Sean McGinnis leads the marketing, eCommerce & customer experience functions at KURU Footwear.
KURU is a direct-to-consumer shoe brand with patented technology built in to eliminate foot pain.
They are on a mission to eliminate foot pain around the globe.
0:00:00.080,0:00:03.840 one of the things that we really really 0:00:01.520,0:00:05.520 like is if you interact at all with one 0:00:03.840,0:00:07.200 of our team members 0:00:05.520,0:00:08.800 and go into any other channel and it 0:00:07.200,0:00:10.320 recognizes you it tries to connect you 0:00:08.800,0:00:11.840 with that same team member so you now 0:00:10.320,0:00:15.120 have almost more of a one-to-one 0:00:11.840,0:00:31.840 sort of a hero um to be able to deal 0:00:15.120,0:00:31.840 with that specific person 0:00:31.920,0:00:35.520 sean how you doing sir good how are you 0:00:34.880,0:00:37.360 doing well 0:00:35.520,0:00:39.040 doing well uh we were just having a 0:00:37.360,0:00:42.399 little pre-recording 0:00:39.040,0:00:45.360 uh chatter and it felt like the podcast 0:00:42.399,0:00:46.879 already so i wanted to jump in 0:00:45.360,0:00:48.399 it was like world fraternity brothers or 0:00:46.879,0:00:51.520 something yeah yeah 0:00:48.399,0:00:52.960 um so how you're out in salt lake um we 0:00:51.520,0:00:54.399 were talking about this as well a little 0:00:52.960,0:00:56.399 bit beforehand but 0:00:54.399,0:00:57.680 i hear that silicon valley is kind of 0:00:56.399,0:01:01.039 fleeing to 0:00:57.680,0:01:01.039 utah in droves 0:01:02.719,0:01:06.080 a little bit you know we're getting 0:01:04.640,0:01:06.640 every now and then you hear a story 0:01:06.080,0:01:08.880 about 0:01:06.640,0:01:10.240 um some senior person or a team or a 0:01:08.880,0:01:11.680 company you know coming and sort of 0:01:10.240,0:01:14.000 putting a 0:01:11.680,0:01:15.840 building an outpost out here i mean they 0:01:14.000,0:01:16.960 the team that's it uh 0:01:15.840,0:01:18.640 the team but there's a number of 0:01:16.960,0:01:20.560 businesses that they like to refer to 0:01:18.640,0:01:22.640 themselves as silicon slopes right 0:01:20.560,0:01:24.479 so you're in the park city area you're 0:01:22.640,0:01:26.320 down in utah county there's a lot of 0:01:24.479,0:01:28.000 really cool b2b sass companies that are 0:01:26.320,0:01:30.880 based down there 0:01:28.000,0:01:32.479 companies like weave and um domo and so 0:01:30.880,0:01:34.079 many others you know really all started 0:01:32.479,0:01:35.920 with the omniture group that got bought 0:01:34.079,0:01:37.439 up by adobe so 0:01:35.920,0:01:39.040 it's a fun place to do business i mean 0:01:37.439,0:01:40.960 there's a lot of talent here 0:01:39.040,0:01:43.520 not not unlike austin right i mean it's 0:01:40.960,0:01:44.079 very you get these pockets of talent and 0:01:43.520,0:01:46.159 special 0:01:44.079,0:01:47.600 specialized expertise that you can 0:01:46.159,0:01:50.159 really sort of tap into as a 0:01:47.600,0:01:50.799 yeah as an employer yeah yeah i was i've 0:01:50.159,0:01:53.119 had a few 0:01:50.799,0:01:55.119 um companies in based in utah that we're 0:01:53.119,0:01:56.079 looking to hire and a couple times i was 0:01:55.119,0:01:58.320 looking for like 0:01:56.079,0:01:59.759 php developers in utah i was like it was 0:01:58.320,0:02:00.560 like the first time i did that 0:01:59.759,0:02:04.159 particular 0:02:00.560,0:02:04.159 kind of search i was like holy cow 0:02:04.399,0:02:09.200 it's like i i stumbled upon that hot 0:02:06.840,0:02:09.920 spot we're a well-kept secret i mean for 0:02:09.200,0:02:12.239 sure i mean 0:02:09.920,0:02:14.560 if you uh pay attention to those lists 0:02:12.239,0:02:17.280 of best places to work in the country or 0:02:14.560,0:02:18.959 um as places to do business even salt 0:02:17.280,0:02:20.480 lake usually pops up on those because 0:02:18.959,0:02:22.239 i mean it's a great work-life balance 0:02:20.480,0:02:23.520 there's so much to do outside if you're 0:02:22.239,0:02:25.040 a ski bomber 0:02:23.520,0:02:26.160 you love the outdoors you love to hike 0:02:25.040,0:02:26.800 you love the mountains it's a great 0:02:26.160,0:02:30.080 place to be 0:02:26.800,0:02:33.200 yeah yeah so kuru footwear uh 0:02:30.080,0:02:34.959 is a direct consumer shoe brand uh with 0:02:33.200,0:02:38.080 some patented technology to 0:02:34.959,0:02:39.280 eliminate foot pain um i was actually 0:02:38.080,0:02:40.879 born with club foot 0:02:39.280,0:02:42.640 uh believe it or not had a couple of 0:02:40.879,0:02:45.840 surgeries when i was a kid and 0:02:42.640,0:02:47.280 my feet are mostly fine um i have a 0:02:45.840,0:02:50.160 couple of cool scars but 0:02:47.280,0:02:52.160 um but so i was you know but my feet do 0:02:50.160,0:02:52.959 get kind of fatigued i think faster than 0:02:52.160,0:02:55.040 normal 0:02:52.959,0:02:56.160 so i was kind of interested in learning 0:02:55.040,0:03:00.239 a little bit more about 0:02:56.160,0:03:03.040 you know the technology yeah so our ceo 0:03:00.239,0:03:04.720 um started the business it actually got 0:03:03.040,0:03:06.640 founded on the back of a business 0:03:04.720,0:03:08.480 plan contest at the university of utah 0:03:06.640,0:03:10.159 back in 2006. so 0:03:08.480,0:03:11.920 the company proper yeah the company 0:03:10.159,0:03:13.599 proper started in 08 0:03:11.920,0:03:15.360 and there's an entrepreneurial institute 0:03:13.599,0:03:17.280 that's hooked into the university of 0:03:15.360,0:03:18.239 utah called the lassonde entrepreneurial 0:03:17.280,0:03:20.000 institute and 0:03:18.239,0:03:22.000 our ceo brett rasmussen entered a 0:03:20.000,0:03:23.519 business plan contest back in 06 0:03:22.000,0:03:25.200 kind of through his brother his brother 0:03:23.519,0:03:28.159 was still a you uh 0:03:25.200,0:03:29.840 student and um brett partnered with his 0:03:28.159,0:03:32.879 brother and another couple of guys 0:03:29.840,0:03:35.840 and they actually won the grand prize um 0:03:32.879,0:03:38.000 in 2006 so that he took that money um 0:03:35.840,0:03:40.720 raised a little bit of extra funds 0:03:38.000,0:03:42.239 um and and went off and started doing 0:03:40.720,0:03:42.879 research and started doing work and 0:03:42.239,0:03:45.280 started 0:03:42.879,0:03:46.480 kind of trying to apply he always wanted 0:03:45.280,0:03:49.040 to be an entrepreneur 0:03:46.480,0:03:51.360 and um part of the the fun little 0:03:49.040,0:03:53.599 backstory of the business is we have 0:03:51.360,0:03:54.400 drawings from when he was in like fifth 0:03:53.599,0:03:56.640 grade 0:03:54.400,0:03:58.080 really of a shoe catalog with 0:03:56.640,0:03:59.920 strikethrough pricing 0:03:58.080,0:04:01.760 yeah i mean it's uh sort of part of the 0:03:59.920,0:04:04.159 the the old company narrative so he was 0:04:01.760,0:04:06.159 probably 13 or 14 when he was pencil 0:04:04.159,0:04:07.760 sketches on lined paper you know and his 0:04:06.159,0:04:09.680 mom saved everything 0:04:07.760,0:04:11.599 so it's amazing that we have this and he 0:04:09.680,0:04:15.280 was in his shoes specifically 0:04:11.599,0:04:17.199 at that time yeah no kidding yep 0:04:15.280,0:04:19.199 shoes was into shoes always been a big 0:04:17.199,0:04:22.880 sort of a shoe fan 0:04:19.199,0:04:25.120 um wanted to start a company 0:04:22.880,0:04:26.479 it never really had any intention of 0:04:25.120,0:04:27.120 building something that would eliminate 0:04:26.479,0:04:28.560 foot pain 0:04:27.120,0:04:29.919 um or that even sort of tried to 0:04:28.560,0:04:31.360 eliminate foot pain he just wanted to 0:04:29.919,0:04:32.960 build something that was at the sort of 0:04:31.360,0:04:35.440 locus of 0:04:32.960,0:04:36.160 sort of the outdoor lifestyle and the 0:04:35.440,0:04:38.080 urban 0:04:36.160,0:04:40.000 um that was kind of up and coming at the 0:04:38.080,0:04:43.840 time in the 2000s 0:04:40.000,0:04:45.759 um but uh trying to apply and come up 0:04:43.840,0:04:47.680 with something that that he could patent 0:04:45.759,0:04:48.960 he thought the the basic thesis of the 0:04:47.680,0:04:50.960 business was 0:04:48.960,0:04:52.479 what do we do if we were to take some of 0:04:50.960,0:04:54.400 the materials and shapes that you can 0:04:52.479,0:04:56.320 typically buy in aftermarket inserts and 0:04:54.400,0:04:57.600 build it directly into the shoe like why 0:04:56.320,0:04:59.040 do i have to buy a pair of shoes and 0:04:57.600,0:05:01.919 then go buy a 150 0:04:59.040,0:05:03.520 pair of orthotic inserts right right if 0:05:01.919,0:05:05.199 that makes it more comfortable for 0:05:03.520,0:05:07.919 people what if i built it in 0:05:05.199,0:05:09.280 and so that uh if you think about our 0:05:07.919,0:05:11.199 technology the way i like to explain it 0:05:09.280,0:05:14.000 it is um 0:05:11.199,0:05:15.440 effectively it's kind of a proprietary 0:05:14.000,0:05:17.120 patented technology 0:05:15.440,0:05:18.960 a very hard sort of thermal plastic 0:05:17.120,0:05:20.320 that's almost in the shape of like a 0:05:18.960,0:05:22.560 larger mouth guard 0:05:20.320,0:05:24.160 but it goes down into the actual midsole 0:05:22.560,0:05:27.120 and so when your heel 0:05:24.160,0:05:29.759 puts pressure on it it dynamically 0:05:27.120,0:05:31.600 reacts and cups the the heel 0:05:29.759,0:05:33.680 if you think about your foot or anyone's 0:05:31.600,0:05:34.400 foot you know underneath that heel bone 0:05:33.680,0:05:36.800 there's about an 0:05:34.400,0:05:38.240 inch of fat that's called the fat pad 0:05:36.800,0:05:38.560 it's nature's way of cushioning your 0:05:38.240,0:05:40.800 foot 0:05:38.560,0:05:42.320 right before we were invented shoes we 0:05:40.800,0:05:43.440 were all walking barefoot on this on 0:05:42.320,0:05:45.039 this earth 0:05:43.440,0:05:46.560 and that was the protection that we 0:05:45.039,0:05:48.479 always had and so 0:05:46.560,0:05:50.639 his big thesis was what if we just found 0:05:48.479,0:05:53.120 a way to cradle that and to protect it 0:05:50.639,0:05:54.560 um and to and to actually build a shoe 0:05:53.120,0:05:56.400 that's in the shape 0:05:54.560,0:05:58.400 the same shape as a foot think about you 0:05:56.400,0:06:00.319 know our feet are very round things 0:05:58.400,0:06:02.639 and every shoe you buy is flat on the 0:06:00.319,0:06:03.919 inside right and every piece of ground 0:06:02.639,0:06:06.560 that we walk on is pretty 0:06:03.919,0:06:08.160 traditionally flat right now think about 0:06:06.560,0:06:09.600 every sport that you know of where a 0:06:08.160,0:06:11.280 ball comes in contact with something 0:06:09.600,0:06:12.240 flat i'm a golfer so i use that as an 0:06:11.280,0:06:14.319 example 0:06:12.240,0:06:16.000 you hit a golf ball with a driver and 0:06:14.319,0:06:16.880 which loses out the driver of the golf 0:06:16.000,0:06:18.319 ball right 0:06:16.880,0:06:20.800 same thing for tennis same thing for 0:06:18.319,0:06:22.240 baseball every single time a sphere 0:06:20.800,0:06:24.000 uh comes in contact with something 0:06:22.240,0:06:25.840 that's that's stable and flat 0:06:24.000,0:06:27.199 the sphere loses it deforms right it 0:06:25.840,0:06:28.800 depends yeah 0:06:27.199,0:06:30.400 and the same thing happens over millions 0:06:28.800,0:06:31.919 of steps in our lifetime 0:06:30.400,0:06:33.440 you know the fat pad starts to break 0:06:31.919,0:06:34.000 down it starts to compress it gives you 0:06:33.440,0:06:35.680 less and less 0:06:34.000,0:06:37.360 protection interesting and so this 0:06:35.680,0:06:39.280 technology is really designed to just 0:06:37.360,0:06:42.000 try and cradle and protect your 0:06:39.280,0:06:43.600 your heel and we built in other things 0:06:42.000,0:06:44.160 around as well so we tend to do a 0:06:43.600,0:06:46.800 generous 0:06:44.160,0:06:48.000 um forefoot um you know i'm a guy who 0:06:46.800,0:06:49.840 