Success!

#79 Watch Out For The Middleware | Miguel Balparda

Miguel Balparda is the Product Manager for Magento Cloud at Nexcess - a web hosting company specializing in Magento and other open source platforms.

As a Magento Master and open source Community Maintainer, Miguel can be found traveling the world imparting his Magento wisdom at events and approving pull requests everywhere else.

In this interview, we discuss remote work, Magento 1 safe harbor program, Magento 2 contribution, online events, and more.

Transcript
0:00:00.080,0:00:04.160
you shouldn't be compiling or building

0:00:02.000,0:00:06.000
your stuff in our production servers

0:00:04.160,0:00:07.759
there are times when people reach to us

0:00:06.000,0:00:10.559
and ask me to install i don't know

0:00:07.759,0:00:11.920
google chrome headless in our production

0:00:10.559,0:00:14.000
servers and i'm like

0:00:11.920,0:00:17.920
that doesn't make any sense that's not a

0:00:14.000,0:00:17.920
runtime dependency that's a build

0:00:22.120,0:00:31.840
[Music]

0:00:28.840,0:00:31.840
dependency

0:00:32.880,0:00:36.960
how you doing hey man how are you doing

0:00:35.440,0:00:39.040
these days it's been a while

0:00:36.960,0:00:40.320
it's been a while it's been a long time

0:00:39.040,0:00:42.399
how uh

0:00:40.320,0:00:43.920
we're in the middle of covid how's

0:00:42.399,0:00:44.960
everything going we're talking a little

0:00:43.920,0:00:48.480
bit about your

0:00:44.960,0:00:49.840
your covet hair hairstyle uh before we

0:00:48.480,0:00:52.640
started but

0:00:49.840,0:00:53.120
are you guys going hair stylies yeah it

0:00:52.640,0:00:55.199
just looks

0:00:53.120,0:00:56.879
good hairstyle is real man it's it's a

0:00:55.199,0:00:58.640
real thing like everybody has yeah

0:00:56.879,0:01:00.480
we had a call with mark from metallica

0:00:58.640,0:01:02.000
like a week ago and somebody was like

0:01:00.480,0:01:02.879
that's a really nice code here and he

0:01:02.000,0:01:04.879
was like

0:01:02.879,0:01:06.960
yeah that this is my regular hair and i

0:01:04.879,0:01:09.439
say the same

0:01:06.960,0:01:10.320
this is my regular hair yeah that was

0:01:09.439,0:01:12.720
hilarious

0:01:10.320,0:01:12.720
it's like

0:01:13.680,0:01:16.799
he's like i just got a haircut yesterday

0:01:15.840,0:01:19.600
this is this is

0:01:16.799,0:01:20.960
how i want it to look yeah dude but now

0:01:19.600,0:01:23.119
it's been it's been quiet

0:01:20.960,0:01:24.720
nobody travels these days so i actually

0:01:23.119,0:01:26.000
get to know my house you know we got

0:01:24.720,0:01:28.080
this really nice place like

0:01:26.000,0:01:29.360
two or three years ago but we haven't

0:01:28.080,0:01:31.680
stayed here for like

0:01:29.360,0:01:32.960
a really long period of time we came

0:01:31.680,0:01:35.040
here for like i don't know one or two

0:01:32.960,0:01:38.079
months a year and then we were traveling

0:01:35.040,0:01:40.159
so this house ended up being great like

0:01:38.079,0:01:41.759
we have three floors a patio a really

0:01:40.159,0:01:43.439
big barbecue pit

0:01:41.759,0:01:44.880
so i don't if i don't want to see my

0:01:43.439,0:01:46.399
girlfriend i can go just

0:01:44.880,0:01:48.560
i can go to a different floor and be

0:01:46.399,0:01:49.360
like okay i'm i'm here now i don't have

0:01:48.560,0:01:52.479
to see you

0:01:49.360,0:01:53.520
i don't see you for like three days just

0:01:52.479,0:01:55.920
hang out

0:01:53.520,0:01:56.640
that's cool it's been eating great i get

0:01:55.920,0:01:58.560
to know

0:01:56.640,0:02:00.000
like my house i get to see my family

0:01:58.560,0:02:01.119
well it's not like i get to see them

0:02:00.000,0:02:03.600
every day but it's been

0:02:01.119,0:02:06.240
it's been an interesting experience not

0:02:03.600,0:02:09.119
to travel for a long period of time

0:02:06.240,0:02:09.759
because you're a hardcore digital nomad

0:02:09.119,0:02:13.280
like

0:02:09.759,0:02:14.720
hardcore so i'm curious how that's going

0:02:13.280,0:02:17.840
for you without traveling

0:02:14.720,0:02:20.239
like are you liking it you're

0:02:17.840,0:02:21.200
like discovering like oh i like staying

0:02:20.239,0:02:23.440
home and

0:02:21.200,0:02:25.280
and a different a different side of you

0:02:23.440,0:02:27.920
a different part of your

0:02:25.280,0:02:28.879
life coming out more kind of a thing

0:02:27.920,0:02:30.080
yeah it's been

0:02:28.879,0:02:32.400
it's been a really interesting

0:02:30.080,0:02:34.400
experience definitely new for the last

0:02:32.400,0:02:35.760
seven or eight years we travel around i

0:02:34.400,0:02:38.400
don't know 65

0:02:35.760,0:02:41.200
between 65 and 75 percent of the year

0:02:38.400,0:02:43.200
which is like a lot of days maybe

0:02:41.200,0:02:45.200
one out of three days at the very least

0:02:43.200,0:02:46.480
and sometimes one out of two

