Dennis Hegstad is the co-founder of LiveRecover, an SMS abandoned cart recovery solution for eCommerce. In this episode, we talk about a range of things related to SMS marketing, eCommerce, influencer marketing, entrepreneurship, and more.
0:00:00.080,0:00:03.520 i dm'd him on twitter did you yeah he 0:00:02.879,0:00:05.680 followed him 0:00:03.520,0:00:06.720 he's like your app sounds sick let's go 0:00:05.680,0:00:09.840 and i'm like dude that's 0:00:06.720,0:00:11.360 awesome he signed up we recovered over a 0:00:09.840,0:00:12.799 million dollars for him in like two 0:00:11.360,0:00:14.240 months or three months 0:00:12.799,0:00:15.200 and then i found out that the whole time 0:00:14.240,0:00:16.400 i didn't know this while we were working 0:00:15.200,0:00:31.840 with him my friend was running his 0:00:16.400,0:00:31.840 facebook ads 0:00:33.040,0:00:38.640 dennis how you doing sir doing beautiful 0:00:36.880,0:00:40.320 i'm local too in austin texas so it 0:00:38.640,0:00:40.960 feels good to be close even though we're 0:00:40.320,0:00:43.040 on 0:00:40.960,0:00:44.000 video and on a podcast but doing great 0:00:43.040,0:00:45.760 man how are you yeah man 0:00:44.000,0:00:47.120 i'm doing okay we got to go hiking or 0:00:45.760,0:00:47.760 something i've been doing a bunch of 0:00:47.120,0:00:50.960 hiking 0:00:47.760,0:00:52.640 lately so uh we got to get out 0:00:50.960,0:00:55.199 activities let's do it let's do it the 0:00:52.640,0:00:56.719 weather's still good dude i was i was uh 0:00:55.199,0:00:58.239 i was checking out your instagram a 0:00:56.719,0:00:59.600 little bit last night i think you're the 0:00:58.239,0:01:02.160 coolest guy 0:00:59.600,0:01:02.719 in like tech austin like across the 0:01:02.160,0:01:05.280 boards 0:01:02.719,0:01:05.840 you're just like what's that cool we're 0:01:05.280,0:01:08.240 like 0:01:05.840,0:01:09.840 basically a rock star for all intents 0:01:08.240,0:01:12.640 and purposes 0:01:09.840,0:01:15.680 oh that's yeah i wish that was true i'm 0:01:12.640,0:01:18.320 playing a sims character it's okay 0:01:15.680,0:01:19.280 so um got the slack notifications 0:01:18.320,0:01:23.040 popping 0:01:19.280,0:01:24.560 um so how like it's obviously a crazy 0:01:23.040,0:01:26.479 time right now with kovid and the 0:01:24.560,0:01:27.840 elections and everything 0:01:26.479,0:01:31.040 what do you what are you doing to kind 0:01:27.840,0:01:34.079 of stay sane in the midst of it all 0:01:31.040,0:01:35.200 um i was fortunate enough that i bought 0:01:34.079,0:01:38.439 a house during 0:01:35.200,0:01:41.439 covid so i was living in a studio condo 0:01:38.439,0:01:42.479 540 square feet with all of my amenities 0:01:41.439,0:01:44.399 locked down 0:01:42.479,0:01:45.920 granted the last 10 years of my life 0:01:44.399,0:01:47.040 i've worked at home so this is nothing 0:01:45.920,0:01:49.439 new to me but 0:01:47.040,0:01:50.159 not having access to go outside uh 0:01:49.439,0:01:52.320 upgrading 0:01:50.159,0:01:54.320 you know into a house where my own yard 0:01:52.320,0:01:56.079 i can let my dog out i can go breathe i 0:01:54.320,0:01:58.240 don't have to ask for permission 0:01:56.079,0:02:00.159 obviously i'm safe but you know and 0:01:58.240,0:02:01.920 having the responsibility of that kind 0:02:00.159,0:02:03.040 of stuff has really helped me stay sane 0:02:01.920,0:02:04.399 just because 0:02:03.040,0:02:06.640 those are the things i like doing i like 0:02:04.399,0:02:08.160 skateboarding i like running i like 0:02:06.640,0:02:10.080 meeting people unfortunately that's kind 0:02:08.160,0:02:12.000 of on pause but yeah 0:02:10.080,0:02:13.680 for the most part you know just working 0:02:12.000,0:02:15.280 and staying focused and being thankful 0:02:13.680,0:02:15.599 no one in my family has gotten super 0:02:15.280,0:02:18.319 sick 0:02:15.599,0:02:18.720 my mom did have coke but aside from that 0:02:18.319,0:02:20.000 you know 0:02:18.720,0:02:22.000 just kind of trying to focus on my 0:02:20.000,0:02:25.440 routine and not ignore what's going 0:02:22.000,0:02:26.640 on but not not fall down the the rabbit 0:02:25.440,0:02:29.280 hole and everything 0:02:26.640,0:02:30.560 it's gonna happen anyway yeah did uh so 0:02:29.280,0:02:33.040 did your mom get better 0:02:30.560,0:02:34.800 pretty quickly or yeah she thought she 0:02:33.040,0:02:36.560 had pneumonia 0:02:34.800,0:02:38.160 and went to the hospital the hospital 0:02:36.560,0:02:38.879 for a night and then the next day she 0:02:38.160,0:02:41.200 went home 0:02:38.879,0:02:42.239 we got tested and covered this was like 0:02:41.200,0:02:44.720 late february 0:02:42.239,0:02:45.360 okay uh so it was really early uh but 0:02:44.720,0:02:46.959 after that 0:02:45.360,0:02:48.720 everything's been fairly normal that's 0:02:46.959,0:02:49.040 awesome that's awesome yeah it's like 0:02:48.720,0:02:51.599 it's 0:02:49.040,0:02:54.000 it's a i'm pretty routine oriented too 0:02:51.599,0:02:59.120 and you know stick to the routine 0:02:54.000,0:03:01.120 gym work twitter other stuff 0:02:59.120,0:03:02.959 that's life that's life what's your 0:03:01.120,0:03:04.480 twitter panning and laundry in there 0:03:02.959,0:03:07.760 we're a full-on 0:03:04.480,0:03:10.879 hey you're good to go laundry twitter 0:03:07.760,0:03:13.280 repeat right what is uh what does your 0:03:10.879,0:03:15.920 routine look like 0:03:13.280,0:03:17.200 um i wake up early like i'm a morning 0:03:15.920,0:03:18.480 person i know some people like how can 0:03:17.200,0:03:19.040 you get up early i'm like how can you 0:03:18.480,0:03:20.480 not 0:03:19.040,0:03:22.159 it's the same feeling that somebody's 0:03:20.480,0:03:23.280 always been a morning person yeah and 0:03:22.159,0:03:25.200 most developers 0:03:23.280,0:03:26.319 are not and i've always been it's like a 0:03:25.200,0:03:28.400 weird thing you know 0:03:26.319,0:03:30.080 those rock stars are not morning people 0:03:28.400,0:03:31.840 and you no they're in the studio 0:03:30.080,0:03:33.680 pm until six in the morning and i used 0:03:31.840,0:03:35.040 to do that when i was living in l.a 0:03:33.680,0:03:36.400 going to studio sessions and just 0:03:35.040,0:03:36.879 working and hanging out there but i'm 0:03:36.400,0:03:39.760 like 0:03:36.879,0:03:41.360 i prefer the same thing but like kind of 0:03:39.760,0:03:42.480 living during the regular hours of the 0:03:41.360,0:03:44.720 day right like if 0:03:42.480,0:03:46.400 if if only you could stay up 24 hours in 0:03:44.720,0:03:47.120 banks and grocery stores and things were 0:03:46.400,0:03:50.000 open at 3 0:03:47.120,0:03:50.239 4 in the morning sure but i wake up at 6 0:03:50.000,0:03:52.879 00 0:03:50.239,0:03:54.799 6 30 i try to get my run in before i can 0:03:52.879,0:03:57.599 even think about not doing it 0:03:54.799,0:03:58.640 um hopefully that's you know before 8. 0:03:57.599,0:04:00.640 then i'll get coffee 0:03:58.640,0:04:02.720 i'll sit down and i'll eat eat breakfast 0:04:00.640,0:04:04.720 with my dog make him food and then 0:04:02.720,0:04:06.879 then i start work i don't get on the 0:04:04.720,0:04:08.959 computer until i've done those things 0:04:06.879,0:04:11.200 and granted it's not a lot but i i take 0:04:08.959,0:04:14.000 care of myself i shower i feed myself 0:04:11.200,0:04:15.439 i take care of my basic duties uh and 0:04:14.000,0:04:17.759 then i get on with my day 0:04:15.439,0:04:18.880 um aside from that it's pretty much live 0:04:17.759,0:04:20.479 recover from 0:04:18.880,0:04:22.079 i think my calendars are open from nine 0:04:20.479,0:04:24.800 in the morning until six p.m so 0:04:22.079,0:04:26.000 some days i have eight demos some days i 0:04:24.800,0:04:27.440 have zero 0:04:26.000,0:04:29.280 and that's because we're a small team 0:04:27.440,0:04:30.479 and we don't have a full sales team 0:04:29.280,0:04:33.360 we're only a full-time 0:04:30.479,0:04:34.320 team of 11 people then eight of them are 0:04:33.360,0:04:36.080 texting agents 0:04:34.320,0:04:37.680 right so really it's three core team 0:04:36.080,0:04:39.919 members so we all wear 0:04:37.680,0:04:41.199 a few hats but yeah then after i'd say 0:04:39.919,0:04:42.080 like seven or eight unless there's an 0:04:41.199,0:04:43.680 emergency or something 0:04:42.080,0:04:45.680 i'm probably not working anymore and i 0:04:43.680,0:04:48.160 might just be on twitter 0:04:45.680,0:04:49.680 or or reading or something along those 0:04:48.160,0:04:51.120 lines but yeah i go to bed early i never 0:04:49.680,0:04:53.759 usually awake past 0:04:51.120,0:04:55.040 10 30 or 11 during the week unless i'm 0:04:53.759,0:04:56.080 going out or something i'm pretty 0:04:55.040,0:04:58.800 disciplined about that 0:04:56.080,0:05:00.880 nice dude i've been i try to do more 0:04:58.800,0:05:02.800 reading but i just i just can't like i 0:05:00.880,0:05:05.520 can't i try to be like a book person but 0:05:02.800,0:05:07.759 i listen to a lot of podcasts and i 0:05:05.520,0:05:09.440 i you can learn a lot or audio but i 0:05:07.759,0:05:11.360 can't even really do audio books it's 0:05:09.440,0:05:13.840 just it's got to be podcasts 0:05:11.360,0:05:15.680 but i i wish that's one thing i want to 0:05:13.840,0:05:18.080 get into my routine 0:05:15.680,0:05:20.479 is the reading part you know i think 0:05:18.080,0:05:22.479 reading for me it's hard too like i like 0:05:20.479,0:05:23.759 to learn but i don't like reading 0:05:22.479,0:05:24.000 because i'm like oh i could be doing so 0:05:23.759,0:05:26.000 many 0:05:24.000,0:05:27.759 other things at once but when you're 0:05:26.000,0:05:29.280 listening to a podcast and maybe not 0:05:27.759,0:05:30.400 this podcast because it's so great 0:05:29.280,0:05:32.720 but if you're listening to another 0:05:30.400,0:05:35.039 podcast or an audio book you're usually 0:05:32.720,0:05:37.759 doing something else at the same time 0:05:35.039,0:05:38.639 so i'm on a run i'm i'm working out 0:05:37.759,0:05:40.240 right doing this and 0:05:38.639,0:05:42.000 that it's almost like you're passively 0:05:40.240,0:05:43.039 trying to learn which can help and will 0:05:42.000,0:05:44.960 work probably 0:05:43.039,0:05:46.080 a little bit over time with repetition 0:05:44.960,0:05:47.919 but when you're reading 0:05:46.080,0:05:49.680 we don't do anything else but sit and 0:05:47.919,0:05:51.199 read you're holding the book with your 0:05:49.680,0:05:52.560 hands you're turning the pages 0:05:51.199,0:05:54.880 maybe taking notes like you're really 0:05:52.560,0:05:56.240 involved nothing else is in your face so 0:05:54.880,0:05:58.160 yeah when you do that and you might need 0:05:56.240,0:05:59.520 to read a book twice or three times to 0:05:58.160,0:06:00.560 get it just like if you watch a movie 0:05:59.520,0:06:01.919 three times you 0:06:00.560,0:06:03.919 focus on different parts it's no 0:06:01.919,0:06:05.680 different right so yeah i think 0:06:03.919,0:06:07.039 i'm not the best reader typically and 0:06:05.680,0:06:08.160 this has been taken away from me and i'm 0:06:07.039,0:06:10.000 not complaining this is a very 0:06:08.160,0:06:11.600 privileged thing to complain about but i 0:06:10.000,0:06:13.520 love reading on airplanes 0:06:11.600,0:06:15.360 because i have nothing else to do right 0:06:13.520,0:06:16.080 i love to read and work on airplanes 0:06:15.360,0:06:17.600 because it's like 0:06:16.080,0:06:18.880 of course like wi-fi is limited but 0:06:17.600,0:06:20.319 reading on planes for me is like the 0:06:18.880,0:06:22.960 most enjoyable thing 0:06:20.319,0:06:24.800 um anyway but i was i was checking out 0:06:22.960,0:06:25.360 your instagram you're like on private 0:06:24.800,0:06:27.759 jets 0:06:25.360,0:06:29.600 all over the place like what that's 0:06:27.759,0:06:32.560 awesome dude like 0:06:29.600,0:06:34.240 a few times that's cool that's cool 0:06:32.560,0:06:36.240 norway but my 0:06:34.240,0:06:37.360 some i have a family member who is very 0:06:36.240,0:06:38.639 generous and and 0:06:37.360,0:06:40.880 only travels private so i get the 0:06:38.639,0:06:42.319 benefit of uh you know tagging along if 0:06:40.880,0:06:44.880 you're that's awesome 0:06:42.319,0:06:46.400 cool yeah yeah i saw your um i saw your 0:06:44.880,0:06:49.199 tweet about being the first 0:06:46.400,0:06:50.400 uh of your family uh born in america or 0:06:49.199,0:06:52.000 something like that or 0:06:50.400,0:06:54.080 american and i just assume you're an 0:06:52.000,0:06:55.520 american dude but um 0:06:54.080,0:06:59.599 but that's cool so you're from so you're 0:06:55.520,0:07:02.080 from norway yeah yes not genocide 0:06:59.599,0:07:02.080 all right 0:07:05.120,0:07:10.560 sounded like a good accent as far as i 0:07:06.800,0:07:10.560 could tell you know there you go yeah 0:07:11.520,0:07:16.880 so i so i read that fast company uh 0:07:15.440,0:07:19.280 profile of you 0:07:16.880,0:07:20.080 and um you've had a pretty interesting 0:07:19.280,0:07:22.639 