wears a 0:06:48.000,0:06:51.120 4e in everyone else's shoes and i can 0:06:49.840,0:06:52.960 actually fit in in 0:06:51.120,0:06:54.240 some of our mediums pretty comfortably 0:06:52.960,0:06:55.840 so we just give you 0:06:54.240,0:06:57.680 give your toes lots of room to sort of 0:06:55.840,0:06:59.039 spread out and put your body in a 0:06:57.680,0:07:00.000 position to heal itself 0:06:59.039,0:07:01.840 you know we don't claim that we 0:07:00.000,0:07:03.199 eliminate that we solve foot pain 0:07:01.840,0:07:04.479 directly we just put your body in the 0:07:03.199,0:07:05.039 right place to be able to do it for 0:07:04.479,0:07:06.800 yourself 0:07:05.039,0:07:08.560 right that's super interesting it's cool 0:07:06.800,0:07:10.560 it's a cool brand yeah so we he launched 0:07:08.560,0:07:12.479 it in 2008 0:07:10.560,0:07:14.080 um the original plan was to be super 0:07:12.479,0:07:17.280 traditional go through retail 0:07:14.080,0:07:18.800 and um lehman brothers declares 0:07:17.280,0:07:20.319 bankruptcy every retailer and their 0:07:18.800,0:07:21.759 brother starts pulling orders and he's 0:07:20.319,0:07:22.960 staring at a mountain of inventory he's 0:07:21.759,0:07:25.280 like what am i going to do 0:07:22.960,0:07:25.280 you know 0:07:26.800,0:07:30.560 wrote his own first website in drupal 0:07:29.199,0:07:34.080 nice um 0:07:30.560,0:07:36.080 started selling you know in 2008 10 0:07:34.080,0:07:37.440 10 orders a week a month like whatever 0:07:36.080,0:07:37.840 you know whatever he could get his hands 0:07:37.440,0:07:40.479 on 0:07:37.840,0:07:42.240 yeah it was a pure liquidation strategy 0:07:40.479,0:07:43.599 originally and eventually here we are 12 0:07:42.240,0:07:46.000 years later obviously that wasn't 0:07:43.599,0:07:47.840 the way we wound up so that's incredible 0:07:46.000,0:07:50.400 yeah it's like when you know 0:07:47.840,0:07:51.520 when those economic shocks hit you know 0:07:50.400,0:07:53.919 it's like 0:07:51.520,0:07:54.639 some people are crushed by them and some 0:07:53.919,0:07:57.199 people just 0:07:54.639,0:07:58.479 figure it out you know yeah and uh 0:07:57.199,0:08:00.240 that's that's a great story you 0:07:58.479,0:08:01.199 mentioned that you started in drupal 0:08:00.240,0:08:03.360 i believe you mentioned you're on 0:08:01.199,0:08:05.840 magento now um yeah 0:08:03.360,0:08:07.840 i saw a tweet where you were uh somebody 0:08:05.840,0:08:08.879 was launching a feature in shopify 0:08:07.840,0:08:11.360 you're like wow you get 0:08:08.879,0:08:12.560 you get stuff live so much faster with 0:08:11.360,0:08:14.080 shopify 0:08:12.560,0:08:15.919 i was curious what were some of the 0:08:14.080,0:08:17.759 factors that went into the platform 0:08:15.919,0:08:19.120 decision for you and how do you think 0:08:17.759,0:08:21.120 about the whole 0:08:19.120,0:08:22.479 range of platforms that are available 0:08:21.120,0:08:24.319 these days 0:08:22.479,0:08:26.000 yeah i only joined the business last 0:08:24.319,0:08:28.560 october so a lot of those decisions 0:08:26.000,0:08:30.319 were made long before i got there but um 0:08:28.560,0:08:32.560 we didn't want to re-platform within the 0:08:30.319,0:08:35.440 first couple of weeks 0:08:32.560,0:08:37.440 yeah and honestly you know we the 0:08:35.440,0:08:40.080 narrative of the business growth was we 0:08:37.440,0:08:41.680 grew really really rapidly through let's 0:08:40.080,0:08:44.240 call it 2017. 0:08:41.680,0:08:45.279 and at the end of 2017 a couple things 0:08:44.240,0:08:48.000 had happened 0:08:45.279,0:08:49.279 um internal to the business at that time 0:08:48.000,0:08:51.760 one 0:08:49.279,0:08:54.080 they made the decision to re-platform 0:08:51.760,0:08:55.839 for magento and magento too 0:08:54.080,0:08:58.560 the ceo and the team i hear that we're 0:08:55.839,0:09:00.399 gonna give it a few years i hear that 0:08:58.560,0:09:01.839 m2 we want to make sure that it irons 0:09:00.399,0:09:03.600 the kinks out right we're going to give 0:09:01.839,0:09:04.959 it some chance give it some time to sort 0:09:03.600,0:09:07.279 of grow its own legs 0:09:04.959,0:09:09.279 and they felt like they'd done that and 0:09:07.279,0:09:10.720 uh the second thing that happened was 0:09:09.279,0:09:12.480 there was a narrative inside the 0:09:10.720,0:09:14.160 business that hey we've tapped out of 0:09:12.480,0:09:16.399 this kind of foot pain customer 0:09:14.160,0:09:17.279 right we've spent into the yield curve 0:09:16.399,0:09:18.800 and we can't 0:09:17.279,0:09:20.240 spend any more money to grow the 0:09:18.800,0:09:22.080 business so we got to sort of almost 0:09:20.240,0:09:24.080 soft pivot the story 0:09:22.080,0:09:25.279 and so what happened was they started to 0:09:24.080,0:09:27.519 try to think about 0:09:25.279,0:09:29.920 uh they de-emphasized the foot pain 0:09:27.519,0:09:31.279 message and more emphasized on 0:09:29.920,0:09:32.640 hey caleb if you were free from foot 0:09:31.279,0:09:34.640 pain imagine what that would allow you 0:09:32.640,0:09:37.600 to do right imagine 0:09:34.640,0:09:38.720 it became more of a sort of salvia sell 0:09:37.600,0:09:40.640 the siblings yeah 0:09:38.720,0:09:42.320 sizzle inside of the steak yeah exactly 0:09:40.640,0:09:45.279 it's became a more uh 0:09:42.320,0:09:46.320 uh aspirational almost a lifestyle brand 0:09:45.279,0:09:48.640 type of a 0:09:46.320,0:09:51.600 pivot nice but they left behind 0:09:48.640,0:09:54.240 thousands of pages of content 0:09:51.600,0:09:55.440 and hundreds of specific articles 0:09:54.240,0:09:55.839 landing pages that have been created 0:09:55.440,0:09:57.279 that 0:09:55.839,0:10:00.160 targeted the foot pain right so as you 0:09:57.279,0:10:02.160 can imagine they peaked in 17 revenue 0:10:00.160,0:10:05.040 wise and 18 kind of flattened 0:10:02.160,0:10:06.480 and they spent more uh to drive paid 0:10:05.040,0:10:10.320 media to sort of keep that 0:10:06.480,0:10:11.680 that consistency um and so the site you 0:10:10.320,0:10:14.720 know needed a lot of work 0:10:11.680,0:10:16.640 and and um last year was actually a 0:10:14.720,0:10:18.079 down year for them so i came in and 0:10:16.640,0:10:19.279 we've been able to really turn it around 0:10:18.079,0:10:21.680 pretty quickly but just getting back to 0:10:19.279,0:10:23.360 basics um yeah 0:10:21.680,0:10:25.440 focusing on like i keep saying to the 0:10:23.360,0:10:27.360 team ecommerce doesn't have to be hard 0:10:25.440,0:10:29.120 it's not it's really not rocket science 0:10:27.360,0:10:30.640 like let's get let's get first 0:10:29.120,0:10:32.480 principles correct 0:10:30.640,0:10:34.480 let's focus on site speed let's focus on 0:10:32.480,0:10:36.399 clarity message let's focus on 0:10:34.480,0:10:38.959 you know we're eliminating friction any 0:10:36.399,0:10:40.720 place that exists when and where we can 0:10:38.959,0:10:42.160 so it's been a good year yeah i mean 0:10:40.720,0:10:44.240 skirt le cova didn't hurt 0:10:42.160,0:10:45.600 as you know i mean it's a it's pushed a 0:10:44.240,0:10:47.279 lot of folks online 0:10:45.600,0:10:50.320 but we were trending in that direction 0:10:47.279,0:10:52.480 even before it hit so yeah 0:10:50.320,0:10:54.079 i was curious to drill into how uh covet 0:10:52.480,0:10:56.399 has impacted things but 0:10:54.079,0:10:58.480 i'm i'm fascinated by what you just said 0:10:56.399,0:11:01.600 e-commerce doesn't have to be hard 0:10:58.480,0:11:03.839 and what are some of the ways that that 0:11:01.600,0:11:05.680 shows up for you in ways that maybe 0:11:03.839,0:11:07.040 people assume it does have to be hard 0:11:05.680,0:11:09.040 like what are some of the 0:11:07.040,0:11:10.480 decisions or things where there's a 0:11:09.040,0:11:11.760 scenario maybe people are over 0:11:10.480,0:11:14.399 complicating things 0:11:11.760,0:11:16.320 and you go let's take a step back and 0:11:14.399,0:11:17.360 i'll give you two really good examples i 0:11:16.320,0:11:20.240 know 0:11:17.360,0:11:22.000 it's it's really um fun to be the new 0:11:20.240,0:11:23.680 guy right you see things with those new 0:11:22.000,0:11:27.040 guy eyes my old boss 0:11:23.680,0:11:28.000 from years ago used to implore me please 0:11:27.040,0:11:30.079 don't lose the new guy 0:11:28.000,0:11:31.279 eyes like you you came from the outside 0:11:30.079,0:11:33.839 of this place 0:11:31.279,0:11:34.880 and we need that external sort of point 0:11:33.839,0:11:37.120 of view about stuff 0:11:34.880,0:11:38.720 um and the same thing's true here like 0:11:37.120,0:11:39.279 every time we hire someone new we we 0:11:38.720,0:11:40.959 actually 0:11:39.279,0:11:42.959 we implore them like please like hang on 0:11:40.959,0:11:45.120 to that external challenge everything 0:11:42.959,0:11:46.480 that we're doing to make sure that we're 0:11:45.120,0:11:47.839 we can sort of back that up with reason 0:11:46.480,0:11:49.040 i'll just give you two quick examples 0:11:47.839,0:11:51.279 one 0:11:49.040,0:11:52.560 um as i came into the business and 0:11:51.279,0:11:54.320 started to analyze and learn a little 0:11:52.560,0:11:56.240 bit more about our customer base and 0:11:54.320,0:11:58.399 you know who was buying and what so we 0:11:56.240,0:11:59.200 skew about two-thirds female about 0:11:58.399,0:12:02.959 two-thirds 0:11:59.200,0:12:05.440 40-plus um it's this business more than 0:12:02.959,0:12:06.880 many i think is a real challenging one 0:12:05.440,0:12:09.600 because 0:12:06.880,0:12:10.480 it our customers are just anybody with 0:12:09.600,0:12:13.200 foot pain i 0:12:10.480,0:12:15.040 you know you can be 22 and have foot 0:12:13.200,0:12:16.720 pain you can be 22 and develop plantar 0:12:15.040,0:12:18.399 fasciitis like doctors don't really know 0:12:16.720,0:12:19.519 what causes it they know they can define 0:12:18.399,0:12:21.680 that they can say oh it's an 0:12:19.519,0:12:24.160 inflammation of the plantar fascia and 0:12:21.680,0:12:25.200 it's the nerve surroundings they still 0:12:24.160,0:12:28.399 don't really know what 0:12:25.200,0:12:30.639 directly causes it um and so 0:12:28.399,0:12:31.920 i keep telling my ceo like the only 0:12:30.639,0:12:33.360 thing our customers have in common is 0:12:31.920,0:12:35.040 they all have two feet one of them hurts 0:12:33.360,0:12:36.079 man like it just doesn't matter where 0:12:35.040,0:12:37.680 you live 0:12:36.079,0:12:39.519 what you look like how much money you 0:12:37.680,0:12:40.880 make what your psychographic profile is 0:12:39.519,0:12:44.240 it just doesn't matter 0:12:40.880,0:12:45.360 and so um it's harder for us to identify 0:12:44.240,0:12:47.519 those people 0:12:45.360,0:12:48.560 but back to the the quick the quick win 0:12:47.519,0:12:51.040 was 0:12:48.560,0:12:52.000 um when you think about our customer 0:12:51.040,0:12:54.560 base as being 40 0:12:52.000,0:12:55.120 plus i got in and started navigating to 0:12:54.560,0:12:58.399 say it's like 0:12:55.120,0:12:58.720 our font is really small right let's try 0:12:58.399,0:13:00.160 and 0:12:58.720,0:13:02.079 let's try and j i mean we increased the 0:13:00.160,0:13:04.240 font size basically across every 0:13:02.079,0:13:05.120 transactional page by i want to say four 0:13:04.240,0:13:07.519 points 0:13:05.120,0:13:09.120 yeah um maybe more i can't remember the 0:13:07.519,0:13:11.360 specifics but conversion rate 0:13:09.120,0:13:13.279 immediately went up it's like 0:13:11.360,0:13:14.800 hey go figure when people can actually 0:13:13.279,0:13:16.320 read things it's 0:13:14.800,0:13:18.800 easier for them to do business with us 0:13:16.320,0:13:19.279 right yeah um the second big decision 0:13:18.800,0:13:21.600 was 0:13:19.279,0:13:23.440 um when covid hit we decided to put a 0:13:21.600,0:13:25.839 persistent bar at the top and 0:13:23.440,0:13:27.279 and we never actually