0:02:45.200,0:02:48.720
so it's been it's been quite an

0:02:46.480,0:02:51.519
experience but i was traveling

0:02:48.720,0:02:52.560
right before this all this covet stop

0:02:51.519,0:02:54.319
stuff started

0:02:52.560,0:02:55.680
we were this year i went to india for

0:02:54.319,0:02:58.720
meet magento india

0:02:55.680,0:03:00.319
i met with my guy bj there and brent and

0:02:58.720,0:03:00.640
that's that's really interesting we went

0:03:00.319,0:03:02.480
to

0:03:00.640,0:03:04.879
we went to see some local attractions

0:03:02.480,0:03:07.760
with gc and those guys

0:03:04.879,0:03:08.800
and then i flew to iceland to go see the

0:03:07.760,0:03:10.800
auroras

0:03:08.800,0:03:13.120
but then all this copy stuff happened

0:03:10.800,0:03:14.159
and we had to rush back to argentina so

0:03:13.120,0:03:15.760
it's been

0:03:14.159,0:03:17.680
it's been interesting i've been here for

0:03:15.760,0:03:19.200
the last i don't know seven months maybe

0:03:17.680,0:03:20.720
i have no idea nobody counts time

0:03:19.200,0:03:23.920
anymore like time is

0:03:20.720,0:03:23.920
social construction these days

0:03:24.239,0:03:28.080
we were tweeting about uh india about

0:03:27.120,0:03:30.319
like a

0:03:28.080,0:03:31.599
meditation retreat or a yoga retreat or

0:03:30.319,0:03:32.799
something like that and you were telling

0:03:31.599,0:03:34.959
me about

0:03:32.799,0:03:35.920
is that did you just do that at this

0:03:34.959,0:03:38.560
time when you were it

0:03:35.920,0:03:39.280
no that was from another oh i don't know

0:03:38.560,0:03:41.280
maybe three

0:03:39.280,0:03:42.400
four maybe five years ago we went to

0:03:41.280,0:03:46.080
rishikesh

0:03:42.400,0:03:47.920
right before magento india i did

0:03:46.080,0:03:50.080
which is like the largest i.t city in

0:03:47.920,0:03:51.920
india and then i went to mumbai

0:03:50.080,0:03:53.920
uh and then we went to rishikesh for

0:03:51.920,0:03:57.200
this yoga retreat us

0:03:53.920,0:03:58.959
that was incredible yeah yeah man it's

0:03:57.200,0:04:02.319
i i would totally recommend that to you

0:03:58.959,0:04:02.319
if you want to do it with your family

0:04:03.920,0:04:06.959
oh yeah yeah yeah yeah they write the

0:04:06.080,0:04:09.040
the white

0:04:06.959,0:04:10.720
that white something i think it's i

0:04:09.040,0:04:12.239
don't know the name of the disc but they

0:04:10.720,0:04:14.000
went to this retreat

0:04:12.239,0:04:15.280
in rishikesh and they wrote all this

0:04:14.000,0:04:17.040
stuff and that was

0:04:15.280,0:04:18.799
that was such an incredible experience

0:04:17.040,0:04:20.959
like not only the yoga

0:04:18.799,0:04:22.639
but they they make you cook your food

0:04:20.959,0:04:23.919
they make you stay inside and they teach

0:04:22.639,0:04:25.840
you how to breathe

0:04:23.919,0:04:27.600
and it's been it's been incredible i

0:04:25.840,0:04:29.199
would do that again anytime

0:04:27.600,0:04:31.199
i want to do something like that so much

0:04:29.199,0:04:33.440
i've done a little bit of yoga i went

0:04:31.199,0:04:35.120
for a few months i went like every day

0:04:33.440,0:04:37.199
and then i actually stopped because like

0:04:35.120,0:04:40.479
my wrists started to hurt

0:04:37.199,0:04:43.120
and then uh and my back too and so

0:04:40.479,0:04:43.919
uh so so i stopped but i've just been

0:04:43.120,0:04:46.240
stretching

0:04:43.919,0:04:47.759
more you know like i just when i'm at

0:04:46.240,0:04:50.080
the gym whatever like i just

0:04:47.759,0:04:51.440
stretch more which i think is and then

0:04:50.080,0:04:54.800
breathing i'm trying to do

0:04:51.440,0:04:56.800
a little more intentionally too um

0:04:54.800,0:04:58.560
but yeah i really want it so we were you

0:04:56.800,0:05:00.800
there for like a week or

0:04:58.560,0:05:03.360
no we went there for i don't know two or

0:05:00.800,0:05:03.919
three weeks i think it was 25 21 days or

0:05:03.360,0:05:06.080
something

0:05:03.919,0:05:07.840
i don't even remember anymore but it was

0:05:06.080,0:05:09.600
it was really interesting it

0:05:07.840,0:05:11.520
this place rishikesh is near the

0:05:09.600,0:05:14.960
himalayan mountain

0:05:11.520,0:05:15.600
like on the shore of the of the kangas

0:05:14.960,0:05:18.560
river

0:05:15.600,0:05:20.800
which is basically in india it's a

0:05:18.560,0:05:21.919
living being which is basically what oh

0:05:20.800,0:05:25.039
a deity

0:05:21.919,0:05:27.680
a deity yeah like all about that is

0:05:25.039,0:05:29.280
it's so interesting it's so nice like i

0:05:27.680,0:05:31.520
don't even know how to explain that but

0:05:29.280,0:05:32.560
when they explained us that the rear was

0:05:31.520,0:05:34.160
actually alive

0:05:32.560,0:05:35.600
and they were worshiping the river i was

0:05:34.160,0:05:38.639
like oh

0:05:35.600,0:05:41.039
aha mind blown yeah i can imagine

0:05:38.639,0:05:41.759
