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#93 Magento Master, Ecommerce Agency CTO & Marathon Runner | Danny Verkade

Danny Verkade is a Magento Master and the CTO at Cream, a Magento-specialized development agency based out of the Netherlands.

Transcript
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uh no an online happy hour yeah oh

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online oh okay okay yeah that's cool

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how do you how do you uh how do you

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organize that you just

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get on slack and zoom or video calls and

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just kind of

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drink together or like how how

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[Music]

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dividing your time uh between cream and

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doll's kill how's that going for you

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um pretty solid um i think the

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the time difference is my advantage um

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so they're based in san francisco and

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uh i'm i'm currently in the netherlands

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so

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i do a lot of work at night as well

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which is more in their time zone

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do uh how do you like what does your

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schedule look like

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um to you know working at night can

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sometimes be difficult because it can

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kind of

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disrupt your rhythms a little bit like

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do you have a good schedule with gym

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time and all the

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you know different things kind of

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balanced out

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well currently gym time's a little bit

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less because it's quite busy

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we're building a new house so that's the

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project that i'm doing

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as well as at work of course so normally

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i would start at 9am with a standup

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and we introduced that one

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when we were going remote

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fully so every morning stand up

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everybody

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says what they they've been doing last

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uh the last day

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and any blockers they they're having

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and try to unblock uh unblock the team

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um and then we got to start up

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with dole skill at uh

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seven for me seven p.m 7 p.m

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okay yep yeah that's a full day

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yeah that's definitely a full day yeah

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and you're building a house you're like

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building a new a new home

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yep wow that's awesome um

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so we bought a piece of land like a year

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ago and

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uh you're currently building uh building

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our new house

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that's cool yeah it's just another like

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two or three months and then

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we should be moving in there so uh okay

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that's really really cool to see

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everything that you imagined

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on paper now coming uh coming together

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and

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they're building it so uh right

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is um because that's it's pretty common

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out here in um

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in texas for people to you know get some

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land and build a house

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um which is new for me because i grew up

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in california and it's not

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very common there um is it common in the

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netherlands to to do that

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um well they're doing a lot of new

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builds

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um but mostly those are row houses

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or apartments so having a piece of land

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and building a

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detached house is definitely uh

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something that's not as common

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especially as in the us where like a lot

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of house drug dealers never land

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yeah yeah so you have to find a builder

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and everything like that or you already

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found a builder yeah

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yep yeah and it's not that well you can

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take different routes you can go to an

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architect and like they design

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everything from the ground up

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uh but instead we opted for a

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yeah it's not really like a model home

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but um kind of the basic concept is

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there and you can build it out to your

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own specs

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whatever you like so you can change the

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width the height

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the the dimensions of the of the home

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as well as well everything outside as

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well as

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the inside as well so

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tweak the padding the margins yeah

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the stones the grouts uh like everything

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you can choose and pick my wife is

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obsessed with the grout

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recently uh lately in our floor because

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it's been about three years and the

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grout is a little dirty and i don't

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really even notice it

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at all but it like it drives her insane

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it's like all that she talks about

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lately and uh

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she got some some special cleaner um

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that actually worked really well to

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clean it because we tried a bunch of

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different

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stuff and she finally found something

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that that cleans it well

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um but it's a lot of work and you can

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seal it right

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you can seal it yeah so she's thinking

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about

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we got to get it cleaned and then get it

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sealed

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but i think sealant only lasts it

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doesn't really i don't think it lasts

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forever because when i was like seeing

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like a patio yeah you need to reapply it

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to it like every

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year maybe or two years something like

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that

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um probably depends on how heavily you

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use it and stuff like that but

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it's always one thing or another with a

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house right

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now yeah um

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so what uh what kind of magento stuff

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have you been doing lately

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um well obviously magento 2.4 upgrades

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yeah as well as venturing a little bit

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into

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into headless of course in pwa uh um

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yeah but um

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i've seen quite a few products of

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projects fill

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um with the headless architecture so

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it's kind of

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interesting to see where adobe is going

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with uh

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with pwa and pwi studio

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as well as the new hyper thin theme from

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uh windham

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which is also an interesting concept so

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just today we had a little discussion uh

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internally with the team on uh

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which direction we need to go

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nice and and so the projects that you've

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seen

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uh fail on headless what's that what

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does that look like what's what have

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been the

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challenges that you've seen people run

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into

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um well the first one that filled was

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like two

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years ago yeah more than two years ago

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almost two and a half years ago

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and magento didn't have all the end

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points at that point so there's a lot of

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customizations that need to be done

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there

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um the second one failed

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basically due to checkout not being

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being up and running and compatible with

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the

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pwa uh etcetera

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gotcha and um have you been

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uh what what uh pwa um frameworks have

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you been working with pwa studio mostly

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or something short functions yeah

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and internally we looked at pwa studio

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to be as close as to

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the magento core product as possible

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and if you look at that product

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currently there's like no

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inheritance or theming in place it's

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just more like a building set

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so we had a discussion about if it's

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feasible for agencies to build

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up on pwa studio because basically for

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every product

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project you need to build your

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team again instead of like inherent

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a basic theme and customize it onto the

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client's needs

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we definitely see that that magento is

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moving

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more upmarket especially with such a

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solution

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um where it kind of looks like there

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need to be a team in place for a single

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project

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in order to get that pwa studio upper

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running

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instead of an agency which does multiple

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projects at a single time

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gotcha yeah there's a level of

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difficulty there

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as far as the api endpoints go is that