messaged anything 0:13:25.839,0:13:29.680 covet related 0:13:27.279,0:13:31.440 um there was this you know big remember 0:13:29.680,0:13:32.720 back six months ago like oh are you 0:13:31.440,0:13:34.160 still shipping or you know 0:13:32.720,0:13:36.560 all this sort of confusion of what was 0:13:34.160,0:13:39.440 going on and we started the test we 0:13:36.560,0:13:41.040 we instituted a really quick quick test 0:13:39.440,0:13:43.600 um we had three or four variants 0:13:41.040,0:13:45.519 and the simplest variant won and what 0:13:43.600,0:13:46.800 that bar now says is free shipping free 0:13:45.519,0:13:48.000 returns free exchanges and it's 0:13:46.800,0:13:50.079 persistent on every page 0:13:48.000,0:13:51.839 that you navigate except for the cart 0:13:50.079,0:13:53.600 but that message was somewhere else on 0:13:51.839,0:13:55.360 the home page and it also still lives on 0:13:53.600,0:13:56.880 our pdp page kind of buried down in this 0:13:55.360,0:13:59.279 kind of like iconographic 0:13:56.880,0:14:00.480 box thing that's and don't go figure 0:13:59.279,0:14:03.360 when you put it 0:14:00.480,0:14:05.360 top of the site um conversion rate 0:14:03.360,0:14:07.920 increased like 20 plus percent when we 0:14:05.360,0:14:09.519 actually executed that test it's like 0:14:07.920,0:14:11.199 nice you know you just make it super 0:14:09.519,0:14:13.360 clear you got to kind of beat people i 0:14:11.199,0:14:14.959 uh my boss loves the analogy i keep 0:14:13.360,0:14:16.560 saying we're still not where i'd like us 0:14:14.959,0:14:17.120 to be in terms of when you land on our 0:14:16.560,0:14:18.959 site 0:14:17.120,0:14:21.199 it should be painfully obvious that we 0:14:18.959,0:14:22.880 are in a mission to eliminate foot pain 0:14:21.199,0:14:24.320 and i i joke like i want to i want to 0:14:22.880,0:14:26.000 slap everyone that visits 0:14:24.320,0:14:27.680 over the face across the face with a wet 0:14:26.000,0:14:30.000 fish and scream we 0:14:27.680,0:14:31.279 eliminate or we you know we exist to 0:14:30.000,0:14:32.160 eliminate foot pain that's what we're on 0:14:31.279,0:14:34.240 a mission to do 0:14:32.160,0:14:35.600 yeah and we're still not there yet but 0:14:34.240,0:14:38.639 um when we got 0:14:35.600,0:14:40.800 when you landed on the site a year ago 0:14:38.639,0:14:42.320 it wasn't the lead was completely buried 0:14:40.800,0:14:44.160 you know if you go and read our product 0:14:42.320,0:14:45.519 reviews every single customer screams 0:14:44.160,0:14:47.199 that out like oh my gosh this 0:14:45.519,0:14:49.040 i tried everything else before i tried 0:14:47.199,0:14:50.399 this and it works and i can't believe it 0:14:49.040,0:14:52.399 thank heavens i found you'll never buy 0:14:50.399,0:14:55.760 anyone else you know yeah yeah 0:14:52.399,0:14:57.199 all the time but even today if you land 0:14:55.760,0:14:58.720 on our site and the home page 0:14:57.199,0:15:00.480 it's not nearly as prevalent as i'd like 0:14:58.720,0:15:02.320 it to be yeah i think it was 0:15:00.480,0:15:04.880 uh for somebody that was coming to the 0:15:02.320,0:15:08.160 site with fresh eyes myself i think that 0:15:04.880,0:15:09.360 um did uh pop out pretty quickly to me i 0:15:08.160,0:15:11.839 mean i was granted 0:15:09.360,0:15:13.920 going in and trying to understand things 0:15:11.839,0:15:17.600 and stuff like that i wasn't just like a 0:15:13.920,0:15:21.600 casual surfer but um 0:15:17.600,0:15:24.320 uh what kind of dog you got by the way 0:15:21.600,0:15:25.440 yeah sorry i can't control uh the 0:15:24.320,0:15:26.959 delivery schedule 0:15:25.440,0:15:28.480 yeah there's a couple of them they're 0:15:26.959,0:15:30.720 both mixed breed rescues 0:15:28.480,0:15:32.480 and feed off of each other the minute it 0:15:30.720,0:15:34.639 happens it's like nice 0:15:32.480,0:15:36.160 i've been thinking about i have a yellow 0:15:34.639,0:15:37.839 lab uh she's about 0:15:36.160,0:15:38.959 she'll be three soon and i've been 0:15:37.839,0:15:40.000 thinking about whether i should get 0:15:38.959,0:15:43.040 another one 0:15:40.000,0:15:44.480 so she has like a buddy and you know i 0:15:43.040,0:15:47.519 had her since she was a puppy 0:15:44.480,0:15:50.560 and uh she was absolutely adorable 0:15:47.519,0:15:52.320 but just a ton of work um 0:15:50.560,0:15:54.240 so i i keep thinking about i've been 0:15:52.320,0:15:56.880 taking her to the dog park a lot lately 0:15:54.240,0:15:58.160 you know which is a lot of fun yeah um 0:15:56.880,0:15:59.279 yeah we're out here in the boonies so 0:15:58.160,0:16:00.800 we've got some room and 0:15:59.279,0:16:02.720 uh we'd love to let you know get them 0:16:00.800,0:16:04.720 running and expending a lot of energy 0:16:02.720,0:16:06.800 but the one guy the barker is a 0:16:04.720,0:16:08.160 boxer and black lab mix but he looks 0:16:06.800,0:16:09.279 kind of like a pit bull he's a little 0:16:08.160,0:16:11.600 short stocky guy 0:16:09.279,0:16:14.639 uh-huh big head big blocky head black 0:16:11.600,0:16:14.639 and white he's a man 0:16:14.959,0:16:21.680 he's a good buddy yeah yeah um 0:16:18.399,0:16:23.199 i i love how transparent you are about 0:16:21.680,0:16:24.240 like you were you were you know just as 0:16:23.199,0:16:25.519 we've been talking you've been talking 0:16:24.240,0:16:26.480 about revenue things and different 0:16:25.519,0:16:28.320 things like that 0:16:26.480,0:16:29.839 and one of the things i i think about a 0:16:28.320,0:16:31.199 lot i'm used to being in kind of the 0:16:29.839,0:16:33.519 vendor ecosystem 0:16:31.199,0:16:34.800 within e-commerce development agencies 0:16:33.519,0:16:38.160 sas companies 0:16:34.800,0:16:38.480 and um i i sort of wonder why people on 0:16:38.160,0:16:40.959 the 0:16:38.480,0:16:42.079 brand side the retail side tend to be 0:16:40.959,0:16:43.279 like i have a buddy 0:16:42.079,0:16:44.800 i was talking to you recently we're 0:16:43.279,0:16:46.720 having this great conversation about 0:16:44.800,0:16:48.079 manufacturing all sorts of stuff 0:16:46.720,0:16:50.480 and i was like man it'd be fun to have 0:16:48.079,0:16:52.800 you on the podcast and he was like no 0:16:50.480,0:16:53.839 no i we can't i can't talk i can't talk 0:16:52.800,0:16:56.079 about like 0:16:53.839,0:16:56.880 there's a hesitation to talk about 0:16:56.079,0:16:59.440 things 0:16:56.880,0:17:00.720 and i understand that as a vendor when 0:16:59.440,0:17:01.680 you're putting out content being 0:17:00.720,0:17:04.720 transparent 0:17:01.680,0:17:05.520 that's also marketing right and so i get 0:17:04.720,0:17:08.160 that but 0:17:05.520,0:17:09.039 i'm curious if it's just a mindset shift 0:17:08.160,0:17:11.439 or 0:17:09.039,0:17:13.199 um you know the reasons why you tend to 0:17:11.439,0:17:15.039 be more transparent talk about 0:17:13.199,0:17:16.160 the tools you're looking into and the 0:17:15.039,0:17:18.160 things that you're doing with the 0:17:16.160,0:17:20.079 business and stuff like that 0:17:18.160,0:17:22.400 yeah i mean i agree with you i think i 0:17:20.079,0:17:24.319 think as on the sas on the b2b side 0:17:22.400,0:17:25.839 it's marketing right it's there's it's 0:17:24.319,0:17:27.120 brilliant for the common thread 0:17:25.839,0:17:29.039 collective guys to be 0:17:27.120,0:17:31.679 sharing case studies i mean it's just so 0:17:29.039,0:17:33.120 smart um your podcasts the same thing 0:17:31.679,0:17:33.600 right i mean it's a piece of it's a way 0:17:33.120,0:17:36.160 to 0:17:33.600,0:17:36.720 do content marketing really well i do it 0:17:36.160,0:17:40.000 because i 0:17:36.720,0:17:41.280 it um for for a couple reasons well one 0:17:40.000,0:17:43.039 there's a line that we don't cross 0:17:41.280,0:17:44.559 in terms of being as private as we are 0:17:43.039,0:17:45.360 we don't share specifics in terms of 0:17:44.559,0:17:46.799 revenue or 0:17:45.360,0:17:47.679 margin or anything like that but if 0:17:46.799,0:17:49.200 we're talking about a baseline 0:17:47.679,0:17:50.559 improvement i can i can speak to those 0:17:49.200,0:17:52.240 kind of things all day long and i sort 0:17:50.559,0:17:53.520 of know where that that line exists and 0:17:52.240,0:17:56.799 so i try to limit it 0:17:53.520,0:17:58.640 to that kind of conversation too i think 0:17:56.799,0:18:00.320 my goal is to hire the best people that 0:17:58.640,0:18:02.400 i can all the time 0:18:00.320,0:18:03.919 and so you know whether those people are 0:18:02.400,0:18:05.440 here in salt lake city or whether i can 0:18:03.919,0:18:06.799 attract people from across the country 0:18:05.440,0:18:08.720 and bring them here i mean my econ 0:18:06.799,0:18:09.919 manager is a guy who relocated here from 0:18:08.720,0:18:12.320 tampa 0:18:09.919,0:18:14.160 um you know we found him he's a great 0:18:12.320,0:18:15.360 fit he's a stone cold killer he's just 0:18:14.160,0:18:17.039 helping us so much 0:18:15.360,0:18:18.400 in terms of the amount of work we're the 0:18:17.039,0:18:20.240 throughput right the work we're 0:18:18.400,0:18:21.840 able to get done right and so i want 0:18:20.240,0:18:23.679 people to learn about the brand i joke 0:18:21.840,0:18:26.080 all the time i feel like kuru is one of 0:18:23.679,0:18:28.080 the best kept secrets in salt lake city 0:18:26.080,0:18:29.200 salt lake city is filled with really 0:18:28.080,0:18:30.960 great tech companies and 0:18:29.200,0:18:32.160 again more on that b2b sas we were 0:18:30.960,0:18:33.520 talking a little bit before we started 0:18:32.160,0:18:34.720 the the podcast 0:18:33.520,0:18:36.559 you know there's a ton of great 0:18:34.720,0:18:37.760 companies like domo and weave and so 0:18:36.559,0:18:39.520 many others and there's dozens and 0:18:37.760,0:18:41.280 dozens of them that are 0:18:39.520,0:18:44.400 popping up and growing like like 0:18:41.280,0:18:46.240 wildfire um in the salt lake city area 0:18:44.400,0:18:48.400 ecommerce especially direct to consumer 0:18:46.240,0:18:49.760 there's a couple there's taft you know 0:18:48.400,0:18:51.200 there's there's purple 0:18:49.760,0:18:53.039 there's a few folks like that that are 0:18:51.200,0:18:54.559 around but we don't get a lot of the 0:18:53.039,0:18:55.840 attention that those other sort of big 0:18:54.559,0:18:58.080 players do you know we're not out 0:18:55.840,0:18:59.760 raising massive funding rounds 0:18:58.080,0:19:01.039 that's not why i'm sharing because we 0:18:59.760,0:19:02.320 have no interest in that we're really 0:19:01.039,0:19:03.360 happy with the way things are going 0:19:02.320,0:19:06.240 right now 0:19:03.360,0:19:07.360 um but there that talent acquisition 0:19:06.240,0:19:09.039 piece you know we're having those 0:19:07.360,0:19:09.360 conversations right now as a leadership 0:19:09.039,0:19:11.840 group 0:19:09.360,0:19:12.880 around like what is our employment and 0:19:11.840,0:19:15.360 um 0:19:12.880,0:19:17.520 experience our ex sort of strategy and 0:19:15.360,0:19:18.799 my my version of events is i want us to 0:19:17.520,0:19:19.760 become an employer of choice in the 0:19:18.799,0:19:21.440 valley and across 0:19:19.760,0:19:23.200 at least the western part you know west 0:19:21.440,0:19:24.799 of the mississippi let's say 0:19:23.200,0:19:26.880 i want to be able to suck people in from 0:19:24.799,0:19:28.640 everywhere find the most talented people 0:19:26.880,0:19:32.080 bring them to work for us 0:19:28.640,0:19:33.760 um and hopefully have them 20 years from 0:19:32.080,0:19:35.600 now look back and go that was the best 0:19:33.760,0:19:37.120 job i ever had like to me that's 0:19:35.600,0:19:39.039 that's my strategy from an employee 0:19:37.120,0:19:40.400 experience perspective i want to treat 0:19:39.039,0:19:42.160 people with 0:19:40.400,0:19:43.679 dignity and respect and challenge them 0:19:42.160,0:19:44.799 and push