life and 0:07:20.080,0:07:23.120 and career i i think you're the coolest 0:07:22.639,0:07:26.160 guy 0:07:23.120,0:07:26.800 in the austin tech scene um and so you 0:07:26.160,0:07:28.880 were like 0:07:26.800,0:07:30.880 you were like a professional gamer at 0:07:28.880,0:07:33.199 age 15 or something like that 0:07:30.880,0:07:34.639 i was yeah back then it wasn't really 0:07:33.199,0:07:36.240 professional but we were spawn we were 0:07:34.639,0:07:36.880 the first gaming team sponsored by 0:07:36.240,0:07:40.720 newegg 0:07:36.880,0:07:42.479 in 2004. uh we were also we ran a gaming 0:07:40.720,0:07:44.000 server provider a gsv 0:07:42.479,0:07:45.680 kind of like an isp for your internet is 0:07:44.000,0:07:47.199 an internet service provider gaming 0:07:45.680,0:07:48.639 server providers that provide 0:07:47.199,0:07:50.319 servers to host your games are called 0:07:48.639,0:07:53.520 gsps okay so we built 0:07:50.319,0:07:56.160 esp one of the founders of our clan 0:07:53.520,0:07:57.759 which was 17 doing a million a month in 0:07:56.160,0:07:58.720 revenue we were all employees of this 0:07:57.759,0:08:00.720 gsp 0:07:58.720,0:08:02.080 working over irc but we were sponsored 0:08:00.720,0:08:04.160 by the team so we looked cool 0:08:02.080,0:08:05.520 and we were really [ __ ] good yeah we 0:08:04.160,0:08:07.680 played money we were in 0:08:05.520,0:08:09.440 something called cal premier and also 0:08:07.680,0:08:11.599 another league called cal invite 0:08:09.440,0:08:13.440 and now this has grown into this massive 0:08:11.599,0:08:14.800 business but all of us kind of got out 0:08:13.440,0:08:16.560 when we started getting girlfriends we 0:08:14.800,0:08:18.400 were 18. and then right 0:08:16.560,0:08:19.599 i kind of wish i had still played but at 0:08:18.400,0:08:21.840 the same time i'm much 0:08:19.599,0:08:23.360 i'm happier that i got into software and 0:08:21.840,0:08:24.879 marketing because 0:08:23.360,0:08:26.720 counter-strike is what took me there 0:08:24.879,0:08:27.199 right i kind of owe all of it to playing 0:08:26.720,0:08:29.520 games 0:08:27.199,0:08:30.879 but i also played quake 3 uh before that 0:08:29.520,0:08:32.479 but i wasn't competitive i was only 0:08:30.879,0:08:34.399 competitive 0:08:32.479,0:08:35.760 dude i think are you a fan of naval 0:08:34.399,0:08:38.959 ravicon at all 0:08:35.760,0:08:41.120 he's uh on twitter at naval he's like 0:08:38.959,0:08:42.560 the yeah i mean phil rogan was cool i've 0:08:41.120,0:08:43.599 followed him for so many years he's a 0:08:42.560,0:08:47.200 very wise 0:08:43.599,0:08:49.120 man yeah he's he's amazing i think he 0:08:47.200,0:08:49.920 said something recently about games he 0:08:49.120,0:08:52.080 said 0:08:49.920,0:08:53.760 uh and he was v he came out he was like 0:08:52.080,0:08:55.360 games are bad which obviously is a 0:08:53.760,0:08:57.519 controversial thing a lot of people 0:08:55.360,0:08:59.839 it's a career but he said something that 0:08:57.519,0:09:01.680 stuck with me he was like 0:08:59.839,0:09:03.519 life is a game right like what you're 0:09:01.680,0:09:06.560 doing in marketing is to get like 0:09:03.519,0:09:07.600 it's all a game like why not play games 0:09:06.560,0:09:09.519 where 0:09:07.600,0:09:11.440 you're actually getting real world 0:09:09.519,0:09:13.279 results 0:09:11.440,0:09:14.959 and time invested is leveling up i mean 0:09:13.279,0:09:16.720 you can look at it very well 0:09:14.959,0:09:18.080 i've looked at it that way too before i 0:09:16.720,0:09:20.160 knew you but i agree 0:09:18.080,0:09:21.760 i mean yeah do i spend time playing a 0:09:20.160,0:09:23.279 game like a video game where if i'm not 0:09:21.760,0:09:25.040 a competitive or 0:09:23.279,0:09:26.399 gaming player in the year of 2020 where 0:09:25.040,0:09:27.920 i can make tens of millions of dollars 0:09:26.399,0:09:29.760 being a youtube influencer 0:09:27.920,0:09:30.959 sure that that sounds great i would love 0:09:29.760,0:09:34.000 to do that if that was my 0:09:30.959,0:09:35.360 path now once that game turns off if 0:09:34.000,0:09:37.120 you're not a pro gamer 0:09:35.360,0:09:38.720 like what are you playing for right if 0:09:37.120,0:09:40.399 you invent yourself you're playing the 0:09:38.720,0:09:42.160 game of life right at least 0:09:40.399,0:09:43.680 everything you do like has compound 0:09:42.160,0:09:45.760 interest and you're accumulating skill 0:09:43.680,0:09:46.880 and hopefully some money and eventually 0:09:45.760,0:09:49.200 some assets and then 0:09:46.880,0:09:50.000 eventually wealth which maybe correlates 0:09:49.200,0:09:51.680 your happiness a little 0:09:50.000,0:09:53.760 bit because who doesn't want some more 0:09:51.680,0:09:55.519 money as long as it's not the only thing 0:09:53.760,0:09:56.560 yeah uh yeah i think that's a i think 0:09:55.519,0:09:57.839 that's a great way of looking at it 0:09:56.560,0:09:59.760 that's why i play games 0:09:57.839,0:10:01.760 yeah yeah yeah no yeah when i saw that 0:09:59.760,0:10:02.079 in the profile it made me think of of 0:10:01.760,0:10:04.399 like 0:10:02.079,0:10:05.680 what he said about it and it's like 0:10:04.399,0:10:07.440 everybody's playing 0:10:05.680,0:10:08.800 games at like different levels but it's 0:10:07.440,0:10:10.399 kind of about where are you 0:10:08.800,0:10:12.160 putting your time and stuff like that 0:10:10.399,0:10:13.200 yeah i agree with that and i thought it 0:10:12.160,0:10:13.839 was interesting that you were saying 0:10:13.200,0:10:15.760 that it was 0:10:13.839,0:10:17.519 wild that you got out of the influencer 0:10:15.760,0:10:19.680 mark so you had a whole 0:10:17.519,0:10:20.640 influencer marketing platform that you 0:10:19.680,0:10:23.440 built 0:10:20.640,0:10:24.399 and that you ran in like 2014 something 0:10:23.440,0:10:27.200 like that 0:10:24.399,0:10:28.240 yeah 2013 until 2016. it was called 0:10:27.200,0:10:31.519 exposely 0:10:28.240,0:10:33.519 uh we were we launched right 0:10:31.519,0:10:34.959 really early i mean i i used to have 10 0:10:33.519,0:10:36.720 million followers on twitter though 0:10:34.959,0:10:39.040 across all these meme accounts so i had 0:10:36.720,0:10:40.720 about 14 or 15 accounts they all had 0:10:39.040,0:10:42.720 anywhere from 600k to a million 0:10:40.720,0:10:43.839 followers different themes like travel 0:10:42.720,0:10:46.560 and cars and 0:10:43.839,0:10:47.519 food and cute girls and architecture 0:10:46.560,0:10:50.320 whatever their 0:10:47.519,0:10:52.399 random tweets just are sad you know 0:10:50.320,0:10:54.160 self-deprecating tweets 0:10:52.399,0:10:55.440 and those scale right when you post 0:10:54.160,0:10:57.279 links on those 0:10:55.440,0:10:58.640 ten times a day or six times a day 0:10:57.279,0:10:59.200 across those many followers you can 0:10:58.640,0:11:00.800 drive 0:10:59.200,0:11:02.720 hundreds of thousands of unique clicks a 0:11:00.800,0:11:04.560 day yeah so i used that to build a 0:11:02.720,0:11:05.839 platform for myself and then i realized 0:11:04.560,0:11:06.800 well i know all these other people on 0:11:05.839,0:11:10.000 twitter who do this for 0:11:06.800,0:11:11.600 for for profit basically uh and we 0:11:10.000,0:11:13.600 yeah it turned into a you know we did 0:11:11.600,0:11:16.320 multiple millions in our first year and 0:11:13.600,0:11:18.320 it became a big business but as 2015 0:11:16.320,0:11:20.240 2016 rolled around it was like 0:11:18.320,0:11:22.399 it kind of felt like how sms marketing 0:11:20.240,0:11:24.480 felt for influencer in 2016. it's like 0:11:22.399,0:11:26.160 oh you're doing cbd or sms 0:11:24.480,0:11:27.519 oh you're doing influencer marketing and 0:11:26.160,0:11:28.880 every call i had 0:11:27.519,0:11:30.240 hey how are you different than eight 0:11:28.880,0:11:31.760 other companies and i'm like well those 0:11:30.240,0:11:33.839 are just wordpress sites with an 0:11:31.760,0:11:34.800 agency doing a service business we have 0:11:33.839,0:11:37.040 a programmatic 0:11:34.800,0:11:38.560 performance based advertising platform 0:11:37.040,0:11:39.279 you don't have to talk to me to make a 0:11:38.560,0:11:40.800 campaign 0:11:39.279,0:11:42.560 you can just upload your type of 0:11:40.800,0:11:44.800 campaign upload a budget plug in your 0:11:42.560,0:11:47.440 pixel add in utm parameters the 0:11:44.800,0:11:49.040 instructions and we have 20 000 0:11:47.440,0:11:51.200 influencers who will do this on a 0:11:49.040,0:11:52.800 performance basis that you've set 0:11:51.200,0:11:54.399 right and so it was very different than 0:11:52.800,0:11:55.600 what everyone else was doing minus maybe 0:11:54.399,0:11:58.160 one or two people 0:11:55.600,0:11:59.600 uh another person who did it was called 0:11:58.160,0:12:01.279 uh 0:11:59.600,0:12:03.920 [ __ ] they got acquired by twitter i 0:12:01.279,0:12:06.399 can't remember what their name was 0:12:03.920,0:12:07.600 and so this was early 2015. yeah it's 0:12:06.399,0:12:09.200 yeah it's interesting because that was 0:12:07.600,0:12:12.399 pretty early and it's like i 0:12:09.200,0:12:14.480 i'm i'm much further behind these 0:12:12.399,0:12:15.760 industries but it feels like from my 0:12:14.480,0:12:17.440 perspective 0:12:15.760,0:12:19.120 influencer marking has kind of just 0:12:17.440,0:12:20.160 started to take off in i don't know 0:12:19.120,0:12:21.839 recent years 0:12:20.160,0:12:24.399 obviously it was taking off way before 0:12:21.839,0:12:26.160 that but it seems like it's a pretty big 0:12:24.399,0:12:28.000 uh industry it's gotten bigger as more 0:12:26.160,0:12:29.360 people get online more people think 0:12:28.000,0:12:31.600 i'm going to be an influencer as a 0:12:29.360,0:12:33.120 career too right so you see a lot more 0:12:31.600,0:12:33.600 quote micro influencers and all these 0:12:33.120,0:12:35.279 kind of 0:12:33.600,0:12:36.800 basically this ad inventory that's 0:12:35.279,0:12:38.800 adding itself to be 0:12:36.800,0:12:40.399 tapped into but if you look back there 0:12:38.800,0:12:41.279 was a brand called daniel wellington 0:12:40.399,0:12:43.200 that made watches 0:12:41.279,0:12:44.639 and they became one of the first brands 0:12:43.200,0:12:46.160 this is pre-fashion nova 0:12:44.639,0:12:48.399 pre-all these brands they became the 0:12:46.160,0:12:50.000 first billion dollar brand off instagram 0:12:48.399,0:12:51.440 and they went from zero to a billion in 0:12:50.000,0:12:53.760 like less than 0:12:51.440,0:12:55.600 30 months 20 24 months maybe just 0:12:53.760,0:12:56.880 because they gifted influencers and 0:12:55.600,0:12:59.120 this was around the time that we were 0:12:56.880,0:13:00.240 doing all this stuff too pretty early 0:12:59.120,0:13:02.639 but yeah you're right we 0:13:00.240,0:13:03.920 i shut the business down in 2015 2016 0:13:02.639,0:13:06.079 because i thought the space was getting 0:13:03.920,0:13:08.000 congested and i figured that the future 0:13:06.079,0:13:09.440 was not really about being a marketplace 0:13:08.000,0:13:10.880 where you can come tap into our 0:13:09.440,0:13:12.880 influencers it would be 0:13:10.880,0:13:15.519 to enable a brand like american express 0:13:12.880,0:13:17.200 to have influencer.mx.com 0:13:15.519,0:13:18.720 where you create relationship equity 0:13:17.200,0:13:20.240 with these influencers over time so 0:13:18.720,0:13:21.440 instead of just paying a 30 0:13:20.240,0:13:23.360 fee every time you want to get some 0:13:21.440,0:13:24.800 performance you actually own the long 0:13:23.360,0:13:27.120 term relationship so you 0:13:24.800,0:13:28.959 basically a sas tool for influencer and 0:13:27.120,0:13:29.839 now that those are the leading tools for 0:13:28.959,0:13:32.959 the most part 0:13:29.839,0:13:35.279 uh our products like grin that help 0:13:32.959,0:13:36.880 enable brands to host and manage their 0:13:35.279,0:13:38.320 own influencer marketing campaigns 0:13:36.880,0:13:39.519 opposed to having to tap in 0:13:38.320,0:13:41.360 because at that point when you you're 0:13:39.519,0:13:42.800 just always paying for that help 0:13:41.360,0:13:43.920 and an influencer would rather work with 0:13:42.800,0:13:45.680 the brand directly than go through an 0:13:43.920,0:13:47.600 agency every time i i mean i know that i 0:13:45.680,0:13:48.079 would never post for taco bell for 25 0:13:47.600,0:13:49.839 bucks 0:13:48.079,0:13:51.120 but if i got a dm for taco bell from 0:13:49.839,0:13:52.240 them directly for a 25 0:13:51.120,0:13:53.839 post i'd probably do it just because 0:13:52.240,0:13:54.480 it'd be funny that taco bell diony 0:13:53.839,0:13:58.720 directed 0:13:54.480,0:14:00.880 right totally so i really enjoyed uh the 0:13:58.720,0:14:04.079 podcast with eric bandholz recently 0:14:00.880,0:14:05.199 um on practical commerce um i was 0:14:04.079,0:14:08.560 correct 0:14:05.199,0:14:11.199 what's that beard bread weird brand yeah 0:14:08.560,0:14:12.000 yeah i was i was i was