount of 1:03:28.559,1:03:32.240 of proprietary data customer data order 1:03:31.359,1:03:33.920 data 1:03:32.240,1:03:35.440 and who's writing those apps who's 1:03:33.920,1:03:36.799 maintaining them where are they hosted 1:03:35.440,1:03:39.599 are they secure 1:03:36.799,1:03:40.000 um even are they scalable you know will 1:03:39.599,1:03:42.079 they 1:03:40.000,1:03:43.440 hit a breaking point on black friday who 1:03:42.079,1:03:45.440 knows 1:03:43.440,1:03:47.359 i still think that for a lot of these 1:03:45.440,1:03:48.240 larger merchants there's something to be 1:03:47.359,1:03:51.200 said 1:03:48.240,1:03:52.319 um for owning the stack owning your data 1:03:51.200,1:03:55.599 having more control 1:03:52.319,1:03:56.960 having more flexibility being able to 1:03:55.599,1:03:59.280 edit and configure in a way that you 1:03:56.960,1:04:00.640 want i mean it's now been a while but 1:03:59.280,1:04:04.160 you know we've seen 1:04:00.640,1:04:06.000 uh folks in the shopify uh space 1:04:04.160,1:04:07.760 like mailchimp have a falling out and 1:04:06.000,1:04:10.880 all of a sudden these users 1:04:07.760,1:04:12.960 have no choice but to uh you know 1:04:10.880,1:04:14.559 change their email marketing platform 1:04:12.960,1:04:16.720 that there is no 1:04:14.559,1:04:17.599 open source you know module to be had 1:04:16.720,1:04:21.039 it's 1:04:17.599,1:04:23.920 it's access to shopify's api they own it 1:04:21.039,1:04:25.520 um it's it's theirs um the same with 1:04:23.920,1:04:26.319 shopify rolling out different features 1:04:25.520,1:04:30.160 that compete 1:04:26.319,1:04:30.160 with their ecosystem and that compete 1:04:30.960,1:04:34.400 you know with sometimes with merchants 1:04:32.480,1:04:37.359 interest in some cases 1:04:34.400,1:04:38.640 uh you know charging folks for merchant 1:04:37.359,1:04:41.119 services either 1:04:38.640,1:04:42.720 for using merchant services or a penalty 1:04:41.119,1:04:44.319 if you want to use your own 1:04:42.720,1:04:46.319 um they have a business model i mean 1:04:44.319,1:04:47.440 that's how they they stay profitable and 1:04:46.319,1:04:48.880 they're folks that could 1:04:47.440,1:04:50.799 you know say why they think that that's 1:04:48.880,1:04:53.520 that's good um you know 1:04:50.799,1:04:54.000 i can see use cases across the board but 1:04:53.520,1:04:56.079 i i 1:04:54.000,1:04:57.599 think that when we look at these sorts 1:04:56.079,1:05:00.079 of things that 1:04:57.599,1:05:00.799 you know it's important to take a 1:05:00.079,1:05:02.720 holistic 1:05:00.799,1:05:04.880 look you know if you're buying a house 1:05:02.720,1:05:08.400 you don't buy a house to be in it 1:05:04.880,1:05:10.799 for six months closing costs movers 1:05:08.400,1:05:11.920 um also i mean by the time that you're 1:05:10.799,1:05:14.400 done it's 1:05:11.920,1:05:15.760 uh a house is never done right you know 1:05:14.400,1:05:16.240 and i think the same of an e-commerce 1:05:15.760,1:05:18.319 site 1:05:16.240,1:05:20.160 it's not fun to migrate um it's 1:05:18.319,1:05:21.920 time-consuming it's expensive data 1:05:20.160,1:05:22.880 doesn't always port over as well as you 1:05:21.920,1:05:24.079 want 1:05:22.880,1:05:26.240 features and things that impact 1:05:24.079,1:05:29.119 customers that customers don't 1:05:26.240,1:05:30.160 don't want to be guinea pigs they'd like 1:05:29.119,1:05:32.880 things to be 1:05:30.160,1:05:34.240 stable and reliable