0:00:00.080,0:00:03.520
i dm'd him on twitter did you yeah he

0:00:02.879,0:00:05.680
followed him

0:00:03.520,0:00:06.720
he's like your app sounds sick let's go

0:00:05.680,0:00:09.840
and i'm like dude that's

0:00:06.720,0:00:11.360
awesome he signed up we recovered over a

0:00:09.840,0:00:12.799
million dollars for him in like two

0:00:11.360,0:00:14.240
months or three months

0:00:12.799,0:00:15.200
and then i found out that the whole time

0:00:14.240,0:00:16.400
i didn't know this while we were working

0:00:15.200,0:00:31.840
with him my friend was running his

0:00:16.400,0:00:31.840
facebook ads

0:00:33.040,0:00:38.640
dennis how you doing sir doing beautiful

0:00:36.880,0:00:40.320
i'm local too in austin texas so it

0:00:38.640,0:00:40.960
feels good to be close even though we're

0:00:40.320,0:00:43.040
on

0:00:40.960,0:00:44.000
video and on a podcast but doing great

0:00:43.040,0:00:45.760
man how are you yeah man

0:00:44.000,0:00:47.120
i'm doing okay we got to go hiking or

0:00:45.760,0:00:47.760
something i've been doing a bunch of

0:00:47.120,0:00:50.960
hiking

0:00:47.760,0:00:52.640
lately so uh we got to get out

0:00:50.960,0:00:55.199
activities let's do it let's do it the

0:00:52.640,0:00:56.719
weather's still good dude i was i was uh

0:00:55.199,0:00:58.239
i was checking out your instagram a

0:00:56.719,0:00:59.600
little bit last night i think you're the

0:00:58.239,0:01:02.160
coolest guy

0:00:59.600,0:01:02.719
in like tech austin like across the

0:01:02.160,0:01:05.280
boards

0:01:02.719,0:01:05.840
you're just like what's that cool we're

0:01:05.280,0:01:08.240
like

0:01:05.840,0:01:09.840
basically a rock star for all intents

0:01:08.240,0:01:12.640
and purposes

0:01:09.840,0:01:15.680
oh that's yeah i wish that was true i'm

0:01:12.640,0:01:18.320
playing a sims character it's okay

0:01:15.680,0:01:19.280
so um got the slack notifications

0:01:18.320,0:01:23.040
popping

0:01:19.280,0:01:24.560
um so how like it's obviously a crazy

0:01:23.040,0:01:26.479
time right now with kovid and the

0:01:24.560,0:01:27.840
elections and everything

0:01:26.479,0:01:31.040
what do you what are you doing to kind

0:01:27.840,0:01:34.079
of stay sane in the midst of it all

0:01:31.040,0:01:35.200
um i was fortunate enough that i bought

0:01:34.079,0:01:38.439
a house during

0:01:35.200,0:01:41.439
covid so i was living in a studio condo

0:01:38.439,0:01:42.479
540 square feet with all of my amenities

0:01:41.439,0:01:44.399
locked down

0:01:42.479,0:01:45.920
granted the last 10 years of my life

0:01:44.399,0:01:47.040
i've worked at home so this is nothing

0:01:45.920,0:01:49.439
new to me but

0:01:47.040,0:01:50.159
not having access to go outside uh

0:01:49.439,0:01:52.320
upgrading

0:01:50.159,0:01:54.320
you know into a house where my own yard

0:01:52.320,0:01:56.079
i can let my dog out i can go breathe i

0:01:54.320,0:01:58.240
don't have to ask for permission

0:01:56.079,0:02:00.159
obviously i'm safe but you know and

0:01:58.240,0:02:01.920
having the responsibility of that kind

0:02:00.159,0:02:03.040
of stuff has really helped me stay sane

0:02:01.920,0:02:04.399
just because

0:02:03.040,0:02:06.640
those are the things i like doing i like

0:02:04.399,0:02:08.160
skateboarding i like running i like

0:02:06.640,0:02:10.080
meeting people unfortunately that's kind

0:02:08.160,0:02:12.000
of on pause but yeah

0:02:10.080,0:02:13.680
for the most part you know just working

0:02:12.000,0:02:15.280
and staying focused and being thankful

0:02:13.680,0:02:15.599
no one in my family has gotten super

0:02:15.280,0:02:18.319
sick

0:02:15.599,0:02:18.720
my mom did have coke but aside from that

0:02:18.319,0:02:20.000
you know

0:02:18.720,0:02:22.000
just kind of trying to focus on my

0:02:20.000,0:02:25.440
routine and not ignore what's going

0:02:22.000,0:02:26.640
on but not not fall down the the rabbit

0:02:25.440,0:02:29.280
hole and everything

0:02:26.640,0:02:30.560
it's gonna happen anyway yeah did uh so

0:02:29.280,0:02:33.040
did your mom get better

0:02:30.560,0:02:34.800
pretty quickly or yeah she thought she

0:02:33.040,0:02:36.560
had pneumonia

0:02:34.800,0:02:38.160
and went to the hospital the hospital

0:02:36.560,0:02:38.879
for a night and then the next day she

0:02:38.160,0:02:41.200
went home

0:02:38.879,0:02:42.239
we got tested and covered this was like

0:02:41.200,0:02:44.720
late february

0:02:42.239,0:02:45.360
okay uh so it was really early uh but

0:02:44.720,0:02:46.959
after that

0:02:45.360,0:02:48.720
everything's been fairly normal that's

0:02:46.959,0:02:49.040
awesome that's awesome yeah it's like

0:02:48.720,0:02:51.599
it's

0:02:49.040,0:02:54.000
it's a i'm pretty routine oriented too

0:02:51.599,0:02:59.120
and you know stick to the routine

0:02:54.000,0:03:01.120
gym work twitter other stuff

0:02:59.120,0:03:02.959
that's life that's life what's your

0:03:01.120,0:03:04.480
twitter panning and laundry in there

0:03:02.959,0:03:07.760
we're a full-on

0:03:04.480,0:03:10.879
hey you're good to go laundry twitter

0:03:07.760,0:03:13.280
repeat right what is uh what does your

0:03:10.879,0:03:15.920
routine look like

0:03:13.280,0:03:17.200
um i wake up early like i'm a morning

0:03:15.920,0:03:18.480
person i know some people like how can

0:03:17.200,0:03:19.040
you get up early i'm like how can you

0:03:18.480,0:03:20.480
not

0:03:19.040,0:03:22.159
it's the same feeling that somebody's

0:03:20.480,0:03:23.280
always been a morning person yeah and

0:03:22.159,0:03:25.200
most developers

0:03:23.280,0:03:26.319
are not and i've always been it's like a

0:03:25.200,0:03:28.400
weird thing you know

0:03:26.319,0:03:30.080
those rock stars are not morning people

0:03:28.400,0:03:31.840
and you no they're in the studio

0:03:30.080,0:03:33.680
pm until six in the morning and i used

0:03:31.840,0:03:35.040
to do that when i was living in l.a

0:03:33.680,0:03:36.400
going to studio sessions and just

0:03:35.040,0:03:36.879
working and hanging out there but i'm

0:03:36.400,0:03:39.760
like

0:03:36.879,0:03:41.360
i prefer the same thing but like kind of

0:03:39.760,0:03:42.480
living during the regular hours of the

0:03:41.360,0:03:44.720
day right like if

0:03:42.480,0:03:46.400
if if only you could stay up 24 hours in

0:03:44.720,0:03:47.120
banks and grocery stores and things were

0:03:46.400,0:03:50.000
open at 3

0:03:47.120,0:03:50.239
4 in the morning sure but i wake up at 6

0:03:50.000,0:03:52.879
00

0:03:50.239,0:03:54.799
6 30 i try to get my run in before i can

0:03:52.879,0:03:57.599
even think about not doing it

0:03:54.799,0:03:58.640
um hopefully that's you know before 8.

