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#82 "They all have two feet and one of them hurts" | Sean McGinnis

Sean McGinnis leads the marketing, eCommerce & customer experience functions at KURU Footwear.

KURU is a direct-to-consumer shoe brand with patented technology built in to eliminate foot pain.

They are on a mission to eliminate foot pain around the globe.

Transcript
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one of the things that we really really

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like is if you interact at all with one

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of our team members

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and go into any other channel and it

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recognizes you it tries to connect you

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with that same team member so you now

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have almost more of a one-to-one

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sort of a hero um to be able to deal

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with that specific person

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sean how you doing sir good how are you

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doing well

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doing well uh we were just having a

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little pre-recording

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uh chatter and it felt like the podcast

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already so i wanted to jump in

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it was like world fraternity brothers or

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something yeah yeah

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um so how you're out in salt lake um we

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were talking about this as well a little

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bit beforehand but

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i hear that silicon valley is kind of

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fleeing to

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utah in droves

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a little bit you know we're getting

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every now and then you hear a story

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about

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um some senior person or a team or a

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company you know coming and sort of

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putting a

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building an outpost out here i mean they

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the team that's it uh

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the team but there's a number of

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businesses that they like to refer to

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themselves as silicon slopes right

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so you're in the park city area you're

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down in utah county there's a lot of

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really cool b2b sass companies that are

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based down there

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companies like weave and um domo and so

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many others you know really all started

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with the omniture group that got bought

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up by adobe so

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it's a fun place to do business i mean

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there's a lot of talent here

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not not unlike austin right i mean it's

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very you get these pockets of talent and

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special

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specialized expertise that you can

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really sort of tap into as a

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yeah as an employer yeah yeah i was i've

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had a few

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um companies in based in utah that we're

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looking to hire and a couple times i was

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looking for like

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php developers in utah i was like it was

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like the first time i did that

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particular

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kind of search i was like holy cow

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it's like i i stumbled upon that hot

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spot we're a well-kept secret i mean for

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sure i mean

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if you uh pay attention to those lists

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of best places to work in the country or

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um as places to do business even salt

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lake usually pops up on those because

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i mean it's a great work-life balance

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there's so much to do outside if you're

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a ski bomber

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you love the outdoors you love to hike

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you love the mountains it's a great

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place to be

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yeah yeah so kuru footwear uh

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is a direct consumer shoe brand uh with

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some patented technology to

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eliminate foot pain um i was actually

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born with club foot

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uh believe it or not had a couple of

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surgeries when i was a kid and

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my feet are mostly fine um i have a

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couple of cool scars but

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um but so i was you know but my feet do

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get kind of fatigued i think faster than

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normal

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so i was kind of interested in learning

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a little bit more about

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you know the technology yeah so our ceo

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um started the business it actually got

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founded on the back of a business

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plan contest at the university of utah

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back in 2006. so

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the company proper yeah the company

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proper started in 08

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and there's an entrepreneurial institute

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that's hooked into the university of

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utah called the lassonde entrepreneurial

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institute and

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our ceo brett rasmussen entered a

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business plan contest back in 06

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kind of through his brother his brother

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was still a you uh

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student and um brett partnered with his

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brother and another couple of guys

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and they actually won the grand prize um

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in 2006 so that he took that money um

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raised a little bit of extra funds

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um and and went off and started doing

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research and started doing work and

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started

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kind of trying to apply he always wanted

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to be an entrepreneur

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and um part of the the fun little

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backstory of the business is we have

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drawings from when he was in like fifth

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grade

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really of a shoe catalog with

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strikethrough pricing

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yeah i mean it's uh sort of part of the

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the the old company narrative so he was

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probably 13 or 14 when he was pencil

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sketches on lined paper you know and his

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mom saved everything

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so it's amazing that we have this and he

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was in his shoes specifically

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at that time yeah no kidding yep

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shoes was into shoes always been a big

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sort of a shoe fan

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um wanted to start a company

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it never really had any intention of

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building something that would eliminate

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foot pain

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um or that even sort of tried to

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eliminate foot pain he just wanted to

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build something that was at the sort of

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locus of

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sort of the outdoor lifestyle and the

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urban

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um that was kind of up and coming at the

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time in the 2000s

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um but uh trying to apply and come up

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with something that that he could patent

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he thought the the basic thesis of the

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business was

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what do we do if we were to take some of

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the materials and shapes that you can

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typically buy in aftermarket inserts and

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build it directly into the shoe like why

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do i have to buy a pair of shoes and

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then go buy a 150

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pair of orthotic inserts right right if

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that makes it more comfortable for

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people what if i built it in

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and so that uh if you think about our

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technology the way i like to explain it

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it is um

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effectively it's kind of a proprietary

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patented technology

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a very hard sort of thermal plastic

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that's almost in the shape of like a

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larger mouth guard

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but it goes down into the actual midsole

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and so when your heel

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puts pressure on it it dynamically

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reacts and cups the the heel

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if you think about your foot or anyone's

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foot you know underneath that heel bone

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there's about an

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inch of fat that's called the fat pad

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it's nature's way of cushioning your

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foot

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right before we were invented shoes we

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were all walking barefoot on this on

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this earth

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and that was the protection that we

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always had and so

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his big thesis was what if we just found

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a way to cradle that and to protect it

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um and to and to actually build a shoe

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that's in the shape

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the same shape as a foot think about you

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know our feet are very round things

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and every shoe you buy is flat on the

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inside right and every piece of ground

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that we walk on is pretty

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traditionally flat right now think about

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every sport that you know of where a

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ball comes in contact with something

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flat i'm a golfer so i use that as an

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example

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you hit a golf ball with a driver and

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which loses out the driver of the golf

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ball right

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same thing for tennis same thing for

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baseball every single time a sphere

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uh comes in contact with something

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that's that's stable and flat

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the sphere loses it deforms right it

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depends yeah

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and the same thing happens over millions

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of steps in our lifetime

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you know the fat pad starts to break

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down it starts to compress it gives you

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less and less

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protection interesting and so this

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technology is really designed to just

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try and cradle and protect your

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your heel and we built in other things

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around as well so we tend to do a

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generous

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um forefoot um you know i'm a guy who

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wears a

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4e in everyone else's shoes and i can

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actually fit in in

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some of our mediums pretty comfortably

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so we just give you

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give your toes lots of room to sort of

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spread out and put your body in a

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position to heal itself

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you know we don't claim that we

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eliminate that we solve foot pain

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directly we just put your body in the

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right place to be able to do it for

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yourself

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right that's super interesting it's cool

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it's a cool brand yeah so we he launched

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it in 2008

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um the original plan was to be super

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traditional go through retail

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and um lehman brothers declares

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bankruptcy every retailer and their

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brother starts pulling orders and he's

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staring at a mountain of inventory he's

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like what am i going to do

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you know

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wrote his own first website in drupal

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nice um

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started selling you know in 2008 10

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10 orders a week a month like whatever

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you know whatever he could get his hands

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on

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yeah it was a pure liquidation strategy

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originally and eventually here we are 12

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years later obviously that wasn't

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the way we wound up so that's incredible

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yeah it's like when you know

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when those economic shocks hit you know

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it's like

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some people are crushed by them and some

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people just

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figure it out you know yeah and uh

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that's that's a great story you

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mentioned that you started in drupal

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i believe you mentioned you're on

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magento now um yeah

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i saw a tweet where you were uh somebody

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was launching a feature in shopify

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you're like wow you get

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you get stuff live so much faster with

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shopify

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i was curious what were some of the

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factors that went into the platform

0:08:15.919,0:08:19.120
decision for you and how do you think

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about the whole

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range of platforms that are available

0:08:21.120,0:08:24.319
these days

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yeah i only joined the business last

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october so a lot of those decisions

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were made long before i got there but um

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we didn't want to re-platform within the

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first couple of weeks

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yeah and honestly you know we the

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narrative of the business growth was we

0:08:37.440,0:08:41.680
grew really really rapidly through let's

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call it 2017.

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and at the end of 2017 a couple things

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had happened

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um internal to the business at that time

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one

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they made the decision to re-platform

0:08:51.760,0:08:55.839
for magento and magento too

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the ceo and the team i hear that we're

0:08:55.839,0:09:00.399
gonna give it a few years i hear that

0:08:58.560,0:09:01.839
m2 we want to make sure that it irons

0:09:00.399,0:09:03.600
the kinks out right we're going to give

0:09:01.839,0:09:04.959
it some chance give it some time to sort

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of grow its own legs

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and they felt like they'd done that and

0:09:07.279,0:09:10.720
uh the second thing that happened was

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there was a narrative inside the

0:09:10.720,0:09:14.160
business that hey we've tapped out of

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this kind of foot pain customer

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right we've spent into the yield curve

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and we can't

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spend any more money to grow the

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business so we got to sort of almost

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soft pivot the story

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and so what happened was they started to

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try to think about

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uh they de-emphasized the foot pain

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message and more emphasized on

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hey caleb if you were free from foot

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pain imagine what that would allow you

0:09:32.640,0:09:37.600
to do right imagine

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it became more of a sort of salvia sell

0:09:37.600,0:09:40.640
the siblings yeah

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sizzle inside of the steak yeah exactly

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it's became a more uh

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uh aspirational almost a lifestyle brand

0:09:45.279,0:09:48.640
type of a

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pivot nice but they left behind

0:09:48.640,0:09:54.240
thousands of pages of content

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and hundreds of specific articles