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is that getting better

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api coverage yeah for sure

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um i think the most vital ones are

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already there with 2.4

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there are additional endpoints as well

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so you you

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see that they keep on adding them so

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that that's definitely going in the

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right direction

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[Music]

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and uh the hivea theme is it looks

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pretty interesting right a lot of people

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are pretty excited about that yeah

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because even if you run a pwa studio

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application or

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view storefront application through a

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google page speed

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it's still not that great um definitely

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better than

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out of the box magento luma theme um but

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still like

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50 60 page speed score on mobile

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um whereas the ipad theme at least the

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demo is looking uh

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looking really fast not only from a user

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perspective but also within google page

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speed as well

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yeah it's pretty cool um are you doing a

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lot of development yourself these days

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or more

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team leadership and architecture and

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stuff

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i tried to do the development as well i

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think it's like 50 50 currently

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something around that

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that's a good split keep your hands in

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the code a little bit

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you want to keep up right yeah

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yeah that's cool um and so

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um what uh what are some of the things

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that that you're interested in

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and working on lately i mean you

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mentioned some of the pwa projects

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failed and some 2.4 upgrades

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with some of the stuff you're doing that

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you're kind of the most excited about

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right now

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um well moving moving dole skill to

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magenta too

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that's uh that's really an interesting

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project

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nice and what's uh

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you probably can't i don't know you know

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whatever level of detail you're able to

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get into

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what are some of the components of that

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that you're that you're working on

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um well the data migration currently and

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that's uh that's an interesting part

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because they're

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it's a store with around 500 000 skus in

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there

0:10:34.240,0:10:41.440
a lot of order data a lot of sales data

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um so migrating data is uh

0:10:41.440,0:10:46.000
is an interesting uh interesting part of

0:10:44.320,0:10:47.920
the project especially with the with a

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large amount of data that needs to be

0:10:47.920,0:10:51.839
moved over from magento one to magento

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two right

0:10:51.839,0:10:55.360
right you're running into all kinds of

0:10:53.360,0:10:59.360
legacy stuff as well so uh

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right you need to cope with

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right and do you have like an erp or a

0:11:02.320,0:11:05.279
pim

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in in the middle of there yeah there's

0:11:05.279,0:11:09.120
an erp behind it

0:11:06.640,0:11:11.120
um which is pushing data into magento

0:11:09.120,0:11:12.800
one

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and that data needs to be migrated over

0:11:12.800,0:11:17.920
to magenta too

0:11:14.560,0:11:20.320
right right nice man

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how's um how's everything going for you

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guys i think you mentioned starting to

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kind of work remotely and stuff like

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that

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how's everything going during covid and

0:11:26.480,0:11:30.160
all the

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transitions that you're having to deal

0:11:30.160,0:11:33.040
with

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[Laughter]

0:11:33.040,0:11:38.000
yeah i love the transition uh so

0:11:36.240,0:11:40.399
basically i came back at the end of

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february from san francisco

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was back in the office here and within

0:11:42.800,0:11:46.959
two weeks

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situation was deteriorating so much that

0:11:46.959,0:11:52.399
um

0:11:49.360,0:11:56.480
her government said well if you can work

0:11:52.399,0:11:59.600
remotely you have to work remotely

0:11:56.480,0:12:04.639
and that was on a first day

0:11:59.600,0:12:08.160
night so

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yeah we decided to for we needed to work

0:12:08.160,0:12:10.959
remotely from that point so we decided

0:12:09.920,0:12:12.959
to call in the team

0:12:10.959,0:12:15.360
on friday morning they had like an hour

0:12:12.959,0:12:17.200
to come in and

0:12:15.360,0:12:18.800
we said well we don't know how long this

0:12:17.200,0:12:20.399
will take

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take everything that you need with you

0:12:20.399,0:12:26.160
make sure that you have a good

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workplace at home um

0:12:26.160,0:12:30.639
and then from monday next monday we were

0:12:29.040,0:12:34.160
remote

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and i think like uh three quarters of

0:12:34.160,0:12:38.390
the team didn't get

0:12:35.839,0:12:39.920
into the office anymore up until now

0:12:38.390,0:12:42.959
[Music]