0:03:57.599,0:04:00.640
then i'll get coffee

0:03:58.640,0:04:02.720
i'll sit down and i'll eat eat breakfast

0:04:00.640,0:04:04.720
with my dog make him food and then

0:04:02.720,0:04:06.879
then i start work i don't get on the

0:04:04.720,0:04:08.959
computer until i've done those things

0:04:06.879,0:04:11.200
and granted it's not a lot but i i take

0:04:08.959,0:04:14.000
care of myself i shower i feed myself

0:04:11.200,0:04:15.439
i take care of my basic duties uh and

0:04:14.000,0:04:17.759
then i get on with my day

0:04:15.439,0:04:18.880
um aside from that it's pretty much live

0:04:17.759,0:04:20.479
recover from

0:04:18.880,0:04:22.079
i think my calendars are open from nine

0:04:20.479,0:04:24.800
in the morning until six p.m so

0:04:22.079,0:04:26.000
some days i have eight demos some days i

0:04:24.800,0:04:27.440
have zero

0:04:26.000,0:04:29.280
and that's because we're a small team

0:04:27.440,0:04:30.479
and we don't have a full sales team

0:04:29.280,0:04:33.360
we're only a full-time

0:04:30.479,0:04:34.320
team of 11 people then eight of them are

0:04:33.360,0:04:36.080
texting agents

0:04:34.320,0:04:37.680
right so really it's three core team

0:04:36.080,0:04:39.919
members so we all wear

0:04:37.680,0:04:41.199
a few hats but yeah then after i'd say

0:04:39.919,0:04:42.080
like seven or eight unless there's an

0:04:41.199,0:04:43.680
emergency or something

0:04:42.080,0:04:45.680
i'm probably not working anymore and i

0:04:43.680,0:04:48.160
might just be on twitter

0:04:45.680,0:04:49.680
or or reading or something along those

0:04:48.160,0:04:51.120
lines but yeah i go to bed early i never

0:04:49.680,0:04:53.759
usually awake past

0:04:51.120,0:04:55.040
10 30 or 11 during the week unless i'm

0:04:53.759,0:04:56.080
going out or something i'm pretty

0:04:55.040,0:04:58.800
disciplined about that

0:04:56.080,0:05:00.880
nice dude i've been i try to do more

0:04:58.800,0:05:02.800
reading but i just i just can't like i

0:05:00.880,0:05:05.520
can't i try to be like a book person but

0:05:02.800,0:05:07.759
i listen to a lot of podcasts and i

0:05:05.520,0:05:09.440
i you can learn a lot or audio but i

0:05:07.759,0:05:11.360
can't even really do audio books it's

0:05:09.440,0:05:13.840
just it's got to be podcasts

0:05:11.360,0:05:15.680
but i i wish that's one thing i want to

0:05:13.840,0:05:18.080
get into my routine

0:05:15.680,0:05:20.479
is the reading part you know i think

0:05:18.080,0:05:22.479
reading for me it's hard too like i like

0:05:20.479,0:05:23.759
to learn but i don't like reading

0:05:22.479,0:05:24.000
because i'm like oh i could be doing so

0:05:23.759,0:05:26.000
many

0:05:24.000,0:05:27.759
other things at once but when you're

0:05:26.000,0:05:29.280
listening to a podcast and maybe not

0:05:27.759,0:05:30.400
this podcast because it's so great

0:05:29.280,0:05:32.720
but if you're listening to another

0:05:30.400,0:05:35.039
podcast or an audio book you're usually

0:05:32.720,0:05:37.759
doing something else at the same time

0:05:35.039,0:05:38.639
so i'm on a run i'm i'm working out

0:05:37.759,0:05:40.240
right doing this and

0:05:38.639,0:05:42.000
that it's almost like you're passively

0:05:40.240,0:05:43.039
trying to learn which can help and will

0:05:42.000,0:05:44.960
work probably

0:05:43.039,0:05:46.080
a little bit over time with repetition

0:05:44.960,0:05:47.919
but when you're reading

0:05:46.080,0:05:49.680
we don't do anything else but sit and

0:05:47.919,0:05:51.199
read you're holding the book with your

0:05:49.680,0:05:52.560
hands you're turning the pages

0:05:51.199,0:05:54.880
maybe taking notes like you're really

0:05:52.560,0:05:56.240
involved nothing else is in your face so

0:05:54.880,0:05:58.160
yeah when you do that and you might need

0:05:56.240,0:05:59.520
to read a book twice or three times to

0:05:58.160,0:06:00.560
get it just like if you watch a movie

0:05:59.520,0:06:01.919
three times you

0:06:00.560,0:06:03.919
focus on different parts it's no

0:06:01.919,0:06:05.680
different right so yeah i think

0:06:03.919,0:06:07.039
i'm not the best reader typically and

0:06:05.680,0:06:08.160
this has been taken away from me and i'm

0:06:07.039,0:06:10.000
not complaining this is a very

0:06:08.160,0:06:11.600
privileged thing to complain about but i

0:06:10.000,0:06:13.520
love reading on airplanes

0:06:11.600,0:06:15.360
because i have nothing else to do right

0:06:13.520,0:06:16.080
i love to read and work on airplanes

0:06:15.360,0:06:17.600
because it's like

0:06:16.080,0:06:18.880
of course like wi-fi is limited but

0:06:17.600,0:06:20.319
reading on planes for me is like the

0:06:18.880,0:06:22.960
most enjoyable thing

0:06:20.319,0:06:24.800
um anyway but i was i was checking out

0:06:22.960,0:06:25.360
your instagram you're like on private

0:06:24.800,0:06:27.759
jets

0:06:25.360,0:06:29.600
all over the place like what that's

0:06:27.759,0:06:32.560
awesome dude like

0:06:29.600,0:06:34.240
a few times that's cool that's cool

0:06:32.560,0:06:36.240
norway but my

0:06:34.240,0:06:37.360
some i have a family member who is very

0:06:36.240,0:06:38.639
generous and and

0:06:37.360,0:06:40.880
only travels private so i get the

0:06:38.639,0:06:42.319
benefit of uh you know tagging along if

0:06:40.880,0:06:44.880
you're that's awesome

0:06:42.319,0:06:46.400
cool yeah yeah i saw your um i saw your

0:06:44.880,0:06:49.199
tweet about being the first

0:06:46.400,0:06:50.400
uh of your family uh born in america or

0:06:49.199,0:06:52.000
something like that or

0:06:50.400,0:06:54.080
american and i just assume you're an

0:06:52.000,0:06:55.520
american dude but um

0:06:54.080,0:06:59.599
but that's cool so you're from so you're

0:06:55.520,0:07:02.080
from norway yeah yes not genocide

0:06:59.599,0:07:02.080
all right

0:07:05.120,0:07:10.560
sounded like a good accent as far as i

0:07:06.800,0:07:10.560
could tell you know there you go yeah

0:07:11.520,0:07:16.880
so i so i read that fast company uh

0:07:15.440,0:07:19.280
profile of you

0:07:16.880,0:07:20.080
and um you've had a pretty interesting

0:07:19.280,0:07:22.639
life and

0:07:20.080,0:07:23.120
and career i i think you're the coolest

0:07:22.639,0:07:26.160
guy

0:07:23.120,0:07:26.800
in the austin tech scene um and so you

0:07:26.160,0:07:28.880
were like

0:07:26.800,0:07:30.880
you were like a professional gamer at

0:07:28.880,0:07:33.199
age 15 or something like that

0:07:30.880,0:07:34.639
i was yeah back then it wasn't really

0:07:33.199,0:07:36.240
professional but we were spawn we were

0:07:34.639,0:07:36.880
the first gaming team sponsored by

0:07:36.240,0:07:40.720
newegg

0:07:36.880,0:07:42.479
in 2004. uh we were also we ran a gaming

0:07:40.720,0:07:44.000
server provider a gsv

0:07:42.479,0:07:45.680
kind of like an isp for your internet is

0:07:44.000,0:07:47.199
an internet service provider gaming

0:07:45.680,0:07:48.639
server providers that provide

0:07:47.199,0:07:50.319
servers to host your games are called

0:07:48.639,0:07:53.520
gsps okay so we built

0:07:50.319,0:07:56.160
esp one of the founders of our clan

0:07:53.520,0:07:57.759
which was 17 doing a million a month in

0:07:56.160,0:07:58.720
revenue we were all employees of this

0:07:57.759,0:08:00.720
gsp

0:07:58.720,0:08:02.080
working over irc but we were sponsored

0:08:00.720,0:08:04.160
by the team so we looked cool

0:08:02.080,0:08:05.520
and we were really [ __ ] good yeah we

0:08:04.160,0:08:07.680
played money we were in

0:08:05.520,0:08:09.440
something called cal premier and also

0:08:07.680,0:08:11.599
another league called cal invite

0:08:09.440,0:08:13.440
and now this has grown into this massive

0:08:11.599,0:08:14.800
business but all of us kind of got out

0:08:13.440,0:08:16.560
when we started getting girlfriends we

0:08:14.800,0:08:18.400
were 18. and then right

0:08:16.560,0:08:19.599
i kind of wish i had still played but at

0:08:18.400,0:08:21.840
the same time i'm much

0:08:19.599,0:08:23.360
i'm happier that i got into software and

0:08:21.840,0:08:24.879
marketing because

0:08:23.360,0:08:26.720
counter-strike is what took me there

0:08:24.879,0:08:27.199
right i kind of owe all of it to playing

0:08:26.720,0:08:29.520
games

0:08:27.199,0:08:30.879
but i also played quake 3 uh before that

0:08:29.520,0:08:32.479
but i wasn't competitive i was only

0:08:30.879,0:08:34.399
competitive

0:08:32.479,0:08:35.760
dude i think are you a fan of naval

0:08:34.399,0:08:38.959
ravicon at all

0:08:35.760,0:08:41.120
he's uh on twitter at naval he's like

0:08:38.959,0:08:42.560
the yeah i mean phil rogan was cool i've

0:08:41.120,0:08:43.599
followed him for so many years he's a

0:08:42.560,0:08:47.200
very wise

0:08:43.599,0:08:49.120
man yeah he's he's amazing i think he

0:08:47.200,0:08:49.920
said something recently about games he

0:08:49.120,0:08:52.080
said

0:08:49.920,0:08:53.760
uh and he was v he came out he was like

0:08:52.080,0:08:55.360
games are bad which obviously is a

0:08:53.760,0:08:57.519
controversial thing a lot of people

0:08:55.360,0:08:59.839
it's a career but he said something that

0:08:57.519,0:09:01.680
stuck with me he was like

0:08:59.839,0:09:03.519
life is a game right like what you're

0:09:01.680,0:09:06.560
doing in marketing is to get like

0:09:03.519,0:09:07.600
it's all a game like why not play games

0:09:06.560,0:09:09.519
where

0:09:07.600,0:09:11.440
you're actually getting real world

0:09:09.519,0:09:13.279
results

0:09:11.440,0:09:14.959
and time invested is leveling up i mean

0:09:13.279,0:09:16.720
you can look at it very well

0:09:14.959,0:09:18.080
i've looked at it that way too before i

0:09:16.720,0:09:20.160
knew you but i agree

0:09:18.080,0:09:21.760
i mean yeah do i spend time playing a

0:09:20.160,0:09:23.279
game like a video game where if i'm not

0:09:21.760,0:09:25.040
a competitive or

0:09:23.279,0:09:26.399
gaming player in the year of 2020 where

0:09:25.040,0:09:27.920
i can make tens of millions of dollars

0:09:26.399,0:09:29.760
being a youtube influencer

0:09:27.920,0:09:30.959
sure that that sounds great i would love

0:09:29.760,0:09:34.000
to do that if that was my

0:09:30.959,0:09:35.360
path now once that game turns off if

0:09:34.000,0:09:37.120
you're not a pro gamer

0:09:35.360,0:09:38.720
like what are you playing for right if

0:09:37.120,0:09:40.399
you invent yourself you're playing the

0:09:38.720,0:09:42.160
game of life right at least

0:09:40.399,0:09:43.680
everything you do like has compound

0:09:42.160,0:09:45.760
interest and you're accumulating skill

0:09:43.680,0:09:46.880
and hopefully some money and eventually

0:09:45.760,0:09:49.200
some assets and then

0:09:46.880,0:09:50.000
eventually wealth which maybe correlates

0:09:49.200,0:09:51.680
your happiness a little

0:09:50.000,0:09:53.760
bit because who doesn't want some more

0:09:51.680,0:09:55.519
money as long as it's not the only thing

0:09:53.760,0:09:56.560
yeah uh yeah i think that's a i think

0:09:55.519,0:09:57.839
that's a great way of looking at it

0:09:56.560,0:09:59.760
that's why i play games

0:09:57.839,0:10:01.760
yeah yeah yeah no yeah when i saw that

0:09:59.760,0:10:02.079
in the profile it made me think of of

0:10:01.760,0:10:04.399
like

0:10:02.079,0:10:05.680
what he said about it and it's like

0:10:04.399,0:10:07.440
everybody's playing

0:10:05.680,0:10:08.800
games at like different levels but it's

0:10:07.440,0:10:10.399
kind of about where are you

0:10:08.800,0:10:12.160
putting your time and stuff like that

0:10:10.399,0:10:13.200
yeah i agree with that and i thought it