0:09:54.240,0:09:55.839
landing pages that have been created

0:09:55.440,0:09:57.279
that

0:09:55.839,0:10:00.160
targeted the foot pain right so as you

0:09:57.279,0:10:02.160
can imagine they peaked in 17 revenue

0:10:00.160,0:10:05.040
wise and 18 kind of flattened

0:10:02.160,0:10:06.480
and they spent more uh to drive paid

0:10:05.040,0:10:10.320
media to sort of keep that

0:10:06.480,0:10:11.680
that consistency um and so the site you

0:10:10.320,0:10:14.720
know needed a lot of work

0:10:11.680,0:10:16.640
and and um last year was actually a

0:10:14.720,0:10:18.079
down year for them so i came in and

0:10:16.640,0:10:19.279
we've been able to really turn it around

0:10:18.079,0:10:21.680
pretty quickly but just getting back to

0:10:19.279,0:10:23.360
basics um yeah

0:10:21.680,0:10:25.440
focusing on like i keep saying to the

0:10:23.360,0:10:27.360
team ecommerce doesn't have to be hard

0:10:25.440,0:10:29.120
it's not it's really not rocket science

0:10:27.360,0:10:30.640
like let's get let's get first

0:10:29.120,0:10:32.480
principles correct

0:10:30.640,0:10:34.480
let's focus on site speed let's focus on

0:10:32.480,0:10:36.399
clarity message let's focus on

0:10:34.480,0:10:38.959
you know we're eliminating friction any

0:10:36.399,0:10:40.720
place that exists when and where we can

0:10:38.959,0:10:42.160
so it's been a good year yeah i mean

0:10:40.720,0:10:44.240
skirt le cova didn't hurt

0:10:42.160,0:10:45.600
as you know i mean it's a it's pushed a

0:10:44.240,0:10:47.279
lot of folks online

0:10:45.600,0:10:50.320
but we were trending in that direction

0:10:47.279,0:10:52.480
even before it hit so yeah

0:10:50.320,0:10:54.079
i was curious to drill into how uh covet

0:10:52.480,0:10:56.399
has impacted things but

0:10:54.079,0:10:58.480
i'm i'm fascinated by what you just said

0:10:56.399,0:11:01.600
e-commerce doesn't have to be hard

0:10:58.480,0:11:03.839
and what are some of the ways that that

0:11:01.600,0:11:05.680
shows up for you in ways that maybe

0:11:03.839,0:11:07.040
people assume it does have to be hard

0:11:05.680,0:11:09.040
like what are some of the

0:11:07.040,0:11:10.480
decisions or things where there's a

0:11:09.040,0:11:11.760
scenario maybe people are over

0:11:10.480,0:11:14.399
complicating things

0:11:11.760,0:11:16.320
and you go let's take a step back and

0:11:14.399,0:11:17.360
i'll give you two really good examples i

0:11:16.320,0:11:20.240
know

0:11:17.360,0:11:22.000
it's it's really um fun to be the new

0:11:20.240,0:11:23.680
guy right you see things with those new

0:11:22.000,0:11:27.040
guy eyes my old boss

0:11:23.680,0:11:28.000
from years ago used to implore me please

0:11:27.040,0:11:30.079
don't lose the new guy

0:11:28.000,0:11:31.279
eyes like you you came from the outside

0:11:30.079,0:11:33.839
of this place

0:11:31.279,0:11:34.880
and we need that external sort of point

0:11:33.839,0:11:37.120
of view about stuff

0:11:34.880,0:11:38.720
um and the same thing's true here like

0:11:37.120,0:11:39.279
every time we hire someone new we we

0:11:38.720,0:11:40.959
actually

0:11:39.279,0:11:42.959
we implore them like please like hang on

0:11:40.959,0:11:45.120
to that external challenge everything

0:11:42.959,0:11:46.480
that we're doing to make sure that we're

0:11:45.120,0:11:47.839
we can sort of back that up with reason

0:11:46.480,0:11:49.040
i'll just give you two quick examples

0:11:47.839,0:11:51.279
one

0:11:49.040,0:11:52.560
um as i came into the business and

0:11:51.279,0:11:54.320
started to analyze and learn a little

0:11:52.560,0:11:56.240
bit more about our customer base and

0:11:54.320,0:11:58.399
you know who was buying and what so we

0:11:56.240,0:11:59.200
skew about two-thirds female about

0:11:58.399,0:12:02.959
two-thirds

0:11:59.200,0:12:05.440
40-plus um it's this business more than

0:12:02.959,0:12:06.880
many i think is a real challenging one

0:12:05.440,0:12:09.600
because

0:12:06.880,0:12:10.480
it our customers are just anybody with

0:12:09.600,0:12:13.200
foot pain i

0:12:10.480,0:12:15.040
you know you can be 22 and have foot

0:12:13.200,0:12:16.720
pain you can be 22 and develop plantar

0:12:15.040,0:12:18.399
fasciitis like doctors don't really know

0:12:16.720,0:12:19.519
what causes it they know they can define

0:12:18.399,0:12:21.680
that they can say oh it's an

0:12:19.519,0:12:24.160
inflammation of the plantar fascia and

0:12:21.680,0:12:25.200
it's the nerve surroundings they still

0:12:24.160,0:12:28.399
don't really know what

0:12:25.200,0:12:30.639
directly causes it um and so

0:12:28.399,0:12:31.920
i keep telling my ceo like the only

0:12:30.639,0:12:33.360
thing our customers have in common is

0:12:31.920,0:12:35.040
they all have two feet one of them hurts

0:12:33.360,0:12:36.079
man like it just doesn't matter where

0:12:35.040,0:12:37.680
you live

0:12:36.079,0:12:39.519
what you look like how much money you

0:12:37.680,0:12:40.880
make what your psychographic profile is

0:12:39.519,0:12:44.240
it just doesn't matter

0:12:40.880,0:12:45.360
and so um it's harder for us to identify

0:12:44.240,0:12:47.519
those people

0:12:45.360,0:12:48.560
but back to the the quick the quick win

0:12:47.519,0:12:51.040
was

0:12:48.560,0:12:52.000
um when you think about our customer

0:12:51.040,0:12:54.560
base as being 40

0:12:52.000,0:12:55.120
plus i got in and started navigating to

0:12:54.560,0:12:58.399
say it's like

0:12:55.120,0:12:58.720
our font is really small right let's try

0:12:58.399,0:13:00.160
and

0:12:58.720,0:13:02.079
let's try and j i mean we increased the

0:13:00.160,0:13:04.240
font size basically across every

0:13:02.079,0:13:05.120
transactional page by i want to say four

0:13:04.240,0:13:07.519
points

0:13:05.120,0:13:09.120
yeah um maybe more i can't remember the

0:13:07.519,0:13:11.360
specifics but conversion rate

0:13:09.120,0:13:13.279
immediately went up it's like

0:13:11.360,0:13:14.800
hey go figure when people can actually

0:13:13.279,0:13:16.320
read things it's

0:13:14.800,0:13:18.800
easier for them to do business with us

0:13:16.320,0:13:19.279
right yeah um the second big decision

0:13:18.800,0:13:21.600
was

0:13:19.279,0:13:23.440
um when covid hit we decided to put a

0:13:21.600,0:13:25.839
persistent bar at the top and

0:13:23.440,0:13:27.279
and we never actually messaged anything

0:13:25.839,0:13:29.680
covet related

0:13:27.279,0:13:31.440
um there was this you know big remember

0:13:29.680,0:13:32.720
back six months ago like oh are you

0:13:31.440,0:13:34.160
still shipping or you know

0:13:32.720,0:13:36.560
all this sort of confusion of what was

0:13:34.160,0:13:39.440
going on and we started the test we

0:13:36.560,0:13:41.040
we instituted a really quick quick test

0:13:39.440,0:13:43.600
um we had three or four variants

0:13:41.040,0:13:45.519
and the simplest variant won and what

0:13:43.600,0:13:46.800
that bar now says is free shipping free

0:13:45.519,0:13:48.000
returns free exchanges and it's

0:13:46.800,0:13:50.079
persistent on every page

0:13:48.000,0:13:51.839
that you navigate except for the cart

0:13:50.079,0:13:53.600
but that message was somewhere else on

0:13:51.839,0:13:55.360
the home page and it also still lives on

0:13:53.600,0:13:56.880
our pdp page kind of buried down in this

0:13:55.360,0:13:59.279
kind of like iconographic

0:13:56.880,0:14:00.480
box thing that's and don't go figure

0:13:59.279,0:14:03.360
when you put it

0:14:00.480,0:14:05.360
top of the site um conversion rate

0:14:03.360,0:14:07.920
increased like 20 plus percent when we

0:14:05.360,0:14:09.519
actually executed that test it's like

0:14:07.920,0:14:11.199
nice you know you just make it super

0:14:09.519,0:14:13.360
clear you got to kind of beat people i

0:14:11.199,0:14:14.959
uh my boss loves the analogy i keep

0:14:13.360,0:14:16.560
saying we're still not where i'd like us

0:14:14.959,0:14:17.120
to be in terms of when you land on our

0:14:16.560,0:14:18.959
site

0:14:17.120,0:14:21.199
it should be painfully obvious that we

0:14:18.959,0:14:22.880
are in a mission to eliminate foot pain

0:14:21.199,0:14:24.320
and i i joke like i want to i want to

0:14:22.880,0:14:26.000
slap everyone that visits

0:14:24.320,0:14:27.680
over the face across the face with a wet

0:14:26.000,0:14:30.000
fish and scream we

0:14:27.680,0:14:31.279
eliminate or we you know we exist to

0:14:30.000,0:14:32.160
eliminate foot pain that's what we're on

0:14:31.279,0:14:34.240
a mission to do

0:14:32.160,0:14:35.600
yeah and we're still not there yet but

0:14:34.240,0:14:38.639
um when we got

0:14:35.600,0:14:40.800
when you landed on the site a year ago

0:14:38.639,0:14:42.320
it wasn't the lead was completely buried

0:14:40.800,0:14:44.160
you know if you go and read our product

0:14:42.320,0:14:45.519
reviews every single customer screams

0:14:44.160,0:14:47.199
that out like oh my gosh this

0:14:45.519,0:14:49.040
i tried everything else before i tried

0:14:47.199,0:14:50.399
this and it works and i can't believe it

0:14:49.040,0:14:52.399
thank heavens i found you'll never buy

0:14:50.399,0:14:55.760
anyone else you know yeah yeah

0:14:52.399,0:14:57.199
all the time but even today if you land

0:14:55.760,0:14:58.720
on our site and the home page

0:14:57.199,0:15:00.480
it's not nearly as prevalent as i'd like

0:14:58.720,0:15:02.320
it to be yeah i think it was

0:15:00.480,0:15:04.880
uh for somebody that was coming to the

0:15:02.320,0:15:08.160
site with fresh eyes myself i think that

0:15:04.880,0:15:09.360
um did uh pop out pretty quickly to me i

0:15:08.160,0:15:11.839
mean i was granted

0:15:09.360,0:15:13.920
going in and trying to understand things

0:15:11.839,0:15:17.600
and stuff like that i wasn't just like a

0:15:13.920,0:15:21.600
casual surfer but um

0:15:17.600,0:15:24.320
uh what kind of dog you got by the way

0:15:21.600,0:15:25.440
yeah sorry i can't control uh the

0:15:24.320,0:15:26.959
delivery schedule

0:15:25.440,0:15:28.480
yeah there's a couple of them they're

0:15:26.959,0:15:30.720
both mixed breed rescues

0:15:28.480,0:15:32.480
and feed off of each other the minute it

0:15:30.720,0:15:34.639
happens it's like nice

0:15:32.480,0:15:36.160
i've been thinking about i have a yellow

0:15:34.639,0:15:37.839
lab uh she's about

0:15:36.160,0:15:38.959
she'll be three soon and i've been

0:15:37.839,0:15:40.000
thinking about whether i should get

0:15:38.959,0:15:43.040
another one

0:15:40.000,0:15:44.480
so she has like a buddy and you know i

0:15:43.040,0:15:47.519
had her since she was a puppy

0:15:44.480,0:15:50.560
and uh she was absolutely adorable

0:15:47.519,0:15:52.320
but just a ton of work um

0:15:50.560,0:15:54.240
so i i keep thinking about i've been

0:15:52.320,0:15:56.880
taking her to the dog park a lot lately

0:15:54.240,0:15:58.160
you know which is a lot of fun yeah um

0:15:56.880,0:15:59.279
yeah we're out here in the boonies so

0:15:58.160,0:16:00.800
we've got some room and

0:15:59.279,0:16:02.720
uh we'd love to let you know get them

0:16:00.800,0:16:04.720
running and expending a lot of energy

0:16:02.720,0:16:06.800