just not even having the words for that

0:05:41.039,0:05:44.160
uh

0:05:41.759,0:05:46.400
that experience it sounds like it would

0:05:44.160,0:05:49.039
just be it'd be pretty awesome

0:05:46.400,0:05:50.720
um and then and meet magento india how

0:05:49.039,0:05:52.000
was that it was good this last most

0:05:50.720,0:05:53.759
recent time india is

0:05:52.000,0:05:56.160
incredible every time i go there i

0:05:53.759,0:05:56.720
remember why i'm traveling like 40 hours

0:05:56.160,0:05:58.800
to reach

0:05:56.720,0:06:00.160
india from argentina it's so nice so

0:05:58.800,0:06:02.720
long travel man

0:06:00.160,0:06:05.280
that's a lot of travel to get there it's

0:06:02.720,0:06:06.080
14 hours to like from buenos aires to

0:06:05.280,0:06:09.120
rome and then

0:06:06.080,0:06:12.400
14 12 more hours from rome to daily

0:06:09.120,0:06:13.759
so it's 24 28 hours and without a

0:06:12.400,0:06:15.919
downtime so it's it's

0:06:13.759,0:06:17.440
a really long trip but it's always worth

0:06:15.919,0:06:18.720
it like the indian community is

0:06:17.440,0:06:20.800
incredibly good

0:06:18.720,0:06:22.000
they're it's really healthy everybody

0:06:20.800,0:06:23.680
knows everybody

0:06:22.000,0:06:25.600
and you get to speak with those guys who

0:06:23.680,0:06:27.120
are actually building the stuff we see

0:06:25.600,0:06:29.039
because a lot of us companies they

0:06:27.120,0:06:32.160
outsource the service over there

0:06:29.039,0:06:34.400
so it's it's great you get to understand

0:06:32.160,0:06:35.840
why the ecosystem is the way it is how

0:06:34.400,0:06:37.280
people work over there it's

0:06:35.840,0:06:39.039
it's really interesting and the event is

0:06:37.280,0:06:40.880
always great like any event

0:06:39.039,0:06:42.479
what gender is organizing these days so

0:06:40.880,0:06:43.759
it's it's a really interesting

0:06:42.479,0:06:45.039
experience if you have a chance you

0:06:43.759,0:06:48.319
should definitely go at least

0:06:45.039,0:06:48.880
yeah yeah i'm i'm so bad at traveling

0:06:48.319,0:06:52.080
man like

0:06:48.880,0:06:55.120
if i'm on a plane for like four hours

0:06:52.080,0:06:58.240
that's kind of tough like eight hours uh

0:06:55.120,0:07:00.479
like i'm almost ready to die like

0:06:58.240,0:07:02.000
12 like i don't is it easy for you to

0:07:00.479,0:07:03.759
travel are you just getting a plane do

0:07:02.000,0:07:06.000
you sleep do you just sleep on planes i

0:07:03.759,0:07:08.319
hate people that can sleep on a plane

0:07:06.000,0:07:09.120
i can sleep i can do stuff if i don't

0:07:08.319,0:07:11.280
have wi-fi

0:07:09.120,0:07:12.479
i kind of freak out because i don't like

0:07:11.280,0:07:16.240
being offline

0:07:12.479,0:07:18.319
but i don't know i used to be used to it

0:07:16.240,0:07:19.840
but it's i don't know it's not that easy

0:07:18.319,0:07:22.560
it's like i think

0:07:19.840,0:07:24.720
i kind of hate hotels and planes it's

0:07:22.560,0:07:26.240
not like i enjoy doing that

0:07:24.720,0:07:27.919
but it's it's a part of traveling you

0:07:26.240,0:07:28.400
know so it's it's something you have to

0:07:27.919,0:07:30.000
do

0:07:28.400,0:07:31.759
but no i would rather i don't know take

0:07:30.000,0:07:33.599
a train maybe if that

0:07:31.759,0:07:35.120
was a possibility or maybe stay in a

0:07:33.599,0:07:37.680
house instead of a hotel

0:07:35.120,0:07:39.280
but it's i don't know it's those are

0:07:37.680,0:07:39.919
some of the complaints i have but it's

0:07:39.280,0:07:41.199
like

0:07:39.919,0:07:42.800
i don't know it's it's kind of

0:07:41.199,0:07:44.720
privileged to be able to complain about

0:07:42.800,0:07:46.720
that so it's of course

0:07:44.720,0:07:48.479
of course yeah you do you you mentioned

0:07:46.720,0:07:49.680
you always like to be online do you do

0:07:48.479,0:07:52.160
you disconnect

0:07:49.680,0:07:53.120
do you try to have time to disconnect or

0:07:52.160,0:07:55.440
always

0:07:53.120,0:07:56.639
always reachable always always spread it

0:07:55.440,0:07:58.639
yeah okay

0:07:56.639,0:08:00.479
it's not i don't do that for my work

0:07:58.639,0:08:01.199
it's not like anybody can contact me

0:08:00.479,0:08:03.280
anytime

0:08:01.199,0:08:05.280
i one of the things i do when i work

0:08:03.280,0:08:07.440
remotely which is the last seven or

0:08:05.280,0:08:09.520
eight years is to define

0:08:07.440,0:08:10.879
the times i'm working people know i can

0:08:09.520,0:08:13.759
be reached during the

0:08:10.879,0:08:15.440
work day in detroit for example so they

0:08:13.759,0:08:15.840
know they can reach me from i don't know

0:08:15.440,0:08:18.560
eight

0:08:15.840,0:08:19.440
to six maybe eight to five and i'll be

0:08:18.560,0:08:21.280
available

0:08:19.440,0:08:23.520
but it's it's not like i'm always online

0:08:21.280,0:08:24.960
and i'm always on twitter or slack it's