checking i saw a 0:14:11.199,0:14:13.360 link to uh 0:14:12.000,0:14:15.279 a youtube video of some dude getting his 0:14:13.360,0:14:16.720 haircut there today and i was like yeah 0:14:15.279,0:14:19.040 i got to get my haircut there next time 0:14:16.720,0:14:20.399 yeah i got my hair there too is it was 0:14:19.040,0:14:22.560 it cool is it a cool experience 0:14:20.399,0:14:24.560 yeah so ironically my friend justine 0:14:22.560,0:14:25.440 that i've known for 12 plus years since 0:14:24.560,0:14:27.680 my space 0:14:25.440,0:14:28.480 longer uh before she was even in college 0:14:27.680,0:14:30.800 or did hair 0:14:28.480,0:14:31.920 she's now a hairdresser there and i went 0:14:30.800,0:14:33.120 to get her hair cut she used to have her 0:14:31.920,0:14:34.639 own studio and she's like oh i work at 0:14:33.120,0:14:35.279 this place beer brand now i'm like oh 0:14:34.639,0:14:39.360 what 0:14:35.279,0:14:40.959 you're like what that's awesome 0:14:39.360,0:14:42.800 it's great and i guess they've caught 0:14:40.959,0:14:44.959 you know noah kagan and 0:14:42.800,0:14:44.959 right 0:14:50.639,0:14:54.959 um but so it was funny like i was 0:14:53.760,0:14:56.399 cracking up at the part where you're 0:14:54.959,0:14:57.279 talking about like twitter follower 0:14:56.399,0:14:58.959 ratios 0:14:57.279,0:15:00.399 and i know you were talking about like 0:14:58.959,0:15:03.040 the phase where you were more like 0:15:00.399,0:15:04.800 growth hacking twitter versus like now 0:15:03.040,0:15:06.480 you just kind of use it organically post 0:15:04.800,0:15:07.199 whatever comes to mind without thinking 0:15:06.480,0:15:08.720 about 0:15:07.199,0:15:09.920 how to schedule it or what you know what 0:15:08.720,0:15:10.880 are people going to think which i think 0:15:09.920,0:15:14.480 is the more 0:15:10.880,0:15:16.000 kind of organic way to use it um 0:15:14.480,0:15:17.920 and i'll think about the ratio thing 0:15:16.000,0:15:19.040 sometimes too i'm like that's so stupid 0:15:17.920,0:15:20.639 you know such a stupid way 0:15:19.040,0:15:22.240 why do i use twitter because i want to 0:15:20.639,0:15:23.920 learn from people and hopefully 0:15:22.240,0:15:25.839 some people but mostly so i can 0:15:23.920,0:15:27.760 selfishly learn and if i'm only 0:15:25.839,0:15:28.959 following 900 people because i want to 0:15:27.760,0:15:30.639 look cool on twitter 0:15:28.959,0:15:32.560 that doesn't help me this means i'm only 0:15:30.639,0:15:33.120 learning to select few i want to open 0:15:32.560,0:15:34.560 the door 0:15:33.120,0:15:36.399 right like yeah i'm not going to limit 0:15:34.560,0:15:37.600 myself to the certain amount of books or 0:15:36.399,0:15:38.800 people i can learn from because i want 0:15:37.600,0:15:41.360 to look a certain way i'm done 0:15:38.800,0:15:42.959 yeah yeah the thing that i worry like 0:15:41.360,0:15:44.240 the thing now though if there's somebody 0:15:42.959,0:15:45.040 i'm like i think i want to follow them 0:15:44.240,0:15:48.480 but i'm not sure 0:15:45.040,0:15:49.839 is like if i follow them and then like a 0:15:48.480,0:15:51.279 few days later i'm like oh i'm not 0:15:49.839,0:15:52.639 really interested in that stuff and then 0:15:51.279,0:15:53.920 i unfollow 0:15:52.639,0:15:55.759 i feel like they're going to think i'm 0:15:53.920,0:15:58.720 doing some growth hacking on them so 0:15:55.759,0:16:01.519 then i'm like afraid to do the initial 0:15:58.720,0:16:03.279 i hate that that's how i feel but so 0:16:01.519,0:16:04.720 what i do now is i follow people and if 0:16:03.279,0:16:06.079 i don't like what they have to say all 0:16:04.720,0:16:07.279 the time i mute them so they're no 0:16:06.079,0:16:08.639 longer in my feed 0:16:07.279,0:16:09.920 yeah every now and then every now and 0:16:08.639,0:16:11.199 then i think about them or i see that 0:16:09.920,0:16:12.240 they liked something i said yeah then i 0:16:11.199,0:16:14.880 go to their profile 0:16:12.240,0:16:15.519 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i do a lot of 0:16:14.880,0:16:18.720 that too 0:16:15.519,0:16:20.480 um i love the way you use twitter and 0:16:18.720,0:16:20.880 just like you're like super transparent 0:16:20.480,0:16:22.480 about 0:16:20.880,0:16:24.240 everything like how you're sleeping to 0:16:22.480,0:16:25.839 just like stuff you're going through 0:16:24.240,0:16:26.160 which i think is a cool way for people 0:16:25.839,0:16:27.920 to 0:16:26.160,0:16:29.279 to use twitter just put themselves out 0:16:27.920,0:16:31.360 there you know 0:16:29.279,0:16:32.480 i mean life is hard being an 0:16:31.360,0:16:34.800 entrepreneur is hard 0:16:32.480,0:16:36.320 and yeah i've dealt with a lot of things 0:16:34.800,0:16:36.720 that probably people have dealt with and 0:16:36.320,0:16:38.560 maybe 0:16:36.720,0:16:41.120 most people have dealt with more but you 0:16:38.560,0:16:42.079 know i i'm not proud to say this but 0:16:41.120,0:16:44.240 just honestly like 0:16:42.079,0:16:45.920 when my last company shut down we were 0:16:44.240,0:16:46.880 you know in some acquisition talks to 0:16:45.920,0:16:48.880 buy our business for 0:16:46.880,0:16:50.480 a large eight-figure sum and it fell 0:16:48.880,0:16:51.839 through because my co-founder locked me 0:16:50.480,0:16:53.199 out of the code base and left with the 0:16:51.839,0:16:55.199 other three engineers and raised the 0:16:53.199,0:16:56.959 series a from someone else 0:16:55.199,0:16:59.040 and i had a i got addicted to xanax 0:16:56.959,0:17:00.639 because i was anxiety through the roof 0:16:59.040,0:17:02.720 oh i'm ready to go work at this massive 0:17:00.639,0:17:04.799 company that's about to buy us because 0:17:02.720,0:17:06.400 you know they see maker studios and all 0:17:04.799,0:17:08.000 these youtube mcns getting acquired for 0:17:06.400,0:17:09.039 hundreds of millions they can get us for 0:17:08.000,0:17:12.480 a fraction 0:17:09.039,0:17:13.760 more scrappy with a small team right so 0:17:12.480,0:17:15.679 all the way to now i'm looking at where 0:17:13.760,0:17:16.959 i am i'm thankful again to 0:17:15.679,0:17:19.439 be in a good position but yeah being an 0:17:16.959,0:17:21.199 entrepreneur is hard man 0:17:19.439,0:17:22.640 but i my honesty i hope is not coming 0:17:21.199,0:17:24.000 off ever as rude because sometimes i'm 0:17:22.640,0:17:26.240 opinionated but like 0:17:24.000,0:17:27.679 yeah things happen you know yeah i think 0:17:26.240,0:17:29.919 yeah i think there's that like when 0:17:27.679,0:17:31.039 people are honest and raw and direct it 0:17:29.919,0:17:33.039 can it can it can 0:17:31.039,0:17:34.080 cause for arguments and sometimes the 0:17:33.039,0:17:36.720 arguments can be 0:17:34.080,0:17:38.400 more constructive than others but i dude 0:17:36.720,0:17:40.320 i like i think that's 0:17:38.400,0:17:42.000 so cool that you can be so transparent 0:17:40.320,0:17:43.679 about that stuff i know like gary vee 0:17:42.000,0:17:45.760 talks about 0:17:43.679,0:17:47.600 the dark side of entrepreneurship a lot 0:17:45.760,0:17:49.440 right like a lot of people that 0:17:47.600,0:17:51.600 are super depressed or you're just 0:17:49.440,0:17:54.160 working alone like whatever and 0:17:51.600,0:17:55.919 and you can feel quite a bit of 0:17:54.160,0:17:58.240 depression and stuff like that so 0:17:55.919,0:18:00.160 100 i think that this is something that 0:17:58.240,0:18:00.799 like it's not popular to talk about it 0:18:00.160,0:18:02.480 because what 0:18:00.799,0:18:03.760 what's the answer that everyone wants to 0:18:02.480,0:18:05.919 hear that you want to tell everyone oh 0:18:03.760,0:18:08.240 we're crushing it everything's good 0:18:05.919,0:18:09.039 i mean i know for my my co-founder and i 0:18:08.240,0:18:11.120 we've spent 0:18:09.039,0:18:12.720 26 months on our business and we haven't 0:18:11.120,0:18:13.919 been the best at delegating like 0:18:12.720,0:18:15.760 to hire people because we're not the 0:18:13.919,0:18:18.799 best at trusting people and because we 0:18:15.760,0:18:19.520 both are very good at what we do uh do 0:18:18.799,0:18:20.799 it better 0:18:19.520,0:18:22.160 right but that's not that's not how you 0:18:20.799,0:18:23.440 scale a business right we haven't taken 0:18:22.160,0:18:25.120 a vacation in two years 0:18:23.440,0:18:26.799 and we're profitable we're growing we're 0:18:25.120,0:18:28.480 a phenomenal business i'm very happy for 0:18:26.799,0:18:28.960 the position we're in but i haven't done 0:18:28.480,0:18:32.480 a good 0:18:28.960,0:18:34.080 job allowing myself to live uh while 0:18:32.480,0:18:35.360 running i am the business not running 0:18:34.080,0:18:35.840 the whole business does that make sense 0:18:35.360,0:18:37.360 and so 0:18:35.840,0:18:39.360 we're learning that now and i think a 0:18:37.360,0:18:41.679 lot of people unfortunately and myself 0:18:39.360,0:18:43.200 have done this and still do is kind of 0:18:41.679,0:18:44.559 tie your business's worth to your 0:18:43.200,0:18:46.080 self-worth and that's a very 0:18:44.559,0:18:48.000 very slippery slope and scared it's a 0:18:46.080,0:18:48.320 date yeah it's a dangerous place to be 0:18:48.000,0:18:51.520 so 0:18:48.320,0:18:52.960 live recover uh your sms abandoned cart 0:18:51.520,0:18:55.520 uh solution 0:18:52.960,0:18:56.240 looks i mean i love it like it looks 0:18:55.520,0:18:57.520 incredible 0:18:56.240,0:18:59.360 it seems like you guys are doing 0:18:57.520,0:19:00.720 incredibly well um 0:18:59.360,0:19:02.960 another thing i picked up from that 0:19:00.720,0:19:05.840 podcast that you did was like 0:19:02.960,0:19:08.000 you know the industry really well uh you 0:19:05.840,0:19:09.679 don't bs when it comes to like different 0:19:08.000,0:19:11.120 tools people are using and things like 0:19:09.679,0:19:13.520 that so it seems 0:19:11.120,0:19:14.240 like a great solution and like your 0:19:13.520,0:19:17.039 offer 0:19:14.240,0:19:18.720 like 500 risk-free trial don't even have 0:19:17.039,0:19:21.200 to put a credit card down 0:19:18.720,0:19:24.000 is like to me that's nuts like that's 0:19:21.200,0:19:25.440 got to be converting really well for you 0:19:24.000,0:19:27.600 it converts well right i mean we don't 0:19:25.440,0:19:28.720 want anyone to feel like we're asking 0:19:27.600,0:19:30.640 for anything up front 0:19:28.720,0:19:32.240 we'll give you you know two weeks of 0:19:30.640,0:19:33.840 usage or 500 0:19:32.240,0:19:35.679 in revenue up front obviously we have 0:19:33.840,0:19:37.600 bigger stores joined sometimes that 0:19:35.679,0:19:39.440 recover 5 000 in a day right we don't 0:19:37.600,0:19:40.880 cap them at 500 we give them 0:19:39.440,0:19:42.160 you know you should have enough data 0:19:40.880,0:19:44.000 after a day or two if you've generated 0:19:42.160,0:19:46.080 that much recovered revenue in a day 0:19:44.000,0:19:47.600 but for the most part yeah the offer is 0:19:46.080,0:19:48.480 pretty good we know where we stand in 0:19:47.600,0:19:50.880 the market we're 0:19:48.480,0:19:52.559 we're we're supportive of our of our 0:19:50.880,0:19:54.320 competitors right if anything we're all 0:19:52.559,0:19:54.799 bringing more education to the space 0:19:54.320,0:19:56.640 which 0:19:54.799,0:19:58.559 hopefully draws more market pool to more 0:19:56.640,0:20:00.400 people wanting to try solutions and 0:19:58.559,0:20:02.240 you know i don't mind if a customer 0:20:00.400,0:20:04.320 outgrows us and ends up at 0:20:02.240,0:20:06.000 postscript or attentive and i also love 0:20:04.320,0:20:07.600 to be a part of the conversation if our 0:20:06.000,0:20:09.200 product is used in parallel with 0:20:07.600,0:20:10.559 postscript and attentive which we see a 0:20:09.200,0:20:11.840 lot right because we're uh 0:20:10.559,0:20:12.960 you know we like to think of ourselves 0:20:11.840,0:20:14.240 and i know i've said this before but we 0:20:12.960,0:20:15.520 think of ourselves as a steak knife and 0:20:14.240,0:20:16.960 they're a swiss army knife we're not 0:20:15.520,0:20:17.600 building a swiss army knife but whenever 0:20:16.960,0:20:21.039 you want to cut 0:20:17.600,0:20:22.559 deep use us right and force either not 0:20:21.039,0:20:22.960 potentially being a situation where 0:20:22.559,0:20:24.960 we're 0:20:22.960,0:20:26.400 maybe even a managed solution on top of 0:20:24.960,0:20:27.600 postscript or a tenant because 0:20:26.400,0:20:29.440 we know where we sit we don't want to 0:20:27.600,0:20:30.480 build a 100 million or even a billion 0:20:29.440,0:20:32.880 dollar business 0:20:30.480,0:20:33.600 we're cool with a 10 to 20 million 0:20:32.880,0:20:36.640 dollar 0:20:33.600,0:20:37.120 quote lifestyle business hey with 60 to 0:20:36.640,0:20:38.960 70 0:20:37.120,0:20:40.640 margins i will agree i love this 0:20:38.960,0:20:44.080 business it's a great business yeah 0:20:40.640,0:20:46.640 um yeah i so i actually built an email 0:20:44.080,0:20:48.559 abandoned cart software