0:10:12.160,0:10:13.839
was interesting that you were saying

0:10:13.200,0:10:15.760
that it was

0:10:13.839,0:10:17.519
wild that you got out of the influencer

0:10:15.760,0:10:19.680
mark so you had a whole

0:10:17.519,0:10:20.640
influencer marketing platform that you

0:10:19.680,0:10:23.440
built

0:10:20.640,0:10:24.399
and that you ran in like 2014 something

0:10:23.440,0:10:27.200
like that

0:10:24.399,0:10:28.240
yeah 2013 until 2016. it was called

0:10:27.200,0:10:31.519
exposely

0:10:28.240,0:10:33.519
uh we were we launched right

0:10:31.519,0:10:34.959
really early i mean i i used to have 10

0:10:33.519,0:10:36.720
million followers on twitter though

0:10:34.959,0:10:39.040
across all these meme accounts so i had

0:10:36.720,0:10:40.720
about 14 or 15 accounts they all had

0:10:39.040,0:10:42.720
anywhere from 600k to a million

0:10:40.720,0:10:43.839
followers different themes like travel

0:10:42.720,0:10:46.560
and cars and

0:10:43.839,0:10:47.519
food and cute girls and architecture

0:10:46.560,0:10:50.320
whatever their

0:10:47.519,0:10:52.399
random tweets just are sad you know

0:10:50.320,0:10:54.160
self-deprecating tweets

0:10:52.399,0:10:55.440
and those scale right when you post

0:10:54.160,0:10:57.279
links on those

0:10:55.440,0:10:58.640
ten times a day or six times a day

0:10:57.279,0:10:59.200
across those many followers you can

0:10:58.640,0:11:00.800
drive

0:10:59.200,0:11:02.720
hundreds of thousands of unique clicks a

0:11:00.800,0:11:04.560
day yeah so i used that to build a

0:11:02.720,0:11:05.839
platform for myself and then i realized

0:11:04.560,0:11:06.800
well i know all these other people on

0:11:05.839,0:11:10.000
twitter who do this for

0:11:06.800,0:11:11.600
for for profit basically uh and we

0:11:10.000,0:11:13.600
yeah it turned into a you know we did

0:11:11.600,0:11:16.320
multiple millions in our first year and

0:11:13.600,0:11:18.320
it became a big business but as 2015

0:11:16.320,0:11:20.240
2016 rolled around it was like

0:11:18.320,0:11:22.399
it kind of felt like how sms marketing

0:11:20.240,0:11:24.480
felt for influencer in 2016. it's like

0:11:22.399,0:11:26.160
oh you're doing cbd or sms

0:11:24.480,0:11:27.519
oh you're doing influencer marketing and

0:11:26.160,0:11:28.880
every call i had

0:11:27.519,0:11:30.240
hey how are you different than eight

0:11:28.880,0:11:31.760
other companies and i'm like well those

0:11:30.240,0:11:33.839
are just wordpress sites with an

0:11:31.760,0:11:34.800
agency doing a service business we have

0:11:33.839,0:11:37.040
a programmatic

0:11:34.800,0:11:38.560
performance based advertising platform

0:11:37.040,0:11:39.279
you don't have to talk to me to make a

0:11:38.560,0:11:40.800
campaign

0:11:39.279,0:11:42.560
you can just upload your type of

0:11:40.800,0:11:44.800
campaign upload a budget plug in your

0:11:42.560,0:11:47.440
pixel add in utm parameters the

0:11:44.800,0:11:49.040
instructions and we have 20 000

0:11:47.440,0:11:51.200
influencers who will do this on a

0:11:49.040,0:11:52.800
performance basis that you've set

0:11:51.200,0:11:54.399
right and so it was very different than

0:11:52.800,0:11:55.600
what everyone else was doing minus maybe

0:11:54.399,0:11:58.160
one or two people

0:11:55.600,0:11:59.600
uh another person who did it was called

0:11:58.160,0:12:01.279
uh

0:11:59.600,0:12:03.920
[ __ ] they got acquired by twitter i

0:12:01.279,0:12:06.399
can't remember what their name was

0:12:03.920,0:12:07.600
and so this was early 2015. yeah it's

0:12:06.399,0:12:09.200
yeah it's interesting because that was

0:12:07.600,0:12:12.399
pretty early and it's like i

0:12:09.200,0:12:14.480
i'm i'm much further behind these

0:12:12.399,0:12:15.760
industries but it feels like from my

0:12:14.480,0:12:17.440
perspective

0:12:15.760,0:12:19.120
influencer marking has kind of just

0:12:17.440,0:12:20.160
started to take off in i don't know

0:12:19.120,0:12:21.839
recent years

0:12:20.160,0:12:24.399
obviously it was taking off way before

0:12:21.839,0:12:26.160
that but it seems like it's a pretty big

0:12:24.399,0:12:28.000
uh industry it's gotten bigger as more

0:12:26.160,0:12:29.360
people get online more people think

0:12:28.000,0:12:31.600
i'm going to be an influencer as a

0:12:29.360,0:12:33.120
career too right so you see a lot more

0:12:31.600,0:12:33.600
quote micro influencers and all these

0:12:33.120,0:12:35.279
kind of

0:12:33.600,0:12:36.800
basically this ad inventory that's

0:12:35.279,0:12:38.800
adding itself to be

0:12:36.800,0:12:40.399
tapped into but if you look back there

0:12:38.800,0:12:41.279
was a brand called daniel wellington

0:12:40.399,0:12:43.200
that made watches

0:12:41.279,0:12:44.639
and they became one of the first brands

0:12:43.200,0:12:46.160
this is pre-fashion nova

0:12:44.639,0:12:48.399
pre-all these brands they became the

0:12:46.160,0:12:50.000
first billion dollar brand off instagram

0:12:48.399,0:12:51.440
and they went from zero to a billion in

0:12:50.000,0:12:53.760
like less than

0:12:51.440,0:12:55.600
30 months 20 24 months maybe just

0:12:53.760,0:12:56.880
because they gifted influencers and

0:12:55.600,0:12:59.120
this was around the time that we were

0:12:56.880,0:13:00.240
doing all this stuff too pretty early

0:12:59.120,0:13:02.639
but yeah you're right we

0:13:00.240,0:13:03.920
i shut the business down in 2015 2016

0:13:02.639,0:13:06.079
because i thought the space was getting

0:13:03.920,0:13:08.000
congested and i figured that the future

0:13:06.079,0:13:09.440
was not really about being a marketplace

0:13:08.000,0:13:10.880
where you can come tap into our

0:13:09.440,0:13:12.880
influencers it would be

0:13:10.880,0:13:15.519
to enable a brand like american express

0:13:12.880,0:13:17.200
to have influencer.mx.com

0:13:15.519,0:13:18.720
where you create relationship equity

0:13:17.200,0:13:20.240
with these influencers over time so

0:13:18.720,0:13:21.440
instead of just paying a 30

0:13:20.240,0:13:23.360
fee every time you want to get some

0:13:21.440,0:13:24.800
performance you actually own the long

0:13:23.360,0:13:27.120
term relationship so you

0:13:24.800,0:13:28.959
basically a sas tool for influencer and

0:13:27.120,0:13:29.839
now that those are the leading tools for

0:13:28.959,0:13:32.959
the most part

0:13:29.839,0:13:35.279
uh our products like grin that help

0:13:32.959,0:13:36.880
enable brands to host and manage their

0:13:35.279,0:13:38.320
own influencer marketing campaigns

0:13:36.880,0:13:39.519
opposed to having to tap in

0:13:38.320,0:13:41.360
because at that point when you you're

0:13:39.519,0:13:42.800
just always paying for that help

0:13:41.360,0:13:43.920
and an influencer would rather work with

0:13:42.800,0:13:45.680
the brand directly than go through an

0:13:43.920,0:13:47.600
agency every time i i mean i know that i

0:13:45.680,0:13:48.079
would never post for taco bell for 25

0:13:47.600,0:13:49.839
bucks

0:13:48.079,0:13:51.120
but if i got a dm for taco bell from

0:13:49.839,0:13:52.240
them directly for a 25

0:13:51.120,0:13:53.839
post i'd probably do it just because

0:13:52.240,0:13:54.480
it'd be funny that taco bell diony

0:13:53.839,0:13:58.720
directed

0:13:54.480,0:14:00.880
right totally so i really enjoyed uh the

0:13:58.720,0:14:04.079
podcast with eric bandholz recently

0:14:00.880,0:14:05.199
um on practical commerce um i was

0:14:04.079,0:14:08.560
correct

0:14:05.199,0:14:11.199
what's that beard bread weird brand yeah

0:14:08.560,0:14:12.000
yeah i was i was i was checking i saw a

0:14:11.199,0:14:13.360
link to uh

0:14:12.000,0:14:15.279
a youtube video of some dude getting his

0:14:13.360,0:14:16.720
haircut there today and i was like yeah

0:14:15.279,0:14:19.040
i got to get my haircut there next time

0:14:16.720,0:14:20.399
yeah i got my hair there too is it was

0:14:19.040,0:14:22.560
it cool is it a cool experience

0:14:20.399,0:14:24.560
yeah so ironically my friend justine

0:14:22.560,0:14:25.440
that i've known for 12 plus years since

0:14:24.560,0:14:27.680
my space

0:14:25.440,0:14:28.480
longer uh before she was even in college

0:14:27.680,0:14:30.800
or did hair

0:14:28.480,0:14:31.920
she's now a hairdresser there and i went

0:14:30.800,0:14:33.120
to get her hair cut she used to have her

0:14:31.920,0:14:34.639
own studio and she's like oh i work at

0:14:33.120,0:14:35.279
this place beer brand now i'm like oh

0:14:34.639,0:14:39.360
what

0:14:35.279,0:14:40.959
you're like what that's awesome

0:14:39.360,0:14:42.800
it's great and i guess they've caught

0:14:40.959,0:14:44.959
you know noah kagan and

0:14:42.800,0:14:44.959
right

0:14:50.639,0:14:54.959
um but so it was funny like i was

0:14:53.760,0:14:56.399
cracking up at the part where you're

0:14:54.959,0:14:57.279
talking about like twitter follower

0:14:56.399,0:14:58.959
ratios

0:14:57.279,0:15:00.399
and i know you were talking about like

0:14:58.959,0:15:03.040
the phase where you were more like

0:15:00.399,0:15:04.800
growth hacking twitter versus like now

0:15:03.040,0:15:06.480
you just kind of use it organically post

0:15:04.800,0:15:07.199
whatever comes to mind without thinking

0:15:06.480,0:15:08.720
about

0:15:07.199,0:15:09.920
how to schedule it or what you know what

0:15:08.720,0:15:10.880
are people going to think which i think

0:15:09.920,0:15:14.480
is the more

0:15:10.880,0:15:16.000
kind of organic way to use it um

0:15:14.480,0:15:17.920
and i'll think about the ratio thing

0:15:16.000,0:15:19.040
sometimes too i'm like that's so stupid

0:15:17.920,0:15:20.639
you know such a stupid way

0:15:19.040,0:15:22.240
why do i use twitter because i want to

0:15:20.639,0:15:23.920
learn from people and hopefully

0:15:22.240,0:15:25.839
some people but mostly so i can

0:15:23.920,0:15:27.760
selfishly learn and if i'm only

0:15:25.839,0:15:28.959
following 900 people because i want to

0:15:27.760,0:15:30.639
look cool on twitter

0:15:28.959,0:15:32.560
that doesn't help me this means i'm only

0:15:30.639,0:15:33.120
learning to select few i want to open

0:15:32.560,0:15:34.560
the door

0:15:33.120,0:15:36.399
right like yeah i'm not going to limit

0:15:34.560,0:15:37.600
myself to the certain amount of books or

0:15:36.399,0:15:38.800
people i can learn from because i want

0:15:37.600,0:15:41.360
to look a certain way i'm done

0:15:38.800,0:15:42.959
yeah yeah the thing that i worry like

0:15:41.360,0:15:44.240
the thing now though if there's somebody

0:15:42.959,0:15:45.040
i'm like i think i want to follow them

0:15:44.240,0:15:48.480
but i'm not sure

0:15:45.040,0:15:49.839
is like if i follow them and then like a

0:15:48.480,0:15:51.279
few days later i'm like oh i'm not

0:15:49.839,0:15:52.639
really interested in that stuff and then

0:15:51.279,0:15:53.920
i unfollow

0:15:52.639,0:15:55.759
i feel like they're going to think i'm

0:15:53.920,0:15:58.720
doing some growth hacking on them so

0:15:55.759,0:16:01.519
then i'm like afraid to do the initial

0:15:58.720,0:16:03.279
i hate that that's how i feel but so

0:16:01.519,0:16:04.720
what i do now is i follow people and if

0:16:03.279,0:16:06.079
i don't like what they have to say all

0:16:04.720,0:16:07.279
the time i mute them so they're no

0:16:06.079,0:16:08.639
longer in my feed

0:16:07.279,0:16:09.920
yeah every now and then every now and

0:16:08.639,0:16:11.199
then i think about them or i see that

0:16:09.920,0:16:12.240
they liked something i said yeah then i

0:16:11.199,0:16:14.880
go to their profile

0:16:12.240,0:16:15.519
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i do a lot of