them but also give them great 0:19:43.679,0:19:47.919 growth opportunities 0:19:44.799,0:19:49.280 um that's as a manager that's my job is 0:19:47.919,0:19:50.640 to develop people so they're ready to 0:19:49.280,0:19:51.600 take the next step in their career and 0:19:50.640,0:19:53.200 sometimes 0:19:51.600,0:19:55.039 that might be outside the house it's not 0:19:53.200,0:19:56.799 even part of kuru but 0:19:55.039,0:19:58.160 those things happen and if it happens 0:19:56.799,0:19:59.120 it's like you get a high five for me 0:19:58.160,0:20:01.200 let's stay in touch 0:19:59.120,0:20:02.880 speak well of us to anyone else that 0:20:01.200,0:20:04.400 might be interested in coming in and 0:20:02.880,0:20:06.320 let's stay in touch let's go golfing 0:20:04.400,0:20:08.720 let's have a drink you know lunch 0:20:06.320,0:20:09.600 and keep those relationships alive 0:20:08.720,0:20:10.880 because 0:20:09.600,0:20:12.400 i can't tell you the number of people 0:20:10.880,0:20:13.200 that have like referred to my former 0:20:12.400,0:20:14.880 companies 0:20:13.200,0:20:16.240 or and vice versa you know i've been 0:20:14.880,0:20:18.320 lucky enough to take 0:20:16.240,0:20:19.760 or to bring top performers to work for 0:20:18.320,0:20:22.240 me a second time that they were willing 0:20:19.760,0:20:25.280 to relocate across the country yeah 0:20:22.240,0:20:27.039 if you just do those i think sharing 0:20:25.280,0:20:29.120 that information gives you a platform 0:20:27.039,0:20:31.120 right and if you're consistent about it 0:20:29.120,0:20:31.440 you get to be known over time as someone 0:20:31.120,0:20:33.440 who 0:20:31.440,0:20:35.039 is backs or wires or sort of whatever 0:20:33.440,0:20:36.720 that expertise level is 0:20:35.039,0:20:38.240 i love that yeah it's interesting so 0:20:36.720,0:20:39.840 it's like a lot of times when i ask this 0:20:38.240,0:20:41.520 question and get feedback it's like well 0:20:39.840,0:20:43.200 for the vendors it's marketing 0:20:41.520,0:20:44.720 for the merchants it's not but it's like 0:20:43.200,0:20:46.880 recruiting 0:20:44.720,0:20:49.200 is like is like everything like the 0:20:46.880,0:20:52.320 talent that you have at your company 0:20:49.200,0:20:54.000 is so huge and and um 0:20:52.320,0:20:55.840 yeah there's concerns all competitors 0:20:54.000,0:20:58.960 might hear what we're doing 0:20:55.840,0:21:01.360 but like the value of attracting talent 0:20:58.960,0:21:04.080 is like it's it's it's so huge 0:21:01.360,0:21:05.440 yeah it's funny that look if if you can 0:21:04.080,0:21:06.880 define what we're doing and you want to 0:21:05.440,0:21:08.320 copy it like there's so many tools out 0:21:06.880,0:21:10.240 there for you to go be able to do that i 0:21:08.320,0:21:13.360 can't stop you from doing that 0:21:10.240,0:21:15.440 abundance mindset yeah it's everything's 0:21:13.360,0:21:16.880 in the execution right a good idea 0:21:15.440,0:21:18.559 it's not that they they don't they're 0:21:16.880,0:21:19.280 not a dime a dozen because good ideas 0:21:18.559,0:21:21.039 are great 0:21:19.280,0:21:22.480 but it all boils up to the execution you 0:21:21.039,0:21:24.000 can you can be jealous of what we're 0:21:22.480,0:21:25.520 doing in the paid search space but if 0:21:24.000,0:21:27.200 you have the 0:21:25.520,0:21:28.960 the ability to actually go replicate it 0:21:27.200,0:21:30.480 that's great like 0:21:28.960,0:21:32.159 that competitive fire is going to be 0:21:30.480,0:21:33.760 there and we should all be testing out 0:21:32.159,0:21:35.520 everything all the time and finding the 0:21:33.760,0:21:37.520 things that work right yeah 0:21:35.520,0:21:39.440 it's funny you mentioned purple because 0:21:37.520,0:21:42.559 i also saw you posted about 0:21:39.440,0:21:43.360 uh frequency caps for some ads that you 0:21:42.559,0:21:46.159 were seeing 0:21:43.360,0:21:48.159 and that oh my god like an ad like 52 0:21:46.159,0:21:51.440 times in a week or something like that 0:21:48.159,0:21:52.880 the purple the purple uh mattress ads 0:21:51.440,0:21:54.400 when i was doing some like 0:21:52.880,0:21:56.480 i was building a shed or something like 0:21:54.400,0:21:59.679 that so i was searching on youtube 0:21:56.480,0:22:01.919 and these ads man i would see them all 0:21:59.679,0:22:05.280 the time 0:22:01.919,0:22:05.280 clearly in their demographics 0:22:05.360,0:22:10.080 i really guys i don't need a mattress 0:22:07.440,0:22:12.640 i'm good i'm good 0:22:10.080,0:22:13.120 but yeah that was a fun experiment sms 0:22:12.640,0:22:15.039 uh 0:22:13.120,0:22:16.159 platforms are just popping up everywhere 0:22:15.039,0:22:17.679 right and i just kept 0:22:16.159,0:22:19.039 and that had been going on for months 0:22:17.679,0:22:20.799 and finally i'm like i can't handle it 0:22:19.039,0:22:22.559 anymore so i just decided to track i 0:22:20.799,0:22:24.480 just actually did a screen grab of every 0:22:22.559,0:22:26.640 single time i saw an ad 0:22:24.480,0:22:27.919 for this one platform is like oh my gosh 0:22:26.640,0:22:29.760 it's just too much like 0:22:27.919,0:22:31.760 yeah yeah it was four or five times a 0:22:29.760,0:22:33.280 day for for that whole week and then 0:22:31.760,0:22:35.919 when i tweeted about it it all stopped 0:22:33.280,0:22:35.919 so i don't know 0:22:39.600,0:22:42.720 are you getting into i know sms 0:22:41.440,0:22:44.720 marketing is real hot 0:22:42.720,0:22:46.400 and uh right now are you getting into 0:22:44.720,0:22:49.520 that what are your thoughts on that 0:22:46.400,0:22:50.880 we're not um i i have a you know we're 0:22:49.520,0:22:54.320 one of those weird braces i should have 0:22:50.880,0:22:55.919 shown you that ad one more time it would 0:22:54.320,0:22:58.159 have pushed me over the edge 0:22:55.919,0:22:59.600 i we're not a heavy discounting brand 0:22:58.159,0:23:00.799 we're one of those brands that believes 0:22:59.600,0:23:04.480 in selling the value 0:23:00.799,0:23:06.320 um in fact i removed the the discount 0:23:04.480,0:23:08.320 box from our checkout flow 0:23:06.320,0:23:10.159 you cannot input a discount code any 0:23:08.320,0:23:13.120 longer i love it 0:23:10.159,0:23:14.480 so uh you know my my way of dealing with 0:23:13.120,0:23:15.679 that i actually wanted to replace it 0:23:14.480,0:23:17.200 with some language that said something 0:23:15.679,0:23:19.760 like always the best price 0:23:17.200,0:23:22.080 like you know no coupon required yeah so 0:23:19.760,0:23:23.200 every customer that comes by our site 0:23:22.080,0:23:24.000 we're going to have the same promotion 0:23:23.200,0:23:25.840 for everybody 0:23:24.000,0:23:27.280 you're not going to get treated special 0:23:25.840,0:23:29.280 i don't want you going off and running 0:23:27.280,0:23:31.200 searches for crew coupons 0:23:29.280,0:23:32.799 hitting some crappy affiliate like 0:23:31.200,0:23:33.760 retailmenot that i don't do business 0:23:32.799,0:23:35.120 with anyway 0:23:33.760,0:23:36.480 where someone's trying to crowdsource a 0:23:35.120,0:23:37.520 coupon to get a better deal like you're 0:23:36.480,0:23:38.240 never going to get that better deal 0:23:37.520,0:23:40.960 anymore 0:23:38.240,0:23:43.520 yeah um so you know we prefer to work 0:23:40.960,0:23:45.120 with affiliates who are content creators 0:23:43.520,0:23:47.279 and so the question that i always ask 0:23:45.120,0:23:48.640 every time people use sms is oh my gosh 0:23:47.279,0:23:51.200 sms is so great it's so great 0:23:48.640,0:23:53.200 it's like okay what are you doing like 0:23:51.200,0:23:53.840 and every single time it's an offer it's 0:23:53.200,0:23:56.240 a promo 0:23:53.840,0:23:57.840 discount it's something it's a you know 0:23:56.240,0:23:59.840 and so it's like well i'm 0:23:57.840,0:24:01.200 not convinced i think from a transaction 0:23:59.840,0:24:01.840 perspective it's great like if i want to 0:24:01.200,0:24:04.320 share you know 0:24:01.840,0:24:05.600 um we should and we don't today we 0:24:04.320,0:24:06.880 should have that option for you to 0:24:05.600,0:24:08.159 choose like what's the best way for us 0:24:06.880,0:24:10.400 to communicate with you 0:24:08.159,0:24:12.640 you want to get um shipping 0:24:10.400,0:24:15.840 notifications you know all that stuff 0:24:12.640,0:24:17.120 in messenger in sms and email 0:24:15.840,0:24:19.600 we'll we'll put it wherever you want it 0:24:17.120,0:24:23.360 to be we're not that sophisticated yet 0:24:19.600,0:24:26.240 um but it's it's tempting 0:24:23.360,0:24:27.039 um i was listening to a podcast the 0:24:26.240,0:24:28.720 other day about 0:24:27.039,0:24:31.120 i think it's a live recovery that does 0:24:28.720,0:24:32.240 actually live human beings sort of sms 0:24:31.120,0:24:34.080 like there's a 0:24:32.240,0:24:35.600 there's a chance to inject the brand 0:24:34.080,0:24:36.159 voice in that like that's somewhat 0:24:35.600,0:24:38.400 tempting 0:24:36.159,0:24:40.400 right now um yeah yeah but it's we've 0:24:38.400,0:24:42.559 got so much other stuff to fix right now 0:24:40.400,0:24:43.600 um as i've told my boss we joined a year 0:24:42.559,0:24:45.039 ago like 0:24:43.600,0:24:46.320 i'm thinking of the business in three 0:24:45.039,0:24:48.480 phases and we're still in the middle of 0:24:46.320,0:24:50.640 phase one which is just fixed digital 0:24:48.480,0:24:52.400 so a lot of work yet to be done there 0:24:50.640,0:24:52.720 yeah actually i'm gonna have dennis uh 0:24:52.400,0:24:54.880 uh 0:24:52.720,0:24:56.159 on the podcast soon he's the founder of 0:24:54.880,0:24:59.200 live recovery yeah 0:24:56.159,0:25:00.000 yeah um i had seen um just i think this 0:24:59.200,0:25:02.240 morning or 0:25:00.000,0:25:04.159 yesterday i saw one of their ads that 0:25:02.240,0:25:05.600 they were running and i i thought 0:25:04.159,0:25:07.440 because i built an email marketing 0:25:05.600,0:25:09.279 software that got acquired and so i 0:25:07.440,0:25:12.640 thought a lot about 0:25:09.279,0:25:14.480 writing short and sweet copy and i liked 0:25:12.640,0:25:15.919 the way they did it even the way they 0:25:14.480,0:25:18.400 mentioned the discount 0:25:15.919,0:25:19.760 was like a little subtle it was like do 0:25:18.400,0:25:21.440 you want me to see if i can get you a 0:25:19.760,0:25:24.559 discount as opposed to 0:25:21.440,0:25:26.159 click here for 50 you know so 0:25:24.559,0:25:29.200 i liked i liked some of the elements of 0:25:26.159,0:25:30.480 it the human um powered aspect of it is 0:25:29.200,0:25:33.039 kind of interesting 0:25:30.480,0:25:33.520 um as well but i love what you're doing 0:25:33.039,0:25:36.240 with 0:25:33.520,0:25:38.640 avoiding uh the discounts i mean that 0:25:36.240,0:25:42.400 can just 0:25:38.640,0:25:44.480 be a race to the bottom so quickly um 0:25:42.400,0:25:45.840 you know i i heard the recent podcast 0:25:44.480,0:25:49.039 with andrew ferriss and 0:25:45.840,0:25:51.279 um and uh taylor over at 0:25:49.039,0:25:52.880 um you know the 4x400 guys we're talking 0:25:51.279,0:25:55.039 about is a discount a race to the bottom 0:25:52.880,0:25:56.799 it's kind of a follow-up to a tweet that 0:25:55.039,0:26:00.240 i think nate had put out there 0:25:56.799,0:26:02.000 um digital and native and i 0:26:00.240,0:26:03.360 and we don't do it and we i got involved 0:26:02.000,0:26:03.760 in that threat as well like we don't do 0:26:03.360,0:26:06.080 it 0:26:03.760,0:26:08.000 um but i'm open to testing if we have 0:26:06.080,0:26:08.559 the right way to track it you know i'm 0:26:08.000,0:26:10.640 just not 0:26:08.559,0:26:11.840 convinced you know the way we use we do 0:26:10.640,0:26:12.720 have a clearance center on the site 0:26:11.840,0:26:14.240 today 0:26:12.720,0:26:16.000 and the way um we're having this 0:26:14.240,0:26:18.400 conversation internally i 0:26:16.000,0:26:19.919 like to use