that a lot of these 1:05:32.880,1:05:35.680 things come into play so it's just 1:05:34.240,1:05:37.039 figuring out what's right for the 1:05:35.680,1:05:38.799 longevity of the business 1:05:37.039,1:05:40.960 what is that business going to be want 1:05:38.799,1:05:43.599 to be doing in two years or maybe even 1:05:40.960,1:05:43.599 three or four 1:05:43.760,1:05:47.200 and i think that the marketing rarely 1:05:45.839,1:05:49.920 focuses as much 1:05:47.200,1:05:52.000 on that from any of these platforms it's 1:05:49.920,1:05:54.079 more about look at these cool features 1:05:52.000,1:05:57.039 look at this total cost of ownership of 1:05:54.079,1:05:58.160 of you know a month as opposed to years 1:05:57.039,1:06:01.839 um 1:05:58.160,1:06:02.880 you know they don't really focus on 1:06:01.839,1:06:06.480 security and 1:06:02.880,1:06:07.839 data privacy and um and scalability and 1:06:06.480,1:06:09.200 some of these other things in quite the 1:06:07.839,1:06:12.079 same way 1:06:09.200,1:06:12.799 in a lot of the marketing yeah i i hear 1:06:12.079,1:06:14.559 you on that 1:06:12.799,1:06:16.799 um it's it's been interesting as i've 1:06:14.559,1:06:19.359 been starting to kind of follow 1:06:16.799,1:06:21.200 the shopify space a little bit more than 1:06:19.359,1:06:23.520 i had in the past in the past i was just 1:06:21.200,1:06:24.960 magento only for years 1:06:23.520,1:06:26.400 and i didn't want to hear anything about 1:06:24.960,1:06:27.599 other platforms i didn't want to think 1:06:26.400,1:06:28.240 about them didn't want to know about 1:06:27.599,1:06:30.480 them 1:06:28.240,1:06:32.079 and i've been starting to kind of follow 1:06:30.480,1:06:34.319 the shopify space a little bit 1:06:32.079,1:06:36.000 there's a lot of people moving up market 1:06:34.319,1:06:38.000 with shopify plus 1:06:36.000,1:06:39.920 there's a lot of cool stuff there but 1:06:38.000,1:06:41.599 it's interesting to see a lot of the 1:06:39.920,1:06:44.799 dynamics play themself 1:06:41.599,1:06:46.480 out in that ecosystem that i saw 1:06:44.799,1:06:48.240 in the magento ecosystem even though 1:06:46.480,1:06:50.240 it's a completely different model it's 1:06:48.240,1:06:53.599 sas versus open source 1:06:50.240,1:06:57.920 but for example uh extensions between 1:06:53.599,1:06:57.920 conflicts between apps or extensions 1:06:59.520,1:07:04.000 if not necessarily like it's not like 1:07:01.359,1:07:05.839 you're dealing with code level conflicts 1:07:04.000,1:07:07.440 but you're dealing with how are they 1:07:05.839,1:07:09.280 playing with each other 1:07:07.440,1:07:10.640 or like you said how is this one 1:07:09.280,1:07:13.039 particular app 1:07:10.640,1:07:14.880 going to scale where in magento you had 1:07:13.039,1:07:16.559 the same problem but you're dealing with 1:07:14.880,1:07:18.720 code level issues right so 1:07:16.559,1:07:21.200 is this extension written well is it 1:07:18.720,1:07:24.319 writing performant database queries 1:07:21.200,1:07:27.599 um whereas in a in a sas 1:07:24.319,1:07:29.520 app um mode 1:07:27.599,1:07:31.599 yeah yeah yeah you don't have as much 1:07:29.520,1:07:32.559 control and then you but it's funny 1:07:31.599,1:07:34.960 because 1:07:32.559,1:07:36.480 it's like the same issues in in 1:07:34.960,1:07:38.000 different ways 1:07:36.480,1:07:39.760 uh playing themselves out it's 1:07:38.000,1:07:41.280 interesting to kind of follow 1:07:39.760,1:07:43.520 when