but the one guy the barker is a

0:16:04.720,0:16:08.160
boxer and black lab mix but he looks

0:16:06.800,0:16:09.279
kind of like a pit bull he's a little

0:16:08.160,0:16:11.600
short stocky guy

0:16:09.279,0:16:14.639
uh-huh big head big blocky head black

0:16:11.600,0:16:14.639
and white he's a man

0:16:14.959,0:16:21.680
he's a good buddy yeah yeah um

0:16:18.399,0:16:23.199
i i love how transparent you are about

0:16:21.680,0:16:24.240
like you were you were you know just as

0:16:23.199,0:16:25.519
we've been talking you've been talking

0:16:24.240,0:16:26.480
about revenue things and different

0:16:25.519,0:16:28.320
things like that

0:16:26.480,0:16:29.839
and one of the things i i think about a

0:16:28.320,0:16:31.199
lot i'm used to being in kind of the

0:16:29.839,0:16:33.519
vendor ecosystem

0:16:31.199,0:16:34.800
within e-commerce development agencies

0:16:33.519,0:16:38.160
sas companies

0:16:34.800,0:16:38.480
and um i i sort of wonder why people on

0:16:38.160,0:16:40.959
the

0:16:38.480,0:16:42.079
brand side the retail side tend to be

0:16:40.959,0:16:43.279
like i have a buddy

0:16:42.079,0:16:44.800
i was talking to you recently we're

0:16:43.279,0:16:46.720
having this great conversation about

0:16:44.800,0:16:48.079
manufacturing all sorts of stuff

0:16:46.720,0:16:50.480
and i was like man it'd be fun to have

0:16:48.079,0:16:52.800
you on the podcast and he was like no

0:16:50.480,0:16:53.839
no i we can't i can't talk i can't talk

0:16:52.800,0:16:56.079
about like

0:16:53.839,0:16:56.880
there's a hesitation to talk about

0:16:56.079,0:16:59.440
things

0:16:56.880,0:17:00.720
and i understand that as a vendor when

0:16:59.440,0:17:01.680
you're putting out content being

0:17:00.720,0:17:04.720
transparent

0:17:01.680,0:17:05.520
that's also marketing right and so i get

0:17:04.720,0:17:08.160
that but

0:17:05.520,0:17:09.039
i'm curious if it's just a mindset shift

0:17:08.160,0:17:11.439
or

0:17:09.039,0:17:13.199
um you know the reasons why you tend to

0:17:11.439,0:17:15.039
be more transparent talk about

0:17:13.199,0:17:16.160
the tools you're looking into and the

0:17:15.039,0:17:18.160
things that you're doing with the

0:17:16.160,0:17:20.079
business and stuff like that

0:17:18.160,0:17:22.400
yeah i mean i agree with you i think i

0:17:20.079,0:17:24.319
think as on the sas on the b2b side

0:17:22.400,0:17:25.839
it's marketing right it's there's it's

0:17:24.319,0:17:27.120
brilliant for the common thread

0:17:25.839,0:17:29.039
collective guys to be

0:17:27.120,0:17:31.679
sharing case studies i mean it's just so

0:17:29.039,0:17:33.120
smart um your podcasts the same thing

0:17:31.679,0:17:33.600
right i mean it's a piece of it's a way

0:17:33.120,0:17:36.160
to

0:17:33.600,0:17:36.720
do content marketing really well i do it

0:17:36.160,0:17:40.000
because i

0:17:36.720,0:17:41.280
it um for for a couple reasons well one

0:17:40.000,0:17:43.039
there's a line that we don't cross

0:17:41.280,0:17:44.559
in terms of being as private as we are

0:17:43.039,0:17:45.360
we don't share specifics in terms of

0:17:44.559,0:17:46.799
revenue or

0:17:45.360,0:17:47.679
margin or anything like that but if

0:17:46.799,0:17:49.200
we're talking about a baseline

0:17:47.679,0:17:50.559
improvement i can i can speak to those

0:17:49.200,0:17:52.240
kind of things all day long and i sort

0:17:50.559,0:17:53.520
of know where that that line exists and

0:17:52.240,0:17:56.799
so i try to limit it

0:17:53.520,0:17:58.640
to that kind of conversation too i think

0:17:56.799,0:18:00.320
my goal is to hire the best people that

0:17:58.640,0:18:02.400
i can all the time

0:18:00.320,0:18:03.919
and so you know whether those people are

0:18:02.400,0:18:05.440
here in salt lake city or whether i can

0:18:03.919,0:18:06.799
attract people from across the country

0:18:05.440,0:18:08.720
and bring them here i mean my econ

0:18:06.799,0:18:09.919
manager is a guy who relocated here from

0:18:08.720,0:18:12.320
tampa

0:18:09.919,0:18:14.160
um you know we found him he's a great

0:18:12.320,0:18:15.360
fit he's a stone cold killer he's just

0:18:14.160,0:18:17.039
helping us so much

0:18:15.360,0:18:18.400
in terms of the amount of work we're the

0:18:17.039,0:18:20.240
throughput right the work we're

0:18:18.400,0:18:21.840
able to get done right and so i want

0:18:20.240,0:18:23.679
people to learn about the brand i joke

0:18:21.840,0:18:26.080
all the time i feel like kuru is one of

0:18:23.679,0:18:28.080
the best kept secrets in salt lake city

0:18:26.080,0:18:29.200
salt lake city is filled with really

0:18:28.080,0:18:30.960
great tech companies and

0:18:29.200,0:18:32.160
again more on that b2b sas we were

0:18:30.960,0:18:33.520
talking a little bit before we started

0:18:32.160,0:18:34.720
the the podcast

0:18:33.520,0:18:36.559
you know there's a ton of great

0:18:34.720,0:18:37.760
companies like domo and weave and so

0:18:36.559,0:18:39.520
many others and there's dozens and

0:18:37.760,0:18:41.280
dozens of them that are

0:18:39.520,0:18:44.400
popping up and growing like like

0:18:41.280,0:18:46.240
wildfire um in the salt lake city area

0:18:44.400,0:18:48.400
ecommerce especially direct to consumer

0:18:46.240,0:18:49.760
there's a couple there's taft you know

0:18:48.400,0:18:51.200
there's there's purple

0:18:49.760,0:18:53.039
there's a few folks like that that are

0:18:51.200,0:18:54.559
around but we don't get a lot of the

0:18:53.039,0:18:55.840
attention that those other sort of big

0:18:54.559,0:18:58.080
players do you know we're not out

0:18:55.840,0:18:59.760
raising massive funding rounds

0:18:58.080,0:19:01.039
that's not why i'm sharing because we

0:18:59.760,0:19:02.320
have no interest in that we're really

0:19:01.039,0:19:03.360
happy with the way things are going

0:19:02.320,0:19:06.240
right now

0:19:03.360,0:19:07.360
um but there that talent acquisition

0:19:06.240,0:19:09.039
piece you know we're having those

0:19:07.360,0:19:09.360
conversations right now as a leadership

0:19:09.039,0:19:11.840
group

0:19:09.360,0:19:12.880
around like what is our employment and

0:19:11.840,0:19:15.360
um

0:19:12.880,0:19:17.520
experience our ex sort of strategy and

0:19:15.360,0:19:18.799
my my version of events is i want us to

0:19:17.520,0:19:19.760
become an employer of choice in the

0:19:18.799,0:19:21.440
valley and across

0:19:19.760,0:19:23.200
at least the western part you know west

0:19:21.440,0:19:24.799
of the mississippi let's say

0:19:23.200,0:19:26.880
i want to be able to suck people in from

0:19:24.799,0:19:28.640
everywhere find the most talented people

0:19:26.880,0:19:32.080
bring them to work for us

0:19:28.640,0:19:33.760
um and hopefully have them 20 years from

0:19:32.080,0:19:35.600
now look back and go that was the best

0:19:33.760,0:19:37.120
job i ever had like to me that's

0:19:35.600,0:19:39.039
that's my strategy from an employee

0:19:37.120,0:19:40.400
experience perspective i want to treat

0:19:39.039,0:19:42.160
people with

0:19:40.400,0:19:43.679
dignity and respect and challenge them

0:19:42.160,0:19:44.799
and push them but also give them great

0:19:43.679,0:19:47.919
growth opportunities

0:19:44.799,0:19:49.280
um that's as a manager that's my job is

0:19:47.919,0:19:50.640
to develop people so they're ready to

0:19:49.280,0:19:51.600
take the next step in their career and

0:19:50.640,0:19:53.200
sometimes

0:19:51.600,0:19:55.039
that might be outside the house it's not

0:19:53.200,0:19:56.799
even part of kuru but

0:19:55.039,0:19:58.160
those things happen and if it happens

0:19:56.799,0:19:59.120
it's like you get a high five for me

0:19:58.160,0:20:01.200
let's stay in touch

0:19:59.120,0:20:02.880
speak well of us to anyone else that

0:20:01.200,0:20:04.400
might be interested in coming in and

0:20:02.880,0:20:06.320
let's stay in touch let's go golfing

0:20:04.400,0:20:08.720
let's have a drink you know lunch

0:20:06.320,0:20:09.600
and keep those relationships alive

0:20:08.720,0:20:10.880
because

0:20:09.600,0:20:12.400
i can't tell you the number of people

0:20:10.880,0:20:13.200
that have like referred to my former

0:20:12.400,0:20:14.880
companies

0:20:13.200,0:20:16.240
or and vice versa you know i've been

0:20:14.880,0:20:18.320
lucky enough to take

0:20:16.240,0:20:19.760
or to bring top performers to work for

0:20:18.320,0:20:22.240
me a second time that they were willing

0:20:19.760,0:20:25.280
to relocate across the country yeah

0:20:22.240,0:20:27.039
if you just do those i think sharing

0:20:25.280,0:20:29.120
that information gives you a platform

0:20:27.039,0:20:31.120
right and if you're consistent about it

0:20:29.120,0:20:31.440
you get to be known over time as someone

0:20:31.120,0:20:33.440
who

0:20:31.440,0:20:35.039
is backs or wires or sort of whatever

0:20:33.440,0:20:36.720
that expertise level is

0:20:35.039,0:20:38.240
i love that yeah it's interesting so

0:20:36.720,0:20:39.840
it's like a lot of times when i ask this

0:20:38.240,0:20:41.520
question and get feedback it's like well

0:20:39.840,0:20:43.200
for the vendors it's marketing

0:20:41.520,0:20:44.720
for the merchants it's not but it's like

0:20:43.200,0:20:46.880
recruiting

0:20:44.720,0:20:49.200
is like is like everything like the

0:20:46.880,0:20:52.320
talent that you have at your company

0:20:49.200,0:20:54.000
is so huge and and um

0:20:52.320,0:20:55.840
yeah there's concerns all competitors

0:20:54.000,0:20:58.960
might hear what we're doing

0:20:55.840,0:21:01.360
but like the value of attracting talent

0:20:58.960,0:21:04.080
is like it's it's it's so huge

0:21:01.360,0:21:05.440
yeah it's funny that look if if you can

0:21:04.080,0:21:06.880
define what we're doing and you want to

0:21:05.440,0:21:08.320
copy it like there's so many tools out

0:21:06.880,0:21:10.240
there for you to go be able to do that i

0:21:08.320,0:21:13.360
can't stop you from doing that

0:21:10.240,0:21:15.440
abundance mindset yeah it's everything's

0:21:13.360,0:21:16.880
in the execution right a good idea

0:21:15.440,0:21:18.559
it's not that they they don't they're

0:21:16.880,0:21:19.280
not a dime a dozen because good ideas

0:21:18.559,0:21:21.039
are great

0:21:19.280,0:21:22.480
but it all boils up to the execution you

0:21:21.039,0:21:24.000
can you can be jealous of what we're

0:21:22.480,0:21:25.520
doing in the paid search space but if

0:21:24.000,0:21:27.200
you have the

0:21:25.520,0:21:28.960
the ability to actually go replicate it

0:21:27.200,0:21:30.480
that's great like

0:21:28.960,0:21:32.159
that competitive fire is going to be

0:21:30.480,0:21:33.760
there and we should all be testing out

0:21:32.159,0:21:35.520
everything all the time and finding the

0:21:33.760,0:21:37.520
things that work right yeah

0:21:35.520,0:21:39.440
it's funny you mentioned purple because

0:21:37.520,0:21:42.559
i also saw you posted about

0:21:39.440,0:21:43.360
uh frequency caps for some ads that you

0:21:42.559,0:21:46.159
were seeing

0:21:43.360,0:21:48.159
and that oh my god like an ad like 52

0:21:46.159,0:21:51.440
times in a week or something like that