for magento like 0:20:46.640,0:20:49.600 i know five years ago a small got a 0:20:48.559,0:20:52.080 small acquisition 0:20:49.600,0:20:54.159 out of it and it feels like this is like 0:20:52.080,0:20:56.240 a new and improved version of that like 0:20:54.159,0:20:59.760 that was for magento and it was email 0:20:56.240,0:21:03.440 this is text for for shopify um 0:20:59.760,0:21:05.440 and uh it's it's uh it's funny i think i 0:21:03.440,0:21:07.600 was sort of very short-sighted 0:21:05.440,0:21:09.919 when it came to thinking about 0:21:07.600,0:21:12.720 competitors like if somebody was 0:21:09.919,0:21:14.559 even uh remotely a competitor i was like 0:21:12.720,0:21:16.640 i don't want to talk to you 0:21:14.559,0:21:18.640 where competitors and then it took me a 0:21:16.640,0:21:20.159 while after the fact to realize that 0:21:18.640,0:21:22.000 like i had a customer that was using 0:21:20.159,0:21:24.480 both my solution 0:21:22.000,0:21:25.280 and another email solution together and 0:21:24.480,0:21:28.080 i was like oh 0:21:25.280,0:21:29.360 it's the same thing you're saying like 0:21:28.080,0:21:31.200 to the extent that the tools are 0:21:29.360,0:21:32.400 different customers can use you in 0:21:31.200,0:21:34.640 different contexts 0:21:32.400,0:21:37.120 you know right and we know that we are 0:21:34.640,0:21:39.280 we are a product we are not a platform 0:21:37.120,0:21:41.200 uh and we went about that intentionally 0:21:39.280,0:21:43.200 i have a co-founder who's an amazing guy 0:21:41.200,0:21:45.039 he's extremely smart he's too smart to 0:21:43.200,0:21:45.919 be building sms marketing software which 0:21:45.039,0:21:47.200 is why we 0:21:45.919,0:21:49.200 you know deliberately said let's just 0:21:47.200,0:21:51.760 build the best product that we can 0:21:49.200,0:21:53.760 let's let other people build the 50 the 0:21:51.760,0:21:55.120 250 person team that want to build a 0:21:53.760,0:21:58.400 platform and support 0:21:55.120,0:22:00.000 10 000 customers we'll take the couple 0:21:58.400,0:22:00.960 thousand customers and run a nice 0:22:00.000,0:22:02.400 profitable business 0:22:00.960,0:22:04.480 and then we'll rinse and repeat right i 0:22:02.400,0:22:05.840 mean we have enough ideas to 0:22:04.480,0:22:08.000 to make a few more businesses if we 0:22:05.840,0:22:10.320 wanted to or to decide on a more 0:22:08.000,0:22:12.240 challenging uh problem yes 0:22:10.320,0:22:13.760 the vc thing is interesting like i've 0:22:12.240,0:22:14.480 always been very kind of bootstrap 0:22:13.760,0:22:16.240 oriented 0:22:14.480,0:22:18.080 um and i know you were posting about 0:22:16.240,0:22:18.720 like the fast evaluation recently and 0:22:18.080,0:22:22.000 stuff like that 0:22:18.720,0:22:24.080 it's such a it's such a weird thing 0:22:22.000,0:22:25.120 with company valuations there's a lot of 0:22:24.080,0:22:28.240 stuff that's uh 0:22:25.120,0:22:30.720 seems very inflated and just weird 0:22:28.240,0:22:31.600 there is have you seen the uh it's uh 0:22:30.720,0:22:34.240 chamath 0:22:31.600,0:22:35.600 and jason talking about the vt ponzi 0:22:34.240,0:22:37.039 scheme that's just what i think 0:22:35.600,0:22:38.880 of because i'm like i'm not 0:22:37.039,0:22:39.200 disrespecting fast i think that they 0:22:38.880,0:22:41.280 have 0:22:39.200,0:22:42.799 some really talented people they have a 0:22:41.280,0:22:44.080 very big organization for what seems 0:22:42.799,0:22:45.360 like a product that doesn't have a lot 0:22:44.080,0:22:46.960 of adoption yet and that 0:22:45.360,0:22:48.559 that's not to say that they won't but 0:22:46.960,0:22:50.000 because they're entering entering such a 0:22:48.559,0:22:50.960 mature space i have a hard time 0:22:50.000,0:22:52.159 understanding like 0:22:50.960,0:22:54.320 shopify is not letting you on their 0:22:52.159,0:22:56.400 platform you're literally your valuation 0:22:54.320,0:22:57.360 is as much as the platform big commerce 0:22:56.400,0:22:59.600 that you're supporting 0:22:57.360,0:23:01.039 one billion dollar valuation raising at 0:22:59.600,0:23:03.200 200 million at one billion 0:23:01.039,0:23:04.400 big commerce ipod at 1.1 billion how are 0:23:03.200,0:23:04.720 you bigger than the platform that you're 0:23:04.400,0:23:06.320 on 0:23:04.720,0:23:08.400 if you're blocking the other platforms 0:23:06.320,0:23:10.320 you'll never be on amazon pal has their 0:23:08.400,0:23:13.679 own solution for the rest of the web 0:23:10.320,0:23:16.480 apple pay exists well vetmo cash app 0:23:13.679,0:23:17.840 right so for me i'm just after pay quad 0:23:16.480,0:23:20.080 pay i'm just thinking 0:23:17.840,0:23:21.520 you're a little late to party uh right 0:23:20.080,0:23:22.559 granted there are some very cool people 0:23:21.520,0:23:24.080 that work there and talented people but 0:23:22.559,0:23:26.400 it doesn't change the fact 0:23:24.080,0:23:27.760 right yeah no that that that doesn't 0:23:26.400,0:23:28.240 make sense i hadn't even thought it 0:23:27.760,0:23:30.799 through 0:23:28.240,0:23:31.679 uh in those different dimensions but 0:23:30.799,0:23:33.200 yeah there is a 0:23:31.679,0:23:35.440 quite a bit of it seems like there's a 0:23:33.200,0:23:37.440 lot of limitation there on on the growth 0:23:35.440,0:23:38.480 um and i mean that's how that is right 0:23:37.440,0:23:40.159 now they're right i mean look at our 0:23:38.480,0:23:41.360 competitors and this is i'm applauding 0:23:40.159,0:23:42.640 them for this because this is helping 0:23:41.360,0:23:45.279 our valuation too 0:23:42.640,0:23:47.600 but our competitors i mean attentive has 0:23:45.279,0:23:48.799 raised 390 million dollars at a 2.2 0:23:47.600,0:23:50.480 billion dollar valuation 0:23:48.799,0:23:52.880 that means that their only next option 0:23:50.480,0:23:53.679 is to either buy mailchimp or clayvio 0:23:52.880,0:23:56.640 and then they're going to compete 0:23:53.679,0:23:58.480 against salesforce like they're too big 0:23:56.640,0:23:59.840 like that's not kind of that's beyond 0:23:58.480,0:24:00.480 anything i'm thinking about yeah i'm 0:23:59.840,0:24:02.080 like 0:24:00.480,0:24:04.720 probably in the 100 million valuation 0:24:02.080,0:24:06.640 range maybe right that's great 0:24:04.720,0:24:08.159 and live recovery fits in for those who 0:24:06.640,0:24:09.360 who you know who don't 0:24:08.159,0:24:11.039 who want a premium service for a 0:24:09.360,0:24:12.559 platform it's very weird to look but 0:24:11.039,0:24:13.840 we're okay with where we sit if that 0:24:12.559,0:24:15.120 makes sense some people want to 0:24:13.840,0:24:16.880 compete with everyone and race to the 0:24:15.120,0:24:18.799 front of the line i'm not saying i'm in 0:24:16.880,0:24:19.360 a race i'm happy with taking third place 0:24:18.799,0:24:22.320 of a 0:24:19.360,0:24:23.360 huge line uh for this is not my ambition 0:24:22.320,0:24:26.799 for this project 0:24:23.360,0:24:28.559 yeah yeah it's uh yeah i've always been 0:24:26.799,0:24:30.240 real bootstrap boy and it's just like 0:24:28.559,0:24:32.559 you can have a simple 0:24:30.240,0:24:34.400 business that you know is makes sense 0:24:32.559,0:24:36.000 it's saying you can have a work schedule 0:24:34.400,0:24:37.679 that's a little more sane 0:24:36.000,0:24:39.039 right you said your business right you 0:24:37.679,0:24:40.240 maybe wouldn't have been able to it was 0:24:39.039,0:24:41.600 vc back you probably would 0:24:40.240,0:24:43.360 have to swing for the offenses or 0:24:41.600,0:24:45.440 whatever yeah right 0:24:43.360,0:24:47.840 yeah yeah what dude when it comes to 0:24:45.440,0:24:49.600 twilio man i i i'm like 0:24:47.840,0:24:50.880 i should have invested in twilight like 0:24:49.600,0:24:51.919 it's probably still a good time to 0:24:50.880,0:24:54.559 invest it's about that 0:24:51.919,0:24:55.279 i said i was i posted a whole thread 0:24:54.559,0:24:56.880 that said 0:24:55.279,0:24:58.559 if i look at the two companies we built 0:24:56.880,0:25:00.080 their home whole business on when we 0:24:58.559,0:25:01.679 started live recovery shopify was 0:25:00.080,0:25:05.039 trading at eighty-eight dollars 0:25:01.679,0:25:06.480 and twilio was 25. now shopify is 0:25:05.039,0:25:07.520 trading over a thousand and twilio's 0:25:06.480,0:25:09.840 trading over three hundred 0:25:07.520,0:25:11.440 so we could have made over 800 to a 0:25:09.840,0:25:12.240 thousand percent returns on our money if 0:25:11.440,0:25:13.679 we put the money 0:25:12.240,0:25:15.279 into the companies that we built our 0:25:13.679,0:25:16.559 whole business around is that a little 0:25:15.279,0:25:17.919 bit scary to have all 0:25:16.559,0:25:19.919 risk in the companies you're using but 0:25:17.919,0:25:21.360 yeah if you're if you support and you're 0:25:19.919,0:25:22.480 building a business around these tools 0:25:21.360,0:25:22.960 you should probably have some money in 0:25:22.480,0:25:25.120 them 0:25:22.960,0:25:26.799 yeah and i saw somebody say recently 0:25:25.120,0:25:28.799 like if you are 0:25:26.799,0:25:30.880 um at like as somebody that's in tech 0:25:28.799,0:25:32.720 and if you're using a tool 0:25:30.880,0:25:34.159 like you you don't feel like you're an 0:25:32.720,0:25:35.039 early adopter like if you're using 0:25:34.159,0:25:36.480 twilio 0:25:35.039,0:25:38.720 you don't feel like you're an early 0:25:36.480,0:25:40.799 adopter of twilio because anybody that's 0:25:38.720,0:25:43.520 building an app is using twilio for tech 0:25:40.799,0:25:44.640 for sms but compared to the whole 0:25:43.520,0:25:46.559 population 0:25:44.640,0:25:47.919 you are an early adopter so if you know 0:25:46.559,0:25:49.679 a tool is good 0:25:47.919,0:25:50.960 you should be investing in it you know 0:25:49.679,0:25:52.960 right right that's why 0:25:50.960,0:25:54.400 i mean i bought back in you know like a 0:25:52.960,0:25:56.640 month and a half ago because i know 0:25:54.400,0:25:57.760 how are politicians these days oh wait 0:25:56.640,0:25:59.440 it's through sms 0:25:57.760,0:26:00.960 if you want to do contactless and 0:25:59.440,0:26:02.559 touchless like book 0:26:00.960,0:26:04.000 an apartment give me feedback at 0:26:02.559,0:26:04.799 starbucks it's no longer called my 0:26:04.000,0:26:06.559 manager it's 0:26:04.799,0:26:07.760 text this number i mean i see it 0:26:06.559,0:26:08.960 everywhere i pay attention to because 0:26:07.760,0:26:10.080 this is what i do for work 0:26:08.960,0:26:11.919 right i'm just thinking about it from 0:26:10.080,0:26:12.880 the grand scheme twilio is the one 0:26:11.919,0:26:15.279 that's winning here 0:26:12.880,0:26:17.520 i mean they just bought right three 0:26:15.279,0:26:18.880 billion dollars and i use segment also 0:26:17.520,0:26:20.720 i'm like [ __ ] they were a private 0:26:18.880,0:26:21.919 company i couldn't acquire any 0:26:20.720,0:26:24.240 shares i guess if i was you know 0:26:21.919,0:26:25.279 whatever secondary shares but i'm not an 0:26:24.240,0:26:29.600 investor that has money 0:26:25.279,0:26:31.840 right but yeah i mean to your point yes 0:26:29.600,0:26:34.080 yeah so i think you said that you guys 0:26:31.840,0:26:35.039 did the text messages for andrew yang's 0:26:34.080,0:26:36.720 campaign 0:26:35.039,0:26:38.320 we did we did the political donation 0:26:36.720,0:26:41.360 recovery for andrew yang of russia 0:26:38.320,0:26:43.919 that's wild man he i mean he 0:26:41.360,0:26:44.559 he's a cool dude like you know i mean 0:26:43.919,0:26:46.400 like 0:26:44.559,0:26:48.159 exactly how well will some of those 0:26:46.400,0:26:51.360 ideas work out it's hard to say but 0:26:48.159,0:26:54.000 you have to admit it's impressive how 0:26:51.360,0:26:56.000 quickly he got his ideas out there and 0:26:54.000,0:26:56.880 really how well he got his message out 0:26:56.000,0:26:59.120 there 0:26:56.880,0:27:01.039 i he's just a guy i respect to because 0:26:59.120,0:27:01.360 he doesn't like he doesn't play the game 0:27:01.039,0:27:03.120 of 0:27:01.360,0:27:04.840 you know of like politics and stuff like 0:27:03.120,0:27:06.480 that but he seems like a political 0:27:04.840,0:27:09.200 non-politician and 0:27:06.480,0:27:10.240 we were honestly it was the easiest i 0:27:09.200,0:27:13.360 actually didn't know this but 0:27:10.240,0:27:15.440 i dm'd him on twitter yeah he followed 0:27:13.360,0:27:15.919 exactly like your app sounds sick let's 0:27:15.440,0:27:18.240 go 0:27:15.919,0:27:19.200 and i'm like dude that's awesome we 0:27:18.240,0:27:21.120 signed up we 0:27:19.200,0:27:23.039 recovered over a million dollars for him 0:27:21.120,0:27:24.480 in like two months or three months 0:27:23.039,0:27:25.520 and then i found out that the whole time 0:27:24.480,0:27:26.720 i didn't know this while we were working 0:27:25.520,0:27:27.679 with him my friend was running his 0:27:26.720,0:27:29.200 facebook ads 0:27:27.679,0:27:30.960 to generate the traffic to get the 0:27:29.200,0:27:32.320 