0:16:14.880,0:16:18.720
that too

0:16:15.519,0:16:20.480
um i love the way you use twitter and

0:16:18.720,0:16:20.880
just like you're like super transparent

0:16:20.480,0:16:22.480
about

0:16:20.880,0:16:24.240
everything like how you're sleeping to

0:16:22.480,0:16:25.839
just like stuff you're going through

0:16:24.240,0:16:26.160
which i think is a cool way for people

0:16:25.839,0:16:27.920
to

0:16:26.160,0:16:29.279
to use twitter just put themselves out

0:16:27.920,0:16:31.360
there you know

0:16:29.279,0:16:32.480
i mean life is hard being an

0:16:31.360,0:16:34.800
entrepreneur is hard

0:16:32.480,0:16:36.320
and yeah i've dealt with a lot of things

0:16:34.800,0:16:36.720
that probably people have dealt with and

0:16:36.320,0:16:38.560
maybe

0:16:36.720,0:16:41.120
most people have dealt with more but you

0:16:38.560,0:16:42.079
know i i'm not proud to say this but

0:16:41.120,0:16:44.240
just honestly like

0:16:42.079,0:16:45.920
when my last company shut down we were

0:16:44.240,0:16:46.880
you know in some acquisition talks to

0:16:45.920,0:16:48.880
buy our business for

0:16:46.880,0:16:50.480
a large eight-figure sum and it fell

0:16:48.880,0:16:51.839
through because my co-founder locked me

0:16:50.480,0:16:53.199
out of the code base and left with the

0:16:51.839,0:16:55.199
other three engineers and raised the

0:16:53.199,0:16:56.959
series a from someone else

0:16:55.199,0:16:59.040
and i had a i got addicted to xanax

0:16:56.959,0:17:00.639
because i was anxiety through the roof

0:16:59.040,0:17:02.720
oh i'm ready to go work at this massive

0:17:00.639,0:17:04.799
company that's about to buy us because

0:17:02.720,0:17:06.400
you know they see maker studios and all

0:17:04.799,0:17:08.000
these youtube mcns getting acquired for

0:17:06.400,0:17:09.039
hundreds of millions they can get us for

0:17:08.000,0:17:12.480
a fraction

0:17:09.039,0:17:13.760
more scrappy with a small team right so

0:17:12.480,0:17:15.679
all the way to now i'm looking at where

0:17:13.760,0:17:16.959
i am i'm thankful again to

0:17:15.679,0:17:19.439
be in a good position but yeah being an

0:17:16.959,0:17:21.199
entrepreneur is hard man

0:17:19.439,0:17:22.640
but i my honesty i hope is not coming

0:17:21.199,0:17:24.000
off ever as rude because sometimes i'm

0:17:22.640,0:17:26.240
opinionated but like

0:17:24.000,0:17:27.679
yeah things happen you know yeah i think

0:17:26.240,0:17:29.919
yeah i think there's that like when

0:17:27.679,0:17:31.039
people are honest and raw and direct it

0:17:29.919,0:17:33.039
can it can it can

0:17:31.039,0:17:34.080
cause for arguments and sometimes the

0:17:33.039,0:17:36.720
arguments can be

0:17:34.080,0:17:38.400
more constructive than others but i dude

0:17:36.720,0:17:40.320
i like i think that's

0:17:38.400,0:17:42.000
so cool that you can be so transparent

0:17:40.320,0:17:43.679
about that stuff i know like gary vee

0:17:42.000,0:17:45.760
talks about

0:17:43.679,0:17:47.600
the dark side of entrepreneurship a lot

0:17:45.760,0:17:49.440
right like a lot of people that

0:17:47.600,0:17:51.600
are super depressed or you're just

0:17:49.440,0:17:54.160
working alone like whatever and

0:17:51.600,0:17:55.919
and you can feel quite a bit of

0:17:54.160,0:17:58.240
depression and stuff like that so

0:17:55.919,0:18:00.160
100 i think that this is something that

0:17:58.240,0:18:00.799
like it's not popular to talk about it

0:18:00.160,0:18:02.480
because what

0:18:00.799,0:18:03.760
what's the answer that everyone wants to

0:18:02.480,0:18:05.919
hear that you want to tell everyone oh

0:18:03.760,0:18:08.240
we're crushing it everything's good

0:18:05.919,0:18:09.039
i mean i know for my my co-founder and i

0:18:08.240,0:18:11.120
we've spent

0:18:09.039,0:18:12.720
26 months on our business and we haven't

0:18:11.120,0:18:13.919
been the best at delegating like

0:18:12.720,0:18:15.760
to hire people because we're not the

0:18:13.919,0:18:18.799
best at trusting people and because we

0:18:15.760,0:18:19.520
both are very good at what we do uh do

0:18:18.799,0:18:20.799
it better

0:18:19.520,0:18:22.160
right but that's not that's not how you

0:18:20.799,0:18:23.440
scale a business right we haven't taken

0:18:22.160,0:18:25.120
a vacation in two years

0:18:23.440,0:18:26.799
and we're profitable we're growing we're

0:18:25.120,0:18:28.480
a phenomenal business i'm very happy for

0:18:26.799,0:18:28.960
the position we're in but i haven't done

0:18:28.480,0:18:32.480
a good

0:18:28.960,0:18:34.080
job allowing myself to live uh while

0:18:32.480,0:18:35.360
running i am the business not running

0:18:34.080,0:18:35.840
the whole business does that make sense

0:18:35.360,0:18:37.360
and so

0:18:35.840,0:18:39.360
we're learning that now and i think a

0:18:37.360,0:18:41.679
lot of people unfortunately and myself

0:18:39.360,0:18:43.200
have done this and still do is kind of

0:18:41.679,0:18:44.559
tie your business's worth to your

0:18:43.200,0:18:46.080
self-worth and that's a very

0:18:44.559,0:18:48.000
very slippery slope and scared it's a

0:18:46.080,0:18:48.320
date yeah it's a dangerous place to be

0:18:48.000,0:18:51.520
so

0:18:48.320,0:18:52.960
live recover uh your sms abandoned cart

0:18:51.520,0:18:55.520
uh solution

0:18:52.960,0:18:56.240
looks i mean i love it like it looks

0:18:55.520,0:18:57.520
incredible

0:18:56.240,0:18:59.360
it seems like you guys are doing

0:18:57.520,0:19:00.720
incredibly well um

0:18:59.360,0:19:02.960
another thing i picked up from that

0:19:00.720,0:19:05.840
podcast that you did was like

0:19:02.960,0:19:08.000
you know the industry really well uh you

0:19:05.840,0:19:09.679
don't bs when it comes to like different

0:19:08.000,0:19:11.120
tools people are using and things like

0:19:09.679,0:19:13.520
that so it seems

0:19:11.120,0:19:14.240
like a great solution and like your

0:19:13.520,0:19:17.039
offer

0:19:14.240,0:19:18.720
like 500 risk-free trial don't even have

0:19:17.039,0:19:21.200
to put a credit card down

0:19:18.720,0:19:24.000
is like to me that's nuts like that's

0:19:21.200,0:19:25.440
got to be converting really well for you

0:19:24.000,0:19:27.600
it converts well right i mean we don't

0:19:25.440,0:19:28.720
want anyone to feel like we're asking

0:19:27.600,0:19:30.640
for anything up front

0:19:28.720,0:19:32.240
we'll give you you know two weeks of

0:19:30.640,0:19:33.840
usage or 500

0:19:32.240,0:19:35.679
in revenue up front obviously we have

0:19:33.840,0:19:37.600
bigger stores joined sometimes that

0:19:35.679,0:19:39.440
recover 5 000 in a day right we don't

0:19:37.600,0:19:40.880
cap them at 500 we give them

0:19:39.440,0:19:42.160
you know you should have enough data

0:19:40.880,0:19:44.000
after a day or two if you've generated

0:19:42.160,0:19:46.080
that much recovered revenue in a day

0:19:44.000,0:19:47.600
but for the most part yeah the offer is

0:19:46.080,0:19:48.480
pretty good we know where we stand in

0:19:47.600,0:19:50.880
the market we're

0:19:48.480,0:19:52.559
we're we're supportive of our of our

0:19:50.880,0:19:54.320
competitors right if anything we're all

0:19:52.559,0:19:54.799
bringing more education to the space

0:19:54.320,0:19:56.640
which

0:19:54.799,0:19:58.559
hopefully draws more market pool to more

0:19:56.640,0:20:00.400
people wanting to try solutions and

0:19:58.559,0:20:02.240
you know i don't mind if a customer

0:20:00.400,0:20:04.320
outgrows us and ends up at

0:20:02.240,0:20:06.000
postscript or attentive and i also love

0:20:04.320,0:20:07.600
to be a part of the conversation if our

0:20:06.000,0:20:09.200
product is used in parallel with

0:20:07.600,0:20:10.559
postscript and attentive which we see a

0:20:09.200,0:20:11.840
lot right because we're uh

0:20:10.559,0:20:12.960
you know we like to think of ourselves

0:20:11.840,0:20:14.240
and i know i've said this before but we

0:20:12.960,0:20:15.520
think of ourselves as a steak knife and

0:20:14.240,0:20:16.960
they're a swiss army knife we're not

0:20:15.520,0:20:17.600
building a swiss army knife but whenever

0:20:16.960,0:20:21.039
you want to cut

0:20:17.600,0:20:22.559
deep use us right and force either not

0:20:21.039,0:20:22.960
potentially being a situation where

0:20:22.559,0:20:24.960
we're

0:20:22.960,0:20:26.400
maybe even a managed solution on top of

0:20:24.960,0:20:27.600
postscript or a tenant because

0:20:26.400,0:20:29.440
we know where we sit we don't want to

0:20:27.600,0:20:30.480
build a 100 million or even a billion

0:20:29.440,0:20:32.880
dollar business

0:20:30.480,0:20:33.600
we're cool with a 10 to 20 million

0:20:32.880,0:20:36.640
dollar

0:20:33.600,0:20:37.120
quote lifestyle business hey with 60 to

0:20:36.640,0:20:38.960
70

0:20:37.120,0:20:40.640
margins i will agree i love this

0:20:38.960,0:20:44.080
business it's a great business yeah

0:20:40.640,0:20:46.640
um yeah i so i actually built an email

0:20:44.080,0:20:48.559
abandoned cart software for magento like

0:20:46.640,0:20:49.600
i know five years ago a small got a

0:20:48.559,0:20:52.080
small acquisition

0:20:49.600,0:20:54.159
out of it and it feels like this is like

0:20:52.080,0:20:56.240
a new and improved version of that like

0:20:54.159,0:20:59.760
that was for magento and it was email

0:20:56.240,0:21:03.440
this is text for for shopify um

0:20:59.760,0:21:05.440
and uh it's it's uh it's funny i think i

0:21:03.440,0:21:07.600
was sort of very short-sighted

0:21:05.440,0:21:09.919
when it came to thinking about

0:21:07.600,0:21:12.720
competitors like if somebody was

0:21:09.919,0:21:14.559
even uh remotely a competitor i was like

0:21:12.720,0:21:16.640
i don't want to talk to you

0:21:14.559,0:21:18.640
where competitors and then it took me a

0:21:16.640,0:21:20.159
while after the fact to realize that

0:21:18.640,0:21:22.000
like i had a customer that was using

0:21:20.159,0:21:24.480
both my solution

0:21:22.000,0:21:25.280
and another email solution together and

0:21:24.480,0:21:28.080
i was like oh

0:21:25.280,0:21:29.360
it's the same thing you're saying like

0:21:28.080,0:21:31.200
to the extent that the tools are

0:21:29.360,0:21:32.400
different customers can use you in

0:21:31.200,0:21:34.640
different contexts

0:21:32.400,0:21:37.120
you know right and we know that we are

0:21:34.640,0:21:39.280
we are a product we are not a platform

0:21:37.120,0:21:41.200
uh and we went about that intentionally

0:21:39.280,0:21:43.200
i have a co-founder who's an amazing guy

0:21:41.200,0:21:45.039
he's extremely smart he's too smart to

0:21:43.200,0:21:45.919
be building sms marketing software which

0:21:45.039,0:21:47.200
is why we

0:21:45.919,0:21:49.200
you know deliberately said let's just

0:21:47.200,0:21:51.760
build the best product that we can

0:21:49.200,0:21:53.760
let's let other people build the 50 the

0:21:51.760,0:21:55.120
250 person team that want to build a

0:21:53.760,0:21:58.400
platform and support

0:21:55.120,0:22:00.000
10 000 customers we'll take the couple

0:21:58.400,0:22:00.960
thousand customers and run a nice

0:22:00.000,0:22:02.400
profitable business

0:22:00.960,0:22:04.480
and then we'll rinse and repeat right i

0:22:02.400,0:22:05.840
mean we have enough ideas to

0:22:04.480,0:22:08.000
to make a few more businesses if we

0:22:05.840,0:22:10.320
wanted to or to decide on a more

0:22:08.000,0:22:12.240
challenging uh problem yes

0:22:10.320,0:22:13.760
the vc thing is interesting like i've

0:22:12.240,0:22:14.480
always been very kind of bootstrap

0:22:13.760,0:22:16.240
oriented

0:22:14.480,0:22:18.080
um and i know you were posting about

0:22:16.240,0:22:18.720
like the fast evaluation recently and

0:22:18.080,0:22:22.000
stuff like that

0:22:18.720,0:22:24.080
it's such a it's such a weird thing

0:22:22.000,0:22:25.120
with company valuations there's a lot of

0:22:24.080,0:22:28.240
stuff that's uh

0:22:25.120,0:22:30.720
seems very inflated and just weird

0:22:28.240,0:22:31.600
there is have you seen the uh it's uh

0:22:30.720,0:22:34.240
chamath

0:22:31.600,0:22:35.600
and jason talking about the vt ponzi

0:22:34.240,0:22:37.039
scheme that's just what i think

0:22:35.600,0:22:38.880
of because i'm like i'm not

0:22:37.039,0:22:39.200
disrespecting fast i think that they

0:22:38.880,0:22:41.280
have

0:22:39.200,0:22:42.799
some really talented people they have a

0:22:41.280,0:22:44.080
very big organization for what seems

0:22:42.799,0:22:45.360
like a product that doesn't have a lot

0:22:44.080,0:22:46.960
of adoption yet and that

0:22:45.360,0:22:48.559
that's not to say that they won't but

0:22:46.960,0:22:50.000
because they're entering entering such a

0:22:48.559,0:22:50.960
mature space i have a hard time

0:22:50.000,0:22:52.159
understanding like

0:22:50.960,0:22:54.320
shopify is not letting you on their

0:22:52.159,0:22:56.400
platform you're literally your valuation

0:22:54.320,0:22:57.360
is as much as the platform big commerce

0:22:56.400,0:22:59.600
that you're supporting

0:22:57.360,0:23:01.039
one billion dollar valuation raising at

0:22:59.600,0:23:03.200
200 million at one billion

0:23:01.039,0:23:04.400
big commerce ipod at 1.1 billion how are

0:23:03.200,0:23:04.720
you bigger than the platform that you're

0:23:04.400,0:23:06.320
on

0:23:04.720,0:23:08.400
if you're blocking the other platforms

0:23:06.320,0:23:10.320
you'll never be on amazon pal has their

0:23:08.400,0:23:13.679
own solution for the rest of the web

0:23:10.320,0:23:16.480
apple pay exists well vetmo cash app

0:23:13.679,0:23:17.840
right so for me i'm just after pay quad

0:23:16.480,0:23:20.080
pay i'm just thinking

0:23:17.840,0:23:21.520
you're a little late to party uh right

0:23:20.080,0:23:22.559
granted there are some very cool people

0:23:21.520,0:23:24.080
that work there and talented people but

0:23:22.559,0:23:26.400
it doesn't change the fact

0:23:24.080,0:23:27.760
right yeah no that that that doesn't

0:23:26.400,0:23:28.240
make sense i hadn't even thought it

0:23:27.760,0:23:30.799
through

0:23:28.240,0:23:31.679
uh in those different dimensions but

0:23:30.799,0:23:33.200
yeah there is a

0:23:31.679,0:23:35.440
quite a bit of it seems like there's a

0:23:33.200,0:23:37.440
lot of limitation there on on the growth

0:23:35.440,0:23:38.480
um and i mean that's how that is right

0:23:37.440,0:23:40.159
now they're right i mean look at our

0:23:38.480,0:23:41.360
competitors and this is i'm applauding

0:23:40.159,0:23:42.640
them for this because this is helping

0:23:41.360,0:23:45.279
our valuation too

0:23:42.640,0:23:47.600
but our competitors i mean attentive has

0:23:45.279,0:23:48.799
raised 390 million dollars at a 2.2

0:23:47.600,0:23:50.480
billion dollar valuation

0:23:48.799,0:23:52.880
that means that their only next option

0:23:50.480,0:23:53.679
is to either buy mailchimp or clayvio

0:23:52.880,0:23:56.640
and then they're going to compete

0:23:53.679,0:23:58.480
against salesforce like they're too big

0:23:56.640,0:23:59.840
like that's not kind of that's beyond

0:23:58.480,0:24:00.480
anything i'm thinking about yeah i'm

0:23:59.840,0:24:02.080
like

0:24:00.480,0:24:04.720
probably in the 100 million valuation

0:24:02.080,0:24:06.640
range maybe right that's great

0:24:04.720,0:24:08.159
and live recovery fits in for those who

0:24:06.640,0:24:09.360
who you know who don't

0:24:08.159,0:24:11.039
who want a premium service for a

0:24:09.360,0:24:12.559
platform it's very weird to look but

0:24:11.039,0:24:13.840
we're okay with where we sit if that

0:24:12.559,0:24:15.120
makes sense some people want to

0:24:13.840,0:24:16.880
compete with everyone and race to the

0:24:15.120,0:24:18.799
front of the line i'm not saying i'm in

0:24:16.880,0:24:19.360
a race i'm happy with taking third place

0:24:18.799,0:24:22.320
of a

0:24:19.360,0:24:23.360
huge line uh for this is not my ambition

0:24:22.320,0:24:26.799
for this project

0:24:23.360,0:24:28.559
yeah yeah it's uh yeah i've always been

0:24:26.799,0:24:30.240
real bootstrap boy and it's just like

0:24:28.559,0:24:32.559
you can have a simple

0:24:30.240,0:24:34.400
business that you know is makes sense

0:24:32.559,0:24:36.000
it's saying you can have a work schedule

0:24:34.400,0:24:37.679
that's a little more sane

0:24:36.000,0:24:39.039
right you said your business right you

0:24:37.679,0:24:40.240
maybe wouldn't have been able to it was

0:24:39.039,0:24:41.600
vc back you probably would

0:24:40.240,0:24:43.360
have to swing for the offenses or

0:24:41.600,0:24:45.440
whatever yeah right

0:24:43.360,0:24:47.840
yeah yeah what dude when it comes to

0:24:45.440,0:24:49.600
twilio man i i i'm like

0:24:47.840,0:24:50.880
i should have invested in twilight like

0:24:49.600,0:24:51.919
it's probably still a good time to

0:24:50.880,0:24:54.559
invest it's about that

0:24:51.919,0:24:55.279
i said i was i posted a whole thread

0:24:54.559,0:24:56.880
that said

0:24:55.279,0:24:58.559
if i look at the two companies we built

0:24:56.880,0:25:00.080
their home whole business on when we

0:24:58.559,0:25:01.679
started live recovery shopify was

0:25:00.080,0:25:05.039