0:21:48.159,0:21:52.880
the purple the purple uh mattress ads

0:21:51.440,0:21:54.400
when i was doing some like

0:21:52.880,0:21:56.480
i was building a shed or something like

0:21:54.400,0:21:59.679
that so i was searching on youtube

0:21:56.480,0:22:01.919
and these ads man i would see them all

0:21:59.679,0:22:05.280
the time

0:22:01.919,0:22:05.280
clearly in their demographics

0:22:05.360,0:22:10.080
i really guys i don't need a mattress

0:22:07.440,0:22:12.640
i'm good i'm good

0:22:10.080,0:22:13.120
but yeah that was a fun experiment sms

0:22:12.640,0:22:15.039
uh

0:22:13.120,0:22:16.159
platforms are just popping up everywhere

0:22:15.039,0:22:17.679
right and i just kept

0:22:16.159,0:22:19.039
and that had been going on for months

0:22:17.679,0:22:20.799
and finally i'm like i can't handle it

0:22:19.039,0:22:22.559
anymore so i just decided to track i

0:22:20.799,0:22:24.480
just actually did a screen grab of every

0:22:22.559,0:22:26.640
single time i saw an ad

0:22:24.480,0:22:27.919
for this one platform is like oh my gosh

0:22:26.640,0:22:29.760
it's just too much like

0:22:27.919,0:22:31.760
yeah yeah it was four or five times a

0:22:29.760,0:22:33.280
day for for that whole week and then

0:22:31.760,0:22:35.919
when i tweeted about it it all stopped

0:22:33.280,0:22:35.919
so i don't know

0:22:39.600,0:22:42.720
are you getting into i know sms

0:22:41.440,0:22:44.720
marketing is real hot

0:22:42.720,0:22:46.400
and uh right now are you getting into

0:22:44.720,0:22:49.520
that what are your thoughts on that

0:22:46.400,0:22:50.880
we're not um i i have a you know we're

0:22:49.520,0:22:54.320
one of those weird braces i should have

0:22:50.880,0:22:55.919
shown you that ad one more time it would

0:22:54.320,0:22:58.159
have pushed me over the edge

0:22:55.919,0:22:59.600
i we're not a heavy discounting brand

0:22:58.159,0:23:00.799
we're one of those brands that believes

0:22:59.600,0:23:04.480
in selling the value

0:23:00.799,0:23:06.320
um in fact i removed the the discount

0:23:04.480,0:23:08.320
box from our checkout flow

0:23:06.320,0:23:10.159
you cannot input a discount code any

0:23:08.320,0:23:13.120
longer i love it

0:23:10.159,0:23:14.480
so uh you know my my way of dealing with

0:23:13.120,0:23:15.679
that i actually wanted to replace it

0:23:14.480,0:23:17.200
with some language that said something

0:23:15.679,0:23:19.760
like always the best price

0:23:17.200,0:23:22.080
like you know no coupon required yeah so

0:23:19.760,0:23:23.200
every customer that comes by our site

0:23:22.080,0:23:24.000
we're going to have the same promotion

0:23:23.200,0:23:25.840
for everybody

0:23:24.000,0:23:27.280
you're not going to get treated special

0:23:25.840,0:23:29.280
i don't want you going off and running

0:23:27.280,0:23:31.200
searches for crew coupons

0:23:29.280,0:23:32.799
hitting some crappy affiliate like

0:23:31.200,0:23:33.760
retailmenot that i don't do business

0:23:32.799,0:23:35.120
with anyway

0:23:33.760,0:23:36.480
where someone's trying to crowdsource a

0:23:35.120,0:23:37.520
coupon to get a better deal like you're

0:23:36.480,0:23:38.240
never going to get that better deal

0:23:37.520,0:23:40.960
anymore

0:23:38.240,0:23:43.520
yeah um so you know we prefer to work

0:23:40.960,0:23:45.120
with affiliates who are content creators

0:23:43.520,0:23:47.279
and so the question that i always ask

0:23:45.120,0:23:48.640
every time people use sms is oh my gosh

0:23:47.279,0:23:51.200
sms is so great it's so great

0:23:48.640,0:23:53.200
it's like okay what are you doing like

0:23:51.200,0:23:53.840
and every single time it's an offer it's

0:23:53.200,0:23:56.240
a promo

0:23:53.840,0:23:57.840
discount it's something it's a you know

0:23:56.240,0:23:59.840
and so it's like well i'm

0:23:57.840,0:24:01.200
not convinced i think from a transaction

0:23:59.840,0:24:01.840
perspective it's great like if i want to

0:24:01.200,0:24:04.320
share you know

0:24:01.840,0:24:05.600
um we should and we don't today we

0:24:04.320,0:24:06.880
should have that option for you to

0:24:05.600,0:24:08.159
choose like what's the best way for us

0:24:06.880,0:24:10.400
to communicate with you

0:24:08.159,0:24:12.640
you want to get um shipping

0:24:10.400,0:24:15.840
notifications you know all that stuff

0:24:12.640,0:24:17.120
in messenger in sms and email

0:24:15.840,0:24:19.600
we'll we'll put it wherever you want it

0:24:17.120,0:24:23.360
to be we're not that sophisticated yet

0:24:19.600,0:24:26.240
um but it's it's tempting

0:24:23.360,0:24:27.039
um i was listening to a podcast the

0:24:26.240,0:24:28.720
other day about

0:24:27.039,0:24:31.120
i think it's a live recovery that does

0:24:28.720,0:24:32.240
actually live human beings sort of sms

0:24:31.120,0:24:34.080
like there's a

0:24:32.240,0:24:35.600
there's a chance to inject the brand

0:24:34.080,0:24:36.159
voice in that like that's somewhat

0:24:35.600,0:24:38.400
tempting

0:24:36.159,0:24:40.400
right now um yeah yeah but it's we've

0:24:38.400,0:24:42.559
got so much other stuff to fix right now

0:24:40.400,0:24:43.600
um as i've told my boss we joined a year

0:24:42.559,0:24:45.039
ago like

0:24:43.600,0:24:46.320
i'm thinking of the business in three

0:24:45.039,0:24:48.480
phases and we're still in the middle of

0:24:46.320,0:24:50.640
phase one which is just fixed digital

0:24:48.480,0:24:52.400
so a lot of work yet to be done there

0:24:50.640,0:24:52.720
yeah actually i'm gonna have dennis uh

0:24:52.400,0:24:54.880
uh

0:24:52.720,0:24:56.159
on the podcast soon he's the founder of

0:24:54.880,0:24:59.200
live recovery yeah

0:24:56.159,0:25:00.000
yeah um i had seen um just i think this

0:24:59.200,0:25:02.240
morning or

0:25:00.000,0:25:04.159
yesterday i saw one of their ads that

0:25:02.240,0:25:05.600
they were running and i i thought

0:25:04.159,0:25:07.440
because i built an email marketing

0:25:05.600,0:25:09.279
software that got acquired and so i

0:25:07.440,0:25:12.640
thought a lot about

0:25:09.279,0:25:14.480
writing short and sweet copy and i liked

0:25:12.640,0:25:15.919
the way they did it even the way they

0:25:14.480,0:25:18.400
mentioned the discount

0:25:15.919,0:25:19.760
was like a little subtle it was like do

0:25:18.400,0:25:21.440
you want me to see if i can get you a

0:25:19.760,0:25:24.559
discount as opposed to

0:25:21.440,0:25:26.159
click here for 50 you know so

0:25:24.559,0:25:29.200
i liked i liked some of the elements of

0:25:26.159,0:25:30.480
it the human um powered aspect of it is

0:25:29.200,0:25:33.039
kind of interesting

0:25:30.480,0:25:33.520
um as well but i love what you're doing

0:25:33.039,0:25:36.240
with

0:25:33.520,0:25:38.640
avoiding uh the discounts i mean that

0:25:36.240,0:25:42.400
can just

0:25:38.640,0:25:44.480
be a race to the bottom so quickly um

0:25:42.400,0:25:45.840
you know i i heard the recent podcast

0:25:44.480,0:25:49.039
with andrew ferriss and

0:25:45.840,0:25:51.279
um and uh taylor over at

0:25:49.039,0:25:52.880
um you know the 4x400 guys we're talking

0:25:51.279,0:25:55.039
about is a discount a race to the bottom

0:25:52.880,0:25:56.799
it's kind of a follow-up to a tweet that

0:25:55.039,0:26:00.240
i think nate had put out there

0:25:56.799,0:26:02.000
um digital and native and i

0:26:00.240,0:26:03.360
and we don't do it and we i got involved

0:26:02.000,0:26:03.760
in that threat as well like we don't do

0:26:03.360,0:26:06.080
it

0:26:03.760,0:26:08.000
um but i'm open to testing if we have

0:26:06.080,0:26:08.559
the right way to track it you know i'm

0:26:08.000,0:26:10.640
just not

0:26:08.559,0:26:11.840
convinced you know the way we use we do

0:26:10.640,0:26:12.720
have a clearance center on the site

0:26:11.840,0:26:14.240
today

0:26:12.720,0:26:16.000
and the way um we're having this

0:26:14.240,0:26:18.400
conversation internally i

0:26:16.000,0:26:19.919
like to use the clearance center to

0:26:18.400,0:26:21.440
manage inventory levels

0:26:19.919,0:26:22.880
if we're heavy in something that we

0:26:21.440,0:26:24.000
don't need that much inventory we

0:26:22.880,0:26:27.279
overbought

0:26:24.000,0:26:29.200
um you know we now instituted a new um

0:26:27.279,0:26:31.520
sort of limited edition philosophy so

0:26:29.200,0:26:31.840
our core our core styles you know we've

0:26:31.520,0:26:34.720
got

0:26:31.840,0:26:36.000
our core colorways in those styles that

0:26:34.720,0:26:36.480
we know we're always going to have the

0:26:36.000,0:26:38.640
black

0:26:36.480,0:26:40.159
you know men's atom is a great example

0:26:38.640,0:26:43.279
it's always going to be there

0:26:40.159,0:26:44.559
and so i've i've in this past year being

0:26:43.279,0:26:45.919
with the business

0:26:44.559,0:26:48.480
actually this week is my one year

0:26:45.919,0:26:50.320
anniversary um congratulations

0:26:48.480,0:26:51.840
thank you we've we've gotten to this

0:26:50.320,0:26:53.600
point where we're

0:26:51.840,0:26:55.200
philosophically aligned on how we want

0:26:53.600,0:26:56.960
to manage those we want to manage those

0:26:55.200,0:26:57.600
core color ways so that they never go

0:26:56.960,0:26:59.600
out of stock

0:26:57.600,0:27:00.960
right if you hit that website you should

0:26:59.600,0:27:02.559
never have a need to use a back and

0:27:00.960,0:27:05.600
stock notification

0:27:02.559,0:27:07.200
um on those colorways we should always

0:27:05.600,0:27:08.480
be having enough inventory to say oh

0:27:07.200,0:27:10.640
we're never going to go out of stock on

0:27:08.480,0:27:13.120
a size 8 or 9 or whatever

0:27:10.640,0:27:14.559
um the there's new colors that we're

0:27:13.120,0:27:15.919
going to introduce that we're labeling

0:27:14.559,0:27:17.360
limited editions we're only going to buy

0:27:15.919,0:27:19.120
them once and i want us to get in the

0:27:17.360,0:27:21.760
habit of sort of buying

0:27:19.120,0:27:23.919
x months worth of inventory and when

0:27:21.760,0:27:25.679
that x month time frame hits

0:27:23.919,0:27:27.039
if we have stuff left over we put that

0:27:25.679,0:27:28.559
into clearance to try and move it as

0:27:27.039,0:27:30.960
quickly as possible so we can move on to

0:27:28.559,0:27:33.039
the next limited edition collar right

0:27:30.960,0:27:34.880
so it winds up being sort of a fraction

0:27:33.039,0:27:36.320
of a fraction of a fraction of the total

0:27:34.880,0:27:37.440
inventory that's available at a

0:27:36.320,0:27:38.799
discounted rate

0:27:37.440,0:27:40.000
so you always have that sort of entry

0:27:38.799,0:27:41.200
point for people that are a little bit

0:27:40.000,0:27:42.559
price sensitive

0:27:41.200,0:27:44.320
so if they come to the i mean if you go

0:27:42.559,0:27:47.200
today i think there's

0:27:44.320,0:27:48.640
six women's shoes and two or three men

0:27:47.200,0:27:50.000
shoot the clearance center

0:27:48.640,0:27:51.679
and they're pretty broken in terms of

0:27:50.000,0:27:53.120
the size run right so it gets people in

0:27:51.679,0:27:54.799
the habit of coming back to the site if

0:27:53.120,0:27:56.159
they see a color that they like