donations and he was an 18 year old kid 0:27:30.960,0:27:32.880 who also ran the campaign for the 0:27:32.320,0:27:36.080 bloomberg 0:27:32.880,0:27:37.760 ads that's wild all small 0:27:36.080,0:27:39.120 very small circle but yeah andrew yang's 0:27:37.760,0:27:40.799 a very progressive guy 0:27:39.120,0:27:42.559 uh i don't know if you know i thought 0:27:40.799,0:27:44.399 like you said his ideas were very 0:27:42.559,0:27:45.919 progressive and unique some of them also 0:27:44.399,0:27:47.200 were a little premature if he had 0:27:45.919,0:27:48.799 still been running during equipment i 0:27:47.200,0:27:49.600 think he would have had a massive influx 0:27:48.799,0:27:52.640 in voter support 0:27:49.600,0:27:54.399 but right it knew the recovery for him 0:27:52.640,0:27:56.320 uh which was you know at the time one of 0:27:54.399,0:27:57.039 our bigger one of our bigger clients but 0:27:56.320,0:27:58.720 we do have 0:27:57.039,0:28:00.000 customers that are doing you know i 0:27:58.720,0:28:01.679 think we have a couple customers that 0:28:00.000,0:28:02.080 have recovered you know in the 5 to 10 0:28:01.679,0:28:05.039 million 0:28:02.080,0:28:06.399 range i saw the the the tweet you posted 0:28:05.039,0:28:07.679 recently i can't remember the numbers 0:28:06.399,0:28:10.159 offhand but it was some 0:28:07.679,0:28:11.520 huge numbers might have been four 0:28:10.159,0:28:12.880 million dollars you recovered or 0:28:11.520,0:28:14.720 something like that four and a half 0:28:12.880,0:28:16.720 million recovered in in a little over a 0:28:14.720,0:28:19.760 year and a couple months with like a 0:28:16.720,0:28:21.120 15 recovery rate or something um it's 0:28:19.760,0:28:23.039 incredible 0:28:21.120,0:28:25.120 but then i think about you know we have 0:28:23.039,0:28:26.880 thousands of customers and in aggregate 0:28:25.120,0:28:28.480 you know those numbers are really big 0:28:26.880,0:28:29.919 and then i think wow i can't 0:28:28.480,0:28:31.919 i really would love the opportunity to 0:28:29.919,0:28:34.159 do this for walmart.com or 0:28:31.919,0:28:35.679 or someone that does billions a year 0:28:34.159,0:28:37.039 online where i can say look just by 0:28:35.679,0:28:38.720 acquiring our tool you can look at the 0:28:37.039,0:28:40.720 data across all of our merchants but 0:28:38.720,0:28:42.159 if you have your unilever if you're 0:28:40.720,0:28:43.120 procter and gamble and you direct to 0:28:42.159,0:28:45.120 consumer 0:28:43.120,0:28:46.320 like we could bring in hundreds of 0:28:45.120,0:28:48.080 millions of dollars 0:28:46.320,0:28:50.159 minimum based on you seeing the data 0:28:48.080,0:28:51.520 from these stores imagine your stores 0:28:50.159,0:28:53.120 your offers 0:28:51.520,0:28:55.120 i mean anyway i know i'm just tooting my 0:28:53.120,0:28:57.440 own homes i'm biased but 0:28:55.120,0:28:58.720 it's crazy to look at that's what this 0:28:57.440,0:29:00.880 is 0:28:58.720,0:29:02.640 yeah yeah no that's that's awesome are 0:29:00.880,0:29:04.159 there limitations when it comes to if 0:29:02.640,0:29:05.840 they're if like you said a walmart who 0:29:04.159,0:29:06.960 knows what ecommerce platform they're on 0:29:05.840,0:29:07.679 or they're probably on a ton of 0:29:06.960,0:29:10.320 different ones 0:29:07.679,0:29:12.080 i believe you guys focus on shopify but 0:29:10.320,0:29:15.520 you also support other 0:29:12.080,0:29:16.000 platforms as well um would you be able 0:29:15.520,0:29:18.799 to 0:29:16.000,0:29:20.640 do like does your solution plug into any 0:29:18.799,0:29:21.679 different platform to headless platforms 0:29:20.640,0:29:23.679 and stuff like that 0:29:21.679,0:29:25.279 good question so right now we have a 0:29:23.679,0:29:26.320 obviously a shopify app which has been 0:29:25.279,0:29:28.159 up for two years 0:29:26.320,0:29:30.000 our woocommerce app has been live for 0:29:28.159,0:29:30.480 about three months with a couple of 0:29:30.000,0:29:32.399 couples 0:29:30.480,0:29:34.240 a couple customers there we have a big 0:29:32.399,0:29:35.200 commerce app that was just submitted to 0:29:34.240,0:29:36.480 bigcommerce so 0:29:35.200,0:29:38.320 i don't know if it's approved yet in 0:29:36.480,0:29:40.640 their app directory but the app is 0:29:38.320,0:29:42.480 done we also have a magento plug-in that 0:29:40.640,0:29:44.240 we're testing with a few stores 0:29:42.480,0:29:46.720 uh like i say a few like literally i 0:29:44.240,0:29:49.679 think we have three magenta stores 0:29:46.720,0:29:50.559 and then we have we just pushed support 0:29:49.679,0:29:52.880 today 0:29:50.559,0:29:54.080 for uh for crate joy which is a local 0:29:52.880,0:29:57.200 austin company as well i 0:29:54.080,0:29:58.399 saw that yeah congrats on that today we 0:29:57.200,0:30:00.000 support crate joy 0:29:58.399,0:30:02.000 uh and then we do have an api which 0:30:00.000,0:30:03.200 would allow us technically to integrate 0:30:02.000,0:30:05.360 into any website 0:30:03.200,0:30:07.520 but someone like walmart or like anyone 0:30:05.360,0:30:08.320 of that scale we would have to hire the 0:30:07.520,0:30:10.880 customer 0:30:08.320,0:30:11.840 aim just to support that integration and 0:30:10.880,0:30:13.520 have dev support 0:30:11.840,0:30:14.799 and just non-stop i mean that would be 0:30:13.520,0:30:16.000 obviously an annual contract type of 0:30:14.799,0:30:18.640 situation and we're 0:30:16.000,0:30:20.559 we're not an enterprise tool since we're 0:30:18.640,0:30:22.480 a managed service but the software we 0:30:20.559,0:30:24.159 built could easily be white labeled so 0:30:22.480,0:30:26.399 that walmart's reps could become 0:30:24.159,0:30:27.919 our texting agents and then use it for 0:30:26.399,0:30:30.799 that business if that makes sense 0:30:27.919,0:30:32.880 um but yeah that would require you know 0:30:30.799,0:30:34.320 our api integration and to be honest and 0:30:32.880,0:30:35.600 like transparent we haven't done any 0:30:34.320,0:30:37.360 custom 0:30:35.600,0:30:38.720 api integrations yet just because that 0:30:37.360,0:30:40.480 requires an 0:30:38.720,0:30:41.919 annual contract an enterprise deal and 0:30:40.480,0:30:44.960 that's more salesforce 0:30:41.919,0:30:47.279 custom solutions um yeah stations but 0:30:44.960,0:30:49.679 no no customers of that uh sort of up 0:30:47.279,0:30:51.520 top market yeah just mid market 0:30:49.679,0:30:53.360 it's kind of a like when it when it 0:30:51.520,0:30:55.120 comes to dealing with those bigger deals 0:30:53.360,0:30:57.760 like it's kind of ties a little bit into 0:30:55.120,0:30:59.679 that vc conversation where 0:30:57.760,0:31:01.440 instead of keeping things simple as a 0:30:59.679,0:31:03.200 bootstrap business like you're dealing 0:31:01.440,0:31:03.840 with a different segment of the market 0:31:03.200,0:31:05.440 where 0:31:03.840,0:31:07.200 there's a lot more work it's a much 0:31:05.440,0:31:09.360 longer sales cycle there's like 0:31:07.200,0:31:10.399 probably more bs to deal with it and 0:31:09.360,0:31:11.440 then all of a sudden 0:31:10.399,0:31:13.600 do you guys have enough money in the 0:31:11.440,0:31:14.720 bank to stay around to support us 0:31:13.600,0:31:16.000 like what kind of question is that we're 0:31:14.720,0:31:17.120 bootstrapped and we're here we're having 0:31:16.000,0:31:18.399 this conversation 0:31:17.120,0:31:19.679 like well yeah we could have bought it 0:31:18.399,0:31:20.460 here too why aren't you glad that i made 0:31:19.679,0:31:24.640 it here on my own 0:31:20.460,0:31:26.640 [Laughter] 0:31:24.640,0:31:28.320 i respect you right like if i was to use 0:31:26.640,0:31:29.600 a app and i said hey am i going to build 0:31:28.320,0:31:30.880 my business around your app and you're 0:31:29.600,0:31:32.240 only two months old 0:31:30.880,0:31:34.240 i'd have a different opinion than if you 0:31:32.240,0:31:35.760 were 24 months old versus if you were 0:31:34.240,0:31:37.600 two months old but you had 50 million in 0:31:35.760,0:31:39.440 the bank 0:31:37.600,0:31:41.519 all very situational um hopefully more 0:31:39.440,0:31:43.679 people start to to give a little bit of 0:31:41.519,0:31:45.440 trust and trust and want to risk on on 0:31:43.679,0:31:46.559 bootstrap companies because i think 0:31:45.440,0:31:47.679 i think we're going to see that that's 0:31:46.559,0:31:49.279 sort of the future way to build a 0:31:47.679,0:31:51.600 business uh if you want to live a 0:31:49.279,0:31:52.960 healthy lifestyle of course if you want 0:31:51.600,0:31:54.960 grand slam and you want to become a 0:31:52.960,0:31:56.080 billionaire i think you should raise vc 0:31:54.960,0:31:57.279 i don't want to try to become a 0:31:56.080,0:31:58.880 billionaire but i like my odds at 0:31:57.279,0:31:59.919 getting to 10 to 20 million a year a lot 0:31:58.880,0:32:00.880 better than i do at getting to a 0:31:59.919,0:32:03.600 billionaire 0:32:00.880,0:32:04.159 i i like them too i like them too i love 0:32:03.600,0:32:05.840 um 0:32:04.159,0:32:07.600 with your with the text messages that 0:32:05.840,0:32:09.519 you guys send i saw like a screenshot of 0:32:07.600,0:32:12.399 one of your ads and it's like hey 0:32:09.519,0:32:13.840 you know customer first name i saw you 0:32:12.399,0:32:14.720 were looking at the nitro coffee 0:32:13.840,0:32:16.559 whatever i can't 0:32:14.720,0:32:18.720 um can i do you want to discount 0:32:16.559,0:32:20.720 something like that yeah there's so many 0:32:18.720,0:32:22.960 things so i built an email abandoned car 0:32:20.720,0:32:25.039 thing so i pay a lot of attention 0:32:22.960,0:32:27.039 i pay i pay a lot of attention to like 0:32:25.039,0:32:28.720 the little things and like 0:32:27.039,0:32:30.480 one of the things that i didn't used to 0:32:28.720,0:32:33.039 like about a lot of email was 0:32:30.480,0:32:35.360 it was so long there's just all this not 0:32:33.039,0:32:38.000 and so i would try to simplify it down 0:32:35.360,0:32:39.679 and i love like there's several things i 0:32:38.000,0:32:41.519 like about those text messages i like 0:32:39.679,0:32:43.440 how for example you say 0:32:41.519,0:32:44.559 um do you want to see if i can get you a 0:32:43.440,0:32:46.799 discount 0:32:44.559,0:32:48.960 it's a subtle thing but it's it's it's 0:32:46.799,0:32:51.200 it's such a better message than like 0:32:48.960,0:32:53.840 click here for five percent off or 0:32:51.200,0:32:57.200 something like that because 0:32:53.840,0:32:59.919 in your cart thanks 0:32:57.200,0:32:59.919 i know that yeah 0:33:00.240,0:33:03.360 something do i want a discount don't 0:33:02.080,0:33:05.840 want a discount 0:33:03.360,0:33:06.720 right right right you call me by name 0:33:05.840,0:33:08.240 you remind me what's 0:33:06.720,0:33:09.679 in the product in the cart and we check 0:33:08.240,0:33:11.360 what's the most valuable product in the 0:33:09.679,0:33:14.480 car if there's more than one item so we 0:33:11.360,0:33:15.600 prioritize it by value right but yeah to 0:33:14.480,0:33:17.039 your point we're also 0:33:15.600,0:33:19.279 that's one problem we're trying to hope 0:33:17.039,0:33:20.799 solve is we've been discount centric as 0:33:19.279,0:33:22.480 an app so there are some apps 0:33:20.799,0:33:24.320 i'm sorry some brands and merchants that 0:33:22.480,0:33:25.840 say hey ah i want to use live recovery 0:33:24.320,0:33:28.159 but we don't discount uh 0:33:25.840,0:33:29.440 right focus brand we're a luxury brand 0:33:28.159,0:33:31.039 or whatever and 0:33:29.440,0:33:32.960 shipping is already included so the 0:33:31.039,0:33:35.120 performance might not be there 0:33:32.960,0:33:38.000 because you're just reiterating what's 0:33:35.120,0:33:38.000 already there okay 0:33:38.240,0:33:40.720 the future of the product is going to 0:33:39.360,0:33:42.000 have something called a message 0:33:40.720,0:33:44.720 segmentation 0:33:42.000,0:33:45.679 uh which might come in q4 but q1 at the 0:33:44.720,0:33:47.440 at the latest 0:33:45.679,0:33:49.440 but this will allow you to ask different 0:33:47.440,0:33:52.240 questions based on things like 0:33:49.440,0:33:54.000 if cart value is less than 30 and i know 0:33:52.240,0:33:55.200 my average order value is 35. 