trading at eighty-eight dollars

0:25:01.679,0:25:06.480
and twilio was 25. now shopify is

0:25:05.039,0:25:07.520
trading over a thousand and twilio's

0:25:06.480,0:25:09.840
trading over three hundred

0:25:07.520,0:25:11.440
so we could have made over 800 to a

0:25:09.840,0:25:12.240
thousand percent returns on our money if

0:25:11.440,0:25:13.679
we put the money

0:25:12.240,0:25:15.279
into the companies that we built our

0:25:13.679,0:25:16.559
whole business around is that a little

0:25:15.279,0:25:17.919
bit scary to have all

0:25:16.559,0:25:19.919
risk in the companies you're using but

0:25:17.919,0:25:21.360
yeah if you're if you support and you're

0:25:19.919,0:25:22.480
building a business around these tools

0:25:21.360,0:25:22.960
you should probably have some money in

0:25:22.480,0:25:25.120
them

0:25:22.960,0:25:26.799
yeah and i saw somebody say recently

0:25:25.120,0:25:28.799
like if you are

0:25:26.799,0:25:30.880
um at like as somebody that's in tech

0:25:28.799,0:25:32.720
and if you're using a tool

0:25:30.880,0:25:34.159
like you you don't feel like you're an

0:25:32.720,0:25:35.039
early adopter like if you're using

0:25:34.159,0:25:36.480
twilio

0:25:35.039,0:25:38.720
you don't feel like you're an early

0:25:36.480,0:25:40.799
adopter of twilio because anybody that's

0:25:38.720,0:25:43.520
building an app is using twilio for tech

0:25:40.799,0:25:44.640
for sms but compared to the whole

0:25:43.520,0:25:46.559
population

0:25:44.640,0:25:47.919
you are an early adopter so if you know

0:25:46.559,0:25:49.679
a tool is good

0:25:47.919,0:25:50.960
you should be investing in it you know

0:25:49.679,0:25:52.960
right right that's why

0:25:50.960,0:25:54.400
i mean i bought back in you know like a

0:25:52.960,0:25:56.640
month and a half ago because i know

0:25:54.400,0:25:57.760
how are politicians these days oh wait

0:25:56.640,0:25:59.440
it's through sms

0:25:57.760,0:26:00.960
if you want to do contactless and

0:25:59.440,0:26:02.559
touchless like book

0:26:00.960,0:26:04.000
an apartment give me feedback at

0:26:02.559,0:26:04.799
starbucks it's no longer called my

0:26:04.000,0:26:06.559
manager it's

0:26:04.799,0:26:07.760
text this number i mean i see it

0:26:06.559,0:26:08.960
everywhere i pay attention to because

0:26:07.760,0:26:10.080
this is what i do for work

0:26:08.960,0:26:11.919
right i'm just thinking about it from

0:26:10.080,0:26:12.880
the grand scheme twilio is the one

0:26:11.919,0:26:15.279
that's winning here

0:26:12.880,0:26:17.520
i mean they just bought right three

0:26:15.279,0:26:18.880
billion dollars and i use segment also

0:26:17.520,0:26:20.720
i'm like [ __ ] they were a private

0:26:18.880,0:26:21.919
company i couldn't acquire any

0:26:20.720,0:26:24.240
shares i guess if i was you know

0:26:21.919,0:26:25.279
whatever secondary shares but i'm not an

0:26:24.240,0:26:29.600
investor that has money

0:26:25.279,0:26:31.840
right but yeah i mean to your point yes

0:26:29.600,0:26:34.080
yeah so i think you said that you guys

0:26:31.840,0:26:35.039
did the text messages for andrew yang's

0:26:34.080,0:26:36.720
campaign

0:26:35.039,0:26:38.320
we did we did the political donation

0:26:36.720,0:26:41.360
recovery for andrew yang of russia

0:26:38.320,0:26:43.919
that's wild man he i mean he

0:26:41.360,0:26:44.559
he's a cool dude like you know i mean

0:26:43.919,0:26:46.400
like

0:26:44.559,0:26:48.159
exactly how well will some of those

0:26:46.400,0:26:51.360
ideas work out it's hard to say but

0:26:48.159,0:26:54.000
you have to admit it's impressive how

0:26:51.360,0:26:56.000
quickly he got his ideas out there and

0:26:54.000,0:26:56.880
really how well he got his message out

0:26:56.000,0:26:59.120
there

0:26:56.880,0:27:01.039
i he's just a guy i respect to because

0:26:59.120,0:27:01.360
he doesn't like he doesn't play the game

0:27:01.039,0:27:03.120
of

0:27:01.360,0:27:04.840
you know of like politics and stuff like

0:27:03.120,0:27:06.480
that but he seems like a political

0:27:04.840,0:27:09.200
non-politician and

0:27:06.480,0:27:10.240
we were honestly it was the easiest i

0:27:09.200,0:27:13.360
actually didn't know this but

0:27:10.240,0:27:15.440
i dm'd him on twitter yeah he followed

0:27:13.360,0:27:15.919
exactly like your app sounds sick let's

0:27:15.440,0:27:18.240
go

0:27:15.919,0:27:19.200
and i'm like dude that's awesome we

0:27:18.240,0:27:21.120
signed up we

0:27:19.200,0:27:23.039
recovered over a million dollars for him

0:27:21.120,0:27:24.480
in like two months or three months

0:27:23.039,0:27:25.520
and then i found out that the whole time

0:27:24.480,0:27:26.720
i didn't know this while we were working

0:27:25.520,0:27:27.679
with him my friend was running his

0:27:26.720,0:27:29.200
facebook ads

0:27:27.679,0:27:30.960
to generate the traffic to get the

0:27:29.200,0:27:32.320
donations and he was an 18 year old kid

0:27:30.960,0:27:32.880
who also ran the campaign for the

0:27:32.320,0:27:36.080
bloomberg

0:27:32.880,0:27:37.760
ads that's wild all small

0:27:36.080,0:27:39.120
very small circle but yeah andrew yang's

0:27:37.760,0:27:40.799
a very progressive guy

0:27:39.120,0:27:42.559
uh i don't know if you know i thought

0:27:40.799,0:27:44.399
like you said his ideas were very

0:27:42.559,0:27:45.919
progressive and unique some of them also

0:27:44.399,0:27:47.200
were a little premature if he had

0:27:45.919,0:27:48.799
still been running during equipment i

0:27:47.200,0:27:49.600
think he would have had a massive influx

0:27:48.799,0:27:52.640
in voter support

0:27:49.600,0:27:54.399
but right it knew the recovery for him

0:27:52.640,0:27:56.320
uh which was you know at the time one of

0:27:54.399,0:27:57.039
our bigger one of our bigger clients but

0:27:56.320,0:27:58.720
we do have

0:27:57.039,0:28:00.000
customers that are doing you know i

0:27:58.720,0:28:01.679
think we have a couple customers that

0:28:00.000,0:28:02.080
have recovered you know in the 5 to 10

0:28:01.679,0:28:05.039
million

0:28:02.080,0:28:06.399
range i saw the the the tweet you posted

0:28:05.039,0:28:07.679
recently i can't remember the numbers

0:28:06.399,0:28:10.159
offhand but it was some

0:28:07.679,0:28:11.520
huge numbers might have been four

0:28:10.159,0:28:12.880
million dollars you recovered or

0:28:11.520,0:28:14.720
something like that four and a half

0:28:12.880,0:28:16.720
million recovered in in a little over a

0:28:14.720,0:28:19.760
year and a couple months with like a

0:28:16.720,0:28:21.120
15 recovery rate or something um it's

0:28:19.760,0:28:23.039
incredible

0:28:21.120,0:28:25.120
but then i think about you know we have

0:28:23.039,0:28:26.880
thousands of customers and in aggregate

0:28:25.120,0:28:28.480
you know those numbers are really big

0:28:26.880,0:28:29.919
and then i think wow i can't

0:28:28.480,0:28:31.919
i really would love the opportunity to

0:28:29.919,0:28:34.159
do this for walmart.com or

0:28:31.919,0:28:35.679
or someone that does billions a year

0:28:34.159,0:28:37.039
online where i can say look just by

0:28:35.679,0:28:38.720
acquiring our tool you can look at the

0:28:37.039,0:28:40.720
data across all of our merchants but

0:28:38.720,0:28:42.159
if you have your unilever if you're

0:28:40.720,0:28:43.120
procter and gamble and you direct to

0:28:42.159,0:28:45.120
consumer

0:28:43.120,0:28:46.320
like we could bring in hundreds of

0:28:45.120,0:28:48.080
millions of dollars

0:28:46.320,0:28:50.159
minimum based on you seeing the data

0:28:48.080,0:28:51.520
from these stores imagine your stores

0:28:50.159,0:28:53.120
your offers

0:28:51.520,0:28:55.120
i mean anyway i know i'm just tooting my

0:28:53.120,0:28:57.440
own homes i'm biased but

0:28:55.120,0:28:58.720
it's crazy to look at that's what this

0:28:57.440,0:29:00.880
is

0:28:58.720,0:29:02.640
yeah yeah no that's that's awesome are

0:29:00.880,0:29:04.159
there limitations when it comes to if

0:29:02.640,0:29:05.840
they're if like you said a walmart who

0:29:04.159,0:29:06.960
knows what ecommerce platform they're on

0:29:05.840,0:29:07.679
or they're probably on a ton of

0:29:06.960,0:29:10.320
different ones

0:29:07.679,0:29:12.080
i believe you guys focus on shopify but

0:29:10.320,0:29:15.520
you also support other

0:29:12.080,0:29:16.000
platforms as well um would you be able

0:29:15.520,0:29:18.799
to

0:29:16.000,0:29:20.640
do like does your solution plug into any

0:29:18.799,0:29:21.679
different platform to headless platforms

0:29:20.640,0:29:23.679
and stuff like that

0:29:21.679,0:29:25.279
good question so right now we have a

0:29:23.679,0:29:26.320
obviously a shopify app which has been

0:29:25.279,0:29:28.159
up for two years

0:29:26.320,0:29:30.000
our woocommerce app has been live for

0:29:28.159,0:29:30.480
about three months with a couple of

0:29:30.000,0:29:32.399
couples

0:29:30.480,0:29:34.240
a couple customers there we have a big

0:29:32.399,0:29:35.200
commerce app that was just submitted to

0:29:34.240,0:29:36.480
bigcommerce so

0:29:35.200,0:29:38.320
i don't know if it's approved yet in

0:29:36.480,0:29:40.640
their app directory but the app is

0:29:38.320,0:29:42.480
done we also have a magento plug-in that

0:29:40.640,0:29:44.240
we're testing with a few stores

0:29:42.480,0:29:46.720
uh like i say a few like literally i

0:29:44.240,0:29:49.679
think we have three magenta stores

0:29:46.720,0:29:50.559
and then we have we just pushed support

0:29:49.679,0:29:52.880
today

0:29:50.559,0:29:54.080
for uh for crate joy which is a local

0:29:52.880,0:29:57.200
austin company as well i

0:29:54.080,0:29:58.399
saw that yeah congrats on that today we

0:29:57.200,0:30:00.000
support crate joy

0:29:58.399,0:30:02.000
uh and then we do have an api which

0:30:00.000,0:30:03.200
would allow us technically to integrate

0:30:02.000,0:30:05.360
into any website

0:30:03.200,0:30:07.520
but someone like walmart or like anyone

0:30:05.360,0:30:08.320
of that scale we would have to hire the

0:30:07.520,0:30:10.880
customer

0:30:08.320,0:30:11.840
aim just to support that integration and

0:30:10.880,0:30:13.520
have dev support

0:30:11.840,0:30:14.799
and just non-stop i mean that would be

0:30:13.520,0:30:16.000
obviously an annual contract type of

0:30:14.799,0:30:18.640
situation and we're

0:30:16.000,0:30:20.559
we're not an enterprise tool since we're

0:30:18.640,0:30:22.480
a managed service but the software we

0:30:20.559,0:30:24.159
built could easily be white labeled so

0:30:22.480,0:30:26.399
that walmart's reps could become

0:30:24.159,0:30:27.919
our texting agents and then use it for

0:30:26.399,0:30:30.799
that business if that makes sense

0:30:27.919,0:30:32.880
um but yeah that would require you know

0:30:30.799,0:30:34.320
our api integration and to be honest and

0:30:32.880,0:30:35.600
like transparent we haven't done any

0:30:34.320,0:30:37.360
custom

0:30:35.600,0:30:38.720
api integrations yet just because that

0:30:37.360,0:30:40.480
requires an

0:30:38.720,0:30:41.919
annual contract an enterprise deal and

0:30:40.480,0:30:44.960
that's more salesforce

0:30:41.919,0:30:47.279
custom solutions um yeah stations but

0:30:44.960,0:30:49.679
no no customers of that uh sort of up

0:30:47.279,0:30:51.520
top market yeah just mid market

0:30:49.679,0:30:53.360
it's kind of a like when it when it

0:30:51.520,0:30:55.120
comes to dealing with those bigger deals

0:30:53.360,0:30:57.760
like it's kind of ties a little bit into

0:30:55.120,0:30:59.679
that vc conversation where

0:30:57.760,0:31:01.440
instead of keeping things simple as a

0:30:59.679,0:31:03.200
bootstrap business like you're dealing

0:31:01.440,0:31:03.840
with a different segment of the market

0:31:03.200,0:31:05.440
where

0:31:03.840,0:31:07.200
there's a lot more work it's a much

0:31:05.440,0:31:09.360
longer sales cycle there's like

0:31:07.200,0:31:10.399
probably more bs to deal with it and

0:31:09.360,0:31:11.440
then all of a sudden

0:31:10.399,0:31:13.600
do you guys have enough money in the

0:31:11.440,0:31:14.720
bank to stay around to support us

0:31:13.600,0:31:16.000
like what kind of question is that we're

0:31:14.720,0:31:17.120
bootstrapped and we're here we're having

0:31:16.000,0:31:18.399
this conversation

0:31:17.120,0:31:19.679
like well yeah we could have bought it

0:31:18.399,0:31:20.460
here too why aren't you glad that i made

0:31:19.679,0:31:24.640
it here on my own

0:31:20.460,0:31:26.640
[Laughter]

0:31:24.640,0:31:28.320
i respect you right like if i was to use

0:31:26.640,0:31:29.600
a app and i said hey am i going to build

0:31:28.320,0:31:30.880
my business around your app and you're

0:31:29.600,0:31:32.240
only two months old

0:31:30.880,0:31:34.240
i'd have a different opinion than if you

0:31:32.240,0:31:35.760
were 24 months old versus if you were

0:31:34.240,0:31:37.600
two months old but you had 50 million in

0:31:35.760,0:31:39.440
the bank

0:31:37.600,0:31:41.519
all very situational um hopefully more

0:31:39.440,0:31:43.679
people start to to give a little bit of

0:31:41.519,0:31:45.440
trust and trust and want to risk on on

0:31:43.679,0:31:46.559
bootstrap companies because i think

0:31:45.440,0:31:47.679
i think we're going to see that that's

0:31:46.559,0:31:49.279
sort of the future way to build a

0:31:47.679,0:31:51.600
business uh if you want to live a

0:31:49.279,0:31:52.960
healthy lifestyle of course if you want

0:31:51.600,0:31:54.960
grand slam and you want to become a

0:31:52.960,0:31:56.080
billionaire i think you should raise vc

0:31:54.960,0:31:57.279
i don't want to try to become a

0:31:56.080,0:31:58.880
billionaire but i like my odds at

0:31:57.279,0:31:59.919
getting to 10 to 20 million a year a lot

0:31:58.880,0:32:00.880
better than i do at getting to a

0:31:59.919,0:32:03.600
billionaire

0:32:00.880,0:32:04.159
i i like them too i like them too i love

0:32:03.600,0:32:05.840
um

0:32:04.159,0:32:07.600
with your with the text messages that

0:32:05.840,0:32:09.519
you guys send i saw like a screenshot of

0:32:07.600,0:32:12.399
one of your ads and it's like hey

0:32:09.519,0:32:13.840
you know customer first name i saw you

0:32:12.399,0:32:14.720
were looking at the nitro coffee

0:32:13.840,0:32:16.559
whatever i can't

0:32:14.720,0:32:18.720
um can i do you want to discount

0:32:16.559,0:32:20.720
something like that yeah there's so many

0:32:18.720,0:32:22.960
things so i built an email abandoned car

0:32:20.720,0:32:25.039
thing so i pay a lot of attention

0:32:22.960,0:32:27.039
i pay i pay a lot of attention to like

0:32:25.039,0:32:28.720
the little things and like

0:32:27.039,0:32:30.480
one of the things that i didn't used to

0:32:28.720,0:32:33.039
like about a lot of email was

0:32:30.480,0:32:35.360
it was so long there's just all this not

0:32:33.039,0:32:38.000
and so i would try to simplify it down

0:32:35.360,0:32:39.679
and i love like there's several things i

0:32:38.000,0:32:41.519
like about those text messages i like

0:32:39.679,0:32:43.440
how for example you say

0:32:41.519,0:32:44.559
um do you want to see if i can get you a

0:32:43.440,0:32:46.799
discount

0:32:44.559,0:32:48.960
it's a subtle thing but it's it's it's

0:32:46.799,0:32:51.200
it's such a better message than like

0:32:48.960,0:32:53.840
click here for five percent off or

0:32:51.200,0:32:57.200
something like that because

0:32:53.840,0:32:59.919
in your cart thanks

0:32:57.200,0:32:59.919
i know that yeah

0:33:00.240,0:33:03.360
something do i want a discount don't

0:33:02.080,0:33:05.840
want a discount

0:33:03.360,0:33:06.720
right right right you call me by name

0:33:05.840,0:33:08.240
you remind me what's

0:33:06.720,0:33:09.679
in the product in the cart and we check

0:33:08.240,0:33:11.360
what's the most valuable product in the

0:33:09.679,0:33:14.480
car if there's more than one item so we

0:33:11.360,0:33:15.600
prioritize it by value right but yeah to

0:33:14.480,0:33:17.039
your point we're also

0:33:15.600,0:33:19.279
that's one problem we're trying to hope

0:33:17.039,0:33:20.799
solve is we've been discount centric as

0:33:19.279,0:33:22.480
an app so there are some apps

0:33:20.799,0:33:24.320
i'm sorry some brands and merchants that

0:33:22.480,0:33:25.840
say hey ah i want to use live recovery

0:33:24.320,0:33:28.159
but we don't discount uh

0:33:25.840,0:33:29.440
right focus brand we're a luxury brand

0:33:28.159,0:33:31.039
or whatever and

0:33:29.440,0:33:32.960
shipping is already included so the

0:33:31.039,0:33:35.120
performance might not be there

0:33:32.960,0:33:38.000
because you're just reiterating what's

0:33:35.120,0:33:38.000
already there okay

0:33:38.240,0:33:40.720
the future of the product is going to

0:33:39.360,0:33:42.000
have something called a message

0:33:40.720,0:33:44.720
segmentation

0:33:42.000,0:33:45.679
uh which might come in q4 but q1 at the

0:33:44.720,0:33:47.440
at the latest

0:33:45.679,0:33:49.440
but this will allow you to ask different

0:33:47.440,0:33:52.240
questions based on things like

0:33:49.440,0:33:54.000
if cart value is less than 30 and i know

0:33:52.240,0:33:55.200
my average order value is 35.