0:12:39.920,0:12:46.800
how's that been for you

0:12:42.959,0:12:48.639
um interesting because well

0:12:46.800,0:12:49.920
some some parts were quite easy right

0:12:48.639,0:12:51.680
because there was

0:12:49.920,0:12:53.040
first we were all in the office and then

0:12:51.680,0:12:55.920
we were just

0:12:53.040,0:12:58.079
all remote so everybody was in the same

0:12:55.920,0:13:01.200
position

0:12:58.079,0:13:03.200
instead of a team which is doing

0:13:01.200,0:13:04.720
part in office partly remote i think

0:13:03.200,0:13:08.399
that would be more difficult

0:13:04.720,0:13:08.399
to do and

0:13:08.880,0:13:12.959
yeah i think we moved fast

0:13:13.440,0:13:17.920
and some people had more had bigger

0:13:16.480,0:13:20.480
issues coping with the change than

0:13:17.920,0:13:23.680
others of course

0:13:20.480,0:13:26.480
but yeah it's not too bad

0:13:23.680,0:13:27.519
actually that's cool any any particular

0:13:26.480,0:13:30.880
tools or

0:13:27.519,0:13:33.200
um workflows that have been helpful

0:13:30.880,0:13:34.560
for you guys to kind of stay on the same

0:13:33.200,0:13:36.079
page and

0:13:34.560,0:13:38.639
yeah we were already using slack

0:13:36.079,0:13:42.240
internally uh using jira for

0:13:38.639,0:13:44.079
for support and tickets uh we documented

0:13:42.240,0:13:44.880
a lot in confluence so that's already

0:13:44.079,0:13:47.279
there

0:13:44.880,0:13:49.440
and what we did is that we upgraded to

0:13:47.279,0:13:51.360
the premium flag channel

0:13:49.440,0:13:53.839
in order to have the ability to call

0:13:51.360,0:13:59.279
each other and share screens

0:13:53.839,0:14:02.320
and yeah that's about it

0:13:59.279,0:14:05.120
that's cool yeah i recently started um

0:14:02.320,0:14:08.160
playing around with discord a little bit

0:14:05.120,0:14:11.199
and um they have this cool voice uh

0:14:08.160,0:14:13.040
feature um where there's basically like

0:14:11.199,0:14:14.480
voice channels that you can go into and

0:14:13.040,0:14:17.600
just randomly

0:14:14.480,0:14:19.440
talk with voice and it's uh

0:14:17.600,0:14:21.120
it's a neat way to just you know kind of

0:14:19.440,0:14:22.800
communicate on the fly

0:14:21.120,0:14:24.639
without even having to do video it's

0:14:22.800,0:14:27.279
just a little bit simpler

0:14:24.639,0:14:28.000
um so it's kind of cool have you used

0:14:27.279,0:14:30.959
discord

0:14:28.000,0:14:32.079
much at all not at all so i need to look

0:14:30.959,0:14:35.279
into that one

0:14:32.079,0:14:37.760
yeah yeah it's pretty cool

0:14:35.279,0:14:39.519
um yeah one thing that's interesting as

0:14:37.760,0:14:42.880
well is to to like

0:14:39.519,0:14:45.839
keep your company culture um

0:14:42.880,0:14:47.519
that's a little bit harder uh to do so

0:14:45.839,0:14:51.199
we try to do uh

0:14:47.519,0:14:55.199
um every friday uh

0:14:51.199,0:14:59.120
uh friday evening the uh um

0:14:55.199,0:15:00.240
uh the happy hour where a few people uh

0:14:59.120,0:15:03.760
come in and join

0:15:00.240,0:15:05.920
um we did a a pub quiz

0:15:03.760,0:15:07.519
with the team um and now we're trying to

0:15:05.920,0:15:08.800
come up with something around christmas

0:15:07.519,0:15:11.440
so

0:15:08.800,0:15:13.199
that's cool so like an in-person happy

0:15:11.440,0:15:15.440
hour

0:15:13.199,0:15:17.600
uh no an online happy hour yeah online

0:15:15.440,0:15:20.240
oh okay okay yeah that's cool

0:15:17.600,0:15:21.519
how do you how do you uh how do you

0:15:20.240,0:15:24.560
organize that you just

0:15:21.519,0:15:27.120
get on slack and zoom or

0:15:24.560,0:15:29.440
video calls and just kind of drink

0:15:27.120,0:15:32.000
together or like how do you

0:15:29.440,0:15:32.560
yeah it's a little bit different though

0:15:32.000,0:15:34.560
because

0:15:32.560,0:15:36.399
most of the time with a real happy hour

0:15:34.560,0:15:38.800
people can talk to each other and here's

0:15:36.399,0:15:40.720
more like one

0:15:38.800,0:15:42.160
somebody is telling something and the

0:15:40.720,0:15:44.639
rest is listening

0:15:42.160,0:15:45.279
um so i don't think the group can be too

0:15:44.639,0:15:47.519
large but

0:15:45.279,0:15:48.639
with with four or five or six people

0:15:47.519,0:15:50.320
it's yeah it's definitely

0:15:48.639,0:15:53.279
it's pretty good yeah yeah it's pretty

0:15:50.320,0:15:53.279
good yeah that's

0:15:53.600,0:15:56.959
stay cool touch as well with everybody

0:15:55.120,0:15:59.199
so right right

0:15:56.959,0:16:00.959
um how are you like checking in on the

0:15:59.199,0:16:03.040
team to make sure

0:16:00.959,0:16:05.440
like people are doing okay if there's

0:16:03.040,0:16:08.240
any extra support they need

0:16:05.440,0:16:08.639
um kind of trying to see how people on

0:16:08.240,0:16:11.040
the team

0:16:08.639,0:16:12.399
are doing like if they're doing their

0:16:11.040,0:16:14.639
work correctly or more like

0:16:12.399,0:16:16.160
work or just yeah like mental health

0:16:14.639,0:16:16.800
like like mental health like how they're

0:16:16.160,0:16:20.000
doing

0:16:16.800,0:16:22.720
you know overall yeah work related

0:16:20.000,0:16:23.199
you have to stand up every morning where

0:16:22.720,0:16:25.360
you

0:16:23.199,0:16:27.199
review your work from yesterday and tell

0:16:25.360,0:16:28.959
your upcoming day and if you're blocked

0:16:27.199,0:16:32.079
by anything so

0:16:28.959,0:16:32.800
that's pretty solid uh mental health at

0:16:32.079,0:16:35.279
rise

0:16:32.800,0:16:37.839
we with the management tree team try to

0:16:35.279,0:16:40.160
connect with everybody once in a while

0:16:37.839,0:16:43.680
to make sure to have a little chit chat

0:16:40.160,0:16:46.480
about how how it's going what their

0:16:43.680,0:16:49.440
what they're feeling and if uh if

0:16:46.480,0:16:50.959
they're mentally doing okay as well

0:16:49.440,0:16:53.120
check in on them regularly that's cool

0:16:50.959,0:16:56.639
yeah yeah for sure yeah

0:16:53.120,0:16:58.399
um so cream your your agency's dutch

0:16:56.639,0:17:01.279
e-commerce agency

0:16:58.399,0:17:02.480
um and like what what um what kind of

0:17:01.279,0:17:05.360
makes you guys unique

0:17:02.480,0:17:06.079
what um obviously magento emphasis i'm

0:17:05.360,0:17:08.959
sure you have

0:17:06.079,0:17:09.280
but what um what do you guys specialize

0:17:08.959,0:17:12.799
in

0:17:09.280,0:17:14.640
and focus on you're definitely a magenta

0:17:12.799,0:17:18.079
agency of course

0:17:14.640,0:17:20.640
we're currently with a team of 14.