0:33:54.000,0:33:57.200 instead of offering them a discount 0:33:55.200,0:33:58.799 let's find out why they left 0:33:57.200,0:34:00.480 hey i saw you're checking out this would 0:33:58.799,0:34:01.840 you be willing to share why you didn't 0:34:00.480,0:34:02.799 buy or is there any questions i could 0:34:01.840,0:34:04.640 help you with 0:34:02.799,0:34:06.640 now they're still engaging and asking a 0:34:04.640,0:34:08.159 question and hopefully learning from it 0:34:06.640,0:34:09.280 and then maybe even recovering the sale 0:34:08.159,0:34:09.919 without incentivizing them with the 0:34:09.280,0:34:12.159 discount 0:34:09.919,0:34:13.839 of course if we did that now and your 0:34:12.159,0:34:14.720 first time ex your first impression with 0:34:13.839,0:34:17.200 liver cover is 0:34:14.720,0:34:19.119 hey you advertised 21 abandoned cart 0:34:17.200,0:34:21.280 recovery rates i just tried your app and 0:34:19.119,0:34:23.040 i got six percent your app sucks 0:34:21.280,0:34:24.560 i'm like well you're also not offering 0:34:23.040,0:34:26.800 discounts uh 0:34:24.560,0:34:28.240 and the rest of our our companies do 0:34:26.800,0:34:29.760 that's what we do we try to win someone 0:34:28.240,0:34:31.200 back right your goal is to acquire a 0:34:29.760,0:34:33.040 customer and after that you own that 0:34:31.200,0:34:34.480 customer your ltv might be 0:34:33.040,0:34:36.079 a thousand bucks and you just paid us 0:34:34.480,0:34:37.520 four dollars to acquire a customer i 0:34:36.079,0:34:40.560 think the math there works out 0:34:37.520,0:34:42.560 uh even if your ltv's 40 and you paid us 0:34:40.560,0:34:46.240 for well i think that's still okay 0:34:42.560,0:34:48.800 uh right so i think you know it just uh 0:34:46.240,0:34:51.520 you kind of have to you got to focus on 0:34:48.800,0:34:52.159 kind of the like the the niche that is 0:34:51.520,0:34:55.040 working 0:34:52.159,0:34:55.760 and you probably have a lot of market 0:34:55.040,0:34:58.000 yet to 0:34:55.760,0:34:59.440 to cover right with the solution that's 0:34:58.000,0:35:00.560 working which is a little discount 0:34:59.440,0:35:03.040 oriented 0:35:00.560,0:35:04.960 um that makes sense i feel like people 0:35:03.040,0:35:07.680 would probably respond well though like 0:35:04.960,0:35:09.680 you're saying to like a simple like 0:35:07.680,0:35:11.359 question maybe that was kind of specific 0:35:09.680,0:35:13.440 to the industry 0:35:11.359,0:35:14.880 right like if it's the cbd products 0:35:13.440,0:35:15.520 maybe there's certain types of questions 0:35:14.880,0:35:18.079 they had 0:35:15.520,0:35:18.880 it's you know we do notice that some 0:35:18.079,0:35:20.880 brands will see 0:35:18.880,0:35:22.880 we'll use our segmentation tool and say 0:35:20.880,0:35:24.640 like i want to exclude carts that are 0:35:22.880,0:35:25.839 under my average order value 0:35:24.640,0:35:27.440 don't even send them text because 0:35:25.839,0:35:28.720 they're not worth recovering in my eyes 0:35:27.440,0:35:31.119 aka they're kind of a 0:35:28.720,0:35:32.800 not low no not low quality but a low 0:35:31.119,0:35:35.040 value customer in the funnel 0:35:32.800,0:35:36.240 and so offering them a discount i want 0:35:35.040,0:35:38.000 to know why they abandoned 0:35:36.240,0:35:40.320 that would be a scenario where we don't 0:35:38.000,0:35:42.240 even send texts because they've excluded 0:35:40.320,0:35:43.760 that whole segment of an audience 0:35:42.240,0:35:45.680 now instead of ignoring them we can 0:35:43.760,0:35:46.640 hopefully recoup enough sales where it's 0:35:45.680,0:35:48.640 profitable for us 0:35:46.640,0:35:50.320 and the brand and then also the merchant 0:35:48.640,0:35:51.040 is learning why they abandoned so that's 0:35:50.320,0:35:52.800 sort of 0:35:51.040,0:35:54.560 part of an evolution of our product and 0:35:52.800,0:35:57.040 then something else that we haven't done 0:35:54.560,0:35:57.599 and i'm sure some of our competitors are 0:35:57.040,0:35:59.440 doing this 0:35:57.599,0:36:00.880 hopefully if not then i'm glad that we 0:35:59.440,0:36:03.599 are uh is a b 0:36:00.880,0:36:05.280 testing coupon codes so right now if you 0:36:03.599,0:36:07.040 set your value of 15 0:36:05.280,0:36:08.640 and your proceed your your recovery rate 0:36:07.040,0:36:10.800 at 15 discount is 0:36:08.640,0:36:12.480 20 recovery rate that's phenomenal but 0:36:10.800,0:36:14.240 what if you offered 10 0:36:12.480,0:36:16.160 off instead of 15 and the recovery rate 0:36:14.240,0:36:17.760 was still 20 well then the perceived 0:36:16.160,0:36:19.119 value the discount is the same you may 0:36:17.760,0:36:21.119 as well save that 50 0:36:19.119,0:36:22.560 discount margin and lower the percentage 0:36:21.119,0:36:24.800 of the discount down to 10. 0:36:22.560,0:36:26.000 uh we're adding that as a feature so 0:36:24.800,0:36:27.200 that you don't have to do all the 0:36:26.000,0:36:29.119 guesswork we're going to 0:36:27.200,0:36:31.040 make suggestions and recommendations for 0:36:29.119,0:36:33.599 you and then allow us to sort of like 0:36:31.040,0:36:35.520 automatically test a 50 50 weight and 0:36:33.599,0:36:36.400 that might grow into multi-variant 0:36:35.520,0:36:37.680 testing but 0:36:36.400,0:36:39.440 you don't have a lot of stores don't 0:36:37.680,0:36:40.800 have a lot of scale to say let's let's 0:36:39.440,0:36:41.839 test free shipping versus a dollar 0:36:40.800,0:36:43.520 amount versus 0:36:41.839,0:36:44.880 percentage right like some stores are 0:36:43.520,0:36:45.200 only getting a couple hundred a month 0:36:44.880,0:36:47.200 for 0:36:45.200,0:36:48.640 tens of thousands but with scale you 0:36:47.200,0:36:49.280 could also potentially multi-variant 0:36:48.640,0:36:50.880 test 0:36:49.280,0:36:52.720 discounts so we're thinking about a lot 0:36:50.880,0:36:54.800 of stuff just also within the scope 0:36:52.720,0:36:56.960 though just abandoning cart recovery 0:36:54.800,0:36:59.280 for the most part yeah yeah yeah i like 0:36:56.960,0:37:02.160 the i like the niche focus and then so 0:36:59.280,0:37:04.800 you guys charge um your pricing model is 0:37:02.160,0:37:07.040 like a commission on recovered carts 0:37:04.800,0:37:10.320 yeah so our our plan is like it's 0:37:07.040,0:37:11.280 anywhere from 49 to a 199 a month which 0:37:10.320,0:37:13.280 might be changing i think we're 0:37:11.280,0:37:16.320 consolidating to just one plan 0:37:13.280,0:37:17.040 at 99 a month plus 5 so if you're 0:37:16.320,0:37:18.160 listening to this 0:37:17.040,0:37:19.200 and you hear that that's the price 0:37:18.160,0:37:20.480 you're gonna get if you see on the 0:37:19.200,0:37:21.520 website and it's more 0:37:20.480,0:37:23.520 just tell us and we'll give you the 0:37:21.520,0:37:25.200 price that i just said uh but yeah it's 0:37:23.520,0:37:25.839 forty nine dollars plus ten percent 0:37:25.200,0:37:28.960 commission 0:37:25.839,0:37:30.800 or 199 plus five percent um but 0:37:28.960,0:37:32.640 the thought is that we will consolidate 0:37:30.800,0:37:33.359 with just one plan for ninety nine 0:37:32.640,0:37:34.880 dollars plus 0:37:33.359,0:37:37.359 five percent and then we don't charge 0:37:34.880,0:37:39.680 you text messages or any usage costs 0:37:37.359,0:37:41.440 um which in some scenarios is is 0:37:39.680,0:37:43.359 actually not beneficial to us 0:37:41.440,0:37:44.640 but of course we want to give a great 0:37:43.359,0:37:46.079 experience to our customers but so in a 0:37:44.640,0:37:46.560 scenario that you bought something from 0:37:46.079,0:37:48.240 me 0:37:46.560,0:37:49.680 from a live recover text right because 0:37:48.240,0:37:51.359 you forgot something in your cart you 0:37:49.680,0:37:52.800 had a question about the dog food if it 0:37:51.359,0:37:54.800 was grain free 0:37:52.800,0:37:56.320 and we told you that it was grain free 0:37:54.800,0:37:56.800 and your dog could eat it so you ordered 0:37:56.320,0:37:58.560 it 0:37:56.800,0:38:00.240 uh and then it's been two days and 0:37:58.560,0:38:01.520 you're anxiously awaiting your order and 0:38:00.240,0:38:02.079 you're like where the hell is my dog 0:38:01.520,0:38:03.680 food 0:38:02.079,0:38:05.280 you don't go to the support channel you 0:38:03.680,0:38:05.920 text back because that's where you 0:38:05.280,0:38:07.680 bought it from 0:38:05.920,0:38:09.440 so in that case our reps get routed 0:38:07.680,0:38:11.280 those texts and we've already recovered 0:38:09.440,0:38:13.520 sale it's in our best interest 0:38:11.280,0:38:15.200 to to basically put the fire out right 0:38:13.520,0:38:17.599 we want to resolve this customer's issue 0:38:15.200,0:38:19.040 we now have access to the thank you page 0:38:17.599,0:38:19.599 because we sent you the link to the 0:38:19.040,0:38:21.599 checkout 0:38:19.599,0:38:22.800 which then turns it order confirmation 0:38:21.599,0:38:24.640 page which means we can grab 0:38:22.800,0:38:26.240 the shipping number also our reps can 0:38:24.640,0:38:27.359 check what the shipping and processing 0:38:26.240,0:38:28.720 times are and we can say 0:38:27.359,0:38:30.880 hey kalyn i know you're excited to get 0:38:28.720,0:38:32.560 your dog food but it's only been 36 0:38:30.880,0:38:33.680 hours and per our shipping page 0:38:32.560,0:38:35.200 processing times are 0:38:33.680,0:38:37.520 one to two days shipping is three to 0:38:35.200,0:38:38.800 five days but granted you will be 0:38:37.520,0:38:39.760 you'll have a tracking number as soon as 0:38:38.800,0:38:40.720 it's issued and if you don't hear 0:38:39.760,0:38:42.160 anything by monday 0:38:40.720,0:38:44.240 text us back and we'll get you sorted 0:38:42.160,0:38:46.400 out so we do costs on some sort of 0:38:44.240,0:38:48.640 post-purchase support and 0:38:46.400,0:38:49.599 that that helps because they don't go to 0:38:48.640,0:38:51.680 you they come to us 0:38:49.599,0:38:53.440 and we might cross on all those texts 0:38:51.680,0:38:55.119 and we you know deflect that 0:38:53.440,0:38:56.800 sort of first line of support whenever 0:38:55.119,0:38:58.320 we are the one that recovered that 0:38:56.800,0:39:00.240 i mean there's a lot of value out there 0:38:58.320,0:39:01.440 that we don't really talk about much but 0:39:00.240,0:39:02.560 when you're a customer you probably 0:39:01.440,0:39:04.240 notice it 0:39:02.560,0:39:05.920 yeah that's that's really cool and it's 0:39:04.240,0:39:07.839 like your incentives 0:39:05.920,0:39:09.040 are aligned with the merchant because 0:39:07.839,0:39:11.119 you're charging 0:39:09.040,0:39:12.320 that commission base my my email product 0:39:11.119,0:39:14.320 was actually also like 0:39:12.320,0:39:16.800 commission based and it it just makes 0:39:14.320,0:39:19.040 for like such an easy 0:39:16.800,0:39:20.320 um sale but then like you're saying on 0:39:19.040,0:39:22.560 the other hand 0:39:20.320,0:39:23.760 it might like with this idea of the of 0:39:22.560,0:39:26.720 the non-discount 0:39:23.760,0:39:28.079 uh direction it might not make as much 0:39:26.720,0:39:29.920 sense right because if you're going to 0:39:28.079,0:39:31.839 invest time into something 0:39:29.920,0:39:33.359 you want to get a return as well as 0:39:31.839,0:39:35.040 getting the customer return 0:39:33.359,0:39:36.960 that's what we've been thinking is the 0:39:35.040,0:39:38.720 intent's not as high so 0:39:36.960,0:39:40.560 i mean we might not win them back right 0:39:38.720,0:39:42.240 but at the end if it turns out to still 0:39:40.560,0:39:43.520 be profitable and we can you know grow 0:39:42.240,0:39:44.320 our market share then we'll take the 0:39:43.520,0:39:46.400 loss because 0:39:44.320,0:39:48.320 they're probably offering discounts on 0:39:46.400,0:39:49.440 another segment of customers or we 0:39:48.320,0:39:50.079 wouldn't have had them as a customer 0:39:49.440,0:39:52.800 anyway 0:39:50.079,0:39:53.359 uh yeah so yeah the usage based pricing 0:39:52.800,0:39:55.440 i think 0:39:53.359,0:39:57.440 matters makes a lot of sense for you 0:39:55.440,0:39:57.680 know automated solutions but since we're 0:39:57.440,0:40:00.000 a 0:39:57.680,0:40:02.079 fully human powered what's what's called 0:40:00.000,0:40:04.400 peer-to-peer texting platform 0:40:02.079,0:40:06.880 uh is kind of the sort of the you know 0:40:04.400,0:40:10.319 the cost structure we've stuck with 0:40:06.880,0:40:12.480 that's a really unique model um i was um 0:40:10.319,0:40:14.160 it's funny i was actually thinking like 0:40:12.480,0:40:16.880 like i think ai 0:40:14.160,0:40:18.240 is like super over hyped almost all the 0:40:16.880,0:40:19.920 time 0:40:18.240,0:40:21.599 but as i was hearing you describe the 0:40:19.920,0:40:24.000 solution and how 0:40:21.599,0:40:24.880 like a lot of times you answer questions 0:40:24.000,0:40:27.200 it's related to 0:40:24.880,0:40:28.800 faqs that are provided and stuff like 0:40:27.200,0:40:30.720 that i was imagining 0:40:28.800,0:40:33.200 how you could build a pretty simple ai 0:40:30.720,0:40:34.079 that could like ingest the faqs for a 0:40:33.200,0:40:36.079 brand 0:40:34.079,0:40:38.160 it could have some templates around 0:40:36.079,0:40:41.599 things our reps have something called 0:40:38.160,0:40:43.119 intelligent replies so whenever whenever 0:40:41.599,0:40:45.440 someone says yes i want the discount 0:40:43.119,0:40:46.560 code our reps don't have to type out and 0:40:45.440,0:40:48.720 create the code 0:40:46.560,0:40:49.839 they hit send discount code and all of a 0:40:48.720,0:40:51.839 sudden oh 0:40:49.839,0:40:53.760 nice we populated a message created an 0:40:51.839,0:40:54.880 api called a shopify created a unique 0:40:53.760,0:40:57.040 discount code 0:40:54.880,0:40:58.160 