the clearance center to 0:26:18.400,0:26:21.440 manage inventory levels 0:26:19.919,0:26:22.880 if we're heavy in something that we 0:26:21.440,0:26:24.000 don't need that much inventory we 0:26:22.880,0:26:27.279 overbought 0:26:24.000,0:26:29.200 um you know we now instituted a new um 0:26:27.279,0:26:31.520 sort of limited edition philosophy so 0:26:29.200,0:26:31.840 our core our core styles you know we've 0:26:31.520,0:26:34.720 got 0:26:31.840,0:26:36.000 our core colorways in those styles that 0:26:34.720,0:26:36.480 we know we're always going to have the 0:26:36.000,0:26:38.640 black 0:26:36.480,0:26:40.159 you know men's atom is a great example 0:26:38.640,0:26:43.279 it's always going to be there 0:26:40.159,0:26:44.559 and so i've i've in this past year being 0:26:43.279,0:26:45.919 with the business 0:26:44.559,0:26:48.480 actually this week is my one year 0:26:45.919,0:26:50.320 anniversary um congratulations 0:26:48.480,0:26:51.840 thank you we've we've gotten to this 0:26:50.320,0:26:53.600 point where we're 0:26:51.840,0:26:55.200 philosophically aligned on how we want 0:26:53.600,0:26:56.960 to manage those we want to manage those 0:26:55.200,0:26:57.600 core color ways so that they never go 0:26:56.960,0:26:59.600 out of stock 0:26:57.600,0:27:00.960 right if you hit that website you should 0:26:59.600,0:27:02.559 never have a need to use a back and 0:27:00.960,0:27:05.600 stock notification 0:27:02.559,0:27:07.200 um on those colorways we should always 0:27:05.600,0:27:08.480 be having enough inventory to say oh 0:27:07.200,0:27:10.640 we're never going to go out of stock on 0:27:08.480,0:27:13.120 a size 8 or 9 or whatever 0:27:10.640,0:27:14.559 um the there's new colors that we're 0:27:13.120,0:27:15.919 going to introduce that we're labeling 0:27:14.559,0:27:17.360 limited editions we're only going to buy 0:27:15.919,0:27:19.120 them once and i want us to get in the 0:27:17.360,0:27:21.760 habit of sort of buying 0:27:19.120,0:27:23.919 x months worth of inventory and when 0:27:21.760,0:27:25.679 that x month time frame hits 0:27:23.919,0:27:27.039 if we have stuff left over we put that 0:27:25.679,0:27:28.559 into clearance to try and move it as 0:27:27.039,0:27:30.960 quickly as possible so we can move on to 0:27:28.559,0:27:33.039 the next limited edition collar right 0:27:30.960,0:27:34.880 so it winds up being sort of a fraction 0:27:33.039,0:27:36.320 of a fraction of a fraction of the total 0:27:34.880,0:27:37.440 inventory that's available at a 0:27:36.320,0:27:38.799 discounted rate 0:27:37.440,0:27:40.000 so you always have that sort of entry 0:27:38.799,0:27:41.200 point for people that are a little bit 0:27:40.000,0:27:42.559 price sensitive 0:27:41.200,0:27:44.320 so if they come to the i mean if you go 0:27:42.559,0:27:47.200 today i think there's 0:27:44.320,0:27:48.640 six women's shoes and two or three men 0:27:47.200,0:27:50.000 shoot the clearance center 0:27:48.640,0:27:51.679 and they're pretty broken in terms of 0:27:50.000,0:27:53.120 the size run right so it gets people in 0:27:51.679,0:27:54.799 the habit of coming back to the site if 0:27:53.120,0:27:56.159 they see a color that they like 0:27:54.799,0:27:57.600 right gets them in the habit of paying 0:27:56.159,0:27:58.880 full price if they like it now you 0:27:57.600,0:27:59.679 better get it because it's not coming 0:27:58.880,0:28:02.480 back 0:27:59.679,0:28:02.960 right um but if if you want to temp fate 0:28:02.480,0:28:04.640 you can 0:28:02.960,0:28:05.919 you can wait it out and see what happens 0:28:04.640,0:28:07.360 right maybe it'll be available in your 0:28:05.919,0:28:07.760 size it's a little bit of roll the dice 0:28:07.360,0:28:09.520 we'll say 0:28:07.760,0:28:11.360 right you know and then it's true 0:28:09.520,0:28:14.960 scarcity right it's not 0:28:11.360,0:28:17.279 fake it's not games yeah 0:28:14.960,0:28:19.679 um so we're having a conversation again 0:28:17.279,0:28:21.520 like is is it is a time-bound structure 0:28:19.679,0:28:23.279 the right structure or should it be 0:28:21.520,0:28:25.279 when we hit a certain break point in 0:28:23.279,0:28:26.480 terms of the size run breakage or should 0:28:25.279,0:28:28.320 it be 0:28:26.480,0:28:31.120 when a certain number or even left in 0:28:28.320,0:28:32.720 that skew total in inventory 0:28:31.120,0:28:34.000 it's an interesting internal debate 0:28:32.720,0:28:35.600 hopefully within the next couple weeks 0:28:34.000,0:28:36.320 we can finally align on the right path 0:28:35.600,0:28:38.720 forward 0:28:36.320,0:28:40.240 right um but you know i think we went we 0:28:38.720,0:28:41.440 went multiple months with nothing in 0:28:40.240,0:28:42.480 those clearance centers they were still 0:28:41.440,0:28:44.000 up the whole time 0:28:42.480,0:28:45.679 but the men's in particular you know 0:28:44.000,0:28:48.000 we've got about half as many skus and 0:28:45.679,0:28:49.520 men's as we do in women's anyway 0:28:48.000,0:28:51.520 i think there were six months where we 0:28:49.520,0:28:54.799 had no men's shoes on discount 0:28:51.520,0:28:55.679 so we tend to use our um point system as 0:28:54.799,0:28:57.600 a means to 0:28:55.679,0:28:58.960 to increase offers so like black friday 0:28:57.600,0:29:00.559 cyber monday we're just going to do i 0:28:58.960,0:29:01.840 think we've done three deals all 0:29:00.559,0:29:04.880 year this year for mother's day for 0:29:01.840,0:29:06.399 father's day we did three x points and 0:29:04.880,0:29:06.880 points are about we think it's a five 0:29:06.399,0:29:09.039 percent 0:29:06.880,0:29:10.080 um you earn five percent cash back in 0:29:09.039,0:29:12.720 your account right 0:29:10.080,0:29:14.080 so 15 during those weekends and then 0:29:12.720,0:29:15.200 memorial day we did 10 0:29:14.080,0:29:16.559 off our dress shoes it didn't even 0:29:15.200,0:29:18.080 really move the needle you know those 0:29:16.559,0:29:19.440 are the things that we don't sell really 0:29:18.080,0:29:20.880 quick we're just we're not a dress shoe 0:29:19.440,0:29:22.799 company right now we're 0:29:20.880,0:29:24.559 a vast majority of our of our 0:29:22.799,0:29:27.840 inventories and sneakers and 0:29:24.559,0:29:29.440 casual wear and you know is it is it 0:29:27.840,0:29:31.360 complicated to do dress shoes because i 0:29:29.440,0:29:33.200 feel like dress shoes you'd be more 0:29:31.360,0:29:35.360 likely to have foot pain 0:29:33.200,0:29:38.240 with dress shoes or work shoes like is 0:29:35.360,0:29:41.600 that a difficult category to get into 0:29:38.240,0:29:44.000 you know it's uh more difficult to 0:29:41.600,0:29:45.520 design something that uh that looks like 0:29:44.000,0:29:46.480 a traditional dress shoe and has our 0:29:45.520,0:29:48.159 technology in it 0:29:46.480,0:29:49.760 i'll say that if you go to our site 0:29:48.159,0:29:52.880 today and look at like our 0:29:49.760,0:29:54.320 um you know our cap toe or our uh 0:29:52.880,0:29:56.720 some of the men's dress shoes in 0:29:54.320,0:29:58.559 particular um like our chukka 0:29:56.720,0:29:59.840 it looks pretty cool it still looks like 0:29:58.559,0:30:01.360 a chukka boot 0:29:59.840,0:30:03.039 but in the more traditional dress shoes 0:30:01.360,0:30:05.520 it's definitely harder for someone like 0:30:03.039,0:30:07.679 me who's my age and is used to wearing 0:30:05.520,0:30:08.720 you know extra wire z brand it just 0:30:07.679,0:30:10.799 doesn't because you know those are 0:30:08.720,0:30:13.120 leather built you get the leather 0:30:10.799,0:30:14.399 leather soles you know you get a welted 0:30:13.120,0:30:16.559 a fully welted 0:30:14.399,0:30:17.919 sole it's like it's just it looks 0:30:16.559,0:30:19.600 different because it's it's 0:30:17.919,0:30:21.200 it's more like a sneaker underneath and 0:30:19.600,0:30:23.360 so but that's i mean 0:30:21.200,0:30:25.200 there's the that whole hybrid category 0:30:23.360,0:30:27.200 of sort of dress sneakers 0:30:25.200,0:30:28.399 um you know yeah we launched if you go 0:30:27.200,0:30:29.919 to the site today and look up 0:30:28.399,0:30:31.919 the men's and women's room it's kind of 0:30:29.919,0:30:32.640 a classic quartz sneaker the old fred 0:30:31.919,0:30:34.320 perry look 0:30:32.640,0:30:35.760 those have been around forever in the 0:30:34.320,0:30:37.279 silicon valley right like 0:30:35.760,0:30:39.039 that was the dr that was the sort of 0:30:37.279,0:30:39.520 dress shoe du jour with a pair of blue 0:30:39.039,0:30:42.000 jeans 0:30:39.520,0:30:44.080 is a pair of white or black or blue or 0:30:42.000,0:30:46.159 gray patagonia vest 0:30:44.080,0:30:48.240 and the pattern cutting fast exactly 0:30:46.159,0:30:50.559 right i mean that was that was the 0:30:48.240,0:30:52.159 that's the uniform right and so 0:30:50.559,0:30:54.640 it's not like we're coming there's 0:30:52.159,0:30:56.480 definitely a good business for us to be 0:30:54.640,0:30:58.000 um one of the things that we've talked 0:30:56.480,0:30:59.200 about historically is kind of owning the 0:30:58.000,0:31:01.440 closet you know we get 0:30:59.200,0:31:03.120 our customers become really ra rabid 0:31:01.440,0:31:04.960 fans of crew and 0:31:03.120,0:31:06.720 they're like why aren't you launching 0:31:04.960,0:31:08.240 your technology in this type of shoe or 0:31:06.720,0:31:10.480 this type of shoe at this time 0:31:08.240,0:31:11.840 and so we've talked for a while around 0:31:10.480,0:31:13.200 you know is the philosophy that we 0:31:11.840,0:31:15.360 really want to own the closet 0:31:13.200,0:31:17.760 and sort of offer one of everything or 0:31:15.360,0:31:19.840 is the the philosophy more about 0:31:17.760,0:31:21.360 focused concentration on as few skews as 0:31:19.840,0:31:24.080 possible that are really going to 0:31:21.360,0:31:25.600 help us grow and both of those are 0:31:24.080,0:31:27.440 viable business strategies we just have 0:31:25.600,0:31:29.840 to figure out what the plan is 0:31:27.440,0:31:31.919 yeah yeah when it comes to like 0:31:29.840,0:31:33.039 inventory forecasting i remember i was 0:31:31.919,0:31:34.960 in-house with a 0:31:33.039,0:31:36.559 uh with a brand that was a sold 0:31:34.960,0:31:37.919 supplements and stuff like that 0:31:36.559,0:31:39.679 yeah and at the time i was trying to 0:31:37.919,0:31:41.519 figure out how to do inventory 0:31:39.679,0:31:42.159 forecasting and it was like surprisingly 0:31:41.519,0:31:44.880 difficult 0:31:42.159,0:31:46.640 i think like netsuite was the only thing 0:31:44.880,0:31:49.200 i could find that did it 0:31:46.640,0:31:51.679 um is that something are there good 0:31:49.200,0:31:54.240 tools for that these days 0:31:51.679,0:31:54.880 if there are i don't know about them yet 0:31:54.240,0:31:56.640 um 0:31:54.880,0:31:58.320 and i will say we are in the process of 0:31:56.640,0:31:59.919 hiring someone to 0:31:58.320,0:32:01.679 be in a dedicated role that will own 0:31:59.919,0:32:02.240 that responsibility so supply chain 0:32:01.679,0:32:04.399 manager 0:32:02.240,0:32:06.240 i saw yeah you got a senior supply chain 0:32:04.399,0:32:08.080 manager role that's posted 0:32:06.240,0:32:09.919 um you know when i first got here i was 0:32:08.080,0:32:11.760 focused on trying to fix the fixing the 0:32:09.919,0:32:14.320 marketing and fixing some of the ecom 0:32:11.760,0:32:15.760 issues and then over the last four or 0:32:14.320,0:32:17.360 five months now i've been part of this 0:32:15.760,0:32:19.279 weekly meeting where we talk about 0:32:17.360,0:32:20.559 inventory planning and ordering and 0:32:19.279,0:32:23.440 forecasting 0:32:20.559,0:32:24.480 um so we're um institutionally our 0:32:23.440,0:32:26.159 organization we're much more 0:32:24.480,0:32:26.960 cross-functional than we were before and 0:32:26.159,0:32:28.240 so 0:32:26.960,0:32:29.600 it's been great to be part of