0:08:23.520,0:08:27.680
i don't think that's healthy

0:08:24.960,0:08:29.759
but i do i'm i i think i might have an

0:08:27.680,0:08:31.840
addiction because i'm always in my phone

0:08:29.759,0:08:33.200
yes that's not great you don't think

0:08:31.840,0:08:34.719
it's healthy but you're always

0:08:33.200,0:08:36.640
you're always connected and you went to

0:08:34.719,0:08:39.519
a yoga retreat for 21 days

0:08:36.640,0:08:41.039
but you don't want to unplug it all you

0:08:39.519,0:08:42.800
got to unplug

0:08:41.039,0:08:44.000
i was that place they don't have a

0:08:42.800,0:08:45.839
really good internet connection in

0:08:44.000,0:08:47.279
rishikesh and every time the internet

0:08:45.839,0:08:49.440
was down i was like

0:08:47.279,0:08:51.519
maybe i can go to the front desk and be

0:08:49.440,0:08:53.120
like hey maybe i can fix your internet

0:08:51.519,0:08:55.600
but then i realized that was like a

0:08:53.120,0:08:57.360
terrible idea because everybody in india

0:08:55.600,0:08:59.680
no scientist stuff it's not like i'm the

0:08:57.360,0:09:02.720
only one who can fix their stuff so

0:08:59.680,0:09:06.160
uh yeah yeah what do you think about

0:09:02.720,0:09:08.560
uh the virtual conferences that

0:09:06.160,0:09:09.200
um are going on like you obviously go to

0:09:08.560,0:09:12.240
a million

0:09:09.200,0:09:15.519
conferences 45 to be exact

0:09:12.240,0:09:18.080
in the last five years um you know

0:09:15.519,0:09:18.959
the in-person aspect can't really be

0:09:18.080,0:09:21.839
replicated

0:09:18.959,0:09:23.360
of course but uh what do you think about

0:09:21.839,0:09:25.200
some of these digital conferences

0:09:23.360,0:09:27.360
any features that you think are are

0:09:25.200,0:09:29.680
helping to bring people together

0:09:27.360,0:09:31.120
any features that you like i thought the

0:09:29.680,0:09:34.080
networking feature was cool

0:09:31.120,0:09:35.440
at the adobe live conference but like

0:09:34.080,0:09:38.560
what do you think about all these

0:09:35.440,0:09:40.320
online conferences it's it's a really

0:09:38.560,0:09:42.080
interesting question and it's it's kind

0:09:40.320,0:09:44.240
of hard i'm going to divide this in two

0:09:42.080,0:09:44.720
aspects one is the business aspect i

0:09:44.240,0:09:46.720
don't think

0:09:44.720,0:09:48.959
this is great for business we used to

0:09:46.720,0:09:51.040
get a lot of leads from conferences

0:09:48.959,0:09:52.240
and that's no longer there like it's

0:09:51.040,0:09:54.160
really harder to

0:09:52.240,0:09:56.640
get some business out of these virtual

0:09:54.160,0:09:58.800
events but then the human connection is

0:09:56.640,0:10:00.800
it's still there you know a couple of

0:09:58.800,0:10:02.640
weeks ago we did this adobe event the

0:10:00.800,0:10:04.800
developer experience event

0:10:02.640,0:10:06.560
and we did this roundtable about remote

0:10:04.800,0:10:09.200
working and i actually met

0:10:06.560,0:10:10.240
laura which was here who was here like i

0:10:09.200,0:10:12.240
don't know a couple of

0:10:10.240,0:10:13.680
days or weeks ago and that was really

0:10:12.240,0:10:16.800
interesting because

0:10:13.680,0:10:19.200
that was like we socialize

0:10:16.800,0:10:20.240
whatever that means in this era so we

0:10:19.200,0:10:22.320
get to speak about

0:10:20.240,0:10:24.640
random stuff we get to i don't know do

0:10:22.320,0:10:26.320
the coffee machine talks that kind of

0:10:24.640,0:10:28.079
stuff so that's already there

0:10:26.320,0:10:30.000
that's still there sorry but this the

0:10:28.079,0:10:30.880
business aspect is i don't think it's

0:10:30.000,0:10:32.800
useful

0:10:30.880,0:10:34.480
for a lot of companies yeah we are

0:10:32.800,0:10:36.800
considering like

0:10:34.480,0:10:38.480
next sponsor a lot of events and it's

0:10:36.800,0:10:39.440
right it's been great because we get a

0:10:38.480,0:10:41.120
lot of leads

0:10:39.440,0:10:42.640
but with the virtual events it's not the

0:10:41.120,0:10:43.360
same and that's going to be problematic

0:10:42.640,0:10:45.200
because

0:10:43.360,0:10:47.440
most of these conferences are maintained

0:10:45.200,0:10:49.120
by sponsors and not only by tickets

0:10:47.440,0:10:50.480
so it's that's going to be problematic

0:10:49.120,0:10:53.600
at some point or

0:10:50.480,0:10:54.560
maybe this this world virtual stuff

0:10:53.600,0:10:56.160
changes and we

0:10:54.560,0:10:58.880
start getting business again but that's

0:10:56.160,0:11:00.240
not been the case so we we had to resort

0:10:58.880,0:11:01.120
to different stuff like doing more

0:11:00.240,0:11:03.040
webinars

0:11:01.120,0:11:04.320
trying to engage with partners more and

0:11:03.040,0:11:06.560
that kind of stuff

0:11:04.320,0:11:08.160
so yeah the business aspect is not great

0:11:06.560,0:11:10.320
but i think the social aspect is still