you're dealing with magento 1:07:41.280,1:07:45.119 extensions conflicting 1:07:43.520,1:07:47.280 you've got a good shot that you'll be 1:07:45.119,1:07:48.640 able to code your way out of that 1:07:47.280,1:07:49.839 whether it's the extension developers 1:07:48.640,1:07:50.720 that do it for you or your own 1:07:49.839,1:07:53.920 developers 1:07:50.720,1:07:55.920 you'll get there when it comes to sas 1:07:53.920,1:07:56.880 apps and this isn't specific a lot of 1:07:55.920,1:07:58.319 the things i've mentioned aren't 1:07:56.880,1:08:01.200 specific to shopify 1:07:58.319,1:08:02.480 sorry my friends at shopify for picking 1:08:01.200,1:08:05.839 on you a little there but 1:08:02.480,1:08:07.520 um but in general you know 1:08:05.839,1:08:09.359 i was involved in helping to build 1:08:07.520,1:08:10.000 shopify plus sites before it was 1:08:09.359,1:08:13.039 particularly 1:08:10.000,1:08:16.480 popular again perfectly good 1:08:13.039,1:08:18.719 platform for certain use cases 1:08:16.480,1:08:20.159 but when those apps don't work together 1:08:18.719,1:08:20.640 you're pretty much up a creek without a 1:08:20.159,1:08:22.400 paddle 1:08:20.640,1:08:24.719 because at that point you're usually 1:08:22.400,1:08:25.440 going to wind up trying to custom build 1:08:24.719,1:08:27.120 an app 1:08:25.440,1:08:29.440 and by the time that you're done custom 1:08:27.120,1:08:30.880 building and maintaining that app 1:08:29.440,1:08:32.880 you've pretty much written a bunch of 1:08:30.880,1:08:34.960 your own custom software why didn't you 1:08:32.880,1:08:37.520 just go open source 1:08:34.960,1:08:39.199 and i think that comes into play so 1:08:37.520,1:08:40.960 there are those use cases where someone 1:08:39.199,1:08:41.679 has a very straightforward retail 1:08:40.960,1:08:44.239 business 1:08:41.679,1:08:46.239 um they're doing an amount of revenue 1:08:44.239,1:08:46.640 and and have needs they're commensurate 1:08:46.239,1:08:48.400 with 1:08:46.640,1:08:50.319 this with what the sas platform is going 1:08:48.400,1:08:53.120 to deliver splendidly on 1:08:50.319,1:08:53.839 that's fantastic uh and i advise people 1:08:53.120,1:08:55.600 to go to 1:08:53.839,1:08:56.960 platforms like big commerce and in those 1:08:55.600,1:08:58.960 situations and 1:08:56.960,1:09:00.560 to work with these different range of 1:08:58.960,1:09:01.759 platforms and they have different 1:09:00.560,1:09:02.960 strengths and weaknesses you know 1:09:01.759,1:09:05.359 shopify their 1:09:02.960,1:09:07.120 their front-end theming uh you know 1:09:05.359,1:09:08.080 especially for like do-it-yourselfers 1:09:07.120,1:09:11.520 that sort of thing 1:09:08.080,1:09:13.040 is fantastic um you know for folks that 1:09:11.520,1:09:15.040 don't have developers and that again 1:09:13.040,1:09:17.440 just needs something that's gonna 1:09:15.040,1:09:19.359 do the job that you can launch a shopify 1:09:17.440,1:09:22.719 site pretty fast 1:09:19.359,1:09:25.839 on you know as a non-developer and be 1:09:22.719,1:09:26.880 you know reasonably satisfied uh at the 1:09:25.839,1:09:28.159 same time if you 1:09:26.880,1:09:29.359 if you're a more advanced user you're 1:09:28.159,1:09:30.560 gonna use a lot of apps you're gonna run 1:09:29.359,1:09:33.040 into conflicts 1:09:30.560,1:09:34.000 uh you may run into issues related to 1:09:33.040,1:09:36.000 the api because 1:09:34.000,1:09:37.679 that is throttled you know it's not your 