those 0:32:28.240,0:32:31.120 conversations and that's where i've been 0:32:29.600,0:32:31.919 sort of driving this limited edition 0:32:31.120,0:32:35.279 philosophy 0:32:31.919,0:32:37.440 and um how we want to manage um 0:32:35.279,0:32:38.559 i'd say we're better than ever before by 0:32:37.440,0:32:40.480 far um 0:32:38.559,0:32:42.240 but when covet i mean your your original 0:32:40.480,0:32:44.880 question around kovid too like how 0:32:42.240,0:32:47.279 how are we affected by that yeah um 0:32:44.880,0:32:49.519 transparently we 0:32:47.279,0:32:50.880 we had a great february it was the best 0:32:49.519,0:32:53.360 february we'd ever had 0:32:50.880,0:32:56.080 um as a company and we were on pace to 0:32:53.360,0:32:59.200 have a really great march and covid hit 0:32:56.080,0:32:59.600 and we reacted i reacted i take full 0:32:59.200,0:33:01.200 resp 0:32:59.600,0:33:03.360 we sort of drew down on spend quite a 0:33:01.200,0:33:05.120 bit just like hey let's just be cautious 0:33:03.360,0:33:07.279 so march was a little bit of a dip but 0:33:05.120,0:33:08.640 again focused on the bottom line instead 0:33:07.279,0:33:10.799 of the top line growth 0:33:08.640,0:33:13.039 april took off like crazy may was the 0:33:10.799,0:33:15.360 best month ever for the company 0:33:13.039,0:33:16.559 and then we hit the summertime month 0:33:15.360,0:33:19.760 where 0:33:16.559,0:33:21.360 we started to i started to worry frankly 0:33:19.760,0:33:23.360 i always think about inventory as like 0:33:21.360,0:33:25.200 the road ahead and and the last thing we 0:33:23.360,0:33:27.039 want to be doing is continuing to 0:33:25.200,0:33:29.120 to push to create demand when we know 0:33:27.039,0:33:31.039 we're going to run out of road ahead 0:33:29.120,0:33:32.559 so we sort of deliberately lifted off on 0:33:31.039,0:33:33.760 the accelerate a little bit and sort of 0:33:32.559,0:33:34.480 coasted through the summer months to 0:33:33.760,0:33:35.760 give us 0:33:34.480,0:33:37.600 because it takes us time to get 0:33:35.760,0:33:41.279 inventory from overseas 0:33:37.600,0:33:44.559 um it's like 90 to 100 days um 0:33:41.279,0:33:44.960 it's pretty bad so due in july and 0:33:44.559,0:33:46.720 august 0:33:44.960,0:33:48.320 we still had great months especially 0:33:46.720,0:33:49.840 when you think about how much we had 0:33:48.320,0:33:52.000 actually available to sell from an 0:33:49.840,0:33:53.919 inventory perspective and now we're just 0:33:52.000,0:33:55.600 now it's back you know pedal to metal 0:33:53.919,0:33:56.720 just slammed you know if you 0:33:55.600,0:33:58.240 been to the site you're going to start 0:33:56.720,0:33:59.519 seeing all kind of stuff on facebook and 0:33:58.240,0:34:00.960 youtube and right we're going to reach 0:33:59.519,0:34:02.640 right back out of you but 0:34:00.960,0:34:04.640 so we're spending everywhere to kind of 0:34:02.640,0:34:06.640 continue to really drive this month's 0:34:04.640,0:34:08.079 a killer month i'm really looking 0:34:06.640,0:34:09.359 forward to finishing out the year strong 0:34:08.079,0:34:11.760 through q4 but it 0:34:09.359,0:34:13.440 that was a real learning for me of like 0:34:11.760,0:34:14.879 you know where do you turn stuff off we 0:34:13.440,0:34:16.240 actually turned facebook completely off 0:34:14.879,0:34:18.879 for a couple weeks 0:34:16.240,0:34:20.320 um because we were you know the thought 0:34:18.879,0:34:21.520 was why would you pay to create demand 0:34:20.320,0:34:23.040 you can't satisfy 0:34:21.520,0:34:25.440 right it just doesn't make any sense at 0:34:23.040,0:34:25.919 all and so yeah by doing that we got to 0:34:25.440,0:34:28.800 learn 0:34:25.919,0:34:30.240 really directly what other channels 0:34:28.800,0:34:32.240 facebook was influencing into what 0:34:30.240,0:34:34.480 degree they were influencing at 0:34:32.240,0:34:36.639 um this is a great you know it's been a 0:34:34.480,0:34:38.800 killer year in terms of learnings for us 0:34:36.639,0:34:40.079 yeah when it comes to supply chain do 0:34:38.800,0:34:41.839 you see 0:34:40.079,0:34:43.520 do you things do you see things with the 0:34:41.839,0:34:43.839 economic and political situation do you 0:34:43.520,0:34:47.040 think 0:34:43.839,0:34:48.720 see things reshuffling i know some 0:34:47.040,0:34:50.480 supply chain is going from china to 0:34:48.720,0:34:53.760 vietnam that kind of a thing 0:34:50.480,0:34:55.119 um do you see things shifting 0:34:53.760,0:34:57.839 significantly 0:34:55.119,0:35:00.960 um or is it like hey things once things 0:34:57.839,0:35:02.800 kind of went back to normal demand wise 0:35:00.960,0:35:04.400 uh brands like you guys would kind of 0:35:02.800,0:35:04.960 fire back up with the existing supply 0:35:04.400,0:35:07.680 chain 0:35:04.960,0:35:10.000 yeah we actually had been in the process 0:35:07.680,0:35:13.280 of diversifying our supply chain before 0:35:10.000,0:35:14.400 this hit um you know i 0:35:13.280,0:35:17.359 wasn't part of all of those 0:35:14.400,0:35:18.560 conversations um but uh 0:35:17.359,0:35:20.079 we're in the process of actually 0:35:18.560,0:35:21.040 spinning up a new factory relationship 0:35:20.079,0:35:22.560 in vietnam 0:35:21.040,0:35:24.720 the pro the challenge there is it 0:35:22.560,0:35:26.400 actually created it creates another 10 0:35:24.720,0:35:27.599 days on the water to get to hong kong to 0:35:26.400,0:35:30.640 get here so it's 0:35:27.599,0:35:33.200 you know it's it's yeah 0:35:30.640,0:35:34.320 it's it's the dynamics are super 0:35:33.200,0:35:36.880 interesting right i keep 0:35:34.320,0:35:38.160 um me being you know i have no footwear 0:35:36.880,0:35:39.200 experience at all and so i come into 0:35:38.160,0:35:40.320 business like hey can't we get these 0:35:39.200,0:35:41.839 made somewhere else 0:35:40.320,0:35:44.560 like can we go to mexico and have these 0:35:41.839,0:35:46.160 do we like 3d print these or something 0:35:44.560,0:35:48.960 anywhere else other than where it is 0:35:46.160,0:35:51.920 just because if i want to order 0:35:48.960,0:35:52.560 you know a replenishment of x colorway 0:35:51.920,0:35:53.839 it just 0:35:52.560,0:35:56.000 takes forever right if we missed the 0:35:53.839,0:35:59.280 boat and forgot to do something or 0:35:56.000,0:36:01.200 yeah it's a harsh mistress i mean you 0:35:59.280,0:36:02.880 get penalized quickly right if you don't 0:36:01.200,0:36:04.240 if you're not really on the forefront of 0:36:02.880,0:36:05.680 leading that and so 0:36:04.240,0:36:07.680 yeah the way i keep thinking about it 0:36:05.680,0:36:11.119 and i'm not sure i'm right about it but 0:36:07.680,0:36:13.680 my simple guy mind is like um 0:36:11.119,0:36:15.280 i think of it as a wave form right so oh 0:36:13.680,0:36:16.560 inventory's high now it's low let's 0:36:15.280,0:36:18.000 place a big reorder and then it goes 0:36:16.560,0:36:20.000 high again and i always i want to just 0:36:18.000,0:36:21.040 kind of do this i want to have many more 0:36:20.000,0:36:23.200 frequent orders 0:36:21.040,0:36:25.040 of smaller batch quantities and 0:36:23.200,0:36:27.200 constantly be trying to predict and 0:36:25.040,0:36:30.160 learn from what just happened 0:36:27.200,0:36:31.680 from a demand perspective oh you know 0:36:30.160,0:36:32.640 the keep the thing i keep thinking about 0:36:31.680,0:36:34.240 for next year is 0:36:32.640,0:36:36.079 when we go and start pushing into new 0:36:34.240,0:36:38.480 channels let's say i can effectuate 0:36:36.079,0:36:40.160 a 25 increase in demand i can't just 0:36:38.480,0:36:41.440 turn that on 0:36:40.160,0:36:43.200 it's going to put us right back where we 0:36:41.440,0:36:44.000 were in june and july right like what 0:36:43.200,0:36:45.760 what if we go 0:36:44.000,0:36:48.000 do radio spots or we do podcast 0:36:45.760,0:36:49.920 sponsorships whatever we're going to do 0:36:48.000,0:36:52.560 i have to be responsible about the 0:36:49.920,0:36:54.800 pacing of when we start to roll that out 0:36:52.560,0:36:55.760 so we can let inventory catch up to that 0:36:54.800,0:36:57.520 increase in demand 0:36:55.760,0:36:59.119 right we can't just do a nationwide 0:36:57.520,0:37:01.680 thing and 0:36:59.119,0:37:03.280 it's not a good use of uh funds and 0:37:01.680,0:37:05.119 resources yeah 0:37:03.280,0:37:06.800 i keep wondering like i know nothing 0:37:05.119,0:37:08.640 about manufacturing anything like that 0:37:06.800,0:37:10.160 but i keep wondering like when is like 0:37:08.640,0:37:12.640 3d printing 0:37:10.160,0:37:14.160 uh you know going to be possible at some 0:37:12.640,0:37:16.079 sort of scale like you're talking about 0:37:14.160,0:37:18.720 these smaller batches 0:37:16.079,0:37:20.560 um and like it's got to happen at some 0:37:18.720,0:37:22.880 point maybe it's 50 years out 0:37:20.560,0:37:24.640 you know i have no idea yeah i don't 0:37:22.880,0:37:27.839 know i just 0:37:24.640,0:37:30.400 uh i wish i knew um and 0:37:27.839,0:37:32.079 and even here's what here's the other 0:37:30.400,0:37:33.200 fun story that i get told a lot again i 0:37:32.079,0:37:34.560 haven't been over there to watch it 0:37:33.200,0:37:36.640 myself but 0:37:34.560,0:37:38.320 um you know we're now hiring a lot of 0:37:36.640,0:37:38.560 people from within the footwear space 0:37:38.320,0:37:39.839 and 0:37:38.560,0:37:41.440 obviously our ceo's been doing this for 0:37:39.839,0:37:43.359 a long time and he talks to a ton of 0:37:41.440,0:37:44.960 people who are really tapped in 0:37:43.359,0:37:46.480 and the story that i keep hearing i'm 0:37:44.960,0:37:47.359 not going to name the specific name but 0:37:46.480,0:37:48.560 one of the major 0:37:47.359,0:37:50.320 you know let's call them tier two 0:37:48.560,0:37:52.160 manufacturers in this in the in the in 0:37:50.320,0:37:54.480 the sneaker market 0:37:52.160,0:37:56.400 making all of their shoes one of their 0:37:54.480,0:38:00.079 best selling shoes in china 0:37:56.400,0:38:02.079 and they migrated manufacturing to a new 0:38:00.079,0:38:03.520 a new facility in vietnam owned by the 0:38:02.079,0:38:05.520 same parent 0:38:03.520,0:38:07.280 china sent over all their top employees 0:38:05.520,0:38:08.560 to vietnam to make sure it went well and 0:38:07.280,0:38:11.760 they still didn't get it right 0:38:08.560,0:38:12.480 it took a year for the fit and the 0:38:11.760,0:38:14.160 sizing 0:38:12.480,0:38:15.920 for everything to come all the sort of 0:38:14.160,0:38:17.280 errors and things like that to kind of 0:38:15.920,0:38:19.200 get worked out like 0:38:17.280,0:38:21.599 right footwear is just one of those 0:38:19.200,0:38:23.280 really weird things where 0:38:21.599,0:38:24.880 you think that's just a half a size 0:38:23.280,0:38:26.720 right a half a size is like the length 0:38:24.880,0:38:28.640 of when you stack four credit cards on 0:38:26.720,0:38:30.240 top of each other it's four millimeters 0:38:28.640,0:38:32.320 that's a half a size 0:38:30.240,0:38:33.760 and if i put one half size different on 0:38:32.320,0:38:35.200 your feet you would absolutely 0:38:33.760,0:38:35.920 immediately know whether it fit right or 0:38:35.200,0:38:38.720 not 0:38:35.920,0:38:40.480 right and so like nailing the fit and 0:38:38.720,0:38:42.240 nailing the manufacturing process and 0:38:40.480,0:38:43.920 doing it 0:38:42.240,0:38:45.520 even across to if you had you know 0:38:43.920,0:38:47.280 sourcing in two different factories 0:38:45.520,0:38:48.960 especially in two different countries 0:38:47.280,0:38:51.599 for the shoe you're calling the same 0:38:48.960,0:38:53.520 thing it just it's 0:38:51.599,0:38:54.800 six is whether they come out you know 0:38:53.520,0:38:57.200 the same and so 0:38:54.800,0:38:58.079 yeah now imagine try to do that with a 0:38:57.200,0:39:00.480 3d printer 0:38:58.079,0:39:02.320 right instead of a