0:27:54.799,0:27:57.600
right gets them in the habit of paying

0:27:56.159,0:27:58.880
full price if they like it now you

0:27:57.600,0:27:59.679
better get it because it's not coming

0:27:58.880,0:28:02.480
back

0:27:59.679,0:28:02.960
right um but if if you want to temp fate

0:28:02.480,0:28:04.640
you can

0:28:02.960,0:28:05.919
you can wait it out and see what happens

0:28:04.640,0:28:07.360
right maybe it'll be available in your

0:28:05.919,0:28:07.760
size it's a little bit of roll the dice

0:28:07.360,0:28:09.520
we'll say

0:28:07.760,0:28:11.360
right you know and then it's true

0:28:09.520,0:28:14.960
scarcity right it's not

0:28:11.360,0:28:17.279
fake it's not games yeah

0:28:14.960,0:28:19.679
um so we're having a conversation again

0:28:17.279,0:28:21.520
like is is it is a time-bound structure

0:28:19.679,0:28:23.279
the right structure or should it be

0:28:21.520,0:28:25.279
when we hit a certain break point in

0:28:23.279,0:28:26.480
terms of the size run breakage or should

0:28:25.279,0:28:28.320
it be

0:28:26.480,0:28:31.120
when a certain number or even left in

0:28:28.320,0:28:32.720
that skew total in inventory

0:28:31.120,0:28:34.000
it's an interesting internal debate

0:28:32.720,0:28:35.600
hopefully within the next couple weeks

0:28:34.000,0:28:36.320
we can finally align on the right path

0:28:35.600,0:28:38.720
forward

0:28:36.320,0:28:40.240
right um but you know i think we went we

0:28:38.720,0:28:41.440
went multiple months with nothing in

0:28:40.240,0:28:42.480
those clearance centers they were still

0:28:41.440,0:28:44.000
up the whole time

0:28:42.480,0:28:45.679
but the men's in particular you know

0:28:44.000,0:28:48.000
we've got about half as many skus and

0:28:45.679,0:28:49.520
men's as we do in women's anyway

0:28:48.000,0:28:51.520
i think there were six months where we

0:28:49.520,0:28:54.799
had no men's shoes on discount

0:28:51.520,0:28:55.679
so we tend to use our um point system as

0:28:54.799,0:28:57.600
a means to

0:28:55.679,0:28:58.960
to increase offers so like black friday

0:28:57.600,0:29:00.559
cyber monday we're just going to do i

0:28:58.960,0:29:01.840
think we've done three deals all

0:29:00.559,0:29:04.880
year this year for mother's day for

0:29:01.840,0:29:06.399
father's day we did three x points and

0:29:04.880,0:29:06.880
points are about we think it's a five

0:29:06.399,0:29:09.039
percent

0:29:06.880,0:29:10.080
um you earn five percent cash back in

0:29:09.039,0:29:12.720
your account right

0:29:10.080,0:29:14.080
so 15 during those weekends and then

0:29:12.720,0:29:15.200
memorial day we did 10

0:29:14.080,0:29:16.559
off our dress shoes it didn't even

0:29:15.200,0:29:18.080
really move the needle you know those

0:29:16.559,0:29:19.440
are the things that we don't sell really

0:29:18.080,0:29:20.880
quick we're just we're not a dress shoe

0:29:19.440,0:29:22.799
company right now we're

0:29:20.880,0:29:24.559
a vast majority of our of our

0:29:22.799,0:29:27.840
inventories and sneakers and

0:29:24.559,0:29:29.440
casual wear and you know is it is it

0:29:27.840,0:29:31.360
complicated to do dress shoes because i

0:29:29.440,0:29:33.200
feel like dress shoes you'd be more

0:29:31.360,0:29:35.360
likely to have foot pain

0:29:33.200,0:29:38.240
with dress shoes or work shoes like is

0:29:35.360,0:29:41.600
that a difficult category to get into

0:29:38.240,0:29:44.000
you know it's uh more difficult to

0:29:41.600,0:29:45.520
design something that uh that looks like

0:29:44.000,0:29:46.480
a traditional dress shoe and has our

0:29:45.520,0:29:48.159
technology in it

0:29:46.480,0:29:49.760
i'll say that if you go to our site

0:29:48.159,0:29:52.880
today and look at like our

0:29:49.760,0:29:54.320
um you know our cap toe or our uh

0:29:52.880,0:29:56.720
some of the men's dress shoes in

0:29:54.320,0:29:58.559
particular um like our chukka

0:29:56.720,0:29:59.840
it looks pretty cool it still looks like

0:29:58.559,0:30:01.360
a chukka boot

0:29:59.840,0:30:03.039
but in the more traditional dress shoes

0:30:01.360,0:30:05.520
it's definitely harder for someone like

0:30:03.039,0:30:07.679
me who's my age and is used to wearing

0:30:05.520,0:30:08.720
you know extra wire z brand it just

0:30:07.679,0:30:10.799
doesn't because you know those are

0:30:08.720,0:30:13.120
leather built you get the leather

0:30:10.799,0:30:14.399
leather soles you know you get a welted

0:30:13.120,0:30:16.559
a fully welted

0:30:14.399,0:30:17.919
sole it's like it's just it looks

0:30:16.559,0:30:19.600
different because it's it's

0:30:17.919,0:30:21.200
it's more like a sneaker underneath and

0:30:19.600,0:30:23.360
so but that's i mean

0:30:21.200,0:30:25.200
there's the that whole hybrid category

0:30:23.360,0:30:27.200
of sort of dress sneakers

0:30:25.200,0:30:28.399
um you know yeah we launched if you go

0:30:27.200,0:30:29.919
to the site today and look up

0:30:28.399,0:30:31.919
the men's and women's room it's kind of

0:30:29.919,0:30:32.640
a classic quartz sneaker the old fred

0:30:31.919,0:30:34.320
perry look

0:30:32.640,0:30:35.760
those have been around forever in the

0:30:34.320,0:30:37.279
silicon valley right like

0:30:35.760,0:30:39.039
that was the dr that was the sort of

0:30:37.279,0:30:39.520
dress shoe du jour with a pair of blue

0:30:39.039,0:30:42.000
jeans

0:30:39.520,0:30:44.080
is a pair of white or black or blue or

0:30:42.000,0:30:46.159
gray patagonia vest

0:30:44.080,0:30:48.240
and the pattern cutting fast exactly

0:30:46.159,0:30:50.559
right i mean that was that was the

0:30:48.240,0:30:52.159
that's the uniform right and so

0:30:50.559,0:30:54.640
it's not like we're coming there's

0:30:52.159,0:30:56.480
definitely a good business for us to be

0:30:54.640,0:30:58.000
um one of the things that we've talked

0:30:56.480,0:30:59.200
about historically is kind of owning the

0:30:58.000,0:31:01.440
closet you know we get

0:30:59.200,0:31:03.120
our customers become really ra rabid

0:31:01.440,0:31:04.960
fans of crew and

0:31:03.120,0:31:06.720
they're like why aren't you launching

0:31:04.960,0:31:08.240
your technology in this type of shoe or

0:31:06.720,0:31:10.480
this type of shoe at this time

0:31:08.240,0:31:11.840
and so we've talked for a while around

0:31:10.480,0:31:13.200
you know is the philosophy that we

0:31:11.840,0:31:15.360
really want to own the closet

0:31:13.200,0:31:17.760
and sort of offer one of everything or

0:31:15.360,0:31:19.840
is the the philosophy more about

0:31:17.760,0:31:21.360
focused concentration on as few skews as

0:31:19.840,0:31:24.080
possible that are really going to

0:31:21.360,0:31:25.600
help us grow and both of those are

0:31:24.080,0:31:27.440
viable business strategies we just have

0:31:25.600,0:31:29.840
to figure out what the plan is

0:31:27.440,0:31:31.919
yeah yeah when it comes to like

0:31:29.840,0:31:33.039
inventory forecasting i remember i was

0:31:31.919,0:31:34.960
in-house with a

0:31:33.039,0:31:36.559
uh with a brand that was a sold

0:31:34.960,0:31:37.919
supplements and stuff like that

0:31:36.559,0:31:39.679
yeah and at the time i was trying to

0:31:37.919,0:31:41.519
figure out how to do inventory

0:31:39.679,0:31:42.159
forecasting and it was like surprisingly

0:31:41.519,0:31:44.880
difficult

0:31:42.159,0:31:46.640
i think like netsuite was the only thing

0:31:44.880,0:31:49.200
i could find that did it

0:31:46.640,0:31:51.679
um is that something are there good

0:31:49.200,0:31:54.240
tools for that these days

0:31:51.679,0:31:54.880
if there are i don't know about them yet

0:31:54.240,0:31:56.640
um

0:31:54.880,0:31:58.320
and i will say we are in the process of

0:31:56.640,0:31:59.919
hiring someone to

0:31:58.320,0:32:01.679
be in a dedicated role that will own

0:31:59.919,0:32:02.240
that responsibility so supply chain

0:32:01.679,0:32:04.399
manager

0:32:02.240,0:32:06.240
i saw yeah you got a senior supply chain

0:32:04.399,0:32:08.080
manager role that's posted

0:32:06.240,0:32:09.919
um you know when i first got here i was

0:32:08.080,0:32:11.760
focused on trying to fix the fixing the

0:32:09.919,0:32:14.320
marketing and fixing some of the ecom

0:32:11.760,0:32:15.760
issues and then over the last four or

0:32:14.320,0:32:17.360
five months now i've been part of this

0:32:15.760,0:32:19.279
weekly meeting where we talk about

0:32:17.360,0:32:20.559
inventory planning and ordering and

0:32:19.279,0:32:23.440
forecasting

0:32:20.559,0:32:24.480
um so we're um institutionally our

0:32:23.440,0:32:26.159
organization we're much more

0:32:24.480,0:32:26.960
cross-functional than we were before and

0:32:26.159,0:32:28.240
so

0:32:26.960,0:32:29.600
it's been great to be part of those

0:32:28.240,0:32:31.120
conversations and that's where i've been

0:32:29.600,0:32:31.919
sort of driving this limited edition

0:32:31.120,0:32:35.279
philosophy

0:32:31.919,0:32:37.440
and um how we want to manage um

0:32:35.279,0:32:38.559
i'd say we're better than ever before by

0:32:37.440,0:32:40.480
far um

0:32:38.559,0:32:42.240
but when covet i mean your your original

0:32:40.480,0:32:44.880
question around kovid too like how

0:32:42.240,0:32:47.279
how are we affected by that yeah um

0:32:44.880,0:32:49.519
transparently we

0:32:47.279,0:32:50.880
we had a great february it was the best

0:32:49.519,0:32:53.360
february we'd ever had

0:32:50.880,0:32:56.080
um as a company and we were on pace to

0:32:53.360,0:32:59.200
have a really great march and covid hit

0:32:56.080,0:32:59.600
and we reacted i reacted i take full

0:32:59.200,0:33:01.200
resp

0:32:59.600,0:33:03.360
we sort of drew down on spend quite a

0:33:01.200,0:33:05.120
bit just like hey let's just be cautious

0:33:03.360,0:33:07.279
so march was a little bit of a dip but

0:33:05.120,0:33:08.640
again focused on the bottom line instead

0:33:07.279,0:33:10.799
of the top line growth

0:33:08.640,0:33:13.039
april took off like crazy may was the

0:33:10.799,0:33:15.360
best month ever for the company

0:33:13.039,0:33:16.559
and then we hit the summertime month

0:33:15.360,0:33:19.760
where

0:33:16.559,0:33:21.360
we started to i started to worry frankly

0:33:19.760,0:33:23.360
i always think about inventory as like

0:33:21.360,0:33:25.200
the road ahead and and the last thing we

0:33:23.360,0:33:27.039
want to be doing is continuing to

0:33:25.200,0:33:29.120
to push to create demand when we know

0:33:27.039,0:33:31.039
we're going to run out of road ahead

0:33:29.120,0:33:32.559
so we sort of deliberately lifted off on

0:33:31.039,0:33:33.760
the accelerate a little bit and sort of

0:33:32.559,0:33:34.480
coasted through the summer months to

0:33:33.760,0:33:35.760
give us

0:33:34.480,0:33:37.600
because it takes us time to get

0:33:35.760,0:33:41.279
inventory from overseas

0:33:37.600,0:33:44.559
um it's like 90 to 100 days um

0:33:41.279,0:33:44.960
it's pretty bad so due in july and

0:33:44.559,0:33:46.720
august

0:33:44.960,0:33:48.320
we still had great months especially

0:33:46.720,0:33:49.840
when you think about how much we had

0:33:48.320,0:33:52.000
actually available to sell from an