0:11:08.160,0:11:12.240
there and it's greatly appreciated

0:11:10.320,0:11:14.240
like i don't get to speak with anybody

0:11:12.240,0:11:15.920
while i'm here i don't think i don't get

0:11:14.240,0:11:17.680
to speak with you or brent or like the

0:11:15.920,0:11:19.120
regular people i see when i'm traveling

0:11:17.680,0:11:20.959
but then when we hang out in these

0:11:19.120,0:11:22.240
events it's like a perfect excuse to

0:11:20.959,0:11:23.760
turn on the camera

0:11:22.240,0:11:24.959
speak with them and be like hey man how

0:11:23.760,0:11:25.760
are you doing these days i like your

0:11:24.959,0:11:27.360
hair

0:11:25.760,0:11:29.120
and that spins to like a different

0:11:27.360,0:11:30.640
conversation so it's

0:11:29.120,0:11:32.320
yeah i like the social aspect but the

0:11:30.640,0:11:34.480
business aspect is not that great now

0:11:32.320,0:11:35.680
yeah i think yeah i saw some events that

0:11:34.480,0:11:38.480
have like a

0:11:35.680,0:11:39.360
like a digital sponsor booth and things

0:11:38.480,0:11:42.399
like that

0:11:39.360,0:11:43.600
and it's like okay i mean i think that

0:11:42.399,0:11:45.279
we have to

0:11:43.600,0:11:46.880
it's like everything with the internet

0:11:45.279,0:11:50.560
it's like at first

0:11:46.880,0:11:52.639
you kind of try to copy and paste the

0:11:50.560,0:11:54.160
the other thing to the internet like do

0:11:52.639,0:11:55.839
it the same exact way

0:11:54.160,0:11:57.920
and then you realize you have to do

0:11:55.839,0:12:00.240
things in a little bit more

0:11:57.920,0:12:02.480
native way to the internet ultimately

0:12:00.240,0:12:03.360
like absolutely i completely agree yeah

0:12:02.480,0:12:04.800
it's not like it's

0:12:03.360,0:12:06.639
the experience is not the same and we

0:12:04.800,0:12:08.399
try to replicate this like

0:12:06.639,0:12:10.240
we all know how physical events are and

0:12:08.399,0:12:11.519
we try to replicate this online

0:12:10.240,0:12:13.279
and that's never gonna work it's not

0:12:11.519,0:12:16.560
like we are wearing i don't know

0:12:13.279,0:12:17.680
beer or air so it's not like it's not

0:12:16.560,0:12:19.680
the same and it's never gonna be the

0:12:17.680,0:12:22.560
same so we need to get used to that

0:12:19.680,0:12:23.519
and you know start to start to do stuff

0:12:22.560,0:12:25.920
differently maybe

0:12:23.519,0:12:27.680
i don't know how i have no idea but i

0:12:25.920,0:12:29.360
think trying to replicate

0:12:27.680,0:12:30.959
a physical experience on the internet

0:12:29.360,0:12:32.959
it's never gonna work yeah

0:12:30.959,0:12:34.160
i think there are i think everybody's

0:12:32.959,0:12:36.160
trying to

0:12:34.160,0:12:38.079
figure it out and and i mean the whole

0:12:36.160,0:12:41.360
world is sort of trying to solve this

0:12:38.079,0:12:43.360
problem so uh hopefully

0:12:41.360,0:12:44.959
there will be you know some some good

0:12:43.360,0:12:46.480
solutions coming but

0:12:44.959,0:12:49.440
i don't think we've really figured it

0:12:46.480,0:12:50.240
out um on the uh you mentioned the dev

0:12:49.440,0:12:53.680
exchange

0:12:50.240,0:12:56.720
that you did on remote work um at the

0:12:53.680,0:12:59.279
at the live adobe live uh what kind of

0:12:56.720,0:12:59.760
topics came up when it comes to remote

0:12:59.279,0:13:01.519
work

0:12:59.760,0:13:02.800
and what type of stuff did you guys talk

0:13:01.519,0:13:05.040
about

0:13:02.800,0:13:06.880
well everybody's a remote worker now

0:13:05.040,0:13:09.360
it's like either you like it or not

0:13:06.880,0:13:12.240
everybody's a remote worker so we a lot

0:13:09.360,0:13:14.800
of people don't really know how to

0:13:12.240,0:13:16.079
separate work and their regular life

0:13:14.800,0:13:18.160
people ask about

0:13:16.079,0:13:20.320
like how do you manage your time how do

0:13:18.160,0:13:23.360
you manage your schedule how do you tell

0:13:20.320,0:13:24.639
that's my next question yeah like

0:13:23.360,0:13:25.839
how do you tell people no i'm not

0:13:24.639,0:13:27.440
available if you are seeing the

0:13:25.839,0:13:28.079
notification and they know you're at

0:13:27.440,0:13:29.920
home

0:13:28.079,0:13:32.240
so setting boundaries is really

0:13:29.920,0:13:33.920
important and it's not like

0:13:32.240,0:13:35.760
a lot of people is aware of that so

0:13:33.920,0:13:38.160
everybody tries to read online all day

0:13:35.760,0:13:40.079
long and when they're they we say

0:13:38.160,0:13:41.360
their direct message they try to answer

0:13:40.079,0:13:42.399
in less than a minute and that's not

0:13:41.360,0:13:44.000
healthy you know

0:13:42.399,0:13:46.240
if you have a schedule if you have a

0:13:44.000,0:13:46.720
work time you should respect that

0:13:46.240,0:13:48.320
because

0:13:46.720,0:13:49.839
at the end of the day if you don't sleep

0:13:48.320,0:13:51.279
well or if you don't rest