1:09:36.000,1:09:41.359 site it's not your hosting 1:09:37.679,1:09:44.719 it's theirs and so there are 1:09:41.359,1:09:46.239 challenges that you can easily run into 1:09:44.719,1:09:47.679 they have been opening up more and i 1:09:46.239,1:09:48.719 think that's an interesting thing 1:09:47.679,1:09:50.560 happening in sas 1:09:48.719,1:09:52.319 that i heard the big commerce team 1:09:50.560,1:09:53.520 talking for a long time about open sass 1:09:52.319,1:09:55.280 and being able to 1:09:53.520,1:09:57.280 matter yeah yeah i've been thinking 1:09:55.280,1:09:59.920 about that a lot of api 1:09:57.280,1:10:01.760 uh connectivity to go headless or to do 1:09:59.920,1:10:05.840 these other things to give more freedom 1:10:01.760,1:10:08.320 because for years you know folks like um 1:10:05.840,1:10:10.159 shipper hq you know wanted to be able to 1:10:08.320,1:10:10.960 do things with shopify's checkout in 1:10:10.159,1:10:13.280 terms of 1:10:10.960,1:10:14.080 you know offering different shipping 1:10:13.280,1:10:15.920 options 1:10:14.080,1:10:17.280 and they were locked out of it um 1:10:15.920,1:10:19.040 because it it was sas 1:10:17.280,1:10:20.320 and the checkout was locked down which 1:10:19.040,1:10:21.920 you know may have some security and 1:10:20.320,1:10:23.440 other benefits but didn't allow for the 1:10:21.920,1:10:26.800 customization that some 1:10:23.440,1:10:29.120 businesses absolutely needed um 1:10:26.800,1:10:30.159 i'd argue that many businesses should 1:10:29.120,1:10:34.880 have 1:10:30.159,1:10:36.560 and so there's you know 1:10:34.880,1:10:38.400 i think the the biggest challenge for a 1:10:36.560,1:10:40.320 merchant is 1:10:38.400,1:10:41.760 talking to the right people before they 1:10:40.320,1:10:44.400 make a decision 1:10:41.760,1:10:45.600 that if you only talk to the sales team 1:10:44.400,1:10:48.239 at magento or 1:10:45.600,1:10:49.440 at shopify obviously they're going to 1:10:48.239,1:10:50.960 tell you why 1:10:49.440,1:10:53.040 they've got the best thing since sliced 1:10:50.960,1:10:55.199 bread 1:10:53.040,1:10:56.400 if you go to an agency that works on one 1:10:55.199,1:10:58.000 thing 1:10:56.400,1:10:59.760 and really doesn't have that additional 1:10:58.000,1:11:01.679 experience i think it's a challenge 1:10:59.760,1:11:03.600 um because it's it's hard to give that 1:11:01.679,1:11:05.920 feedback and in some cases 1:11:03.600,1:11:07.840 i uh last i knew in shopify's 1:11:05.920,1:11:09.440 partnership terms and conditions to be a 1:11:07.840,1:11:11.040 shopify partner 1:11:09.440,1:11:12.640 they suggested that you couldn't 1:11:11.040,1:11:14.239 recommend any other platform to a 1:11:12.640,1:11:17.360 shopify user 1:11:14.239,1:11:19.120 uh to which see this is this is like 1:11:17.360,1:11:20.960 like this is what i mean about these 1:11:19.120,1:11:22.239 like dynamics and the ecosystem and the 1:11:20.960,1:11:24.080 partner program 1:11:22.239,1:11:26.320 like people criticize magento of that 1:11:24.080,1:11:29.120 kind of thing in the past like all these 1:11:26.320,1:11:30.320 funny backs door deals with partners and 1:11:29.120,1:11:33.280 stuff like that 1:11:30.320,1:11:35.679 i i'm told by magento partners on a 1:11:33.280,1:11:38.960 regular basis by these agencies that 1:11:35.679,1:11:41.199 if they don't um recommend magento 1:11:38.960,1:11:42.640 commerce cloud magento's host exactly 1:11:41.199,1:11:44.480 that they're