more industrialized 0:39:00.480,0:39:03.839 manufacturing process that is in theory 0:39:02.320,0:39:05.680 all the same right so 0:39:03.839,0:39:06.880 yeah yeah i don't know what i don't know 0:39:05.680,0:39:08.480 about it but it's just it's a 0:39:06.880,0:39:10.640 fascinating business man 0:39:08.480,0:39:11.520 it is fun digging in and learning about 0:39:10.640,0:39:13.280 it myself 0:39:11.520,0:39:15.359 that's awesome you kind of touched on 0:39:13.280,0:39:16.880 this a little bit talking about kind of 0:39:15.359,0:39:18.320 cross departmental 0:39:16.880,0:39:19.760 improving kind of the way your 0:39:18.320,0:39:20.960 departments speak to each other and you 0:39:19.760,0:39:23.040 posted about your 0:39:20.960,0:39:24.720 customer team talking regularly with 0:39:23.040,0:39:27.760 your product team 0:39:24.720,0:39:29.839 and being excited about that how do you 0:39:27.760,0:39:30.800 get those dialogues going between the 0:39:29.839,0:39:32.480 teams 0:39:30.800,0:39:33.920 and what are some of the benefits that 0:39:32.480,0:39:37.359 you're seeing 0:39:33.920,0:39:41.040 that's a great question um it was 0:39:37.359,0:39:43.920 um i at the end of the day 0:39:41.040,0:39:45.839 the way we've done it is it's great that 0:39:43.920,0:39:47.680 the customer team reports to me so i can 0:39:45.839,0:39:48.400 just ask them hey let's get back in the 0:39:47.680,0:39:49.599 habit 0:39:48.400,0:39:51.520 so there's the first part of the 0:39:49.599,0:39:52.640 management process is managing them to 0:39:51.520,0:39:53.680 make sure that they're capturing and 0:39:52.640,0:39:55.119 having those conversations they have 0:39:53.680,0:39:57.280 them all the time 0:39:55.119,0:39:59.200 when i arrived i think those barriers 0:39:57.280,0:40:01.119 were pretty well established and things 0:39:59.200,0:40:03.520 were happening in silos and 0:40:01.119,0:40:05.040 um they tried sort of capturing that 0:40:03.520,0:40:06.400 data and forwarding it along but it 0:40:05.040,0:40:07.920 wasn't being used and so they stopped 0:40:06.400,0:40:10.640 doing it right and so 0:40:07.920,0:40:11.839 um i i think it's it's it's the first 0:40:10.640,0:40:14.240 thing is to model it 0:40:11.839,0:40:16.480 personally and model it in in my team on 0:40:14.240,0:40:19.119 the marketing and ecom side and so 0:40:16.480,0:40:20.160 we actually created i just i feel like 0:40:19.119,0:40:22.400 i'm running this whole business on a 0:40:20.160,0:40:24.960 bunch of google sheets at this point but 0:40:22.400,0:40:26.720 we created a new google sheet uh no one 0:40:24.960,0:40:28.079 inside of crew is going to be surprised 0:40:26.720,0:40:30.000 that that's the answer 0:40:28.079,0:40:31.680 um and inside that sheet there's 0:40:30.000,0:40:33.760 multiple tabs and we've got 0:40:31.680,0:40:35.200 um those those frontline folks that you 0:40:33.760,0:40:37.520 mentioned right they're dealing with 0:40:35.200,0:40:38.079 people in chat and sms and email and 0:40:37.520,0:40:41.040 social 0:40:38.079,0:40:42.079 and phone and that's a great place for 0:40:41.040,0:40:43.599 us to have 0:40:42.079,0:40:45.440 uh to capture that feedback from 0:40:43.599,0:40:46.000 customers and so we have a product tab 0:40:45.440,0:40:48.720 where they 0:40:46.000,0:40:49.680 capture product feedback and then on the 0:40:48.720,0:40:51.760 ecom side 0:40:49.680,0:40:54.079 we have a different um you know we have 0:40:51.760,0:40:55.440 a bugs channel inside of um slack so 0:40:54.079,0:40:56.880 anytime anything goes wrong it gets 0:40:55.440,0:40:58.640 reported through a customer like that 0:40:56.880,0:40:59.839 gets visibility immediately my team 0:40:58.640,0:41:01.839 accepts it 0:40:59.839,0:41:03.200 um immediately actions it and then you 0:41:01.839,0:41:04.800 know reports back when it's been done 0:41:03.200,0:41:06.640 and reports back what they found 0:41:04.800,0:41:08.079 so that's been super helpful in sort of 0:41:06.640,0:41:09.839 setting that stage around hey we're 0:41:08.079,0:41:11.280 reactive to this kind of feedback and we 0:41:09.839,0:41:12.400 want it and thank you for bringing it to 0:41:11.280,0:41:13.280 our attention because it helps us get 0:41:12.400,0:41:15.520 better 0:41:13.280,0:41:16.800 so that's the first step and we create 0:41:15.520,0:41:20.000 another tab in that google sheet 0:41:16.800,0:41:21.760 for when that same team has ideas for 0:41:20.000,0:41:22.560 how we can improve the the website right 0:41:21.760,0:41:24.079 so they'll say 0:41:22.560,0:41:25.920 wow have you thought about this new 0:41:24.079,0:41:26.720 category or what about this other thing 0:41:25.920,0:41:28.240 or 0:41:26.720,0:41:29.760 you know when you when you click between 0:41:28.240,0:41:33.119 colors sometimes the 0:41:29.760,0:41:34.720 the the the image doesn't swap correctly 0:41:33.119,0:41:35.920 it's like oh my gosh that's a known bug 0:41:34.720,0:41:37.119 thanks for reporting it we're going to 0:41:35.920,0:41:38.560 fix that soon we got a 0:41:37.119,0:41:39.839 you know a project in the queue we've 0:41:38.560,0:41:41.040 got the development team looking at it 0:41:39.839,0:41:42.960 whatever it is 0:41:41.040,0:41:44.319 and so we just we owe them the feedback 0:41:42.960,0:41:46.240 and constantly 0:41:44.319,0:41:48.000 saying hey thanks for that idea let's go 0:41:46.240,0:41:49.359 we're going to prioritize it and 0:41:48.000,0:41:51.760 sometimes the answer is we're not gonna 0:41:49.359,0:41:53.040 do that but let's be transparent about 0:41:51.760,0:41:55.200 why we're not gonna do it 0:41:53.040,0:41:56.560 and don't treat them like kindergartners 0:41:55.200,0:41:57.200 right it's like treat them like adults 0:41:56.560,0:41:59.760 that are bringing 0:41:57.200,0:42:00.240 valuable ideas to the business and i 0:41:59.760,0:42:01.680 think 0:42:00.240,0:42:03.680 you'd be surprised what you'd get out of 0:42:01.680,0:42:05.520 a team like that and so that's created 0:42:03.680,0:42:08.079 that level of engagement and now 0:42:05.520,0:42:09.280 you know me as svp i come in and i say 0:42:08.079,0:42:11.359 hey product team 0:42:09.280,0:42:12.960 here's these 50 ideas that we spent lots 0:42:11.359,0:42:14.640 and lots of time gathering from our 0:42:12.960,0:42:15.280 customers and we've quantified it for 0:42:14.640,0:42:16.480 you 0:42:15.280,0:42:17.920 if there's anything we need to make it 0:42:16.480,0:42:19.440 more actionable from your perspective 0:42:17.920,0:42:20.880 let us know but 0:42:19.440,0:42:22.160 here you go let's have a dialogue about 0:42:20.880,0:42:22.960 what you guys are planning to do with 0:42:22.160,0:42:24.800 this information 0:42:22.960,0:42:26.640 and they've been really receptive to it 0:42:24.800,0:42:29.040 you know that's good 0:42:26.640,0:42:30.800 so if you model it first and then you 0:42:29.040,0:42:32.319 sort of dog-footed a little bit on your 0:42:30.800,0:42:33.839 own team of like hey 0:42:32.319,0:42:35.680 we want that feedback we want to get 0:42:33.839,0:42:36.800 better and that becomes that starts to 0:42:35.680,0:42:38.000 create a 0:42:36.800,0:42:39.280 whole sort of culture inside the 0:42:38.000,0:42:40.319 business where everybody's thinking 0:42:39.280,0:42:42.960 about that the same way 0:42:40.319,0:42:44.560 yeah when it comes to the live chat i 0:42:42.960,0:42:46.079 think you'd mentioned that you were 0:42:44.560,0:42:47.520 thinking about getting rid of it because 0:42:46.079,0:42:50.640 it was a performance 0:42:47.520,0:42:52.640 uh performance hog 0:42:50.640,0:42:54.880 i did notice the chat button on the site 0:42:52.640,0:42:55.839 this morning but it seems like it's a 0:42:54.880,0:42:59.040 it's a paired 0:42:55.839,0:43:01.040 version of the chat yeah yeah we um it's 0:42:59.040,0:43:02.880 funny we just moved from zendesk to 0:43:01.040,0:43:04.480 gladly and could not be happier like 0:43:02.880,0:43:05.280 it's creating efficiencies inside the 0:43:04.480,0:43:08.319 business that 0:43:05.280,0:43:12.000 are phenomenal um my head of 0:43:08.319,0:43:13.359 cx did a full evaluation of everybody in 0:43:12.000,0:43:15.280 that space 0:43:13.359,0:43:17.280 um concluded that gladly and then and 0:43:15.280,0:43:18.640 then manage the the migration i mean it 0:43:17.280,0:43:19.839 went as smoothly as anything like that 0:43:18.640,0:43:22.400 i've ever seen and so 0:43:19.839,0:43:23.680 kudos to him he's doing a great job and 0:43:22.400,0:43:24.240 that whole team is doing a great job as 0:43:23.680,0:43:27.680 well 0:43:24.240,0:43:29.040 got a lot of reporting in there i think 0:43:27.680,0:43:30.160 there's a whole site speed initiative 0:43:29.040,0:43:31.599 we're going to be focused on for next 0:43:30.160,0:43:33.440 year where i do want to revisit that 0:43:31.599,0:43:36.480 chat like what are the triggers 0:43:33.440,0:43:38.240 do we just move to a full sms based um 0:43:36.480,0:43:39.680 you know conversation where it's like 0:43:38.240,0:43:41.680 it's constantly it's persistent it 0:43:39.680,0:43:42.079 doesn't pop proactively but if you need 0:43:41.680,0:43:44.240 to 0:43:42.079,0:43:46.000 message someone and then we manage sms 0:43:44.240,0:43:47.520 as though it's chat it's real time 0:43:46.000,0:43:48.880 right we staff it so if you're going to 0:43:47.520,0:43:50.079 send us a message we're going to answer 0:43:48.880,0:43:54.319 you right away 0:43:50.079,0:43:56.160 um what what would we lose i mean how do 0:43:54.319,0:43:57.440 we then get those more frequently asked 0:43:56.160,0:43:58.800 questions that we don't have to have a 0:43:57.440,0:44:00.160 human interaction that we can get you 0:43:58.800,0:44:03.359 the same answer 0:44:00.160,0:44:05.440 um yeah that's sort of the sidekick i 0:44:03.359,0:44:07.280 think they call it and gladly the little 0:44:05.440,0:44:09.280 little widget that says when you pop it 0:44:07.280,0:44:10.560 up to chat the first four or five things 0:44:09.280,0:44:11.839 we sort of see that were the most 0:44:10.560,0:44:12.880 frequently asked questions like hey are 0:44:11.839,0:44:14.480 you available in stores no we're not 0:44:12.880,0:44:16.720 available in stores here's why 0:44:14.480,0:44:17.920 um so we sort of cut out the middleman 0:44:16.720,0:44:19.520 here's you know we get a better product 0:44:17.920,0:44:22.400 to you for less money 0:44:19.520,0:44:23.119 um we do have a small um corporate 0:44:22.400,0:44:24.960 headquarter 0:44:23.119,0:44:26.319 based sort of um you know retail that 0:44:24.960,0:44:27.839 sits in front but it's closed because 0:44:26.319,0:44:31.200 coped right so 0:44:27.839,0:44:32.880 right um right i'm super interested in 0:44:31.200,0:44:34.079 testing that and exploring it like would 0:44:32.880,0:44:36.960 we lose anything 0:44:34.079,0:44:37.359 if we got rid of chat completely who was 0:44:36.960,0:44:38.960 uh 0:44:37.359,0:44:40.640 who was talking about that race it was 0:44:38.960,0:44:41.440 the beer brand guys it's the same 0:44:40.640,0:44:43.440 interview with 0:44:41.440,0:44:45.200 um with dennis he mentioned the fact 0:44:43.440,0:44:47.359 that they're not doing any chat 0:44:45.200,0:44:48.800 um in his podcast i was super interested 0:44:47.359,0:44:50.000 to learn that it's like i wanna i'd love 0:44:48.800,0:44:51.440 to dig in with him and understand 0:44:50.000,0:44:52.720 what the he feels like they're losing 0:44:51.440,0:44:54.960 from not having it on the site because 0:44:52.720,0:44:56.960 it's a great performer for us 0:44:54.960,0:44:58.400 but man if site speed matters to you 0:44:56.960,0:45:00.319 everywhere i've never seen one that's 0:44:58.400,0:45:03.040 not a resource hawk have you 0:45:00.319,0:45:04.880 right right um i you know that's a good 0:45:03.040,0:45:08.000 question i use uh help scout but i 0:45:04.880,0:45:09.839 i