0:33:54.000,0:33:57.200
instead of offering them a discount

0:33:55.200,0:33:58.799
let's find out why they left

0:33:57.200,0:34:00.480
hey i saw you're checking out this would

0:33:58.799,0:34:01.840
you be willing to share why you didn't

0:34:00.480,0:34:02.799
buy or is there any questions i could

0:34:01.840,0:34:04.640
help you with

0:34:02.799,0:34:06.640
now they're still engaging and asking a

0:34:04.640,0:34:08.159
question and hopefully learning from it

0:34:06.640,0:34:09.280
and then maybe even recovering the sale

0:34:08.159,0:34:09.919
without incentivizing them with the

0:34:09.280,0:34:12.159
discount

0:34:09.919,0:34:13.839
of course if we did that now and your

0:34:12.159,0:34:14.720
first time ex your first impression with

0:34:13.839,0:34:17.200
liver cover is

0:34:14.720,0:34:19.119
hey you advertised 21 abandoned cart

0:34:17.200,0:34:21.280
recovery rates i just tried your app and

0:34:19.119,0:34:23.040
i got six percent your app sucks

0:34:21.280,0:34:24.560
i'm like well you're also not offering

0:34:23.040,0:34:26.800
discounts uh

0:34:24.560,0:34:28.240
and the rest of our our companies do

0:34:26.800,0:34:29.760
that's what we do we try to win someone

0:34:28.240,0:34:31.200
back right your goal is to acquire a

0:34:29.760,0:34:33.040
customer and after that you own that

0:34:31.200,0:34:34.480
customer your ltv might be

0:34:33.040,0:34:36.079
a thousand bucks and you just paid us

0:34:34.480,0:34:37.520
four dollars to acquire a customer i

0:34:36.079,0:34:40.560
think the math there works out

0:34:37.520,0:34:42.560
uh even if your ltv's 40 and you paid us

0:34:40.560,0:34:46.240
for well i think that's still okay

0:34:42.560,0:34:48.800
uh right so i think you know it just uh

0:34:46.240,0:34:51.520
you kind of have to you got to focus on

0:34:48.800,0:34:52.159
kind of the like the the niche that is

0:34:51.520,0:34:55.040
working

0:34:52.159,0:34:55.760
and you probably have a lot of market

0:34:55.040,0:34:58.000
yet to

0:34:55.760,0:34:59.440
to cover right with the solution that's

0:34:58.000,0:35:00.560
working which is a little discount

0:34:59.440,0:35:03.040
oriented

0:35:00.560,0:35:04.960
um that makes sense i feel like people

0:35:03.040,0:35:07.680
would probably respond well though like

0:35:04.960,0:35:09.680
you're saying to like a simple like

0:35:07.680,0:35:11.359
question maybe that was kind of specific

0:35:09.680,0:35:13.440
to the industry

0:35:11.359,0:35:14.880
right like if it's the cbd products

0:35:13.440,0:35:15.520
maybe there's certain types of questions

0:35:14.880,0:35:18.079
they had

0:35:15.520,0:35:18.880
it's you know we do notice that some

0:35:18.079,0:35:20.880
brands will see

0:35:18.880,0:35:22.880
we'll use our segmentation tool and say

0:35:20.880,0:35:24.640
like i want to exclude carts that are

0:35:22.880,0:35:25.839
under my average order value

0:35:24.640,0:35:27.440
don't even send them text because

0:35:25.839,0:35:28.720
they're not worth recovering in my eyes

0:35:27.440,0:35:31.119
aka they're kind of a

0:35:28.720,0:35:32.800
not low no not low quality but a low

0:35:31.119,0:35:35.040
value customer in the funnel

0:35:32.800,0:35:36.240
and so offering them a discount i want

0:35:35.040,0:35:38.000
to know why they abandoned

0:35:36.240,0:35:40.320
that would be a scenario where we don't

0:35:38.000,0:35:42.240
even send texts because they've excluded

0:35:40.320,0:35:43.760
that whole segment of an audience

0:35:42.240,0:35:45.680
now instead of ignoring them we can

0:35:43.760,0:35:46.640
hopefully recoup enough sales where it's

0:35:45.680,0:35:48.640
profitable for us

0:35:46.640,0:35:50.320
and the brand and then also the merchant

0:35:48.640,0:35:51.040
is learning why they abandoned so that's

0:35:50.320,0:35:52.800
sort of

0:35:51.040,0:35:54.560
part of an evolution of our product and

0:35:52.800,0:35:57.040
then something else that we haven't done

0:35:54.560,0:35:57.599
and i'm sure some of our competitors are

0:35:57.040,0:35:59.440
doing this

0:35:57.599,0:36:00.880
hopefully if not then i'm glad that we

0:35:59.440,0:36:03.599
are uh is a b

0:36:00.880,0:36:05.280
testing coupon codes so right now if you

0:36:03.599,0:36:07.040
set your value of 15

0:36:05.280,0:36:08.640
and your proceed your your recovery rate

0:36:07.040,0:36:10.800
at 15 discount is

0:36:08.640,0:36:12.480
20 recovery rate that's phenomenal but

0:36:10.800,0:36:14.240
what if you offered 10

0:36:12.480,0:36:16.160
off instead of 15 and the recovery rate

0:36:14.240,0:36:17.760
was still 20 well then the perceived

0:36:16.160,0:36:19.119
value the discount is the same you may

0:36:17.760,0:36:21.119
as well save that 50

0:36:19.119,0:36:22.560
discount margin and lower the percentage

0:36:21.119,0:36:24.800
of the discount down to 10.