0:17:18.079,0:17:22.640
so midsize agency and we're doing

0:17:20.640,0:17:25.600
mid-size level projects

0:17:22.640,0:17:25.600
for our customers

0:17:25.839,0:17:29.360
and i think we we specialize really in

0:17:28.400,0:17:30.960
magento and

0:17:29.360,0:17:32.640
we're really good at the work that we do

0:17:30.960,0:17:35.440
and that we deliver on time

0:17:32.640,0:17:35.440
and on budget

0:17:36.720,0:17:42.799
it's always good it's always important

0:17:40.880,0:17:44.480
what's um what's your feeling on the

0:17:42.799,0:17:46.080
magento community right now so you're on

0:17:44.480,0:17:49.520
the board of the association

0:17:46.080,0:17:52.720
right um how do you feel

0:17:49.520,0:17:55.039
like like how are things going with the

0:17:52.720,0:17:58.240
association kind of in general

0:17:55.039,0:18:01.200
right now um what are some things that

0:17:58.240,0:18:02.880
you know are top of mind for you

0:18:01.200,0:18:04.480
so regarding the association we're

0:18:02.880,0:18:06.320
definitely not at the point where we

0:18:04.480,0:18:06.880
would like to be at this time or where

0:18:06.320,0:18:10.960
we

0:18:06.880,0:18:10.960
thought we would be in at this time um

0:18:11.039,0:18:14.720
we've struggled a little bit with

0:18:12.480,0:18:17.840
funding that's now in place

0:18:14.720,0:18:19.600
we're currently discussing the budget

0:18:17.840,0:18:22.799
for 2021

0:18:19.600,0:18:25.679
and some really interesting plans there

0:18:22.799,0:18:27.200
and interesting programs that hopefully

0:18:25.679,0:18:30.320
we could share

0:18:27.200,0:18:34.160
pretty soon with everybody else yeah

0:18:30.320,0:18:36.320
so definitely progress there um

0:18:34.160,0:18:38.880
took some time but uh we're getting

0:18:36.320,0:18:40.880
there slowly

0:18:38.880,0:18:42.240
so that's yeah definitely interesting to

0:18:40.880,0:18:45.039
to watch as well

0:18:42.240,0:18:46.880
okay and so like one of the things i

0:18:45.039,0:18:50.640
wonder about with the association is

0:18:46.880,0:18:54.320
um is it mostly about

0:18:50.640,0:18:55.280
organizing events um is there going to

0:18:54.320,0:18:58.000
be some

0:18:55.280,0:19:00.400
management of the open source project

0:18:58.000,0:19:03.760
like i think the drupal association has

0:19:00.400,0:19:05.760
some more involvement in managing the

0:19:03.760,0:19:07.840
actual open source project or is it sort

0:19:05.760,0:19:11.600
of primarily events

0:19:07.840,0:19:14.799
or is that so you know um

0:19:11.600,0:19:16.799
the association started of course um

0:19:14.799,0:19:18.480
with the meat magenta association so

0:19:16.799,0:19:20.320
that's kind of our roots

0:19:18.480,0:19:22.000
so events will definitely have a place

0:19:20.320,0:19:24.640
there um

0:19:22.000,0:19:26.640
but we yeah we are venturing into

0:19:24.640,0:19:30.480
different items as well

0:19:26.640,0:19:34.080
and and of course we're discussing

0:19:30.480,0:19:39.039
uh how we can get involved

0:19:34.080,0:19:42.799
with open source um as well as a program

0:19:39.039,0:19:43.919
gotcha tbd yeah yeah for sure to be

0:19:42.799,0:19:47.280
determined

0:19:43.919,0:19:49.919
and that that depends on adobe

0:19:47.280,0:19:51.200
as well um we really don't know what

0:19:49.919,0:19:54.320
what their

0:19:51.200,0:19:55.760
goal is or their their bigger their

0:19:54.320,0:19:59.200
bigger aim is with

0:19:55.760,0:19:59.200
with magenta open source

0:20:00.000,0:20:03.360
so definitely something that we need to

0:20:01.440,0:20:06.080
watch right

0:20:03.360,0:20:06.799
are you um are you uh contributing on

0:20:06.080,0:20:09.520
github

0:20:06.799,0:20:12.000
um these days pretty actively are you

0:20:09.520,0:20:16.159
busy with other stuff

0:20:12.000,0:20:18.559
i've been contributing a bit

0:20:16.159,0:20:20.720
a couple of years back and and well of

0:20:18.559,0:20:21.280
course you still look at the open issues

0:20:20.720,0:20:23.840
try to

0:20:21.280,0:20:24.880
uh if you find a bug and an edit there

0:20:23.840,0:20:28.000
as well but

0:20:24.880,0:20:28.880
um i'm i've haven't actively resolved

0:20:28.000,0:20:31.679
any issues

0:20:28.880,0:20:33.200
i think for the past couple of months so

0:20:31.679,0:20:35.679
okay

0:20:33.200,0:20:37.360
yeah got a lot going on it's funny i i