really haven't drilled in as 0:45:08.000,0:45:11.200 carefully as i probably should have on 0:45:09.839,0:45:14.640 some of those performance 0:45:11.200,0:45:14.960 issues um i come from the seo space so 0:45:14.640,0:45:17.920 i'm 0:45:14.960,0:45:20.160 super like you know it's site speed is 0:45:17.920,0:45:23.920 like a major major issue in my mind 0:45:20.160,0:45:25.599 all the time and um i don't know it's 0:45:23.920,0:45:28.000 it's tempting it's very tempting to just 0:45:25.599,0:45:29.920 turn it off and go sms completely 0:45:28.000,0:45:31.920 yeah what are uh what are some of the 0:45:29.920,0:45:33.440 other things you like about gladly over 0:45:31.920,0:45:36.640 over zendesk for 0:45:33.440,0:45:38.000 for customer support um some of the 0:45:36.640,0:45:40.000 reporting has been excellent 0:45:38.000,0:45:41.680 um a lot of the stuff that we were doing 0:45:40.000,0:45:43.440 through zendesk through a third-party 0:45:41.680,0:45:44.400 plug-in comes native to gladly and so 0:45:43.440,0:45:46.319 that was a big part of the 0:45:44.400,0:45:48.880 decision-making process 0:45:46.319,0:45:50.000 um the scalability for us as we scale 0:45:48.880,0:45:51.200 and you know our we've got pretty 0:45:50.000,0:45:53.599 aggressive growth plans 0:45:51.200,0:45:54.720 um and if we get anywhere near where 0:45:53.599,0:45:56.079 we're going to be you know we want to be 0:45:54.720,0:45:57.760 next year and the year after 0:45:56.079,0:45:59.680 um it's going to be a lot cheaper and 0:45:57.760,0:46:01.359 zendesk looks better when you sort of 0:45:59.680,0:46:03.599 look at it initially but 0:46:01.359,0:46:04.800 um the minutes start to price and scale 0:46:03.599,0:46:06.240 up yeah 0:46:04.800,0:46:08.240 yeah like that was a big that was a big 0:46:06.240,0:46:09.920 part of the cost structure within zen 0:46:08.240,0:46:11.599 uh we were super happy with zen too that 0:46:09.920,0:46:13.280 was the thing it's not like you know 0:46:11.599,0:46:14.800 he was ready to sign another year and i 0:46:13.280,0:46:15.520 asked i challenged him i said you know 0:46:14.800,0:46:17.040 are you have you 0:46:15.520,0:46:18.160 looked at everybody else he's like no i 0:46:17.040,0:46:19.200 really haven't i said well maybe you 0:46:18.160,0:46:20.720 should yeah 0:46:19.200,0:46:22.720 yeah and so here we are a year later 0:46:20.720,0:46:24.560 he's you know or he's super happy i mean 0:46:22.720,0:46:25.680 the team's very happy the workflows that 0:46:24.560,0:46:27.200 it creates 0:46:25.680,0:46:29.599 one of the things that we really really 0:46:27.200,0:46:31.200 like is if you interact at all with one 0:46:29.599,0:46:32.880 of our team members 0:46:31.200,0:46:34.480 and go into any other channel and it 0:46:32.880,0:46:36.000 recognizes you it tries to connect you 0:46:34.480,0:46:37.760 with that same team member so you now 0:46:36.000,0:46:40.160 have almost more of a one-to-one sort of 0:46:37.760,0:46:41.760 a hero 0:46:40.160,0:46:43.680 to be able to deal with that specific 0:46:41.760,0:46:47.040 person i love that 0:46:43.680,0:46:48.560 um just as a consumer when i'm in in 0:46:47.040,0:46:50.079 dealing with some other companies 0:46:48.560,0:46:52.640 whether it was faked or real it felt 0:46:50.079,0:46:55.440 real to me so they handled it 0:46:52.640,0:46:56.800 i recall specifically um buying an 0:46:55.440,0:46:58.000 electric guitar for my oldest for 0:46:56.800,0:46:59.280 christmas a couple years ago from 0:46:58.000,0:47:01.680 sweetwater 0:46:59.280,0:47:03.440 and the person that the order 0:47:01.680,0:47:04.960 confirmation email came from the person 0:47:03.440,0:47:06.640 that i interacted with while i was 0:47:04.960,0:47:09.760 asking some questions in chat i was like 0:47:06.640,0:47:10.160 whoa that's pretty cool yeah yeah and 0:47:09.760,0:47:11.680 then 0:47:10.160,0:47:12.800 you know a year later he follows up it's 0:47:11.680,0:47:13.839 like anything else you need i'm like oh 0:47:12.800,0:47:16.000 man that's great 0:47:13.839,0:47:17.760 you know yeah yeah that is smart i was 0:47:16.000,0:47:18.640 recently getting some support for a 0:47:17.760,0:47:21.359 budgeting app 0:47:18.640,0:47:23.119 and there's some email support and then 0:47:21.359,0:47:26.319 uh the person did a 0:47:23.119,0:47:28.319 video response and i was having a hard 0:47:26.319,0:47:30.640 time reconciling my accounts 0:47:28.319,0:47:31.839 she did a video thing with her voice you 0:47:30.640,0:47:33.920 know voice over express 0:47:31.839,0:47:36.319 six minute video and then another like 0:47:33.920,0:47:38.240 seven and i felt such a like 0:47:36.319,0:47:39.760 connection like afterwards i tweeted i 0:47:38.240,0:47:41.920 was like oh you were great 0:47:39.760,0:47:43.040 and i just i felt such a connection 0:47:41.920,0:47:45.599 especially with the the 0:47:43.040,0:47:46.640 hearing the voice of that one individual 0:47:45.599,0:47:48.640 support rep that was 0:47:46.640,0:47:50.240 it's it's one i've again listened to 0:47:48.640,0:47:52.640 some really fascinating 0:47:50.240,0:47:54.240 podcasts recently talking about that as 0:47:52.640,0:47:58.079 well and i was like um 0:47:54.240,0:47:59.680 like that's really um attempting to want 0:47:58.079,0:48:02.079 to go test something like that like 0:47:59.680,0:48:03.119 is there a way to get scale where we 0:48:02.079,0:48:05.200 could have our team 0:48:03.119,0:48:06.480 just record quick videos or audio 0:48:05.200,0:48:08.160 voiceovers we just had 0:48:06.480,0:48:09.839 everyone had a new headshot created 0:48:08.160,0:48:11.440 that's kind of on brand having some fun 0:48:09.839,0:48:12.960 with the shoes as part of their headshot 0:48:11.440,0:48:14.480 that's now injected in part you know 0:48:12.960,0:48:16.559 every time we email from our customer 0:48:14.480,0:48:18.160 team you get that headshot 0:48:16.559,0:48:19.760 just the whole personal like putting a 0:48:18.160,0:48:20.079 human connect putting a human to the 0:48:19.760,0:48:22.400 face 0:48:20.079,0:48:23.680 of the the brand it's just one of those 0:48:22.400,0:48:24.720 things especially it's part of our 0:48:23.680,0:48:26.160 definite um 0:48:24.720,0:48:27.920 you know brand ethos of who we want to 0:48:26.160,0:48:29.359 be we want to be human you know human to 0:48:27.920,0:48:32.240 human and one-to-one 0:48:29.359,0:48:34.720 more so than sort of a big huge 0:48:32.240,0:48:35.920 corporate facade it's not us you know 0:48:34.720,0:48:38.160 hopefully it never will yeah 0:48:35.920,0:48:40.960 yeah that actually ties in greatly to 0:48:38.160,0:48:43.040 this this last uh question i got for you 0:48:40.960,0:48:45.040 uh you posted your favorite uh business 0:48:43.040,0:48:46.960 one of your favorite business quotes 0:48:45.040,0:48:48.480 uh do what we love in the service of 0:48:46.960,0:48:50.640 people who love what they do 0:48:48.480,0:48:52.480 yeah i i love that and i just want to 0:48:50.640,0:48:55.359 know more about what that means to you 0:48:52.480,0:48:55.680 uh it's just it's it i think it couples 0:48:55.359,0:48:57.200 in 0:48:55.680,0:48:59.839 you know i've been doing this for a long 0:48:57.200,0:49:02.319 time um i'm an old fuddy duddy and 0:48:59.839,0:49:03.839 you come to sort of accept these 0:49:02.319,0:49:04.880 business principles as you know 0:49:03.839,0:49:06.000 the things that you've learned down 0:49:04.880,0:49:07.680 through the years and one of the things 0:49:06.000,0:49:09.599 that i really loved was um 0:49:07.680,0:49:11.040 you know the the the angus gallup that 0:49:09.599,0:49:12.480 owns the now discover your strengths the 0:49:11.040,0:49:15.200 strengths find it right of like 0:49:12.480,0:49:16.000 this whole principle of don't try to 0:49:15.200,0:49:18.800 solve things 0:49:16.000,0:49:19.040 you're you're bad at yourself go higher 0:49:18.800,0:49:20.319 and 0:49:19.040,0:49:22.400 and supplement that with other team 0:49:20.319,0:49:24.240 members that are really good at it 0:49:22.400,0:49:25.839 but lean into your strengths become 0:49:24.240,0:49:28.559 really really good at what you do 0:49:25.839,0:49:30.160 and and that whole concept of being so 0:49:28.559,0:49:32.480 human that um 0:49:30.160,0:49:34.480 you know when you're working in 0:49:32.480,0:49:36.720 especially in sort of a startup driven 0:49:34.480,0:49:37.680 you know aggressive culture like we have 0:49:36.720,0:49:38.800 at crew 0:49:37.680,0:49:40.800 even though we're not a startup you know 0:49:38.800,0:49:43.440 we're 12 years old now but 0:49:40.800,0:49:45.200 um you're going to work more you're 0:49:43.440,0:49:47.200 going to see those people in theory if 0:49:45.200,0:49:48.880 we're all working in an office 0:49:47.200,0:49:50.319 more than anyone other than your 0:49:48.880,0:49:53.520 significant other or your family 0:49:50.319,0:49:55.760 right you should be able to 0:49:53.520,0:49:56.800 build a team that really loves working 0:49:55.760,0:49:58.319 together and 0:49:56.800,0:50:00.400 loves being around each other and really 0:49:58.319,0:50:01.839 gets along and um 0:50:00.400,0:50:03.359 and challenges each other as well but 0:50:01.839,0:50:04.240 does it in a very professional way and 0:50:03.359,0:50:06.400 so 0:50:04.240,0:50:08.079 i just i believe that every one of us 0:50:06.400,0:50:10.000 should be focused on and that 0:50:08.079,0:50:11.280 it speaks to the customer connection 0:50:10.000,0:50:13.280 that we have too right that's the one 0:50:11.280,0:50:14.559 thing about crew is we really do solve a 0:50:13.280,0:50:15.440 specific job to be done for our 0:50:14.559,0:50:18.000 customers 0:50:15.440,0:50:20.000 we hear every single day we get reviews 0:50:18.000,0:50:22.000 that are like you changed my life 0:50:20.000,0:50:23.760 like there's if that doesn't get you out 0:50:22.000,0:50:25.359 of bed fired up like wanting to help 0:50:23.760,0:50:26.400 more people with foot pain i don't know 0:50:25.359,0:50:29.599 what will 0:50:26.400,0:50:31.200 um and it's a real pleasure and an honor 0:50:29.599,0:50:33.119 to be able to work in a company that 0:50:31.200,0:50:34.559 um especially coming at this late stage 0:50:33.119,0:50:36.640 right at 12 years in 0:50:34.559,0:50:37.680 and help really to take them to the next 0:50:36.640,0:50:38.960 level so 0:50:37.680,0:50:40.880 yeah i want to hire people that have 0:50:38.960,0:50:41.520 that same passion and that and that 0:50:40.880,0:50:43.280 respect 0:50:41.520,0:50:45.839 the team members cross-functionally 0:50:43.280,0:50:49.599 regardless of their function inside kuru 0:50:45.839,0:50:51.119 um i i try to um 0:50:49.599,0:50:52.319 live up to that value and i want 0:50:51.119,0:50:53.680 everyone else to think about it when 0:50:52.319,0:50:55.119 they're going about their daily lives as 0:50:53.680,0:50:56.800 well 0:50:55.119,0:50:58.160 i love it i love it well it was uh it 0:50:56.800,0:50:58.960 was great having a chat with you i 0:50:58.160,0:51:00.480 appreciate it 0:50:58.960,0:51:03.040 thanks for the environment where's the 0:51:00.480,0:51:04.720 uh yeah man uh where's the best place 0:51:03.040,0:51:07.280 for people to find you online 0:51:04.720,0:51:10.800 uh well on twitter at sean mcginnis uh 0:51:07.280,0:51:12.880 same name s-e-a-n-m-c-g-i-n-n-i-s 0:51:10.800,0:51:14.559 you can find me on linkedin in the same 0:51:12.880,0:51:15.599 facebook i kind of limit to the personal 0:51:14.559,0:51:18.319 connections but 0:51:15.599,0:51:18.800 um if we've had a conversation i'm never 0:51:18.319,0:51:21.280 afraid 0:51:18.800,0:51:23.359 to connect there either but uh yeah 0:51:21.280,0:51:24.800 happy to always connect and 0:51:23.359,0:51:26.880 help solve problems together if anyone 0:51:24.800,0:51:32.240 has a question or 0:51:26.880,0:51:32.240 love to love to chat more