0:36:22.560,0:36:26.000
uh we're adding that as a feature so

0:36:24.800,0:36:27.200
that you don't have to do all the

0:36:26.000,0:36:29.119
guesswork we're going to

0:36:27.200,0:36:31.040
make suggestions and recommendations for

0:36:29.119,0:36:33.599
you and then allow us to sort of like

0:36:31.040,0:36:35.520
automatically test a 50 50 weight and

0:36:33.599,0:36:36.400
that might grow into multi-variant

0:36:35.520,0:36:37.680
testing but

0:36:36.400,0:36:39.440
you don't have a lot of stores don't

0:36:37.680,0:36:40.800
have a lot of scale to say let's let's

0:36:39.440,0:36:41.839
test free shipping versus a dollar

0:36:40.800,0:36:43.520
amount versus

0:36:41.839,0:36:44.880
percentage right like some stores are

0:36:43.520,0:36:45.200
only getting a couple hundred a month

0:36:44.880,0:36:47.200
for

0:36:45.200,0:36:48.640
tens of thousands but with scale you

0:36:47.200,0:36:49.280
could also potentially multi-variant

0:36:48.640,0:36:50.880
test

0:36:49.280,0:36:52.720
discounts so we're thinking about a lot

0:36:50.880,0:36:54.800
of stuff just also within the scope

0:36:52.720,0:36:56.960
though just abandoning cart recovery

0:36:54.800,0:36:59.280
for the most part yeah yeah yeah i like

0:36:56.960,0:37:02.160
the i like the niche focus and then so

0:36:59.280,0:37:04.800
you guys charge um your pricing model is

0:37:02.160,0:37:07.040
like a commission on recovered carts

0:37:04.800,0:37:10.320
yeah so our our plan is like it's

0:37:07.040,0:37:11.280
anywhere from 49 to a 199 a month which

0:37:10.320,0:37:13.280
might be changing i think we're

0:37:11.280,0:37:16.320
consolidating to just one plan

0:37:13.280,0:37:17.040
at 99 a month plus 5 so if you're

0:37:16.320,0:37:18.160
listening to this

0:37:17.040,0:37:19.200
and you hear that that's the price

0:37:18.160,0:37:20.480
you're gonna get if you see on the

0:37:19.200,0:37:21.520
website and it's more

0:37:20.480,0:37:23.520
just tell us and we'll give you the

0:37:21.520,0:37:25.200
price that i just said uh but yeah it's

0:37:23.520,0:37:25.839
forty nine dollars plus ten percent

0:37:25.200,0:37:28.960
commission

0:37:25.839,0:37:30.800
or 199 plus five percent um but

0:37:28.960,0:37:32.640
the thought is that we will consolidate

0:37:30.800,0:37:33.359
with just one plan for ninety nine

0:37:32.640,0:37:34.880
dollars plus

0:37:33.359,0:37:37.359
five percent and then we don't charge

0:37:34.880,0:37:39.680
you text messages or any usage costs

0:37:37.359,0:37:41.440
um which in some scenarios is is

0:37:39.680,0:37:43.359
actually not beneficial to us

0:37:41.440,0:37:44.640
but of course we want to give a great

0:37:43.359,0:37:46.079
experience to our customers but so in a

0:37:44.640,0:37:46.560
scenario that you bought something from

0:37:46.079,0:37:48.240
me

0:37:46.560,0:37:49.680
from a live recover text right because

0:37:48.240,0:37:51.359
you forgot something in your cart you

0:37:49.680,0:37:52.800
had a question about the dog food if it

0:37:51.359,0:37:54.800
was grain free

0:37:52.800,0:37:56.320
and we told you that it was grain free

0:37:54.800,0:37:56.800
and your dog could eat it so you ordered

0:37:56.320,0:37:58.560
it

0:37:56.800,0:38:00.240
uh and then it's been two days and

0:37:58.560,0:38:01.520
you're anxiously awaiting your order and

0:38:00.240,0:38:02.079
you're like where the hell is my dog

0:38:01.520,0:38:03.680
food

0:38:02.079,0:38:05.280
you don't go to the support channel you

0:38:03.680,0:38:05.920
text back because that's where you

0:38:05.280,0:38:07.680
bought it from

0:38:05.920,0:38:09.440
so in that case our reps get routed

0:38:07.680,0:38:11.280
those texts and we've already recovered

0:38:09.440,0:38:13.520
sale it's in our best interest

0:38:11.280,0:38:15.200
to to basically put the fire out right

0:38:13.520,0:38:17.599
we want to resolve this customer's issue

0:38:15.200,0:38:19.040
we now have access to the thank you page

0:38:17.599,0:38:19.599
because we sent you the link to the

0:38:19.040,0:38:21.599
checkout

0:38:19.599,0:38:22.800
which then turns it order confirmation

0:38:21.599,0:38:24.640
page which means we can grab

0:38:22.800,0:38:26.240
the shipping number also our reps can

0:38:24.640,0:38:27.359
check what the shipping and processing

0:38:26.240,0:38:28.720
times are and we can say

0:38:27.359,0:38:30.880
hey kalyn i know you're excited to get

0:38:28.720,0:38:32.560
your dog food but it's only been 36

0:38:30.880,0:38:33.680
hours and per our shipping page

0:38:32.560,0:38:35.200
processing times are

0:38:33.680,0:38:37.520
one to two days shipping is three to

0:38:35.200,0:38:38.800
five days but granted you will be

0:38:37.520,0:38:39.760
you'll have a tracking number as soon as

0:38:38.800,0:38:40.720
it's issued and if you don't hear

0:38:39.760,0:38:42.160
anything by monday

0:38:40.720,0:38:44.240
text us back and we'll get you sorted

0:38:42.160,0:38:46.400
out so we do costs on some sort of

0:38:44.240,0:38:48.640
post-purchase support and

0:38:46.400,0:38:49.599
that that helps because they don't go to

0:38:48.640,0:38:51.680
you they come to us

0:38:49.599,0:38:53.440
and we might cross on all those texts

0:38:51.680,0:38:55.119
and we you know deflect that

0:38:53.440,0:38:56.800
sort of first line of support whenever

0:38:55.119,0:38:58.320
we are the one that recovered that

0:38:56.800,0:39:00.240
i mean there's a lot of value out there

0:38:58.320,0:39:01.440
that we don't really talk about much but

0:39:00.240,0:39:02.560
when you're a customer you probably

0:39:01.440,0:39:04.240
notice it

0:39:02.560,0:39:05.920
yeah that's that's really cool and it's

0:39:04.240,0:39:07.839
like your incentives

0:39:05.920,0:39:09.040
are aligned with the merchant because

0:39:07.839,0:39:11.119
you're charging

0:39:09.040,0:39:12.320
that commission base my my email product

0:39:11.119,0:39:14.320
was actually also like

0:39:12.320,0:39:16.800
commission based and it it just makes

0:39:14.320,0:39:19.040
for like such an easy

0:39:16.800,0:39:20.320
um sale but then like you're saying on

0:39:19.040,0:39:22.560
the other hand

0:39:20.320,0:39:23.760
it might like with this idea of the of

0:39:22.560,0:39:26.720
the non-discount

0:39:23.760,0:39:28.079
uh direction it might not make as much

0:39:26.720,0:39:29.920
sense right because if you're going to

0:39:28.079,0:39:31.839
invest time into something

0:39:29.920,0:39:33.359
you want to get a return as well as

0:39:31.839,0:39:35.040
getting the customer return

0:39:33.359,0:39:36.960
that's what we've been thinking is the

0:39:35.040,0:39:38.720
intent's not as high so

0:39:36.960,0:39:40.560
i mean we might not win them back right

0:39:38.720,0:39:42.240
but at the end if it turns out to still

0:39:40.560,0:39:43.520
be profitable and we can you know grow

0:39:42.240,0:39:44.320
our market share then we'll take the

0:39:43.520,0:39:46.400
loss because

0:39:44.320,0:39:48.320
they're probably offering discounts on

0:39:46.400,0:39:49.440
another segment of customers or we

0:39:48.320,0:39:50.079
wouldn't have had them as a customer

0:39:49.440,0:39:52.800
anyway

0:39:50.079,0:39:53.359
uh yeah so yeah the usage based pricing

0:39:52.800,0:39:55.440
i think

0:39:53.359,0:39:57.440
matters makes a lot of sense for you

0:39:55.440,0:39:57.680
know automated solutions but since we're

0:39:57.440,0:40:00.000
a

0:39:57.680,0:40:02.079
fully human powered what's what's called

0:40:00.000,0:40:04.400
peer-to-peer texting platform

0:40:02.079,0:40:06.880
uh is kind of the sort of the you know

0:40:04.400,0:40:10.319
the cost structure we've stuck with

0:40:06.880,0:40:12.480
that's a really unique model um i was um

0:40:10.319,0:40:14.160
it's funny i was actually thinking like

0:40:12.480,0:40:16.880
like i think ai

0:40:14.160,0:40:18.240
is like super over hyped almost all the

0:40:16.880,0:40:19.920
time

0:40:18.240,0:40:21.599
but as i was hearing you describe the

0:40:19.920,0:40:24.000
solution and how

0:40:21.599,0:40:24.880
like a lot of times you answer questions

0:40:24.000,0:40:27.200
it's related to

0:40:24.880,0:40:28.800
faqs that are provided and stuff like

0:40:27.200,0:40:30.720
that i was imagining

0:40:28.800,0:40:33.200
how you could build a pretty simple ai

0:40:30.720,0:40:34.079
that could like ingest the faqs for a

0:40:33.200,0:40:36.079
brand

0:40:34.079,0:40:38.160
it could have some templates around

0:40:36.079,0:40:41.599
things our reps have something called

0:40:38.160,0:40:43.119
intelligent replies so whenever whenever

0:40:41.599,0:40:45.440
someone says yes i want the discount

0:40:43.119,0:40:46.560
code our reps don't have to type out and

0:40:45.440,0:40:48.720
create the code

0:40:46.560,0:40:49.839
they hit send discount code and all of a

0:40:48.720,0:40:51.839
sudden oh

0:40:49.839,0:40:53.760
nice we populated a message created an

0:40:51.839,0:40:54.880
api called a shopify created a unique

0:40:53.760,0:40:57.040
discount code

0:40:54.880,0:40:58.160
made all this messaging with an emoji

0:40:57.040,0:40:59.119
and a thank you message and all i have

0:40:58.160,0:41:02.560
to do is press yes

0:40:59.119,0:41:04.480
so like one rep one rep can handle

0:41:02.560,0:41:07.520
hundreds if not a thousand conversations

0:41:04.480,0:41:09.760
per hour really that's wild

0:41:07.520,0:41:11.200
that's really cool that's awesome i love

0:41:09.760,0:41:13.040
that you pull your phone out with

0:41:11.200,0:41:13.520
ubereats or something and uber is on the

0:41:13.040,0:41:15.200
way

0:41:13.520,0:41:16.960
if you open up your compose to respond

0:41:15.200,0:41:19.839
it's already got three replies for you

0:41:16.960,0:41:20.720
i'm on my way be right there okay so our

0:41:19.839,0:41:22.240
reps

0:41:20.720,0:41:24.000
similarly have a have some similar

0:41:22.240,0:41:26.160
things that's cool

0:41:24.000,0:41:27.359
so like like taking a step back like do

0:41:26.160,0:41:29.200
you think that

0:41:27.359,0:41:31.280
people are getting a little fatigued

0:41:29.200,0:41:34.960
with sms just in general

0:41:31.280,0:41:36.960
like i think marketers like myself and

0:41:34.960,0:41:40.079
other people ruin everything good

0:41:36.960,0:41:41.760
i think i think that if you just if the

0:41:40.079,0:41:44.400
easy way is to look at email

0:41:41.760,0:41:45.760
copy and paste your strategy over to sms

0:41:44.400,0:41:48.079
prioritize sms

0:41:45.760,0:41:50.000
over email on your home page and say wow

0:41:48.079,0:41:51.920
look how many sms phone number lists

0:41:50.000,0:41:53.839
like look how big my list is growing

0:41:51.920,0:41:55.520
well okay how fast is your email list

0:41:53.839,0:41:56.240
decaying and growth if that's one

0:41:55.520,0:41:58.720
question

0:41:56.240,0:41:59.440
two what's the ltv and the duration of

0:41:58.720,0:42:01.599
subscription

0:41:59.440,0:42:03.440
for that customer on sms do they stay

0:42:01.599,0:42:05.280
for weeks do they stay for months

0:42:03.440,0:42:06.640
do they stay for a year i know i've been

0:42:05.280,0:42:07.920
subscribed for some websites

0:42:06.640,0:42:09.839
for 12 years and they've probably

0:42:07.920,0:42:11.920
emailed a thousand times or more

0:42:09.839,0:42:12.880
at least thousands of times and i

0:42:11.920,0:42:14.480
haven't churned

0:42:12.880,0:42:16.560
no brand is ever going to text me more

0:42:14.480,0:42:19.599
than 50 times before

0:42:16.560,0:42:20.560
after five so i think i think that we

0:42:19.599,0:42:22.319
haven't

0:42:20.560,0:42:24.240
and i want sms to grow please like come

0:42:22.319,0:42:26.480
to livercover.com and use our business

0:42:24.240,0:42:28.720
but at the same time don't don't just

0:42:26.480,0:42:30.800
focus on the shiny object like

0:42:28.720,0:42:32.000
sms is a piece of the puzzle and not one

0:42:30.800,0:42:32.720
piece of the puzzle is more important

0:42:32.000,0:42:34.079
than the rest

0:42:32.720,0:42:36.240
you have to have all of them to have a

0:42:34.079,0:42:37.200
complete puzzle and email's proven and

0:42:36.240,0:42:39.119
tried and true

0:42:37.200,0:42:40.240
certain channels are not going away so

0:42:39.119,0:42:40.960
take that for what it's worth but i

0:42:40.240,0:42:42.800
don't think

0:42:40.960,0:42:44.640
sms should be your number one focus

0:42:42.800,0:42:46.960
because most of the brands that i

0:42:44.640,0:42:48.640
you know and i say most as in two i'm

0:42:46.960,0:42:50.640
invested into two men's skin care brands

0:42:48.640,0:42:54.240
and both of them probably do about 25

0:42:50.640,0:42:56.560
of their revenue from email nice

0:42:54.240,0:42:58.000
sms is not even five percent right so

0:42:56.560,0:42:59.839
right right yeah it's

0:42:58.000,0:43:01.920
interesting man email just kind of just

0:42:59.839,0:43:04.560
keeps keeps chugging through the years

0:43:01.920,0:43:07.040
and it's like the the open rates and

0:43:04.560,0:43:07.760
stuff get lower and lower but like it

0:43:07.040,0:43:09.920
still

0:43:07.760,0:43:12.319
drives a decent amount of revenue for a

0:43:09.920,0:43:14.160
lot of people um you know what you're

0:43:12.319,0:43:16.000
existing over email right like

0:43:14.160,0:43:17.440
sms you're typically expecting your

0:43:16.000,0:43:18.160
friends to talk to you like a friend or

0:43:17.440,0:43:20.240
a person

0:43:18.160,0:43:23.040
not to have messages sent to you so i

0:43:20.240,0:43:25.040
think the future of sms is maybe more in

0:43:23.040,0:43:26.960
concierge services and maybe brand

0:43:25.040,0:43:28.880
messaging and things that aren't sales

0:43:26.960,0:43:30.720
focused and i say that as a tool that's

0:43:28.880,0:43:33.920
purely sales focused but

0:43:30.720,0:43:35.359
like i i like i like getting texts from

0:43:33.920,0:43:36.079
some brands when they're done right i

0:43:35.359,0:43:37.760
don't mind it

0:43:36.079,0:43:38.960
but i don't like getting fashion nova

0:43:37.760,0:43:39.599
every day reminding me that their genes

0:43:38.960,0:43:42.640
are 40

0:43:39.599,0:43:45.520
off i'm gonna unsubscribe right yeah

0:43:42.640,0:43:46.400
i think that's really interesting like

0:43:45.520,0:43:48.000
that's one of the things i think is

0:43:46.400,0:43:49.599
super interesting about your approach of

0:43:48.000,0:43:51.680
being like a human powered

0:43:49.599,0:43:54.000
deal right because there's all sorts of

0:43:51.680,0:43:55.760
sms automation and stuff like that and

0:43:54.000,0:43:57.040
and i i mean i get so many automated

0:43:55.760,0:43:58.880
ones

0:43:57.040,0:44:00.800
but like s there's something it's like

0:43:58.880,0:44:02.880
you said people have a tendency to copy

0:44:00.800,0:44:04.480
and paste their strategy from one

0:44:02.880,0:44:06.720
technology to another

0:44:04.480,0:44:08.240
like from email to sms and there are

0:44:06.720,0:44:10.240
things about sms that are just

0:44:08.240,0:44:12.240
fundamentally different in the way

0:44:10.240,0:44:12.560
people expect communication to happen

0:44:12.240,0:44:14.880
like

0:44:12.560,0:44:16.000
you don't want to see a link in sms

0:44:14.880,0:44:17.680
unless like

0:44:16.000,0:44:19.280
you've asked for something you know what

0:44:17.680,0:44:20.000
i mean like that's what i like about

0:44:19.280,0:44:21.839
your

0:44:20.000,0:44:23.440
initial message like there's no link you

0:44:21.839,0:44:25.359
know yeah never

0:44:23.440,0:44:27.040
uh you're right i mean like if you think

0:44:25.359,0:44:28.800
about it and also that kind of goes to

0:44:27.040,0:44:30.880
the point of like the behavior with

0:44:28.800,0:44:32.480
human versus automated i totally support

0:44:30.880,0:44:32.960
automated text and i and i think that

0:44:32.480,0:44:35.520
there's a

0:44:32.960,0:44:36.480
time and place for a 100 uh but like if

0:44:35.520,0:44:37.599
i asked you

0:44:36.480,0:44:39.520
hey caitlin do you want to go get a

0:44:37.599,0:44:40.640
drink hey caitlin this is dennis from

0:44:39.520,0:44:41.839
live recovery i saw you were checking

0:44:40.640,0:44:42.400
out my website you want to go get a

0:44:41.839,0:44:44.319
drink

0:44:42.400,0:44:46.400
okay let's pretend this was a normal

0:44:44.319,0:44:47.680
conversation yo what's up man i'm

0:44:46.400,0:44:48.560
thinking of getting happy hour do you

0:44:47.680,0:44:51.760
want to join

0:44:48.560,0:44:53.839
that's at 3 30. you respond at 333

0:44:51.760,0:44:56.000
sure that sounds great where at and what

0:44:53.839,0:44:57.359
time then i don't respond until the next

0:44:56.000,0:44:58.319
day because i was waiting on a human to

0:44:57.359,0:44:59.680
get to the response

0:44:58.319,0:45:01.280
hey sorry about that kayla and i was

0:44:59.680,0:45:03.440
looking for the answer yesterday it's

0:45:01.280,0:45:05.359
the next day now but how about you know

0:45:03.440,0:45:06.880
blah blah blah you're like i don't want

0:45:05.359,0:45:09.839
to drink i wanted to be like what

0:45:06.880,0:45:10.160
when you text me yeah so like yeah i'd

0:45:09.839,0:45:12.480
live

0:45:10.160,0:45:14.240
support i think text like if you're

0:45:12.480,0:45:15.680
talking to someone and it's about a sale

0:45:14.240,0:45:17.680
you better be able to support them in

0:45:15.680,0:45:18.319
real time or else i wouldn't waste my

0:45:17.680,0:45:19.599
time

0:45:18.319,0:45:21.520
right yeah i'm not saying that your

0:45:19.599,0:45:23.200
first message needs to be human

0:45:21.520,0:45:24.880
right ours is but like an attentive

0:45:23.200,0:45:27.280
postscript whoever