0:13:49.839,0:13:53.519
you're going to be burned down at some

0:13:51.279,0:13:56.800
point or another so everybody wants that

0:13:53.519,0:13:58.480
you know so it's again this this world

0:13:56.800,0:14:01.120
experience is not like their regular

0:13:58.480,0:14:04.079
remote working is more like a necessity

0:14:01.120,0:14:06.079
these days yeah so it's it's not like

0:14:04.079,0:14:07.199
you started working remotely because you

0:14:06.079,0:14:08.800
decided that

0:14:07.199,0:14:10.560
everybody has to start because there was

0:14:08.800,0:14:11.279
a pandemic and people was working from

0:14:10.560,0:14:13.680
home

0:14:11.279,0:14:15.440
so getting used to that is not the same

0:14:13.680,0:14:16.480
as getting used to being like a regular

0:14:15.440,0:14:18.079
remote worker

0:14:16.480,0:14:20.000
it's not the same like the situation is

0:14:18.079,0:14:21.680
not the same the context is different

0:14:20.000,0:14:23.360
everything's different but the remote

0:14:21.680,0:14:25.120
part because you have to keep working at

0:14:23.360,0:14:27.360
the end of the day

0:14:25.120,0:14:28.240
what do you do what do you tell people

0:14:27.360,0:14:31.199
on your team

0:14:28.240,0:14:31.600
at nexus and things like that uh that

0:14:31.199,0:14:34.079
are

0:14:31.600,0:14:35.440
struggling with it or how can you tell

0:14:34.079,0:14:37.680
if somebody is struggling

0:14:35.440,0:14:39.120
with it like it's a it's a hard thing to

0:14:37.680,0:14:40.480
do because you want your team members to

0:14:39.120,0:14:42.959
be responsive

0:14:40.480,0:14:43.519
so it's not like if they respond fast

0:14:42.959,0:14:45.839
you say

0:14:43.519,0:14:46.959
hey you shouldn't have responded so fast

0:14:45.839,0:14:49.120
they're going to get like positive

0:14:46.959,0:14:52.160
feedback for responding fast so

0:14:49.120,0:14:53.519
how do you be proactive about getting

0:14:52.160,0:14:55.199
encouraging your team members to take

0:14:53.519,0:14:56.800
the breaks and

0:14:55.199,0:14:59.360
things like that that's kind of hard

0:14:56.800,0:15:02.160
like i have a lot of people that are not

0:14:59.360,0:15:03.199
used to be working remotely like most of

0:15:02.160,0:15:05.760
our support team

0:15:03.199,0:15:07.040
they were in-house like at the office at

0:15:05.760,0:15:09.600
the d trade office

0:15:07.040,0:15:11.199
and everybody's working from home now so

0:15:09.600,0:15:13.120
sometimes you see people offline and you

0:15:11.199,0:15:15.199
leave a message and you see them

0:15:13.120,0:15:16.800
connecting and trying to answer and i'm

0:15:15.199,0:15:18.240
like no you don't need to answer now

0:15:16.800,0:15:19.760
this was a question for like maybe

0:15:18.240,0:15:21.440
tomorrow during your work time

0:15:19.760,0:15:23.680
the same goes to like working on

0:15:21.440,0:15:26.000
weekends it's great if you want to do it

0:15:23.680,0:15:27.440
but you don't have to ask the rest of

0:15:26.000,0:15:30.160
your team to do that too

0:15:27.440,0:15:31.680
so if i have to send an email i may i i

0:15:30.160,0:15:33.279
might be able to schedule that for

0:15:31.680,0:15:35.680
monday or maybe

0:15:33.279,0:15:37.199
send that on sunday if i need to but

0:15:35.680,0:15:39.440
everybody needs to be aware

0:15:37.199,0:15:41.360
i'm not i'm not actually expecting an

0:15:39.440,0:15:43.920
answer like an immediate answer

0:15:41.360,0:15:45.519
yes that part's really hard and right

0:15:43.920,0:15:48.000
after nexus was acquired

0:15:45.519,0:15:49.360
we we went from like i don't know 150

0:15:48.000,0:15:52.560
200 employees

0:15:49.360,0:15:54.800
to like 800 employees so the cool to us

0:15:52.560,0:15:56.480
that was a cultural shock so we are we

0:15:54.800,0:15:58.880
are still accommodating that part we are

0:15:56.480,0:16:02.000
still trying to make everybody aware

0:15:58.880,0:16:04.639
of this new culture but it's it's been

0:16:02.000,0:16:07.120
it's uh it hasn't been that simple but i

0:16:04.639,0:16:09.279
think everybody is aware of that now and

0:16:07.120,0:16:11.279
slowly people is getting used to like

0:16:09.279,0:16:12.240
work from home and separating like the

0:16:11.279,0:16:14.240
computer

0:16:12.240,0:16:16.000
and the rest of their lives you know

0:16:14.240,0:16:16.880
it's it's not easy but i think we'll get

0:16:16.000,0:16:19.519
there eventually

0:16:16.880,0:16:21.120
yeah yeah do you um for scheduling

0:16:19.519,0:16:24.240
emails do you have like a

0:16:21.120,0:16:24.959
tool that you use to schedule emails or

0:16:24.240,0:16:28.800
do you just

0:16:24.959,0:16:31.519
uh try to remember to send it later

0:16:28.800,0:16:33.040
now we have we use google suite and i

0:16:31.519,0:16:34.079
use that feature

0:16:33.040,0:16:36.000
all right yeah because they have a

0:16:34.079,0:16:36.639
native they have that yeah i remember i