0:20:35.679,0:20:38.000
was scrolling through your twitter feed

0:20:37.360,0:20:40.320
going back

0:20:38.000,0:20:42.000
like probably like two years or

0:20:40.320,0:20:44.559
something and uh

0:20:42.000,0:20:46.799
i saw you um you were like oh this is

0:20:44.559,0:20:48.159
great i got like eight prs merged in

0:20:46.799,0:20:52.480
like within two days

0:20:48.159,0:20:52.480
or something like that yeah and

0:20:53.120,0:21:01.520
there's if you look at the

0:20:57.360,0:21:04.640
process around open source and

0:21:01.520,0:21:08.559
submitting a pull request and making it

0:21:04.640,0:21:13.039
having it merged i think

0:21:08.559,0:21:13.039
the level of entry is becoming higher as

0:21:14.840,0:21:17.840
well

0:21:18.720,0:21:21.760
i'm curious yeah i was curious to drill

0:21:20.640,0:21:25.280
into that because i've seen some

0:21:21.760,0:21:27.440
some people kind of complain about like

0:21:25.280,0:21:28.640
things not getting merged fast enough or

0:21:27.440,0:21:30.640
whatever

0:21:28.640,0:21:32.400
um what do you what do you think that is

0:21:30.640,0:21:33.360
that the the kind of the barrier to

0:21:32.400,0:21:36.880
entry

0:21:33.360,0:21:38.880
for prs is getting higher

0:21:36.880,0:21:40.080
well one of the things they say for

0:21:38.880,0:21:42.480
instance is you need

0:21:40.080,0:21:44.240
have you need to have test coverage in

0:21:42.480,0:21:46.159
your pr

0:21:44.240,0:21:48.640
but magento itself doesn't have like

0:21:46.159,0:21:52.240
test coverage of every piece of code

0:21:48.640,0:21:54.559
okay so

0:21:52.240,0:21:57.200
they're just saying well write tests and

0:21:54.559,0:21:58.720
i think a lot of people don't

0:21:57.200,0:22:00.320
have the time to write tests or don't

0:21:58.720,0:22:03.679
want to write tests or they don't have

0:22:00.320,0:22:03.679
the knowledge to write tests

0:22:04.000,0:22:07.440
and then those pr's will get stuck and

0:22:06.000,0:22:10.559
will not move along

0:22:07.440,0:22:13.840
while the actual change might might be

0:22:10.559,0:22:13.840
beneficial for the whole community

0:22:15.200,0:22:18.400
i think that's pretty reasonable though

0:22:16.799,0:22:21.120
to ask for the test coverage

0:22:18.400,0:22:22.720
i mean if you're in there writing uh

0:22:21.120,0:22:24.720
some functionality

0:22:22.720,0:22:26.559
writing a bug fix for a specific piece

0:22:24.720,0:22:28.720
of code and

0:22:26.559,0:22:31.840
i can't imagine to be too hard to cover

0:22:28.720,0:22:31.840
that with some tests

0:22:32.080,0:22:35.760
but i'm thinking about like a couple of

0:22:34.240,0:22:38.559
posts i saw

0:22:35.760,0:22:40.000
and now i'm curious if that was the

0:22:38.559,0:22:41.120
issue if that was the reason why

0:22:40.000,0:22:43.200
they didn't get merged because they

0:22:41.120,0:22:44.799
didn't have the test coverage so that's

0:22:43.200,0:22:46.640
something i'll have to yeah test

0:22:44.799,0:22:50.240
coverage or things are open

0:22:46.640,0:22:52.320
for like months or years before somebody

0:22:50.240,0:22:54.480
pays attention to it

0:22:52.320,0:22:56.799
yeah yeah yeah i've seen a couple of

0:22:54.480,0:22:56.799
those

0:22:56.960,0:23:01.200
i've seen some some people pretty upset

0:23:00.480,0:23:04.320
about that

0:23:01.200,0:23:06.799
you know yeah um

0:23:04.320,0:23:08.000
but yeah i guess maybe it maybe it

0:23:06.799,0:23:11.600
really boils down to the test

0:23:08.000,0:23:13.360
coverage there are the number of people

0:23:11.600,0:23:15.440
working on that on that side of the

0:23:13.360,0:23:19.280
project right you see the number of

0:23:15.440,0:23:19.280
outstanding issues increase as well

0:23:21.200,0:23:26.880
yeah so more or more backlog grooming or

0:23:24.000,0:23:30.080
closing out duplicates or something

0:23:26.880,0:23:33.200
right right yeah and how do you feel

0:23:30.080,0:23:33.919
like the magento community overall is is

0:23:33.200,0:23:37.600
doing

0:23:33.919,0:23:38.960
um just generally like uh

0:23:37.600,0:23:40.480
a lot a lot of people are looking at

0:23:38.960,0:23:42.080
different platforms a lot of people are

0:23:40.480,0:23:45.440
diversifying

0:23:42.080,0:23:48.400
um you know obviously covet has affected

0:23:45.440,0:23:48.880
events and our ability to get together

0:23:48.400,0:23:51.360
so