0:45:24.880,0:45:28.720
they they should have in my opinion

0:45:27.280,0:45:29.920
something like us to jump in when there

0:45:28.720,0:45:31.520
is a response and i know that they have

0:45:29.920,0:45:32.000
tools and integrations with gorgeous and

0:45:31.520,0:45:33.119
and

0:45:32.000,0:45:34.880
other help desk solutions that are

0:45:33.119,0:45:35.280
trying to solve for this and i love that

0:45:34.880,0:45:38.160
uh

0:45:35.280,0:45:39.520
i support all that i want more of that

0:45:38.160,0:45:41.680
yeah and you guys have like a three

0:45:39.520,0:45:43.280
minute response time something like that

0:45:41.680,0:45:45.359
yeah during from eight in the morning

0:45:43.280,0:45:46.880
until nine pm uh it shouldn't ever be

0:45:45.359,0:45:47.200
more than three minutes that you get a

0:45:46.880,0:45:50.079
wait

0:45:47.200,0:45:50.880
for a response from one of our reps nice

0:45:50.079,0:45:54.960
nice

0:45:50.880,0:45:58.560
what um like what brands do you think do

0:45:54.960,0:46:00.400
sms in terms of uh marketing but also in

0:45:58.560,0:46:00.960
terms of like community building in

0:46:00.400,0:46:04.160
general

0:46:00.960,0:46:06.319
engagement in general like uh

0:46:04.160,0:46:07.200
which brands like do you think do that

0:46:06.319,0:46:08.640
the best

0:46:07.200,0:46:10.880
and what are some of the things they do

0:46:08.640,0:46:13.440
that are that are interesting

0:46:10.880,0:46:14.079
so i have a hard time really thinking

0:46:13.440,0:46:16.000
that any

0:46:14.079,0:46:17.839
customer truly thinks that they're part

0:46:16.000,0:46:18.880
of a community because they get texts

0:46:17.839,0:46:20.560
from a brand

0:46:18.880,0:46:22.560
i don't think that i ever pull out my

0:46:20.560,0:46:24.720
phone oh my god this is the

0:46:22.560,0:46:26.720
coolest tech i've ever gone for my brand

0:46:24.720,0:46:30.480
i'm gonna go talk about it

0:46:26.720,0:46:31.599
i'm in the community i've never once

0:46:30.480,0:46:33.920
felt that way have i thought

0:46:31.599,0:46:35.599
that was a pretty good crafted text sure

0:46:33.920,0:46:37.920
like i can think of some examples

0:46:35.599,0:46:39.359
once one is florence by mills and this

0:46:37.920,0:46:40.079
is a mutual customer that uses live

0:46:39.359,0:46:41.920
recover

0:46:40.079,0:46:43.680
or or did use liver cover or something i

0:46:41.920,0:46:44.560
don't remember there it's a millie bobby

0:46:43.680,0:46:46.079
brown

0:46:44.560,0:46:47.760
makeup brand and they use a tentative as

0:46:46.079,0:46:49.040
well and this was an intended message

0:46:47.760,0:46:50.400
for all that's worth i'm not talking

0:46:49.040,0:46:51.040
about me i'm talking about another

0:46:50.400,0:46:53.119
solution

0:46:51.040,0:46:55.200
uh but they sent uh you know video

0:46:53.119,0:46:57.359
updates from the founder who's like a 16

0:46:55.200,0:46:59.200
or 17 year old celebrity actress

0:46:57.359,0:47:00.560
just talking about her using the product

0:46:59.200,0:47:03.040
putting on her face telling everybody

0:47:00.560,0:47:05.760
how thankful she is for their support

0:47:03.040,0:47:06.960
no call to action no link no go buy my

0:47:05.760,0:47:08.240
this buy my bat

0:47:06.960,0:47:10.000
and i'm like to me that stands out

0:47:08.240,0:47:13.440
because you just wasted like are not

0:47:10.000,0:47:14.400
wasted but spent maybe thousands if not

0:47:13.440,0:47:16.400
even in the

0:47:14.400,0:47:17.680
you know five ten thousand dollars to

0:47:16.400,0:47:18.800
send this message out to a

0:47:17.680,0:47:20.640
couple hundred thousand people even

0:47:18.800,0:47:22.240
maybe a million people right i'm sure

0:47:20.640,0:47:23.359
they organically now went to your brand

0:47:22.240,0:47:24.400
and thought wow i just got a thoughtful

0:47:23.359,0:47:26.240
message from the founder

0:47:24.400,0:47:28.079
i think that that's a good way to go

0:47:26.240,0:47:28.640
about it but do i think that brands are

0:47:28.079,0:47:31.599
like

0:47:28.640,0:47:32.960
hey text me and we'll give you this or

0:47:31.599,0:47:34.880
that it just kind of seems like

0:47:32.960,0:47:36.720
like novelty like we're just trying to

0:47:34.880,0:47:38.880
force someone to use sms just to say

0:47:36.720,0:47:41.440
we're using sms and there's no real

0:47:38.880,0:47:42.880
benefit for the customer right like to

0:47:41.440,0:47:44.800
my i don't think i'm a part of a

0:47:42.880,0:47:46.240
community because i read emails unless

0:47:44.800,0:47:47.520
i'm paying for a newsletter and even

0:47:46.240,0:47:48.960
then i'm a customer i'm not a part of

0:47:47.520,0:47:49.920
the community unless i go on twitter and

0:47:48.960,0:47:52.480
i talk about it

0:47:49.920,0:47:53.280
so i think i don't know do i think it's

0:47:52.480,0:47:55.200
funny like

0:47:53.280,0:47:56.880
brands that are cool enough to have a

0:47:55.200,0:47:58.800
sms community

0:47:56.880,0:48:01.280
i'm one of these people like i i'm i

0:47:58.800,0:48:02.720
like disable all my sms's unless unless

0:48:01.280,0:48:04.960
somebody's in my contacts and like

0:48:02.720,0:48:06.240
favorited like i just it's just

0:48:04.960,0:48:09.200
it's too much but it's funny because

0:48:06.240,0:48:09.520
like i'm like a garyvee fan and i'll go

0:48:09.200,0:48:11.520
on

0:48:09.520,0:48:13.280
in and out of like like looking at his

0:48:11.520,0:48:14.640
content i haven't seen it in a while but

0:48:13.280,0:48:16.800
like i joined his

0:48:14.640,0:48:18.480
text just to check it out for the

0:48:16.800,0:48:20.400
novelty but after like three of them i

0:48:18.480,0:48:20.800
was like yeah i just said i don't need

0:48:20.400,0:48:24.480
that

0:48:20.800,0:48:26.559
i don't need this right um yeah

0:48:24.480,0:48:27.839
yeah yeah yeah literally yeah obviously

0:48:26.559,0:48:30.480
he's pushing it

0:48:27.839,0:48:31.440
yeah um and it probably is successful

0:48:30.480,0:48:34.559
like but i'm just

0:48:31.440,0:48:37.839
i mean for me it it doesn't but like

0:48:34.559,0:48:38.480
it's email it's pretending to say sms is

0:48:37.839,0:48:39.920
not it's

0:48:38.480,0:48:41.359
it's sms it's not email but we're

0:48:39.920,0:48:43.760
treating it the exact same way but it's

0:48:41.359,0:48:45.839
packaged in sms so look how cool this is

0:48:43.760,0:48:47.280
that doesn't have to lead by action not

0:48:45.839,0:48:48.240
just by talking about it being different

0:48:47.280,0:48:50.319
yeah

0:48:48.240,0:48:52.000
have you ever thought about starting a

0:48:50.319,0:48:54.000
brand yourself because you're like a

0:48:52.000,0:48:56.400
pretty fashionable dude

0:48:54.000,0:48:57.920
um and obviously you're building a tech

0:48:56.400,0:48:58.880
solution but i don't know i just

0:48:57.920,0:49:01.520
occurred to me like

0:48:58.880,0:49:02.640
not a clothing brand per se i my first

0:49:01.520,0:49:05.520
company ever

0:49:02.640,0:49:06.000
was a t-shirt hoodie uh and glasses

0:49:05.520,0:49:08.480
brand

0:49:06.000,0:49:10.160
on myspace that's right uh out in

0:49:08.480,0:49:11.280
ecommerce i actually started out when

0:49:10.160,0:49:14.160
wordpress was

0:49:11.280,0:49:15.599
brand new and paypal had their first buy

0:49:14.160,0:49:16.480
button that's when i started in

0:49:15.599,0:49:18.079
e-commerce

0:49:16.480,0:49:19.599
dude that's you've been in the game like

0:49:18.079,0:49:22.559
you're only 31 but you've been in the

0:49:19.599,0:49:25.119
game like you know about irc

0:49:22.559,0:49:26.720
yeah yeah of course i mean but i've been

0:49:25.119,0:49:28.559
through a wordpress since the day it

0:49:26.720,0:49:30.160
launched i used to use scissors

0:49:28.559,0:49:32.559
phone calls whenever you could skype a

0:49:30.160,0:49:34.559
landline and do nasty [ __ ]

0:49:32.559,0:49:35.920
i mean yeah 31 but i've been on the

0:49:34.559,0:49:39.760
internet for more than half my life

0:49:35.920,0:49:42.319
probably 75. um right

0:49:39.760,0:49:43.359
but yeah i mean uh i got i just had a

0:49:42.319,0:49:44.559
brain fart so i forgot what we were

0:49:43.359,0:49:45.839
talking about yeah i don't know what uh

0:49:44.559,0:49:47.440
we were talking about oh yeah starting a

0:49:45.839,0:49:49.359
brand oh so you're so you did the

0:49:47.440,0:49:51.119
the shirt thing you have some so i

0:49:49.359,0:49:52.960
invested in in a men's skincare brand

0:49:51.119,0:49:55.200
called disco that's kind of like

0:49:52.960,0:49:56.800
uh lotion an exfoliator and a cleanser

0:49:55.200,0:49:57.680
and i invested in a men's makeup brand

0:49:56.800,0:50:00.559
called strix

0:49:57.680,0:50:00.960
i don't really but there it is yes they

0:50:00.559,0:50:02.720
have

0:50:00.960,0:50:04.480
five thousand stores the growing thing

0:50:02.720,0:50:06.880
right men's makeup it's happened like

0:50:04.480,0:50:08.319
i mean it's happening or a picture an

0:50:06.880,0:50:09.920
acne blemish and if you want to cover up

0:50:08.319,0:50:11.359
real quick for a headshot your linkedin

0:50:09.920,0:50:12.319
picture a company outing whatever it's

0:50:11.359,0:50:13.599
understandable i don't think there's

0:50:12.319,0:50:16.400
anything to be embarrassed about

0:50:13.599,0:50:17.520
um but uh for starting my own brand you

0:50:16.400,0:50:19.280
know i used to run

0:50:17.520,0:50:20.960
products on facebook and i wouldn't call

0:50:19.280,0:50:24.160
any of them brands like i

0:50:20.960,0:50:27.280
i shamelessly would buy them into any

0:50:24.160,0:50:27.599
type of would i would i mean even i have

0:50:27.280,0:50:30.559
10

0:50:27.599,0:50:32.400
000 wallets in my garage right now uh so

0:50:30.559,0:50:32.880
i mean i sell products online here and

0:50:32.400,0:50:34.800
there

0:50:32.880,0:50:36.480
right but for the most part i don't

0:50:34.800,0:50:37.920
start i hadn't started i never started

0:50:36.480,0:50:40.160
brands in the past i'd

0:50:37.920,0:50:41.359
pop up a store do a million in revenue

0:50:40.160,0:50:42.400
get some margins run a bunch of

0:50:41.359,0:50:44.720
arbitrage

0:50:42.400,0:50:46.240
yeah take it down uh which was dumb

0:50:44.720,0:50:47.119
because in the long term if i had kept

0:50:46.240,0:50:47.680
them they probably would have been worth

0:50:47.119,0:50:50.079
something

0:50:47.680,0:50:51.920
but moving forward like probably after

0:50:50.079,0:50:53.119
live recovery or even if we get the

0:50:51.920,0:50:54.480
team in place where i can sort of

0:50:53.119,0:50:57.119
delegate a little more i really think

0:50:54.480,0:51:01.440
i'm going to do a dtc tattoo

0:50:57.119,0:51:03.040
product that's a cool idea

0:51:01.440,0:51:04.880
yeah and i have both my legs tattooed

0:51:03.040,0:51:07.839
like from my ankles all the way up to my

0:51:04.880,0:51:09.040
waist and so yeah there's no product for

0:51:07.839,0:51:10.960
direct-to-consumer

0:51:09.040,0:51:12.160
tattoo you know tattoo owners if you

0:51:10.960,0:51:13.119
will or people who have tattoos so i

0:51:12.160,0:51:16.400
want to do a lotion

0:51:13.119,0:51:18.720
a numbing cream great idea

0:51:16.400,0:51:20.160
so was that like is that like

0:51:18.720,0:51:22.800
maintenance i don't know too much about

0:51:20.160,0:51:25.200
tattoos although i'm thinking i'm 39

0:51:22.800,0:51:27.200
for my 40th i might if i can get a

0:51:25.200,0:51:28.960
six-pack going i might go nuts and get

0:51:27.200,0:51:31.440
like a sleeve or something like that

0:51:28.960,0:51:32.640
so i'll have to oh i have to talk to you

0:51:31.440,0:51:34.400
about it but

0:51:32.640,0:51:36.319
um i want to maintain the color right

0:51:34.400,0:51:37.760
and so by using lotion

0:51:36.319,0:51:38.800
obviously there could be some special

0:51:37.760,0:51:40.240
formulation that makes it a little

0:51:38.800,0:51:41.839
better for ink and

0:51:40.240,0:51:43.280
longevity but for the most part

0:51:41.839,0:51:44.319
hydrating lotion there's not there's

0:51:43.280,0:51:45.280
already a lot of companies out there

0:51:44.319,0:51:46.800
that have done that well

0:51:45.280,0:51:48.480
so it's like the formulation needs to be

0:51:46.800,0:51:49.280
spent a ton of money on just great

0:51:48.480,0:51:50.640
branding

0:51:49.280,0:51:52.079
a founder and people who understand

0:51:50.640,0:51:53.040
tattoo culture and then just the

0:51:52.079,0:51:55.359
distribution that's

0:51:53.040,0:51:57.359
all this is a great idea might be it's

0:51:55.359,0:51:59.359
nice

0:51:57.359,0:52:00.400
it's so funny man because like i live in

0:51:59.359,0:52:02.480
like a suburban

0:52:00.400,0:52:04.880
like community with kids and i'll go to

0:52:02.480,0:52:06.319
the pool and like half of the parents

0:52:04.880,0:52:08.720
have tattoos

0:52:06.319,0:52:10.880
right 10 years ago yeah kind of like uh

0:52:08.720,0:52:12.319
that person might not be trustworthy in

0:52:10.880,0:52:15.359
some weird way now it's like oh that's

0:52:12.319,0:52:15.359
yeah paper dennis

0:52:16.079,0:52:19.440
yes that's correct i live here i also

0:52:17.839,0:52:22.559
have tattoos

0:52:19.440,0:52:25.920
yeah exactly exactly

0:52:22.559,0:52:27.680
but anyway yeah yeah yeah yeah austin

0:52:25.920,0:52:28.960
yeah welcome to austin how do you like

0:52:27.680,0:52:29.839
your neighborhood man you're in a pretty

0:52:28.960,0:52:32.160
cool spot

0:52:29.839,0:52:33.599
golden creek is lovely man i see so many

0:52:32.160,0:52:35.200
people walking around all day

0:52:33.599,0:52:36.800
my neighbor's a venture capitalist the

0:52:35.200,0:52:38.079
other one works at salesforce

0:52:36.800,0:52:40.160
you know the other person's been there

0:52:38.079,0:52:42.160
for 40 years and drinks uh

0:52:40.160,0:52:43.520
two six packs a day of lone star and

0:52:42.160,0:52:46.000
just walks around all day

0:52:43.520,0:52:46.800
i'm like geez the rock draft is amazing

0:52:46.000,0:52:49.119
and the people

0:52:46.800,0:52:51.040
are cool it's it's new character with

0:52:49.119,0:52:52.640
also kind of you know cherishing the old

0:52:51.040,0:52:53.920
and hopefully not flipping

0:52:52.640,0:52:55.200
and gentrifying the whole neighborhood

0:52:53.920,0:52:55.680
because there's a lot of characters like

0:52:55.200,0:52:57.119
og

0:52:55.680,0:53:00.559
and so right yeah i think i think

0:52:57.119,0:53:02.480
voldemort is awesome

0:53:00.559,0:53:04.319
i'm up north yeah i'm up in georgetown

0:53:02.480,0:53:07.040
up in the up in the sticks but i

0:53:04.319,0:53:08.079
but uh but we like it out here yeah yeah

0:53:07.040,0:53:10.640
dear ikea

0:53:08.079,0:53:13.280
dude at p like people love like you talk

0:53:10.640,0:53:13.839
about brands like people love ikea

0:53:13.280,0:53:15.920
people

0:53:13.839,0:53:17.440
yeah swedish and he also know that they

0:53:15.920,0:53:19.440
actually paid no taxes because the

0:53:17.440,0:53:21.760
founder was a master finesser

0:53:19.440,0:53:24.160
and really yeah it's set up as a charity

0:53:21.760,0:53:25.119
a design charity and the retail stores

0:53:24.160,0:53:27.200
lease the

0:53:25.119,0:53:28.720
equipment from the charity and they

0:53:27.200,0:53:30.800
donate the money to the charity

0:53:28.720,0:53:32.319
they never pay tax so if anybody is

0:53:30.800,0:53:33.760
talking about hating jeff bezos and

0:53:32.319,0:53:36.400
amazon go look at ikea

0:53:33.760,0:53:38.240
they paid that's wild no tax for the

0:53:36.400,0:53:40.400
last 20 30 years or something crazy

0:53:38.240,0:53:41.520
but the founder but do they do they

0:53:40.400,0:53:43.119
actually donate

0:53:41.520,0:53:44.480
a lot of like oh that's just the

0:53:43.119,0:53:46.559
structure of their company they're a

0:53:44.480,0:53:48.160
design company that leases their designs

0:53:46.559,0:53:49.760
to a retail store and the retail store

0:53:48.160,0:53:52.160
pays them a 99

0:53:49.760,0:53:53.839
profit to lease the designs and pays one

0:53:52.160,0:53:54.720
percent on that revenue as revenue from

0:53:53.839,0:53:57.440
ikea

0:53:54.720,0:53:58.400
it's crazy look up ikea founder four

0:53:57.440,0:54:00.480
billion dollar

0:53:58.400,0:54:01.839
scheme or something it's insane it's

0:54:00.480,0:54:04.160
such a tax scheme

0:54:01.839,0:54:05.280
dude um not an american company right

0:54:04.160,0:54:05.760
they're based they're based in sweden

0:54:05.280,0:54:07.359
right

0:54:05.760,0:54:11.359
died a couple years ago but yeah that

0:54:07.359,0:54:14.880
guy was legendary for sure

0:54:11.359,0:54:17.760
that's bonkers man anyway

0:54:14.880,0:54:18.400
well good to talk to a local keep austin

0:54:17.760,0:54:21.119
weird

0:54:18.400,0:54:22.640
austinite yeah man yeah it's a lot of

0:54:21.119,0:54:24.000
fun dude i appreciate it man where's the

0:54:22.640,0:54:26.640
uh where's the best place for

0:54:24.000,0:54:27.920
people to find you online unfortunately

0:54:26.640,0:54:29.040
if you want to see me rant on twitter

0:54:27.920,0:54:29.920
that's probably the place i spend the

0:54:29.040,0:54:31.520
most time and

0:54:29.920,0:54:32.960
things i regret saying things so

0:54:31.520,0:54:34.000
probably the most unfiltered and best

0:54:32.960,0:54:37.040
place and then

0:54:34.000,0:54:39.040
uh yeah at dennishegstad on twitter if

0:54:37.040,0:54:41.040
you can't spell it i'm sorry

0:54:39.040,0:54:42.400
then liverecover.com is the business if

0:54:41.040,0:54:42.960
you have an e-commerce business we'd

0:54:42.400,0:54:49.440
love to

0:54:42.960,0:54:49.440
give you 500 and free recovered sales