0:16:36.000,0:16:38.399
used to use

0:16:36.639,0:16:40.560
so many different plugins for google

0:16:38.399,0:16:41.839
like for gmail like boomerang and all

0:16:40.560,0:16:43.519
these different things and

0:16:41.839,0:16:45.279
they finally added all that stuff native

0:16:43.519,0:16:46.880
but now i don't use i haven't used those

0:16:45.279,0:16:48.160
features anymore ever since they added

0:16:46.880,0:16:49.839
them native even though like

0:16:48.160,0:16:51.519
although i use the snooze i use the the

0:16:49.839,0:16:53.600
snooze is a good one

0:16:51.519,0:16:56.000
uh but it is pretty good and it works

0:16:53.600,0:16:57.839
and it shows

0:16:56.000,0:16:59.440
you are not expecting an answer an

0:16:57.839,0:17:01.120
immediate answer or you're not working

0:16:59.440,0:17:02.639
on the weekend because sometimes you

0:17:01.120,0:17:03.279
want to work or sometimes you need to

0:17:02.639,0:17:05.760
work

0:17:03.279,0:17:07.280
but i don't want to put that burden on

0:17:05.760,0:17:09.120
my co-workers you know

0:17:07.280,0:17:10.720
if i have to work that's my problem i

0:17:09.120,0:17:12.640
don't want everybody to feel

0:17:10.720,0:17:14.480
i don't know afraid or sad because they

0:17:12.640,0:17:14.880
aren't doing it that's not the way i

0:17:14.480,0:17:17.360
work

0:17:14.880,0:17:18.000
so i try to be polite as much as i can

0:17:17.360,0:17:21.520
and i try

0:17:18.000,0:17:23.360
to let them know or make them understand

0:17:21.520,0:17:24.799
it's not mandatory to do it you know if

0:17:23.360,0:17:26.720
you have to reach a deadline

0:17:24.799,0:17:28.400
maybe that's fine but it doesn't have to

0:17:26.720,0:17:29.120
be like that every day for the rest of

0:17:28.400,0:17:31.919
your life you know

0:17:29.120,0:17:34.480
yeah yeah yeah yeah so when it comes to

0:17:31.919,0:17:36.480
schedules i'm kind of a schedule nerd

0:17:34.480,0:17:37.919
i like to know about people's schedules

0:17:36.480,0:17:40.240
or you know

0:17:37.919,0:17:41.520
what habits you have throughout the day

0:17:40.240,0:17:43.440
i know some people are

0:17:41.520,0:17:45.520
no schedule at all i don't know how you

0:17:43.440,0:17:48.000
are but i'm curious

0:17:45.520,0:17:49.520
what your schedule looks like you try to

0:17:48.000,0:17:51.200
barbecue every day

0:17:49.520,0:17:54.160
what do you do how do you mix it up so

0:17:51.200,0:17:56.799
you can kind of stay sane

0:17:54.160,0:17:58.640
that's like sting thing is my number one

0:17:56.799,0:18:03.039
goal you spend a half hour brushing your

0:17:58.640,0:18:03.039
hair every day make sure it looks good

0:18:03.200,0:18:07.280
no but i train almost every day like

0:18:05.360,0:18:08.400
during the early morning i woke up and

0:18:07.280,0:18:11.200
go for a run

0:18:08.400,0:18:12.559
sometimes i train in a in a gym i met

0:18:11.200,0:18:15.760
here in my house

0:18:12.559,0:18:17.679
but then after i was like

0:18:15.760,0:18:19.760
i used to be the lead developer like the

0:18:17.679,0:18:20.880
magento market attack nexus but then

0:18:19.760,0:18:23.440
when i was moved to

0:18:20.880,0:18:26.160
this product management role my life is

0:18:23.440,0:18:27.679
a constant and lesson called

0:18:26.160,0:18:29.520
at first i didn't like that because

0:18:27.679,0:18:31.360
nobody's used to be like in a constant

0:18:29.520,0:18:32.880
zoom call but now i'm used to it so now

0:18:31.360,0:18:34.799
i have this really

0:18:32.880,0:18:36.240
organized calendar where people can see

0:18:34.799,0:18:38.880
when i'm busy

0:18:36.240,0:18:40.240
sometimes i actually book myself to get

0:18:38.880,0:18:42.240
some free time you know

0:18:40.240,0:18:43.520
like i didn't know that was a thing but

0:18:42.240,0:18:45.039
people they will

0:18:43.520,0:18:47.120
like book their own time in their

0:18:45.039,0:18:47.840
calendar to appear busy just to be able

0:18:47.120,0:18:49.760
to like

0:18:47.840,0:18:51.200
get some work done i thought that was

0:18:49.760,0:18:53.039
crazy but then i realized that was

0:18:51.200,0:18:56.080
really common so it's like

0:18:53.039,0:18:59.520
hey i'll do it yeah

0:18:56.080,0:19:02.080
nice and yeah yeah so

0:18:59.520,0:19:03.440
so jen uh you have a home gym and what

0:19:02.080,0:19:04.480
do you lift weights or what do you what

0:19:03.440,0:19:06.880
do you do

0:19:04.480,0:19:08.160
yeah i i used to be a rugby player when

0:19:06.880,0:19:10.559
i was a kid

0:19:08.160,0:19:12.480
maybe 15 years ago yeah i used to play

0:19:10.559,0:19:15.360
rugby i went to like the

0:19:12.480,0:19:16.559
regional i don't know local team or

0:19:15.360,0:19:18.240
something and then i used to play

0:19:16.559,0:19:18.799
handball too i went to this german

0:19:18.240,0:19:22.320
school

0:19:18.799,0:19:24.480
and i went to like the city under 20

0:19:22.320,0:19:25.520