0:23:48.880,0:23:53.440
how do you kind of you're kind of

0:23:51.360,0:23:56.240
missing the in-person event

0:23:53.440,0:23:58.799
yeah like uh connecting with everybody

0:23:56.240,0:24:01.039
um so yeah that definitely has an impact

0:23:58.799,0:24:02.400
on the community but but that doesn't

0:24:01.039,0:24:03.360
only have an impact on the magento

0:24:02.400,0:24:06.799
community but on

0:24:03.360,0:24:08.240
other platforms as well yeah

0:24:06.799,0:24:11.440
and you do see a lot of people

0:24:08.240,0:24:12.799
diversifying to other platforms

0:24:11.440,0:24:16.080
here around the netherlands couple of

0:24:12.799,0:24:18.960
agencies have stopped doing magento

0:24:16.080,0:24:20.960
and went for instance to shopware or

0:24:18.960,0:24:24.799
doing magento and shopware or

0:24:20.960,0:24:27.919
magento and shopify or um

0:24:24.799,0:24:28.400
well we we still stick to magento

0:24:27.919,0:24:30.640
because

0:24:28.400,0:24:32.720
we think that one is it's a pretty good

0:24:30.640,0:24:34.960
and decent platform to do e-commerce on

0:24:32.720,0:24:37.520
and secondly we think that if you want

0:24:34.960,0:24:38.720
to exceed customer expectations you

0:24:37.520,0:24:40.640
need to be really good at what you're

0:24:38.720,0:24:43.840
doing

0:24:40.640,0:24:46.080
so you want to

0:24:43.840,0:24:47.919
be a perfectionist with a magento or

0:24:46.080,0:24:49.440
another platform

0:24:47.919,0:24:50.960
but i don't think that we are the site

0:24:49.440,0:24:52.720
of an agency that we could support

0:24:50.960,0:24:54.799
multiple platforms

0:24:52.720,0:24:55.760
especially coming out of the magento one

0:24:54.799,0:24:58.720
to magenta 2

0:24:55.760,0:24:58.720
transition as well

0:24:59.039,0:25:02.799
yeah i've been hearing more and more

0:25:00.159,0:25:05.360
about shopware it seems like um

0:25:02.799,0:25:07.679
a pretty cool platform seems like i feel

0:25:05.360,0:25:11.279
there's some parallels to

0:25:07.679,0:25:11.520
the magento um trajectory just as it's

0:25:11.279,0:25:14.080
an

0:25:11.520,0:25:16.240
open source platform there's a lot of

0:25:14.080,0:25:18.960
enthusiasm around it

0:25:16.240,0:25:20.720
you know yeah for sure but the business

0:25:18.960,0:25:23.039
model is a little bit different though

0:25:20.720,0:25:24.000
where magento has their commerce edition

0:25:23.039,0:25:26.840
which is

0:25:24.000,0:25:29.279
only feasible for large enterprise

0:25:26.840,0:25:31.279
customers

0:25:29.279,0:25:33.039
shopware has an as a model where you

0:25:31.279,0:25:36.559
could buy a license for i don't know a

0:25:33.039,0:25:41.039
thousand or 1500 euros

0:25:36.559,0:25:43.679
so the the barrier to entry is way lower

0:25:41.039,0:25:45.120
you can have a much larger customer base

0:25:43.679,0:25:49.679
who's willing to pay for

0:25:45.120,0:25:51.440
a particular feature or feature set

0:25:49.679,0:25:53.840
so their approach to that is a little

0:25:51.440,0:25:55.840
bit different than the magento approach

0:25:53.840,0:25:58.640
[Music]

0:25:55.840,0:25:59.919
yeah it's interesting um when it comes

0:25:58.640,0:26:03.279
to events have you been

0:25:59.919,0:26:06.080
um enjoying any of the virtual events

0:26:03.279,0:26:07.440
um it's it's it's hard to recreate kind

0:26:06.080,0:26:10.080
of the magic of like an

0:26:07.440,0:26:11.840
in-person event but it's i know

0:26:10.080,0:26:12.960
everybody's trying to do the virtual

0:26:11.840,0:26:16.080
events and

0:26:12.960,0:26:18.640
yeah um as recreate as much as they can

0:26:16.080,0:26:19.520
you know so with the magenta association

0:26:18.640,0:26:22.400
with the uh

0:26:19.520,0:26:23.760
we did the magenta connect event um

0:26:22.400,0:26:27.440
which was really well

0:26:23.760,0:26:29.200
received um i think with the uh we used

0:26:27.440,0:26:32.799
a tool called hop in

0:26:29.200,0:26:36.480
um it almost felt like an uh

0:26:32.799,0:26:38.480
an in-person event um

0:26:36.480,0:26:39.760
but still you don't you i don't know you

0:26:38.480,0:26:43.520
do not have the vibe

0:26:39.760,0:26:47.039
going on or like um the after hours

0:26:43.520,0:26:49.600
um discussions um

0:26:47.039,0:26:51.130
yeah or the in between events or session

0:26:49.600,0:26:52.720
discussions as well so

0:26:51.130,0:26:55.760
[Music]