0:33:49.840,0:33:53.919
inventory perspective and now we're just

0:33:52.000,0:33:55.600
now it's back you know pedal to metal

0:33:53.919,0:33:56.720
just slammed you know if you

0:33:55.600,0:33:58.240
been to the site you're going to start

0:33:56.720,0:33:59.519
seeing all kind of stuff on facebook and

0:33:58.240,0:34:00.960
youtube and right we're going to reach

0:33:59.519,0:34:02.640
right back out of you but

0:34:00.960,0:34:04.640
so we're spending everywhere to kind of

0:34:02.640,0:34:06.640
continue to really drive this month's

0:34:04.640,0:34:08.079
a killer month i'm really looking

0:34:06.640,0:34:09.359
forward to finishing out the year strong

0:34:08.079,0:34:11.760
through q4 but it

0:34:09.359,0:34:13.440
that was a real learning for me of like

0:34:11.760,0:34:14.879
you know where do you turn stuff off we

0:34:13.440,0:34:16.240
actually turned facebook completely off

0:34:14.879,0:34:18.879
for a couple weeks

0:34:16.240,0:34:20.320
um because we were you know the thought

0:34:18.879,0:34:21.520
was why would you pay to create demand

0:34:20.320,0:34:23.040
you can't satisfy

0:34:21.520,0:34:25.440
right it just doesn't make any sense at

0:34:23.040,0:34:25.919
all and so yeah by doing that we got to

0:34:25.440,0:34:28.800
learn

0:34:25.919,0:34:30.240
really directly what other channels

0:34:28.800,0:34:32.240
facebook was influencing into what

0:34:30.240,0:34:34.480
degree they were influencing at

0:34:32.240,0:34:36.639
um this is a great you know it's been a

0:34:34.480,0:34:38.800
killer year in terms of learnings for us

0:34:36.639,0:34:40.079
yeah when it comes to supply chain do

0:34:38.800,0:34:41.839
you see

0:34:40.079,0:34:43.520
do you things do you see things with the

0:34:41.839,0:34:43.839
economic and political situation do you

0:34:43.520,0:34:47.040
think

0:34:43.839,0:34:48.720
see things reshuffling i know some

0:34:47.040,0:34:50.480
supply chain is going from china to

0:34:48.720,0:34:53.760
vietnam that kind of a thing

0:34:50.480,0:34:55.119
um do you see things shifting

0:34:53.760,0:34:57.839
significantly

0:34:55.119,0:35:00.960
um or is it like hey things once things

0:34:57.839,0:35:02.800
kind of went back to normal demand wise

0:35:00.960,0:35:04.400
uh brands like you guys would kind of

0:35:02.800,0:35:04.960
fire back up with the existing supply

0:35:04.400,0:35:07.680
chain

0:35:04.960,0:35:10.000
yeah we actually had been in the process

0:35:07.680,0:35:13.280
of diversifying our supply chain before

0:35:10.000,0:35:14.400
this hit um you know i

0:35:13.280,0:35:17.359
wasn't part of all of those

0:35:14.400,0:35:18.560
conversations um but uh

0:35:17.359,0:35:20.079
we're in the process of actually

0:35:18.560,0:35:21.040
spinning up a new factory relationship

0:35:20.079,0:35:22.560
in vietnam

0:35:21.040,0:35:24.720
the pro the challenge there is it

0:35:22.560,0:35:26.400
actually created it creates another 10

0:35:24.720,0:35:27.599
days on the water to get to hong kong to

0:35:26.400,0:35:30.640
get here so it's

0:35:27.599,0:35:33.200
you know it's it's yeah

0:35:30.640,0:35:34.320
it's it's the dynamics are super

0:35:33.200,0:35:36.880
interesting right i keep

0:35:34.320,0:35:38.160
um me being you know i have no footwear

0:35:36.880,0:35:39.200
experience at all and so i come into

0:35:38.160,0:35:40.320
business like hey can't we get these

0:35:39.200,0:35:41.839
made somewhere else

0:35:40.320,0:35:44.560
like can we go to mexico and have these

0:35:41.839,0:35:46.160
do we like 3d print these or something

0:35:44.560,0:35:48.960
anywhere else other than where it is

0:35:46.160,0:35:51.920
just because if i want to order

0:35:48.960,0:35:52.560
you know a replenishment of x colorway

0:35:51.920,0:35:53.839
it just

0:35:52.560,0:35:56.000
takes forever right if we missed the

0:35:53.839,0:35:59.280
boat and forgot to do something or

0:35:56.000,0:36:01.200
yeah it's a harsh mistress i mean you

0:35:59.280,0:36:02.880
get penalized quickly right if you don't

0:36:01.200,0:36:04.240
if you're not really on the forefront of

0:36:02.880,0:36:05.680
leading that and so

0:36:04.240,0:36:07.680
yeah the way i keep thinking about it

0:36:05.680,0:36:11.119
and i'm not sure i'm right about it but

0:36:07.680,0:36:13.680
my simple guy mind is like um

0:36:11.119,0:36:15.280
i think of it as a wave form right so oh

0:36:13.680,0:36:16.560
inventory's high now it's low let's

0:36:15.280,0:36:18.000
place a big reorder and then it goes

0:36:16.560,0:36:20.000
high again and i always i want to just

0:36:18.000,0:36:21.040
kind of do this i want to have many more

0:36:20.000,0:36:23.200
frequent orders

0:36:21.040,0:36:25.040
of smaller batch quantities and

0:36:23.200,0:36:27.200
constantly be trying to predict and

0:36:25.040,0:36:30.160
learn from what just happened

0:36:27.200,0:36:31.680
from a demand perspective oh you know

0:36:30.160,0:36:32.640
the keep the thing i keep thinking about

0:36:31.680,0:36:34.240
for next year is

0:36:32.640,0:36:36.079
when we go and start pushing into new

0:36:34.240,0:36:38.480
channels let's say i can effectuate

0:36:36.079,0:36:40.160
a 25 increase in demand i can't just

0:36:38.480,0:36:41.440
turn that on

0:36:40.160,0:36:43.200
it's going to put us right back where we

0:36:41.440,0:36:44.000
were in june and july right like what

0:36:43.200,0:36:45.760
what if we go

0:36:44.000,0:36:48.000
do radio spots or we do podcast

0:36:45.760,0:36:49.920
sponsorships whatever we're going to do

0:36:48.000,0:36:52.560
i have to be responsible about the

0:36:49.920,0:36:54.800
pacing of when we start to roll that out

0:36:52.560,0:36:55.760
so we can let inventory catch up to that

0:36:54.800,0:36:57.520
increase in demand

0:36:55.760,0:36:59.119
right we can't just do a nationwide

0:36:57.520,0:37:01.680
thing and

0:36:59.119,0:37:03.280
it's not a good use of uh funds and

0:37:01.680,0:37:05.119
resources yeah

0:37:03.280,0:37:06.800
i keep wondering like i know nothing

0:37:05.119,0:37:08.640
about manufacturing anything like that

0:37:06.800,0:37:10.160
but i keep wondering like when is like

0:37:08.640,0:37:12.640
3d printing

0:37:10.160,0:37:14.160
uh you know going to be possible at some

0:37:12.640,0:37:16.079
sort of scale like you're talking about

0:37:14.160,0:37:18.720
these smaller batches

0:37:16.079,0:37:20.560
um and like it's got to happen at some

0:37:18.720,0:37:22.880
point maybe it's 50 years out

0:37:20.560,0:37:24.640
you know i have no idea yeah i don't

0:37:22.880,0:37:27.839
know i just

0:37:24.640,0:37:30.400
uh i wish i knew um and

0:37:27.839,0:37:32.079
and even here's what here's the other

0:37:30.400,0:37:33.200
fun story that i get told a lot again i

0:37:32.079,0:37:34.560
haven't been over there to watch it

0:37:33.200,0:37:36.640
myself but

0:37:34.560,0:37:38.320
um you know we're now hiring a lot of

0:37:36.640,0:37:38.560
people from within the footwear space

0:37:38.320,0:37:39.839
and

0:37:38.560,0:37:41.440
obviously our ceo's been doing this for

0:37:39.839,0:37:43.359
a long time and he talks to a ton of

0:37:41.440,0:37:44.960
people who are really tapped in

0:37:43.359,0:37:46.480
and the story that i keep hearing i'm

0:37:44.960,0:37:47.359
not going to name the specific name but

0:37:46.480,0:37:48.560
one of the major

0:37:47.359,0:37:50.320
you know let's call them tier two

0:37:48.560,0:37:52.160
manufacturers in this in the in the in

0:37:50.320,0:37:54.480
the sneaker market

0:37:52.160,0:37:56.400
making all of their shoes one of their

0:37:54.480,0:38:00.079
best selling shoes in china

0:37:56.400,0:38:02.079
and they migrated manufacturing to a new

0:38:00.079,0:38:03.520
a new facility in vietnam owned by the

0:38:02.079,0:38:05.520
same parent

0:38:03.520,0:38:07.280
china sent over all their top employees

0:38:05.520,0:38:08.560
to vietnam to make sure it went well and

0:38:07.280,0:38:11.760
they still didn't get it right

0:38:08.560,0:38:12.480
it took a year for the fit and the

0:38:11.760,0:38:14.160
sizing

0:38:12.480,0:38:15.920
for everything to come all the sort of

0:38:14.160,0:38:17.280
errors and things like that to kind of

0:38:15.920,0:38:19.200
get worked out like

0:38:17.280,0:38:21.599
right footwear is just one of those

0:38:19.200,0:38:23.280
really weird things where

0:38:21.599,0:38:24.880
you think that's just a half a size

0:38:23.280,0:38:26.720
right a half a size is like the length

0:38:24.880,0:38:28.640
of when you stack four credit cards on

0:38:26.720,0:38:30.240
top of each other it's four millimeters

0:38:28.640,0:38:32.320
that's a half a size

0:38:30.240,0:38:33.760
and if i put one half size different on

0:38:32.320,0:38:35.200
your feet you would absolutely

0:38:33.760,0:38:35.920
immediately know whether it fit right or

0:38:35.200,0:38:38.720
not

0:38:35.920,0:38:40.480
right and so like nailing the fit and

0:38:38.720,0:38:42.240
nailing the manufacturing process and

0:38:40.480,0:38:43.920
doing it

0:38:42.240,0:38:45.520
even across to if you had you know

0:38:43.920,0:38:47.280
sourcing in two different factories

0:38:45.520,0:38:48.960
especially in two different countries

0:38:47.280,0:38:51.599
for the shoe you're calling the same

0:38:48.960,0:38:53.520
thing it just it's

0:38:51.599,0:38:54.800
six is whether they come out you know

0:38:53.520,0:38:57.200
the same and so

0:38:54.800,0:38:58.079
yeah now imagine try to do that with a

0:38:57.200,0:39:00.480
3d printer

0:38:58.079,0:39:02.320
right instead of a more industrialized

0:39:00.480,0:39:03.839
manufacturing process that is in theory

0:39:02.320,0:39:05.680
all the same right so

0:39:03.839,0:39:06.880
yeah yeah i don't know what i don't know

0:39:05.680,0:39:08.480
about it but it's just it's a

0:39:06.880,0:39:10.640
fascinating business man

0:39:08.480,0:39:11.520
it is fun digging in and learning about

0:39:10.640,0:39:13.280
it myself

0:39:11.520,0:39:15.359
that's awesome you kind of touched on

0:39:13.280,0:39:16.880
this a little bit talking about kind of

0:39:15.359,0:39:18.320
cross departmental

0:39:16.880,0:39:19.760
improving kind of the way your

0:39:18.320,0:39:20.960
departments speak to each other and you

0:39:19.760,0:39:23.040
posted about your

0:39:20.960,0:39:24.720
customer team talking regularly with

0:39:23.040,0:39:27.760
your product team

0:39:24.720,0:39:29.839
and being excited about that how do you

0:39:27.760,0:39:30.800
get those dialogues going between the

0:39:29.839,0:39:32.480
teams

0:39:30.800,0:39:33.920
and what are some of the benefits that

0:39:32.480,0:39:37.359
you're seeing

0:39:33.920,0:39:41.040
that's a great question um it was

0:39:37.359,0:39:43.920
um i at the end of the day

0:39:41.040,0:39:45.839
the way we've done it is it's great that

0:39:43.920,0:39:47.680
the customer team reports to me so i can

0:39:45.839,0:39:48.400
just ask them hey let's get back in the

0:39:47.680,0:39:49.599
habit

0:39:48.400,0:39:51.520
so there's the first part of the

0:39:49.599,0:39:52.640
management process is managing them to

0:39:51.520,0:39:53.680
make sure that they're capturing and