not going to see any leads 1:11:42.640,1:11:47.440 moving forward they're not going to be 1:11:44.480,1:11:49.600 you know they're going to lose uh 1:11:47.440,1:11:50.400 benefit there from the relationship and 1:11:49.600,1:11:52.640 so 1:11:50.400,1:11:55.120 um there are hot button topics now you 1:11:52.640,1:11:58.080 know who's enforcing certain things 1:11:55.120,1:11:59.040 is it holistic across the board is it 1:11:58.080,1:12:01.440 you know i mean i 1:11:59.040,1:12:03.360 again i i want to go back to my earlier 1:12:01.440,1:12:05.440 statement about not being 1:12:03.360,1:12:07.040 a conspiracy theorist i'll believe what 1:12:05.440,1:12:08.719 multiple people are telling me is very 1:12:07.040,1:12:10.400 directly happening and that 1:12:08.719,1:12:12.159 it's being directly reported by other 1:12:10.400,1:12:15.120 members of the community 1:12:12.159,1:12:16.400 and it's not really disputed but at the 1:12:15.120,1:12:20.239 same time i 1:12:16.400,1:12:22.560 i think that these partner programs 1:12:20.239,1:12:23.840 they have a major impact and so going 1:12:22.560,1:12:26.880 back to magento 1:12:23.840,1:12:29.840 the magento ecosystem i believe 1:12:26.880,1:12:30.800 is what fueled magento's growth it 1:12:29.840,1:12:33.920 wasn't 1:12:30.800,1:12:36.159 magento's marketing um well yes they had 1:12:33.920,1:12:38.320 booths at trade shows and yes um they 1:12:36.159,1:12:40.159 hosted events and yes they did things 1:12:38.320,1:12:42.080 it wasn't that they had a huge sales 1:12:40.159,1:12:43.679 team that was hitting the ground 1:12:42.080,1:12:45.440 um you know reaching out to every 1:12:43.679,1:12:48.400 merchant trying to get them onto 1:12:45.440,1:12:49.360 the platform as a starter or uh you know 1:12:48.400,1:12:53.520 that they were 1:12:49.360,1:12:57.120 you know terribly engaged in the market 1:12:53.520,1:13:00.000 um to get every single user 1:12:57.120,1:13:01.040 uh at least not not consistently through 1:13:00.000,1:13:04.560 the years 1:13:01.040,1:13:06.159 uh i think that the ecosystem has 1:13:04.560,1:13:09.199 suffered and i think that that's 1:13:06.159,1:13:09.920 part of where um we've seen more of 1:13:09.199,1:13:12.640 these 1:13:09.920,1:13:14.400 uh agencies look at partnering with 1:13:12.640,1:13:15.360 other platforms and look at building 1:13:14.400,1:13:18.159 other 1:13:15.360,1:13:19.360 solutions part of it is that there are 1:13:18.159,1:13:21.120 users so let's say 1:13:19.360,1:13:23.440 you know i mean i dealt with this years 1:13:21.120,1:13:24.560 ago as an agency that you know magento 2 1:13:23.440,1:13:28.159 came out in 1:13:24.560,1:13:29.679 the end of 2015 and it was 1:13:28.159,1:13:32.400 it still should have been an alpha 1:13:29.679,1:13:34.000 forget beta um it was rough it was rough 1:13:32.400,1:13:37.520 around the edges it was new 1:13:34.000,1:13:39.679 um and we had people that 1:13:37.520,1:13:41.760 we were talking about builds with and it 1:13:39.679,1:13:44.239 was like well if we build you on magento 1:13:41.760,1:13:46.480 2 i have to budget 1:13:44.239,1:13:48.080 multiple because we're going to be 1:13:46.480,1:13:49.760 debugging this for a while 1:13:48.080,1:13:51.440 and it's going to take longer to launch 1:13:49.760,1:13:52.480 it's going to cost more to maintain 1:13:51.440,1:13:54.239 there are things that there aren't 1:13:52.480,1:13:55.120 extensions available for yet new 