made all this messaging with an emoji 0:40:57.040,0:40:59.119 and a thank you message and all i have 0:40:58.160,0:41:02.560 to do is press yes 0:40:59.119,0:41:04.480 so like one rep one rep can handle 0:41:02.560,0:41:07.520 hundreds if not a thousand conversations 0:41:04.480,0:41:09.760 per hour really that's wild 0:41:07.520,0:41:11.200 that's really cool that's awesome i love 0:41:09.760,0:41:13.040 that you pull your phone out with 0:41:11.200,0:41:13.520 ubereats or something and uber is on the 0:41:13.040,0:41:15.200 way 0:41:13.520,0:41:16.960 if you open up your compose to respond 0:41:15.200,0:41:19.839 it's already got three replies for you 0:41:16.960,0:41:20.720 i'm on my way be right there okay so our 0:41:19.839,0:41:22.240 reps 0:41:20.720,0:41:24.000 similarly have a have some similar 0:41:22.240,0:41:26.160 things that's cool 0:41:24.000,0:41:27.359 so like like taking a step back like do 0:41:26.160,0:41:29.200 you think that 0:41:27.359,0:41:31.280 people are getting a little fatigued 0:41:29.200,0:41:34.960 with sms just in general 0:41:31.280,0:41:36.960 like i think marketers like myself and 0:41:34.960,0:41:40.079 other people ruin everything good 0:41:36.960,0:41:41.760 i think i think that if you just if the 0:41:40.079,0:41:44.400 easy way is to look at email 0:41:41.760,0:41:45.760 copy and paste your strategy over to sms 0:41:44.400,0:41:48.079 prioritize sms 0:41:45.760,0:41:50.000 over email on your home page and say wow 0:41:48.079,0:41:51.920 look how many sms phone number lists 0:41:50.000,0:41:53.839 like look how big my list is growing 0:41:51.920,0:41:55.520 well okay how fast is your email list 0:41:53.839,0:41:56.240 decaying and growth if that's one 0:41:55.520,0:41:58.720 question 0:41:56.240,0:41:59.440 two what's the ltv and the duration of 0:41:58.720,0:42:01.599 subscription 0:41:59.440,0:42:03.440 for that customer on sms do they stay 0:42:01.599,0:42:05.280 for weeks do they stay for months 0:42:03.440,0:42:06.640 do they stay for a year i know i've been 0:42:05.280,0:42:07.920 subscribed for some websites 0:42:06.640,0:42:09.839 for 12 years and they've probably 0:42:07.920,0:42:11.920 emailed a thousand times or more 0:42:09.839,0:42:12.880 at least thousands of times and i 0:42:11.920,0:42:14.480 haven't churned 0:42:12.880,0:42:16.560 no brand is ever going to text me more 0:42:14.480,0:42:19.599 than 50 times before 0:42:16.560,0:42:20.560 after five so i think i think that we 0:42:19.599,0:42:22.319 haven't 0:42:20.560,0:42:24.240 and i want sms to grow please like come 0:42:22.319,0:42:26.480 to livercover.com and use our business 0:42:24.240,0:42:28.720 but at the same time don't don't just 0:42:26.480,0:42:30.800 focus on the shiny object like 0:42:28.720,0:42:32.000 sms is a piece of the puzzle and not one 0:42:30.800,0:42:32.720 piece of the puzzle is more important 0:42:32.000,0:42:34.079 than the rest 0:42:32.720,0:42:36.240 you have to have all of them to have a 0:42:34.079,0:42:37.200 complete puzzle and email's proven and 0:42:36.240,0:42:39.119 tried and true 0:42:37.200,0:42:40.240 certain channels are not going away so 0:42:39.119,0:42:40.960 take that for what it's worth but i 0:42:40.240,0:42:42.800 don't think 0:42:40.960,0:42:44.640 sms should be your number one focus 0:42:42.800,0:42:46.960 because most of the brands that i 0:42:44.640,0:42:48.640 you know and i say most as in two i'm 0:42:46.960,0:42:50.640 invested into two men's skin care brands 0:42:48.640,0:42:54.240 and both of them probably do about 25 0:42:50.640,0:42:56.560 of their revenue from email nice 0:42:54.240,0:42:58.000 sms is not even five percent right so 0:42:56.560,0:42:59.839 right right yeah it's 0:42:58.000,0:43:01.920 interesting man email just kind of just 0:42:59.839,0:43:04.560 keeps keeps chugging through the years 0:43:01.920,0:43:07.040 and it's like the the open rates and 0:43:04.560,0:43:07.760 stuff get lower and lower but like it 0:43:07.040,0:43:09.920 still 0:43:07.760,0:43:12.319 drives a decent amount of revenue for a 0:43:09.920,0:43:14.160 lot of people um you know what you're 0:43:12.319,0:43:16.000 existing over email right like 0:43:14.160,0:43:17.440 sms you're typically expecting your 0:43:16.000,0:43:18.160 friends to talk to you like a friend or 0:43:17.440,0:43:20.240 a person 0:43:18.160,0:43:23.040 not to have messages sent to you so i 0:43:20.240,0:43:25.040 think the future of sms is maybe more in 0:43:23.040,0:43:26.960 concierge services and maybe brand 0:43:25.040,0:43:28.880 messaging and things that aren't sales 0:43:26.960,0:43:30.720 focused and i say that as a tool that's 0:43:28.880,0:43:33.920 purely sales focused but 0:43:30.720,0:43:35.359 like i i like i like getting texts from 0:43:33.920,0:43:36.079 some brands when they're done right i 0:43:35.359,0:43:37.760 don't mind it 0:43:36.079,0:43:38.960 but i don't like getting fashion nova 0:43:37.760,0:43:39.599 every day reminding me that their genes 0:43:38.960,0:43:42.640 are 40 0:43:39.599,0:43:45.520 off i'm gonna unsubscribe right yeah 0:43:42.640,0:43:46.400 i think that's really interesting like 0:43:45.520,0:43:48.000 that's one of the things i think is 0:43:46.400,0:43:49.599 super interesting about your approach of 0:43:48.000,0:43:51.680 being like a human powered 0:43:49.599,0:43:54.000 deal right because there's all sorts of 0:43:51.680,0:43:55.760 sms automation and stuff like that and 0:43:54.000,0:43:57.040 and i i mean i get so many automated 0:43:55.760,0:43:58.880 ones 0:43:57.040,0:44:00.800 but like s there's something it's like 0:43:58.880,0:44:02.880 you said people have a tendency to copy 0:44:00.800,0:44:04.480 and paste their strategy from one 0:44:02.880,0:44:06.720 technology to another 0:44:04.480,0:44:08.240 like from email to sms and there are 0:44:06.720,0:44:10.240 things about sms that are just 0:44:08.240,0:44:12.240 fundamentally different in the way 0:44:10.240,0:44:12.560 people expect communication to happen 0:44:12.240,0:44:14.880 like 0:44:12.560,0:44:16.000 you don't want to see a link in sms 0:44:14.880,0:44:17.680 unless like 0:44:16.000,0:44:19.280 you've asked for something you know what 0:44:17.680,0:44:20.000 i mean like that's what i like about 0:44:19.280,0:44:21.839 your 0:44:20.000,0:44:23.440 initial message like there's no link you 0:44:21.839,0:44:25.359 know yeah never 0:44:23.440,0:44:27.040 uh you're right i mean like if you think 0:44:25.359,0:44:28.800 about it and also that kind of goes to 0:44:27.040,0:44:30.880 the point of like the behavior with 0:44:28.800,0:44:32.480 human versus automated i totally support 0:44:30.880,0:44:32.960 automated text and i and i think that 0:44:32.480,0:44:35.520 there's a 0:44:32.960,0:44:36.480 time and place for a 100 uh but like if 0:44:35.520,0:44:37.599 i asked you 0:44:36.480,0:44:39.520 hey caitlin do you want to go get a 0:44:37.599,0:44:40.640 drink hey caitlin this is dennis from 0:44:39.520,0:44:41.839 live recovery i saw you were checking 0:44:40.640,0:44:42.400 out my website you want to go get a 0:44:41.839,0:44:44.319 drink 0:44:42.400,0:44:46.400 okay let's pretend this was a normal 0:44:44.319,0:44:47.680 conversation yo what's up man i'm 0:44:46.400,0:44:48.560 thinking of getting happy hour do you 0:44:47.680,0:44:51.760 want to join 0:44:48.560,0:44:53.839 that's at 3 30. you respond at 333 0:44:51.760,0:44:56.000 sure that sounds great where at and what 0:44:53.839,0:44:57.359 time then i don't respond until the next 0:44:56.000,0:44:58.319 day because i was waiting on a human to 0:44:57.359,0:44:59.680 get to the response 0:44:58.319,0:45:01.280 hey sorry about that kayla and i was 0:44:59.680,0:45:03.440 looking for the answer yesterday it's 0:45:01.280,0:45:05.359 the next day now but how about you know 0:45:03.440,0:45:06.880 blah blah blah you're like i don't want 0:45:05.359,0:45:09.839 to drink i wanted to be like what 0:45:06.880,0:45:10.160 when you text me yeah so like yeah i'd 0:45:09.839,0:45:12.480 live 0:45:10.160,0:45:14.240 support i think text like if you're 0:45:12.480,0:45:15.680 talking to someone and it's about a sale 0:45:14.240,0:45:17.680 you better be able to support them in 0:45:15.680,0:45:18.319 real time or else i wouldn't waste my 0:45:17.680,0:45:19.599 time 0:45:18.319,0:45:21.520 right yeah i'm not saying that your 0:45:19.599,0:45:23.200 first message needs to be human 0:45:21.520,0:45:24.880 right ours is but like an attentive 0:45:23.200,0:45:27.280 postscript whoever 0:45:24.880,0:45:28.720 they they should have in my opinion 0:45:27.280,0:45:29.920 something like us to jump in when there 0:45:28.720,0:45:31.520 is a response and i know that they have 0:45:29.920,0:45:32.000 tools and integrations with gorgeous and 0:45:31.520,0:45:33.119 and 0:45:32.000,0:45:34.880 other help desk solutions that are 0:45:33.119,0:45:35.280 trying to solve for this and i love that 0:45:34.880,0:45:38.160 uh 0:45:35.280,0:45:39.520 i support all that i want more of that 0:45:38.160,0:45:41.680 yeah and you guys have like a three 0:45:39.520,0:45:43.280 minute response time something like that 0:45:41.680,0:45:45.359 yeah during from eight in the morning 0:45:43.280,0:45:46.880 until nine pm uh it shouldn't ever be 0:45:45.359,0:45:47.200 more than three minutes that you get a 0:45:46.880,0:45:50.079 wait 0:45:47.200,0:45:50.880 for a response from one of our reps nice 0:45:50.079,0:45:54.960 nice 0:45:50.880,0:45:58.560 what um like what brands do you think do 0:45:54.960,0:46:00.400 sms in terms of uh marketing but also in 0:45:58.560,0:46:00.960 terms of like community building in 0:46:00.400,0:46:04.160 general 0:46:00.960,0:46:06.319 engagement in general like uh 0:46:04.160,0:46:07.200 which brands like do you think do that 0:46:06.319,0:46:08.640 the best 0:46:07.200,0:46:10.880 and what are some of the things they do 0:46:08.640,0:46:13.440 that are that are interesting 0:46:10.880,0:46:14.079 so i have a hard time really thinking 0:46:13.440,0:46:16.000 that any 0:46:14.079,0:46:17.839 customer truly thinks that they're part 0:46:16.000,0:46:18.880 of a community because they get texts 0:46:17.839,0:46:20.560 from a brand 0:46:18.880,0:46:22.560 i don't think that i ever pull out my 0:46:20.560,0:46:24.720 phone oh my god this is the 0:46:22.560,0:46:26.720 coolest tech i've ever gone for my brand 0:46:24.720,0:46:30.480 i'm gonna go talk about it 0:46:26.720,0:46:31.599 i'm in the community i've never once 0:46:30.480,0:46:33.920 felt that way have i thought 0:46:31.599,0:46:35.599 that was a pretty good crafted text sure 0:46:33.920,0:46:37.920 like i can think of some examples 0:46:35.599,0:46:39.359 once one is florence by mills and this 0:46:37.920,0:46:40.079 is a mutual customer that uses live 0:46:39.359,0:46:41.920 recover 0:46:40.079,0:46:43.680 or or did use liver cover or something i 0:46:41.920,0:46:44.560 don't remember there it's a millie bobby 0:46:43.680,0:46:46.079 brown 0:46:44.560,0:46:47.760 makeup brand and they use a tentative as 0:46:46.079,0:46:49.040 well and this was an intended message 0:46:47.760,0:46:50.400 for all that's worth i'm not talking 0:46:49.040,0:46:51.040 about me i'm talking about another 0:46:50.400,0:46:53.119 solution 0:46:51.040,0:46:55.200 uh but they sent uh you know video 0:46:53.119,0:46:57.359 updates from the founder who's like a 16 0:46:55.200,0:46:59.200 or 17 year old celebrity actress 0:46:57.359,0:47:00.560 just talking about her using the product 0:46:59.200,0:47:03.040 putting on her face telling everybody 0:47:00.560,0:47:05.760 how thankful she is for their support 0:47:03.040,0:47:06.960 no call to action no link no go buy my 0:47:05.760,0:47:08.240 this buy my bat 0:47:06.960,0:47:10.000 and i'm like to me that stands out 0:47:08.240,0:47:13.440 because you just wasted like are not 0:47:10.000,0:47:14.400 wasted but spent maybe thousands if not 0:47:13.440,0:47:16.400 even in the 0:47:14.400,0:47:17.680 you know five ten thousand dollars to 0:47:16.400,0:47:18.800 send this message out to a 0:47:17.680,0:47:20.640 couple hundred thousand people even 0:47:18.800,0:47:22.240 maybe a million people right i'm sure 0:47:20.640,0:47:23.359 they organically now went to your brand 0:47:22.240,0:47:24.400 and thought wow i just got a thoughtful 0:47:23.359,0:47:26.240 message from the founder 0:47:24.400,0:47:28.079 i think that that's a good way to go 0:47:26.240,0:47:28.640 about it but do i think that brands are 0:47:28.079,0:47:31.599 like 0:47:28.640,0:47:32.960 hey text me and we'll give you this or 0:47:31.599,0:47:34.880 that it just kind of seems like 0:47:32.960,0:47:36.720 like novelty like we're just trying to 0:47:34.880,0:47:38.880 force someone to use sms just to say 0:47:36.720,0:47:41.440 we're using sms and there's no real 0:47:38.880,0:47:42.880 benefit for the customer right like to 0:47:41.440,0:47:44.800 my i don't think i'm a part of a 0:47:42.880,0:47:46.240 community because i read emails