0:26:52.720,0:26:57.919
yeah i really liked the um uh at the uh

0:26:55.760,0:26:59.200
the adobe i think it was the adobe

0:26:57.919,0:27:02.880
developer live

0:26:59.200,0:27:03.440
um conference recently i checked out the

0:27:02.880,0:27:05.600
network

0:27:03.440,0:27:06.720
feature uh the networking feature and

0:27:05.600,0:27:09.039
hop in

0:27:06.720,0:27:10.480
um and i really liked it it was like a

0:27:09.039,0:27:13.360
five minute

0:27:10.480,0:27:14.640
uh you just it randomly matches you up

0:27:13.360,0:27:17.919
with somebody else for

0:27:14.640,0:27:21.200
five minute video chat and uh it was

0:27:17.919,0:27:23.840
really cool i really liked it

0:27:21.200,0:27:24.320
sort of kind of like dating yeah he did

0:27:23.840,0:27:26.720
it

0:27:24.320,0:27:28.480
a little bit like speed dating it i

0:27:26.720,0:27:30.320
don't know it made me feel like

0:27:28.480,0:27:32.880
i was kind of at a conference i don't

0:27:30.320,0:27:35.279
know i i can't quite explain it

0:27:32.880,0:27:37.279
uh but it it's what's interesting about

0:27:35.279,0:27:40.880
that is that you're actually

0:27:37.279,0:27:43.760
just meeting a random new guy whereas

0:27:40.880,0:27:45.760
in person events most of the time you're

0:27:43.760,0:27:48.000
talking to people you already know and

0:27:45.760,0:27:51.279
they can introduce you to other people

0:27:48.000,0:27:52.799
so um this might be actually a bit

0:27:51.279,0:27:56.559
better

0:27:52.799,0:27:58.720
yeah the random the randomness yeah

0:27:56.559,0:28:00.880
yeah i had the same thought too it

0:27:58.720,0:28:04.080
almost forces you to meet new people

0:28:00.880,0:28:06.399
yeah um uh and and it's cool i was just

0:28:04.080,0:28:09.039
for five minutes because

0:28:06.399,0:28:10.799
um you know it's not you know if if

0:28:09.039,0:28:12.799
there's not much to talk about then

0:28:10.799,0:28:14.080
it's just over after five minutes it

0:28:12.799,0:28:16.880
gives you a feeling that

0:28:14.080,0:28:17.520
you know of like continual motion kind

0:28:16.880,0:28:19.200
of a thing

0:28:17.520,0:28:21.440
like if you're at a conference you're

0:28:19.200,0:28:23.440
just walking around and

0:28:21.440,0:28:26.320
um you know you always got somewhere

0:28:23.440,0:28:29.279
else to go you know for the next event

0:28:26.320,0:28:30.720
yeah yeah and then you can just go away

0:28:29.279,0:28:34.399
from the person

0:28:30.720,0:28:35.840
yeah it's needed yeah

0:28:34.399,0:28:38.960
but i thought that was yeah i thought

0:28:35.840,0:28:42.399
that was a great uh a great feature

0:28:38.960,0:28:44.640
um are there any uh events coming up

0:28:42.399,0:28:46.559
in the near future that you guys are

0:28:44.640,0:28:48.640
organizing

0:28:46.559,0:28:51.440
well we're not organizers ourselves as

0:28:48.640,0:28:53.360
cream as an agency but

0:28:51.440,0:28:54.720
yet the magento association is talking

0:28:53.360,0:28:56.880
about doing

0:28:54.720,0:28:59.279
connect events virtual connect events

0:28:56.880,0:29:00.880
again

0:28:59.279,0:29:02.399
there was definitely a lot of interest

0:29:00.880,0:29:04.720
to those events so

0:29:02.399,0:29:06.799
um we'll probably move forward with that

0:29:04.720,0:29:08.960
okay that's cool

0:29:06.799,0:29:10.960
so this is this is kind of random but i

0:29:08.960,0:29:14.000
saw on your linkedin

0:29:10.960,0:29:17.520
that you started a private equity firm

0:29:14.000,0:29:20.000
which i had i had i had no idea

0:29:17.520,0:29:21.310
uh i i'm curious to learn a little bit

0:29:20.000,0:29:23.600
more about that

0:29:21.310,0:29:26.799
[Laughter]