1:13:54.239,1:13:56.800 software 1:13:55.120,1:13:58.400 um that we're going to need to custom 1:13:56.800,1:14:00.560 write extensions for you 1:13:58.400,1:14:01.760 um there's going gonna there's gonna be 1:14:00.560,1:14:04.320 a cost of being an 1:14:01.760,1:14:05.840 earlier adopter nothing that we all 1:14:04.320,1:14:06.560 haven't seen before in tech in other 1:14:05.840,1:14:10.560 ways 1:14:06.560,1:14:11.280 uh and so their choice was go to magento 1:14:10.560,1:14:14.960 one 1:14:11.280,1:14:18.000 or go to the go to magento 2 but 1:14:14.960,1:14:21.440 would be a test dummy um 1:14:18.000,1:14:24.159 and pay pay a price for that uh you know 1:14:21.440,1:14:25.120 not just in time and effort but in 1:14:24.159,1:14:27.920 dollars 1:14:25.120,1:14:29.280 uh and so at that point we really 1:14:27.920,1:14:30.800 started to see more demand and we'd 1:14:29.280,1:14:32.800 already seen a little bit of it 1:14:30.800,1:14:34.120 um in magenta one there'd been patches 1:14:32.800,1:14:37.679 like super 1:14:34.120,1:14:38.640 6788 um that changed some admin pathing 1:14:37.679,1:14:40.560 some routing and 1:14:38.640,1:14:42.159 and so all the extensions needed to be 1:14:40.560,1:14:43.920 updated and there were you know magento 1:14:42.159,1:14:45.840 sites that had dozens of extensions and 1:14:43.920,1:14:46.640 the hours that it took to download and 1:14:45.840,1:14:48.960 update 1:14:46.640,1:14:49.679 and test and deal with all those 1:14:48.960,1:14:52.560 extensions 1:14:49.679,1:14:53.840 it was a lot of hours at agency rates to 1:14:52.560,1:14:55.440 charge a user 1:14:53.840,1:14:58.800 and they got a bill that they weren't 1:14:55.440,1:15:02.239 accustomed to the same with super 7405 1:14:58.800,1:15:03.600 there was a um it was a patch 1:15:02.239,1:15:06.000 not if i remember correctly my 1:15:03.600,1:15:07.199 chronology wasn't that long after 6788 1:15:06.000,1:15:08.080 and it was a dud it needed to be 1:15:07.199,1:15:09.679 repatched 1:15:08.080,1:15:11.679 and so now people had to pay twice in a 1:15:09.679,1:15:13.920 row in a short period of time 1:15:11.679,1:15:15.679 um and we started to feel pushback from 1:15:13.920,1:15:16.560 the market as more and more patches were 1:15:15.679,1:15:18.480 coming out 1:15:16.560,1:15:19.760 and as they were in some cases less 1:15:18.480,1:15:22.000 predictable in terms 1:15:19.760,1:15:24.000 and more expensive to manage where we 1:15:22.000,1:15:25.840 saw that people like the platform 1:15:24.000,1:15:27.280 but they weren't necessarily prepared to 1:15:25.840,1:15:30.320 pay at 1:15:27.280,1:15:31.520 us rates at least i can't speak for for 1:15:30.320,1:15:35.360 everyone else but let's say we were at 1:15:31.520,1:15:37.840 125 or 150 an hour depending on the year 1:15:35.360,1:15:39.360 that not everyone was thrilled about and 1:15:37.840,1:15:40.719 at the same time sas was coming up and 1:15:39.360,1:15:41.840 so we found that those merchants that 1:15:40.719,1:15:43.360 weren't thrilled they were typically 1:15:41.840,1:15:45.199 doing maybe a few hundred thousand 1:15:43.360,1:15:46.719 dollars in online revenue 1:15:45.199,1:15:48.320 it didn't make a tremendous amount of 1:15:46.719,1:15:50.480 sense to budget for 1:15:48.320,1:15:53.120 the amount of maintenance needed and so 1:15:50.480,1:15:55.920 when it came time to look at going to 1:15:53.120,1:15:57.760 uh magento 2 also originally expecting 1:15:55.920,1:15:59.280 