unless 0:47:44.800,0:47:47.520 i'm paying for a newsletter and even 0:47:46.240,0:47:48.960 then i'm a customer i'm not a part of 0:47:47.520,0:47:49.920 the community unless i go on twitter and 0:47:48.960,0:47:52.480 i talk about it 0:47:49.920,0:47:53.280 so i think i don't know do i think it's 0:47:52.480,0:47:55.200 funny like 0:47:53.280,0:47:56.880 brands that are cool enough to have a 0:47:55.200,0:47:58.800 sms community 0:47:56.880,0:48:01.280 i'm one of these people like i i'm i 0:47:58.800,0:48:02.720 like disable all my sms's unless unless 0:48:01.280,0:48:04.960 somebody's in my contacts and like 0:48:02.720,0:48:06.240 favorited like i just it's just 0:48:04.960,0:48:09.200 it's too much but it's funny because 0:48:06.240,0:48:09.520 like i'm like a garyvee fan and i'll go 0:48:09.200,0:48:11.520 on 0:48:09.520,0:48:13.280 in and out of like like looking at his 0:48:11.520,0:48:14.640 content i haven't seen it in a while but 0:48:13.280,0:48:16.800 like i joined his 0:48:14.640,0:48:18.480 text just to check it out for the 0:48:16.800,0:48:20.400 novelty but after like three of them i 0:48:18.480,0:48:20.800 was like yeah i just said i don't need 0:48:20.400,0:48:24.480 that 0:48:20.800,0:48:26.559 i don't need this right um yeah 0:48:24.480,0:48:27.839 yeah yeah yeah literally yeah obviously 0:48:26.559,0:48:30.480 he's pushing it 0:48:27.839,0:48:31.440 yeah um and it probably is successful 0:48:30.480,0:48:34.559 like but i'm just 0:48:31.440,0:48:37.839 i mean for me it it doesn't but like 0:48:34.559,0:48:38.480 it's email it's pretending to say sms is 0:48:37.839,0:48:39.920 not it's 0:48:38.480,0:48:41.359 it's sms it's not email but we're 0:48:39.920,0:48:43.760 treating it the exact same way but it's 0:48:41.359,0:48:45.839 packaged in sms so look how cool this is 0:48:43.760,0:48:47.280 that doesn't have to lead by action not 0:48:45.839,0:48:48.240 just by talking about it being different 0:48:47.280,0:48:50.319 yeah 0:48:48.240,0:48:52.000 have you ever thought about starting a 0:48:50.319,0:48:54.000 brand yourself because you're like a 0:48:52.000,0:48:56.400 pretty fashionable dude 0:48:54.000,0:48:57.920 um and obviously you're building a tech 0:48:56.400,0:48:58.880 solution but i don't know i just 0:48:57.920,0:49:01.520 occurred to me like 0:48:58.880,0:49:02.640 not a clothing brand per se i my first 0:49:01.520,0:49:05.520 company ever 0:49:02.640,0:49:06.000 was a t-shirt hoodie uh and glasses 0:49:05.520,0:49:08.480 brand 0:49:06.000,0:49:10.160 on myspace that's right uh out in 0:49:08.480,0:49:11.280 ecommerce i actually started out when 0:49:10.160,0:49:14.160 wordpress was 0:49:11.280,0:49:15.599 brand new and paypal had their first buy 0:49:14.160,0:49:16.480 button that's when i started in 0:49:15.599,0:49:18.079 e-commerce 0:49:16.480,0:49:19.599 dude that's you've been in the game like 0:49:18.079,0:49:22.559 you're only 31 but you've been in the 0:49:19.599,0:49:25.119 game like you know about irc 0:49:22.559,0:49:26.720 yeah yeah of course i mean but i've been 0:49:25.119,0:49:28.559 through a wordpress since the day it 0:49:26.720,0:49:30.160 launched i used to use scissors 0:49:28.559,0:49:32.559 phone calls whenever you could skype a 0:49:30.160,0:49:34.559 landline and do nasty [ __ ] 0:49:32.559,0:49:35.920 i mean yeah 31 but i've been on the 0:49:34.559,0:49:39.760 internet for more than half my life 0:49:35.920,0:49:42.319 probably 75. um right 0:49:39.760,0:49:43.359 but yeah i mean uh i got i just had a 0:49:42.319,0:49:44.559 brain fart so i forgot what we were 0:49:43.359,0:49:45.839 talking about yeah i don't know what uh 0:49:44.559,0:49:47.440 we were talking about oh yeah starting a 0:49:45.839,0:49:49.359 brand oh so you're so you did the 0:49:47.440,0:49:51.119 the shirt thing you have some so i 0:49:49.359,0:49:52.960 invested in in a men's skincare brand 0:49:51.119,0:49:55.200 called disco that's kind of like 0:49:52.960,0:49:56.800 uh lotion an exfoliator and a cleanser 0:49:55.200,0:49:57.680 and i invested in a men's makeup brand 0:49:56.800,0:50:00.559 called strix 0:49:57.680,0:50:00.960 i don't really but there it is yes they 0:50:00.559,0:50:02.720 have 0:50:00.960,0:50:04.480 five thousand stores the growing thing 0:50:02.720,0:50:06.880 right men's makeup it's happened like 0:50:04.480,0:50:08.319 i mean it's happening or a picture an 0:50:06.880,0:50:09.920 acne blemish and if you want to cover up 0:50:08.319,0:50:11.359 real quick for a headshot your linkedin 0:50:09.920,0:50:12.319 picture a company outing whatever it's 0:50:11.359,0:50:13.599 understandable i don't think there's 0:50:12.319,0:50:16.400 anything to be embarrassed about 0:50:13.599,0:50:17.520 um but uh for starting my own brand you 0:50:16.400,0:50:19.280 know i used to run 0:50:17.520,0:50:20.960 products on facebook and i wouldn't call 0:50:19.280,0:50:24.160 any of them brands like i 0:50:20.960,0:50:27.280 i shamelessly would buy them into any 0:50:24.160,0:50:27.599 type of would i would i mean even i have 0:50:27.280,0:50:30.559 10 0:50:27.599,0:50:32.400 000 wallets in my garage right now uh so 0:50:30.559,0:50:32.880 i mean i sell products online here and 0:50:32.400,0:50:34.800 there 0:50:32.880,0:50:36.480 right but for the most part i don't 0:50:34.800,0:50:37.920 start i hadn't started i never started 0:50:36.480,0:50:40.160 brands in the past i'd 0:50:37.920,0:50:41.359 pop up a store do a million in revenue 0:50:40.160,0:50:42.400 get some margins run a bunch of 0:50:41.359,0:50:44.720 arbitrage 0:50:42.400,0:50:46.240 yeah take it down uh which was dumb 0:50:44.720,0:50:47.119 because in the long term if i had kept 0:50:46.240,0:50:47.680 them they probably would have been worth 0:50:47.119,0:50:50.079 something 0:50:47.680,0:50:51.920 but moving forward like probably after 0:50:50.079,0:50:53.119 live recovery or even if we get the 0:50:51.920,0:50:54.480 team in place where i can sort of 0:50:53.119,0:50:57.119 delegate a little more i really think 0:50:54.480,0:51:01.440 i'm going to do a dtc tattoo 0:50:57.119,0:51:03.040 product that's a cool idea 0:51:01.440,0:51:04.880 yeah and i have both my legs tattooed 0:51:03.040,0:51:07.839 like from my ankles all the way up to my 0:51:04.880,0:51:09.040 waist and so yeah there's no product for 0:51:07.839,0:51:10.960 direct-to-consumer 0:51:09.040,0:51:12.160 tattoo you know tattoo owners if you 0:51:10.960,0:51:13.119 will or people who have tattoos so i 0:51:12.160,0:51:16.400 want to do a lotion 0:51:13.119,0:51:18.720 a numbing cream great idea 0:51:16.400,0:51:20.160 so was that like is that like 0:51:18.720,0:51:22.800 maintenance i don't know too much about 0:51:20.160,0:51:25.200 tattoos although i'm thinking i'm 39 0:51:22.800,0:51:27.200 for my 40th i might if i can get a 0:51:25.200,0:51:28.960 six-pack going i might go nuts and get 0:51:27.200,0:51:31.440 like a sleeve or something like that 0:51:28.960,0:51:32.640 so i'll have to oh i have to talk to you 0:51:31.440,0:51:34.400 about it but 0:51:32.640,0:51:36.319 um i want to maintain the color right 0:51:34.400,0:51:37.760 and so by using lotion 0:51:36.319,0:51:38.800 obviously there could be some special 0:51:37.760,0:51:40.240 formulation that makes it a little 0:51:38.800,0:51:41.839 better for ink and 0:51:40.240,0:51:43.280 longevity but for the most part 0:51:41.839,0:51:44.319 hydrating lotion there's not there's 0:51:43.280,0:51:45.280 already a lot of companies out there 0:51:44.319,0:51:46.800 that have done that well 0:51:45.280,0:51:48.480 so it's like the formulation needs to be 0:51:46.800,0:51:49.280 spent a ton of money on just great 0:51:48.480,0:51:50.640 branding 0:51:49.280,0:51:52.079 a founder and people who understand 0:51:50.640,0:51:53.040 tattoo culture and then just the 0:51:52.079,0:51:55.359 distribution that's 0:51:53.040,0:51:57.359 all this is a great idea might be it's 0:51:55.359,0:51:59.359 nice 0:51:57.359,0:52:00.400 it's so funny man because like i live in 0:51:59.359,0:52:02.480 like a suburban 0:52:00.400,0:52:04.880 like community with kids and i'll go to 0:52:02.480,0:52:06.319 the pool and like half of the parents 0:52:04.880,0:52:08.720 have tattoos 0:52:06.319,0:52:10.880 right 10 years ago yeah kind of like uh 0:52:08.720,0:52:12.319 that person might not be trustworthy in 0:52:10.880,0:52:15.359 some weird way now it's like oh that's 0:52:12.319,0:52:15.359 yeah paper dennis 0:52:16.079,0:52:19.440 yes that's correct i live here i also 0:52:17.839,0:52:22.559 have tattoos 0:52:19.440,0:52:25.920 yeah exactly exactly 0:52:22.559,0:52:27.680 but anyway yeah yeah yeah yeah austin 0:52:25.920,0:52:28.960 yeah welcome to austin how do you like 0:52:27.680,0:52:29.839 your neighborhood man you're in a pretty 0:52:28.960,0:52:32.160 cool spot 0:52:29.839,0:52:33.599 golden creek is lovely man i see so many 0:52:32.160,0:52:35.200 people walking around all day 0:52:33.599,0:52:36.800 my neighbor's a venture capitalist the 0:52:35.200,0:52:38.079 other one works at salesforce 0:52:36.800,0:52:40.160 you know the other person's been there 0:52:38.079,0:52:42.160 for 40 years and drinks uh 0:52:40.160,0:52:43.520 two six packs a day of lone star and 0:52:42.160,0:52:46.000 just walks around all day 0:52:43.520,0:52:46.800 i'm like geez the rock draft is amazing 0:52:46.000,0:52:49.119 and the people 0:52:46.800,0:52:51.040 are cool it's it's new character with 0:52:49.119,0:52:52.640 also kind of you know cherishing the old 0:52:51.040,0:52:53.920 and hopefully not flipping 0:52:52.640,0:52:55.200 and gentrifying the whole neighborhood 0:52:53.920,0:52:55.680 because there's a lot of characters like 0:52:55.200,0:52:57.119 og 0:52:55.680,0:53:00.559 and so right yeah i think i think 0:52:57.119,0:53:02.480 voldemort is awesome 0:53:00.559,0:53:04.319 i'm up north yeah i'm up in georgetown 0:53:02.480,0:53:07.040 up in the up in the sticks but i 0:53:04.319,0:53:08.079 but uh but we like it out here yeah yeah 0:53:07.040,0:53:10.640 dear ikea 0:53:08.079,0:53:13.280 dude at p like people love like you talk 0:53:10.640,0:53:13.839 about brands like people love ikea 0:53:13.280,0:53:15.920 people 0:53:13.839,0:53:17.440 yeah swedish and he also know that they 0:53:15.920,0:53:19.440 actually paid no taxes because the 0:53:17.440,0:53:21.760 founder was a master finesser 0:53:19.440,0:53:24.160 and really yeah it's set up as a charity 0:53:21.760,0:53:25.119 a design charity and the retail stores 0:53:24.160,0:53:27.200 lease the 0:53:25.119,0:53:28.720 equipment from the charity and they 0:53:27.200,0:53:30.800 donate the money to the charity 0:53:28.720,0:53:32.319 they never pay tax so if anybody is 0:53:30.800,0:53:33.760 talking about hating jeff bezos and 0:53:32.319,0:53:36.400 amazon go look at ikea 0:53:33.760,0:53:38.240 they paid that's wild no tax for the 0:53:36.400,0:53:40.400 last 20 30 years or something crazy 0:53:38.240,0:53:41.520 but the founder but do they do they 0:53:40.400,0:53:43.119 actually donate 0:53:41.520,0:53:44.480 a lot of like oh that's just the 0:53:43.119,0:53:46.559 structure of their company they're a 0:53:44.480,0:53:48.160 design company that leases their designs 0:53:46.559,0:53:49.760 to a retail store and the retail store 0:53:48.160,0:53:52.160 pays them a 99 0:53:49.760,0:53:53.839 profit to lease the designs and pays one 0:53:52.160,0:53:54.720 percent on that revenue as revenue from 0:53:53.839,0:53:57.440 ikea 0:53:54.720,0:53:58.400 it's crazy look up ikea founder four 0:53:57.440,0:54:00.480 billion dollar 0:53:58.400,0:54:01.839 scheme or something it's insane it's 0:54:00.480,0:54:04.160 such a tax scheme 0:54:01.839,0:54:05.280 dude um not an american company right 0:54:04.160,0:54:05.760 they're based they're based in sweden 0:54:05.280,0:54:07.359 right 0:54:05.760,0:54:11.359 died a couple years ago but yeah that 0:54:07.359,0:54:14.880 guy was legendary for sure 0:54:11.359,0:54:17.760 that's bonkers man anyway 0:54:14.880,0:54:18.400 well good to talk to a local keep austin 0:54:17.760,0:54:21.119 weird 0:54:18.400,0:54:22.640 austinite yeah man yeah it's a lot of 0:54:21.119,0:54:24.000 fun dude i appreciate it man where's the 0:54:22.640,0:54:26.640 uh where's the best place for 0:54:24.000,0:54:27.920 people to find you online unfortunately 0:54:26.640,0:54:29.040 if you want to see me rant on twitter 0:54:27.920,0:54:29.920 that's probably the place i spend the 0:54:29.040,0:54:31.520 most time and 0:54:29.920,0:54:32.960 things i regret saying things so 0:54:31.520,0:54:34.000 probably the most unfiltered and best 0:54:32.960,0:54:37.040 place and then 0:54:34.000,0:54:39.040 uh yeah at dennishegstad on twitter if 0:54:37.040,0:54:41.040 you can't spell it i'm sorry 0:54:39.040,0:54:42.400 then liverecover.com is the business if 0:54:41.040,0:54:42.960 you have an e-commerce business we'd 0:54:42.400,0:54:49.440 love to 0:54:42.960,0:54:49.440 give you 500 and free recovered sales