0:29:23.600,0:29:31.039
uh that's an interesting story yeah

0:29:26.799,0:29:34.480
um so one of our customers um

0:29:31.039,0:29:38.799
we had the ability to um

0:29:34.480,0:29:38.799
to participate in their in their venture

0:29:38.880,0:29:43.760
and me and my my business partner said

0:29:40.960,0:29:45.039
all right let's let's uh let's go

0:29:43.760,0:29:47.520
go and do that and take that

0:29:45.039,0:29:49.760
participation in there in that company

0:29:47.520,0:29:51.520
um because we think that we know how to

0:29:49.760,0:29:53.440
sell stuff online and we advise our

0:29:51.520,0:29:56.399
customers

0:29:53.440,0:29:57.039
on on the best way to sell uh to sell to

0:29:56.399,0:29:59.679
sell

0:29:57.039,0:30:01.039
stuff online um but we can now actually

0:29:59.679,0:30:04.799
participate in a company

0:30:01.039,0:30:04.799
um in doing so

0:30:04.960,0:30:08.559
that's cool so you do uh investing and

0:30:07.279,0:30:11.520
stuff like that

0:30:08.559,0:30:12.559
yeah yeah and die festing as well so

0:30:11.520,0:30:13.840
okay

0:30:12.559,0:30:15.840
uh yeah we actually saw that

0:30:13.840,0:30:19.440
participation uh

0:30:15.840,0:30:20.960
at the beginning of 2020 so uh okay

0:30:19.440,0:30:23.200
that's neat that's neat so you've

0:30:20.960,0:30:26.720
dabbled a little bit in investing yep

0:30:23.200,0:30:28.559
yep that's cool um i think

0:30:26.720,0:30:29.919
we were initially wanting to talk a

0:30:28.559,0:30:31.120
little bit about preparing for the

0:30:29.919,0:30:33.440
holiday seasons because

0:30:31.120,0:30:34.960
we were gonna do this podcast earlier

0:30:33.440,0:30:38.240
and then some things came up

0:30:34.960,0:30:40.960
my apologies but so it's a little

0:30:38.240,0:30:41.840
better things on your mind had some

0:30:40.960,0:30:43.600
things come up

0:30:41.840,0:30:45.120
but it's so it's a little late obviously

0:30:43.600,0:30:47.120
for preparing for the holiday season

0:30:45.120,0:30:50.480
right now but was there anything

0:30:47.120,0:30:53.520
uh top of mind for you when it comes to

0:30:50.480,0:30:54.880
uh this this holiday season well

0:30:53.520,0:30:56.640
what you see here in the netherlands at

0:30:54.880,0:30:59.679
least is that um there are

0:30:56.640,0:31:02.000
companies actively advertising to not

0:30:59.679,0:31:03.039
do your holiday shopping last last

0:31:02.000,0:31:06.399
minute but more like

0:31:03.039,0:31:07.120
scatter it in a larger period of time

0:31:06.399,0:31:10.960
and and

0:31:07.120,0:31:10.960
be be early order early

0:31:11.600,0:31:15.840
and that's something i see with the u.s

0:31:14.399,0:31:19.200
market as well

0:31:15.840,0:31:21.519
especially with dull scale

0:31:19.200,0:31:22.720
doing a longer period of promotions

0:31:21.519,0:31:26.240
instead of a

0:31:22.720,0:31:27.279
one big burst so we're definitely

0:31:26.240,0:31:30.320
expecting a lot of

0:31:27.279,0:31:33.440
holiday shopping to be online

0:31:30.320,0:31:36.799
as some stores are closed or do not

0:31:33.440,0:31:36.799
participate in black friday

0:31:37.279,0:31:40.880
and having a longer longer holiday

0:31:39.760,0:31:44.799
period than normal

0:31:40.880,0:31:45.440
as well that makes sense so like instead

0:31:44.799,0:31:47.519
of the

0:31:45.440,0:31:48.799
the holiday rush where everybody's going

0:31:47.519,0:31:51.600
to the stores

0:31:48.799,0:31:52.080
and and doing their shopping just get it

0:31:51.600,0:31:55.440
done

0:31:52.080,0:31:56.960
a little earlier get it done online um

0:31:55.440,0:31:59.600
it makes me think actually of like

0:31:56.960,0:32:02.320
voting here recently in the election

0:31:59.600,0:32:04.320
like um because there was a lot of a

0:32:02.320,0:32:06.080
push to vote early

0:32:04.320,0:32:08.720
and then like for example we were able

0:32:06.080,0:32:12.000
to just go vote like a week beforehand

0:32:08.720,0:32:14.080
uh and we did it in person um

0:32:12.000,0:32:15.360
but like you could just go in at any

0:32:14.080,0:32:17.279
point leading up

0:32:15.360,0:32:19.120
several weeks leading up to it i was

0:32:17.279,0:32:19.600
like this is so much easier like why did

0:32:19.120,0:32:22.880
we all

0:32:19.600,0:32:23.760
wait to the very day to do it when we

0:32:22.880,0:32:27.120
could have just gone

0:32:23.760,0:32:29.760
in a couple weeks earlier you know

0:32:27.120,0:32:31.360
and just like kind of yeah if they do

0:32:29.760,0:32:32.880
the deals for black friday during the

0:32:31.360,0:32:34.480
whole week everybody will shop for the

0:32:32.880,0:32:35.279
whole week right it's not like a single

0:32:34.480,0:32:38.640
day

0:32:35.279,0:32:42.480
yeah yeah yeah yeah so then are you um

0:32:38.640,0:32:44.559
just encouraging clients to kind of um

0:32:42.480,0:32:46.320
have their promotions available for a

0:32:44.559,0:32:48.000
longer period of time

0:32:46.320,0:32:50.320
during the holiday season that kind of a

0:32:48.000,0:32:52.880
thing um

0:32:50.320,0:32:53.519
yeah and as well as like from a

0:32:52.880,0:32:56.159
technical

0:32:53.519,0:32:58.000
perspective with the increase of traffic

0:32:56.159,0:33:01.120
what are you expecting

0:32:58.000,0:33:03.440
when are you expecting it and we can act

0:33:01.120,0:33:05.440
accordingly at that point so

0:33:03.440,0:33:06.799
nice make sure that everything is scaled

0:33:05.440,0:33:10.000
up and ready to go

0:33:06.799,0:33:10.960
right right awesome well hopefully you

0:33:10.000,0:33:14.159
guys have a good

0:33:10.960,0:33:15.279
successful holiday season um was there

0:33:14.159,0:33:18.480
anything else you wanted to

0:33:15.279,0:33:20.290
want to cover before we wrap up

0:33:18.480,0:33:21.760
well that was on the on that list

0:33:20.290,0:33:23.279
[Laughter]

0:33:21.760,0:33:25.840
i think that was about it i think that

0:33:23.279,0:33:28.640
was about it on my list yeah

0:33:25.840,0:33:32.159
um awesome well where uh where's the

0:33:28.640,0:33:36.000
best place for people to find you online

0:33:32.159,0:33:37.360
um twitter linkedin um

0:33:36.000,0:33:39.120
if you have any questions connect with

0:33:37.360,0:33:43.919
me i'm happy to answer them

0:33:39.120,0:33:43.919
okay awesome