magento one was supposed to go into life 1:15:57.760,1:16:02.480 in 2018 1:15:59.280,1:16:05.040 um the conversation became and we 1:16:02.480,1:16:06.400 advised as an agency look you know we 1:16:05.040,1:16:08.320 you know we can take you on to this 1:16:06.400,1:16:10.159 platform or this and we gave them 1:16:08.320,1:16:11.600 uh a little bit of a look at which was 1:16:10.159,1:16:13.199 better and we had partnerships with all 1:16:11.600,1:16:16.560 these different platforms 1:16:13.199,1:16:18.640 um and i think it was an 1:16:16.560,1:16:20.480 important experience and so that 1:16:18.640,1:16:22.640 happened early on 1:16:20.480,1:16:24.239 um the larger users were absolutely 1:16:22.640,1:16:25.920 going to stay on magento and some were 1:16:24.239,1:16:29.120 going to start moving to magento 1:16:25.920,1:16:29.120 too sooner than later 1:16:29.360,1:16:32.880 but a lot of this comes down to the 1:16:31.040,1:16:34.960 specifics like just about everything 1:16:32.880,1:16:37.280 else in life 1:16:34.960,1:16:39.199 and so i i can go back to those those 1:16:37.280,1:16:40.239 memories of having to sort through that 1:16:39.199,1:16:44.560 and really 1:16:40.239,1:16:48.320 you know that experience um you know led 1:16:44.560,1:16:51.520 me as a leader of an agency to really 1:16:48.320,1:16:53.120 uh expand i'll i'll add a caveat that we 1:16:51.520,1:16:54.000 did a lot of digital marketing so we 1:16:53.120,1:16:55.920 were really 1:16:54.000,1:16:57.199 pretty well balanced between the design 1:16:55.920,1:16:58.960 and development side of the house and 1:16:57.199,1:17:00.000 the digital marketing side which is not 1:16:58.960,1:17:02.560 as common 1:17:00.000,1:17:04.239 in the agency world um and so we were 1:17:02.560,1:17:05.440 google premier partners we were in the 1:17:04.239,1:17:08.719 top three percent of 1:17:05.440,1:17:11.360 google had partners in the world and uh 1:17:08.719,1:17:13.840 we you know we did a lot of great stuff 1:17:11.360,1:17:16.320 with seo social media email marketing 1:17:13.840,1:17:17.840 um and so we weren't completely reliant 1:17:16.320,1:17:21.120 on the dev side 1:17:17.840,1:17:22.960 for all revenue there was a balance but 1:17:21.120,1:17:24.320 we could partner with any platform 1:17:22.960,1:17:26.960 because to run google ads 1:17:24.320,1:17:27.920 you know i had strong relationships with 1:17:26.960,1:17:31.199 teams at 1:17:27.920,1:17:33.600 meva x-cart 1:17:31.199,1:17:35.360 all sorts of companies where we didn't 1:17:33.600,1:17:37.920 necessarily do a lot of work building 1:17:35.360,1:17:40.000 the sites 1:17:37.920,1:17:42.080 we maybe we designed for for the sites 1:17:40.000,1:17:44.239 but didn't do as much development 1:17:42.080,1:17:45.920 but we had great relationships with the 1:17:44.239,1:17:46.800 teams and and were able to really 1:17:45.920,1:17:49.040 provide 1:17:46.800,1:17:51.280 additional services value-added services 1:17:49.040,1:17:53.760 marketing services 1:17:51.280,1:17:54.320 and so perhaps you know i already had my 1:17:53.760,1:17:56.239 feet 1:17:54.320,1:17:57.600 my toes dipping into other waters and it 1:17:56.239,1:18:00.960 was easier 1:17:57.600,1:18:02.560 because of that um to that i knew what 1:18:00.960,1:18:04.480 some of these platforms were up to and 1:18:02.560,1:18:06.000 which were going to be strong at what 1:18:04.480,1:18:07.679 and so it was easier to have that 