0:39:52.640,0:39:55.119
having those conversations they have

0:39:53.680,0:39:57.280
them all the time

0:39:55.119,0:39:59.200
when i arrived i think those barriers

0:39:57.280,0:40:01.119
were pretty well established and things

0:39:59.200,0:40:03.520
were happening in silos and

0:40:01.119,0:40:05.040
um they tried sort of capturing that

0:40:03.520,0:40:06.400
data and forwarding it along but it

0:40:05.040,0:40:07.920
wasn't being used and so they stopped

0:40:06.400,0:40:10.640
doing it right and so

0:40:07.920,0:40:11.839
um i i think it's it's it's the first

0:40:10.640,0:40:14.240
thing is to model it

0:40:11.839,0:40:16.480
personally and model it in in my team on

0:40:14.240,0:40:19.119
the marketing and ecom side and so

0:40:16.480,0:40:20.160
we actually created i just i feel like

0:40:19.119,0:40:22.400
i'm running this whole business on a

0:40:20.160,0:40:24.960
bunch of google sheets at this point but

0:40:22.400,0:40:26.720
we created a new google sheet uh no one

0:40:24.960,0:40:28.079
inside of crew is going to be surprised

0:40:26.720,0:40:30.000
that that's the answer

0:40:28.079,0:40:31.680
um and inside that sheet there's

0:40:30.000,0:40:33.760
multiple tabs and we've got

0:40:31.680,0:40:35.200
um those those frontline folks that you

0:40:33.760,0:40:37.520
mentioned right they're dealing with

0:40:35.200,0:40:38.079
people in chat and sms and email and

0:40:37.520,0:40:41.040
social

0:40:38.079,0:40:42.079
and phone and that's a great place for

0:40:41.040,0:40:43.599
us to have

0:40:42.079,0:40:45.440
uh to capture that feedback from

0:40:43.599,0:40:46.000
customers and so we have a product tab

0:40:45.440,0:40:48.720
where they

0:40:46.000,0:40:49.680
capture product feedback and then on the

0:40:48.720,0:40:51.760
ecom side

0:40:49.680,0:40:54.079
we have a different um you know we have

0:40:51.760,0:40:55.440
a bugs channel inside of um slack so

0:40:54.079,0:40:56.880
anytime anything goes wrong it gets

0:40:55.440,0:40:58.640
reported through a customer like that

0:40:56.880,0:40:59.839
gets visibility immediately my team

0:40:58.640,0:41:01.839
accepts it

0:40:59.839,0:41:03.200
um immediately actions it and then you

0:41:01.839,0:41:04.800
know reports back when it's been done

0:41:03.200,0:41:06.640
and reports back what they found

0:41:04.800,0:41:08.079
so that's been super helpful in sort of

0:41:06.640,0:41:09.839
setting that stage around hey we're

0:41:08.079,0:41:11.280
reactive to this kind of feedback and we

0:41:09.839,0:41:12.400
want it and thank you for bringing it to

0:41:11.280,0:41:13.280
our attention because it helps us get

0:41:12.400,0:41:15.520
better

0:41:13.280,0:41:16.800
so that's the first step and we create

0:41:15.520,0:41:20.000
another tab in that google sheet

0:41:16.800,0:41:21.760
for when that same team has ideas for

0:41:20.000,0:41:22.560
how we can improve the the website right

0:41:21.760,0:41:24.079
so they'll say

0:41:22.560,0:41:25.920
wow have you thought about this new

0:41:24.079,0:41:26.720
category or what about this other thing

0:41:25.920,0:41:28.240
or

0:41:26.720,0:41:29.760
you know when you when you click between

0:41:28.240,0:41:33.119
colors sometimes the

0:41:29.760,0:41:34.720
the the the image doesn't swap correctly

0:41:33.119,0:41:35.920
it's like oh my gosh that's a known bug

0:41:34.720,0:41:37.119
thanks for reporting it we're going to

0:41:35.920,0:41:38.560
fix that soon we got a

0:41:37.119,0:41:39.839
you know a project in the queue we've

0:41:38.560,0:41:41.040
got the development team looking at it

0:41:39.839,0:41:42.960
whatever it is

0:41:41.040,0:41:44.319
and so we just we owe them the feedback

0:41:42.960,0:41:46.240
and constantly

0:41:44.319,0:41:48.000
saying hey thanks for that idea let's go

0:41:46.240,0:41:49.359
we're going to prioritize it and

0:41:48.000,0:41:51.760
sometimes the answer is we're not gonna

0:41:49.359,0:41:53.040
do that but let's be transparent about

0:41:51.760,0:41:55.200
why we're not gonna do it

0:41:53.040,0:41:56.560
and don't treat them like kindergartners

0:41:55.200,0:41:57.200
right it's like treat them like adults

0:41:56.560,0:41:59.760
that are bringing

0:41:57.200,0:42:00.240
valuable ideas to the business and i

0:41:59.760,0:42:01.680
think

0:42:00.240,0:42:03.680
you'd be surprised what you'd get out of

0:42:01.680,0:42:05.520
a team like that and so that's created

0:42:03.680,0:42:08.079
that level of engagement and now

0:42:05.520,0:42:09.280
you know me as svp i come in and i say

0:42:08.079,0:42:11.359
hey product team

0:42:09.280,0:42:12.960
here's these 50 ideas that we spent lots

0:42:11.359,0:42:14.640
and lots of time gathering from our

0:42:12.960,0:42:15.280
customers and we've quantified it for

0:42:14.640,0:42:16.480
you

0:42:15.280,0:42:17.920
if there's anything we need to make it

0:42:16.480,0:42:19.440
more actionable from your perspective

0:42:17.920,0:42:20.880
let us know but

0:42:19.440,0:42:22.160
here you go let's have a dialogue about

0:42:20.880,0:42:22.960
what you guys are planning to do with

0:42:22.160,0:42:24.800
this information

0:42:22.960,0:42:26.640
and they've been really receptive to it

0:42:24.800,0:42:29.040
you know that's good

0:42:26.640,0:42:30.800
so if you model it first and then you

0:42:29.040,0:42:32.319
sort of dog-footed a little bit on your

0:42:30.800,0:42:33.839
own team of like hey

0:42:32.319,0:42:35.680
we want that feedback we want to get

0:42:33.839,0:42:36.800
better and that becomes that starts to

0:42:35.680,0:42:38.000
create a

0:42:36.800,0:42:39.280
whole sort of culture inside the

0:42:38.000,0:42:40.319
business where everybody's thinking

0:42:39.280,0:42:42.960
about that the same way

0:42:40.319,0:42:44.560
yeah when it comes to the live chat i

0:42:42.960,0:42:46.079
think you'd mentioned that you were

0:42:44.560,0:42:47.520
thinking about getting rid of it because

0:42:46.079,0:42:50.640
it was a performance

0:42:47.520,0:42:52.640
uh performance hog

0:42:50.640,0:42:54.880
i did notice the chat button on the site

0:42:52.640,0:42:55.839
this morning but it seems like it's a

0:42:54.880,0:42:59.040
it's a paired

0:42:55.839,0:43:01.040
version of the chat yeah yeah we um it's

0:42:59.040,0:43:02.880
funny we just moved from zendesk to

0:43:01.040,0:43:04.480
gladly and could not be happier like

0:43:02.880,0:43:05.280
it's creating efficiencies inside the

0:43:04.480,0:43:08.319
business that

0:43:05.280,0:43:12.000
are phenomenal um my head of

0:43:08.319,0:43:13.359
cx did a full evaluation of everybody in

0:43:12.000,0:43:15.280
that space

0:43:13.359,0:43:17.280
um concluded that gladly and then and

0:43:15.280,0:43:18.640
then manage the the migration i mean it

0:43:17.280,0:43:19.839
went as smoothly as anything like that

0:43:18.640,0:43:22.400
i've ever seen and so

0:43:19.839,0:43:23.680
kudos to him he's doing a great job and

0:43:22.400,0:43:24.240
that whole team is doing a great job as

0:43:23.680,0:43:27.680
well

0:43:24.240,0:43:29.040
got a lot of reporting in there i think

0:43:27.680,0:43:30.160
there's a whole site speed initiative

0:43:29.040,0:43:31.599
we're going to be focused on for next

0:43:30.160,0:43:33.440
year where i do want to revisit that

0:43:31.599,0:43:36.480
chat like what are the triggers

0:43:33.440,0:43:38.240
do we just move to a full sms based um

0:43:36.480,0:43:39.680
you know conversation where it's like

0:43:38.240,0:43:41.680
it's constantly it's persistent it

0:43:39.680,0:43:42.079
doesn't pop proactively but if you need

0:43:41.680,0:43:44.240
to

0:43:42.079,0:43:46.000
message someone and then we manage sms

0:43:44.240,0:43:47.520
as though it's chat it's real time

0:43:46.000,0:43:48.880
right we staff it so if you're going to

0:43:47.520,0:43:50.079
send us a message we're going to answer

0:43:48.880,0:43:54.319
you right away

0:43:50.079,0:43:56.160
um what what would we lose i mean how do

0:43:54.319,0:43:57.440
we then get those more frequently asked

0:43:56.160,0:43:58.800
questions that we don't have to have a

0:43:57.440,0:44:00.160
human interaction that we can get you

0:43:58.800,0:44:03.359
the same answer

0:44:00.160,0:44:05.440
um yeah that's sort of the sidekick i

0:44:03.359,0:44:07.280
think they call it and gladly the little

0:44:05.440,0:44:09.280
little widget that says when you pop it

0:44:07.280,0:44:10.560
up to chat the first four or five things

0:44:09.280,0:44:11.839
we sort of see that were the most

0:44:10.560,0:44:12.880
frequently asked questions like hey are

0:44:11.839,0:44:14.480
you available in stores no we're not

0:44:12.880,0:44:16.720
available in stores here's why

0:44:14.480,0:44:17.920
um so we sort of cut out the middleman

0:44:16.720,0:44:19.520
here's you know we get a better product

0:44:17.920,0:44:22.400
to you for less money

0:44:19.520,0:44:23.119
um we do have a small um corporate

0:44:22.400,0:44:24.960
headquarter

0:44:23.119,0:44:26.319
based sort of um you know retail that

0:44:24.960,0:44:27.839
sits in front but it's closed because

0:44:26.319,0:44:31.200
coped right so

0:44:27.839,0:44:32.880
right um right i'm super interested in

0:44:31.200,0:44:34.079
testing that and exploring it like would

0:44:32.880,0:44:36.960
we lose anything

0:44:34.079,0:44:37.359
if we got rid of chat completely who was

0:44:36.960,0:44:38.960
uh

0:44:37.359,0:44:40.640
who was talking about that race it was

0:44:38.960,0:44:41.440
the beer brand guys it's the same

0:44:40.640,0:44:43.440
interview with

0:44:41.440,0:44:45.200
um with dennis he mentioned the fact

0:44:43.440,0:44:47.359
that they're not doing any chat

0:44:45.200,0:44:48.800
um in his podcast i was super interested

0:44:47.359,0:44:50.000
to learn that it's like i wanna i'd love

0:44:48.800,0:44:51.440
to dig in with him and understand

0:44:50.000,0:44:52.720
what the he feels like they're losing

0:44:51.440,0:44:54.960
from not having it on the site because

0:44:52.720,0:44:56.960
it's a great performer for us

0:44:54.960,0:44:58.400
but man if site speed matters to you

0:44:56.960,0:45:00.319
everywhere i've never seen one that's

0:44:58.400,0:45:03.040
not a resource hawk have you

0:45:00.319,0:45:04.880
right right um i you know that's a good

0:45:03.040,0:45:08.000
question i use uh help scout but i

0:45:04.880,0:45:09.839
i really haven't drilled in as

0:45:08.000,0:45:11.200
carefully as i probably should have on

0:45:09.839,0:45:14.640
some of those performance

0:45:11.200,0:45:14.960
issues um i come from the seo space so

0:45:14.640,0:45:17.920
i'm

0:45:14.960,0:45:20.160
super like you know it's site speed is

0:45:17.920,0:45:23.920
like a major major issue in my mind

0:45:20.160,0:45:25.599
all the time and um i don't know it's

0:45:23.920,0:45:28.000
it's tempting it's very tempting to just

0:45:25.599,0:45:29.920
turn it off and go sms completely

0:45:28.000,0:45:31.920
yeah what are uh what are some of the

0:45:29.920,0:45:33.440
other things you like about gladly over

0:45:31.920,0:45:36.640
over zendesk for

0:45:33.440,0:45:38.000
for customer support um some of the

0:45:36.640,0:45:40.000