1:18:06.000,1:18:09.600 relationship with the shopify team and 1:18:07.679,1:18:11.679 with the big commerce team and 1:18:09.600,1:18:13.360 um and to understand who was going to be 1:18:11.679,1:18:15.280 a good use case and where 1:18:13.360,1:18:16.800 but that that's always been a challenge 1:18:15.280,1:18:18.159 for the market and i think it it still 1:18:16.800,1:18:20.560 is to this day 1:18:18.159,1:18:21.679 that i run into merchants that make a 1:18:20.560,1:18:24.239 choice whether it's 1:18:21.679,1:18:24.800 commerce cloud or whether it's um going 1:18:24.239,1:18:26.560 to 1:18:24.800,1:18:28.320 you know shopify or this platform or 1:18:26.560,1:18:29.920 that platform or whatever it may be 1:18:28.320,1:18:32.000 that there's an amount of buyers remorse 1:18:29.920,1:18:33.199 or something the grass is always greener 1:18:32.000,1:18:36.239 on the other side 1:18:33.199,1:18:38.000 so they focus on the cool new 1:18:36.239,1:18:39.440 you know what on the pain point that 1:18:38.000,1:18:41.840 they're they're going to resolve 1:18:39.440,1:18:42.480 and they don't really focus on all the 1:18:41.840,1:18:44.159 other 1:18:42.480,1:18:45.600 they don't do a risk analysis that's the 1:18:44.159,1:18:48.880 missing component here 1:18:45.600,1:18:50.000 um i think that you know at least when 1:18:48.880,1:18:52.320 you get to any certain 1:18:50.000,1:18:54.239 size of scale mid-market there's really 1:18:52.320,1:18:55.840 should be a risk analysis of if i go 1:18:54.239,1:18:58.800 with this platform 1:18:55.840,1:19:01.280 um what are the what are the cons not 1:18:58.800,1:19:04.480 just the pros 1:19:01.280,1:19:06.159 that i've found is is a rarity 1:19:04.480,1:19:08.880 in the industry and and i think a lot of 1:19:06.159,1:19:10.400 merchants uh get 1:19:08.880,1:19:12.239 you know get knocked around like a 1:19:10.400,1:19:14.080 tennis ball because of it 1:19:12.239,1:19:16.080 from you know that they will go back and 1:19:14.080,1:19:17.600 forth with platforms 1:19:16.080,1:19:19.040 yeah that's an interesting way to phrase 1:19:17.600,1:19:20.840 it a risk analysis because because 1:19:19.040,1:19:22.480 merchants will go through platform 1:19:20.840,1:19:24.239 selection um 1:19:22.480,1:19:26.640 and things like that but i like that 1:19:24.239,1:19:28.400 idea of listen you're doing a risk 1:19:26.640,1:19:30.000 it doesn't mean there's necessarily one 1:19:28.400,1:19:31.840 platform that's going to be best that's 1:19:30.000,1:19:33.679 going to solve all your needs but 1:19:31.840,1:19:35.360 you're going to have to balance out all 1:19:33.679,1:19:37.840 of the different risks 1:19:35.360,1:19:38.719 and potential benefits i like that 1:19:37.840,1:19:40.640 framing 1:19:38.719,1:19:42.400 but uh robert we're a bit we're at our 1:19:40.640,1:19:43.280 time here the kids are knocking down my 1:19:42.400,1:19:46.320 door 1:19:43.280,1:19:48.000 uh it was fun to catch up with you 1:19:46.320,1:19:49.440 uh where's the best place for people to 1:19:48.000,1:19:53.360 find you online 1:19:49.440,1:19:54.159 um well they can find jet rails at jet 1:19:53.360,1:19:55.840 rails on 1:19:54.159,1:19:57.280 you know pretty much anywhere that you 1:19:55.840,1:19:59.679 can think of 1:19:57.280,1:20:00.640 they can find me on linkedin easily 1:19:59.679,1:20:03.679 robert 1:20:00.640,1:20:08.480 dot r jetrails.com drop me a line love 1:20:03.679,1:20:08.480 to hear from folks