reporting has been excellent

0:45:38.000,0:45:41.680
um a lot of the stuff that we were doing

0:45:40.000,0:45:43.440
through zendesk through a third-party

0:45:41.680,0:45:44.400
plug-in comes native to gladly and so

0:45:43.440,0:45:46.319
that was a big part of the

0:45:44.400,0:45:48.880
decision-making process

0:45:46.319,0:45:50.000
um the scalability for us as we scale

0:45:48.880,0:45:51.200
and you know our we've got pretty

0:45:50.000,0:45:53.599
aggressive growth plans

0:45:51.200,0:45:54.720
um and if we get anywhere near where

0:45:53.599,0:45:56.079
we're going to be you know we want to be

0:45:54.720,0:45:57.760
next year and the year after

0:45:56.079,0:45:59.680
um it's going to be a lot cheaper and

0:45:57.760,0:46:01.359
zendesk looks better when you sort of

0:45:59.680,0:46:03.599
look at it initially but

0:46:01.359,0:46:04.800
um the minutes start to price and scale

0:46:03.599,0:46:06.240
up yeah

0:46:04.800,0:46:08.240
yeah like that was a big that was a big

0:46:06.240,0:46:09.920
part of the cost structure within zen

0:46:08.240,0:46:11.599
uh we were super happy with zen too that

0:46:09.920,0:46:13.280
was the thing it's not like you know

0:46:11.599,0:46:14.800
he was ready to sign another year and i

0:46:13.280,0:46:15.520
asked i challenged him i said you know

0:46:14.800,0:46:17.040
are you have you

0:46:15.520,0:46:18.160
looked at everybody else he's like no i

0:46:17.040,0:46:19.200
really haven't i said well maybe you

0:46:18.160,0:46:20.720
should yeah

0:46:19.200,0:46:22.720
yeah and so here we are a year later

0:46:20.720,0:46:24.560
he's you know or he's super happy i mean

0:46:22.720,0:46:25.680
the team's very happy the workflows that

0:46:24.560,0:46:27.200
it creates

0:46:25.680,0:46:29.599
one of the things that we really really

0:46:27.200,0:46:31.200
like is if you interact at all with one

0:46:29.599,0:46:32.880
of our team members

0:46:31.200,0:46:34.480
and go into any other channel and it

0:46:32.880,0:46:36.000
recognizes you it tries to connect you

0:46:34.480,0:46:37.760
with that same team member so you now

0:46:36.000,0:46:40.160
have almost more of a one-to-one sort of

0:46:37.760,0:46:41.760
a hero

0:46:40.160,0:46:43.680
to be able to deal with that specific

0:46:41.760,0:46:47.040
person i love that

0:46:43.680,0:46:48.560
um just as a consumer when i'm in in

0:46:47.040,0:46:50.079
dealing with some other companies

0:46:48.560,0:46:52.640
whether it was faked or real it felt

0:46:50.079,0:46:55.440
real to me so they handled it

0:46:52.640,0:46:56.800
i recall specifically um buying an

0:46:55.440,0:46:58.000
electric guitar for my oldest for

0:46:56.800,0:46:59.280
christmas a couple years ago from

0:46:58.000,0:47:01.680
sweetwater

0:46:59.280,0:47:03.440
and the person that the order

0:47:01.680,0:47:04.960
confirmation email came from the person

0:47:03.440,0:47:06.640
that i interacted with while i was

0:47:04.960,0:47:09.760
asking some questions in chat i was like

0:47:06.640,0:47:10.160
whoa that's pretty cool yeah yeah and

0:47:09.760,0:47:11.680
then

0:47:10.160,0:47:12.800
you know a year later he follows up it's

0:47:11.680,0:47:13.839
like anything else you need i'm like oh

0:47:12.800,0:47:16.000
man that's great

0:47:13.839,0:47:17.760
you know yeah yeah that is smart i was

0:47:16.000,0:47:18.640
recently getting some support for a

0:47:17.760,0:47:21.359
budgeting app

0:47:18.640,0:47:23.119
and there's some email support and then

0:47:21.359,0:47:26.319
uh the person did a

0:47:23.119,0:47:28.319
video response and i was having a hard

0:47:26.319,0:47:30.640
time reconciling my accounts

0:47:28.319,0:47:31.839
she did a video thing with her voice you

0:47:30.640,0:47:33.920
know voice over express

0:47:31.839,0:47:36.319
six minute video and then another like

0:47:33.920,0:47:38.240
seven and i felt such a like

0:47:36.319,0:47:39.760
connection like afterwards i tweeted i

0:47:38.240,0:47:41.920
was like oh you were great

0:47:39.760,0:47:43.040
and i just i felt such a connection

0:47:41.920,0:47:45.599
especially with the the

0:47:43.040,0:47:46.640
hearing the voice of that one individual

0:47:45.599,0:47:48.640
support rep that was

0:47:46.640,0:47:50.240
it's it's one i've again listened to

0:47:48.640,0:47:52.640
some really fascinating

0:47:50.240,0:47:54.240
podcasts recently talking about that as

0:47:52.640,0:47:58.079
well and i was like um

0:47:54.240,0:47:59.680
like that's really um attempting to want

0:47:58.079,0:48:02.079
to go test something like that like

0:47:59.680,0:48:03.119
is there a way to get scale where we

0:48:02.079,0:48:05.200
could have our team

0:48:03.119,0:48:06.480
just record quick videos or audio

0:48:05.200,0:48:08.160
voiceovers we just had

0:48:06.480,0:48:09.839
everyone had a new headshot created

0:48:08.160,0:48:11.440
that's kind of on brand having some fun

0:48:09.839,0:48:12.960
with the shoes as part of their headshot

0:48:11.440,0:48:14.480
that's now injected in part you know

0:48:12.960,0:48:16.559
every time we email from our customer

0:48:14.480,0:48:18.160
team you get that headshot

0:48:16.559,0:48:19.760
just the whole personal like putting a

0:48:18.160,0:48:20.079
human connect putting a human to the

0:48:19.760,0:48:22.400
face

0:48:20.079,0:48:23.680
of the the brand it's just one of those

0:48:22.400,0:48:24.720
things especially it's part of our

0:48:23.680,0:48:26.160
definite um

0:48:24.720,0:48:27.920
you know brand ethos of who we want to

0:48:26.160,0:48:29.359
be we want to be human you know human to

0:48:27.920,0:48:32.240
human and one-to-one

0:48:29.359,0:48:34.720
more so than sort of a big huge

0:48:32.240,0:48:35.920
corporate facade it's not us you know

0:48:34.720,0:48:38.160
hopefully it never will yeah

0:48:35.920,0:48:40.960
yeah that actually ties in greatly to

0:48:38.160,0:48:43.040
this this last uh question i got for you

0:48:40.960,0:48:45.040
uh you posted your favorite uh business

0:48:43.040,0:48:46.960
one of your favorite business quotes

0:48:45.040,0:48:48.480
uh do what we love in the service of

0:48:46.960,0:48:50.640
people who love what they do

0:48:48.480,0:48:52.480
yeah i i love that and i just want to

0:48:50.640,0:48:55.359
know more about what that means to you

0:48:52.480,0:48:55.680
uh it's just it's it i think it couples

0:48:55.359,0:48:57.200
in

0:48:55.680,0:48:59.839
you know i've been doing this for a long

0:48:57.200,0:49:02.319
time um i'm an old fuddy duddy and

0:48:59.839,0:49:03.839
you come to sort of accept these

0:49:02.319,0:49:04.880
business principles as you know

0:49:03.839,0:49:06.000
the things that you've learned down

0:49:04.880,0:49:07.680
through the years and one of the things

0:49:06.000,0:49:09.599
that i really loved was um

0:49:07.680,0:49:11.040
you know the the the angus gallup that

0:49:09.599,0:49:12.480
owns the now discover your strengths the

0:49:11.040,0:49:15.200
strengths find it right of like

0:49:12.480,0:49:16.000
this whole principle of don't try to

0:49:15.200,0:49:18.800
solve things

0:49:16.000,0:49:19.040
you're you're bad at yourself go higher

0:49:18.800,0:49:20.319
and

0:49:19.040,0:49:22.400
and supplement that with other team

0:49:20.319,0:49:24.240
members that are really good at it

0:49:22.400,0:49:25.839
but lean into your strengths become

0:49:24.240,0:49:28.559
really really good at what you do

0:49:25.839,0:49:30.160
and and that whole concept of being so

0:49:28.559,0:49:32.480
human that um

0:49:30.160,0:49:34.480
you know when you're working in

0:49:32.480,0:49:36.720
especially in sort of a startup driven

0:49:34.480,0:49:37.680
you know aggressive culture like we have

0:49:36.720,0:49:38.800
at crew

0:49:37.680,0:49:40.800
even though we're not a startup you know

0:49:38.800,0:49:43.440
we're 12 years old now but

0:49:40.800,0:49:45.200
um you're going to work more you're

0:49:43.440,0:49:47.200
going to see those people in theory if

0:49:45.200,0:49:48.880
we're all working in an office

0:49:47.200,0:49:50.319
more than anyone other than your

0:49:48.880,0:49:53.520
significant other or your family

0:49:50.319,0:49:55.760
right you should be able to

0:49:53.520,0:49:56.800
build a team that really loves working

0:49:55.760,0:49:58.319
together and

0:49:56.800,0:50:00.400
loves being around each other and really

0:49:58.319,0:50:01.839
gets along and um

0:50:00.400,0:50:03.359
and challenges each other as well but

0:50:01.839,0:50:04.240
does it in a very professional way and

0:50:03.359,0:50:06.400
so

0:50:04.240,0:50:08.079
i just i believe that every one of us

0:50:06.400,0:50:10.000
should be focused on and that

0:50:08.079,0:50:11.280
it speaks to the customer connection

0:50:10.000,0:50:13.280
that we have too right that's the one

0:50:11.280,0:50:14.559
thing about crew is we really do solve a

0:50:13.280,0:50:15.440
specific job to be done for our

0:50:14.559,0:50:18.000
customers

0:50:15.440,0:50:20.000
we hear every single day we get reviews

0:50:18.000,0:50:22.000
that are like you changed my life

0:50:20.000,0:50:23.760
like there's if that doesn't get you out

0:50:22.000,0:50:25.359
of bed fired up like wanting to help

0:50:23.760,0:50:26.400
more people with foot pain i don't know

0:50:25.359,0:50:29.599
what will

0:50:26.400,0:50:31.200
um and it's a real pleasure and an honor

0:50:29.599,0:50:33.119
to be able to work in a company that

0:50:31.200,0:50:34.559
um especially coming at this late stage

0:50:33.119,0:50:36.640
right at 12 years in

0:50:34.559,0:50:37.680
and help really to take them to the next

0:50:36.640,0:50:38.960
level so

0:50:37.680,0:50:40.880
yeah i want to hire people that have

0:50:38.960,0:50:41.520
that same passion and that and that

0:50:40.880,0:50:43.280
respect

0:50:41.520,0:50:45.839
the team members cross-functionally

0:50:43.280,0:50:49.599
regardless of their function inside kuru

0:50:45.839,0:50:51.119
um i i try to um

0:50:49.599,0:50:52.319
live up to that value and i want

0:50:51.119,0:50:53.680
everyone else to think about it when

0:50:52.319,0:50:55.119
they're going about their daily lives as

0:50:53.680,0:50:56.800
well

0:50:55.119,0:50:58.160
i love it i love it well it was uh it

0:50:56.800,0:50:58.960
was great having a chat with you i

0:50:58.160,0:51:00.480
appreciate it

0:50:58.960,0:51:03.040
thanks for the environment where's the

0:51:00.480,0:51:04.720
uh yeah man uh where's the best place

0:51:03.040,0:51:07.280
for people to find you online

0:51:04.720,0:51:10.800
uh well on twitter at sean mcginnis uh

0:51:07.280,0:51:12.880
same name s-e-a-n-m-c-g-i-n-n-i-s

0:51:10.800,0:51:14.559
you can find me on linkedin in the same

0:51:12.880,0:51:15.599
facebook i kind of limit to the personal

0:51:14.559,0:51:18.319
connections but

0:51:15.599,0:51:18.800
um if we've had a conversation i'm never

0:51:18.319,0:51:21.280
afraid

0:51:18.800,0:51:23.359
to connect there either but uh yeah

0:51:21.280,0:51:24.800
happy to always connect and

0:51:23.359,0:51:26.880
help solve problems together if anyone

0:51:24.800,0:51:32.240
has a question or

0:51:26.880,0:51:32.240
love to love to chat more