i don't know regional team too i really

0:19:24.480,0:19:27.280
like sports

0:19:25.520,0:19:28.720
and i really believe you need to train

0:19:27.280,0:19:29.600
because the computer is going to kill

0:19:28.720,0:19:32.640
you if you don't

0:19:29.600,0:19:34.559
uh-huh like it's i i strongly believe

0:19:32.640,0:19:35.600
that like people ask me how do you work

0:19:34.559,0:19:38.720
so much and i'm like

0:19:35.600,0:19:40.640
i sleep well i eat well and i train

0:19:38.720,0:19:42.559
that's really important because if you

0:19:40.640,0:19:44.000
are not like if you are not healthy the

0:19:42.559,0:19:44.880
computer is going to screw you

0:19:44.000,0:19:46.960
like that's going to be really

0:19:44.880,0:19:49.360
problematic and i don't want to be like

0:19:46.960,0:19:50.799
35 and have a back pain or something

0:19:49.360,0:19:52.559
every day that's going to be terrible

0:19:50.799,0:19:54.480
for me yeah yeah yeah

0:19:52.559,0:19:57.440
what do you eat you mentioned you eat

0:19:54.480,0:19:59.520
well i eat almost everything like

0:19:57.440,0:20:01.440
i will i can eat pasta i can cook

0:19:59.520,0:20:02.080
barbecue i really like cooking too like

0:20:01.440,0:20:05.120
we have a

0:20:02.080,0:20:07.520
nice kitchen everything is made here

0:20:05.120,0:20:08.720
like and it's so cheap in comparison to

0:20:07.520,0:20:10.720
our countries and i'm like

0:20:08.720,0:20:13.039
okay what i'm going to eat today meat

0:20:10.720,0:20:15.200
that's it i don't need anything else

0:20:13.039,0:20:17.440
yeah what are you doing you keep carbs

0:20:15.200,0:20:20.240
do you keep carbs low

0:20:17.440,0:20:21.840
no not really i i haven't done a diet in

0:20:20.240,0:20:24.000
quite some time

0:20:21.840,0:20:26.480
i eat like [ __ ] when i travel and that's

0:20:24.000,0:20:28.559
terrible because i sometimes eat burgers

0:20:26.480,0:20:29.760
it's so hard to eat well when you travel

0:20:28.559,0:20:30.799
it's impossible i don't know what it is

0:20:29.760,0:20:32.720
it's impossible

0:20:30.799,0:20:34.720
like it's impossible and then sometimes

0:20:32.720,0:20:36.480
i go to the u.s and i'm like okay this

0:20:34.720,0:20:38.159
is a freestyle coke machine in the

0:20:36.480,0:20:39.679
office and i'm like

0:20:38.159,0:20:42.000
what am i supposed to do i'm gonna be

0:20:39.679,0:20:44.320
drinking coke all day every day

0:20:42.000,0:20:46.480
yeah i don't care but it's like one or

0:20:44.320,0:20:48.320
two weeks that completely destroys me

0:20:46.480,0:20:50.240
and then i go out with my friends like

0:20:48.320,0:20:52.159
every day to eat some pizza

0:20:50.240,0:20:53.280
and drink some beer and i'm like this is

0:20:52.159,0:20:54.880
so unhealthy

0:20:53.280,0:20:56.960
and i don't care about it this is gonna

0:20:54.880,0:21:00.320
hurt when i'm coming back home

0:20:56.960,0:21:02.000
yeah it's so hard it's like i try to i

0:21:00.320,0:21:02.480
try to keep unhealthy stuff out of the

0:21:02.000,0:21:04.960
house

0:21:02.480,0:21:07.520
but like our kids there's certain things

0:21:04.960,0:21:09.120
our kids have to eat like for example

0:21:07.520,0:21:10.799
they they like string cheese like

0:21:09.120,0:21:12.799
whenever you have kids you just

0:21:10.799,0:21:14.080
you always have little string cheese for

0:21:12.799,0:21:15.919
them to snack on

0:21:14.080,0:21:17.919
and we stopped getting them for a while

0:21:15.919,0:21:20.000
and then my wife got him again

0:21:17.919,0:21:22.240
so now whenever i see him boom boom boom

0:21:20.000,0:21:22.240
boom boom

0:21:24.720,0:21:29.360
i try that too like we have

0:21:27.760,0:21:31.440
we have alfajores here which is

0:21:29.360,0:21:34.240
basically a really small cake

0:21:31.440,0:21:35.039
which is wrapped in an individual size

0:21:34.240,0:21:37.520
serving

0:21:35.039,0:21:38.960
which is great but it's so unhealthy and

0:21:37.520,0:21:41.039
i i love that stuff

0:21:38.960,0:21:42.799
but then i simply stopped buying that

0:21:41.039,0:21:43.760
you know because i'm an adult i can buy

0:21:42.799,0:21:46.000
anything i want

0:21:43.760,0:21:47.520
but then i'm also an adult and i have to

0:21:46.000,0:21:50.000
deal with the consequences so

0:21:47.520,0:21:51.440
i try to stop doing that but it hasn't

0:21:50.000,0:21:53.200
been that easy it's been

0:21:51.440,0:21:55.679
it's been hard because i don't control

0:21:53.200,0:21:57.520
myself that good so when i'm busy or

0:21:55.679,0:21:59.840
when i'm like i don't know stress

0:21:57.520,0:22:01.200
i'll go eat something and it's gonna be

0:21:59.840,0:22:03.200
extremely unhealthy

0:22:01.200,0:22:04.799
but it's it's the way it is you have to

0:22:03.200,0:22:06.960
deal with that stuff and you have to

0:22:04.799,0:22:10.960
cope with this existence so it's

0:22:06.960,0:22:14.159
what whenever i see uh damien colota's

0:22:10.960,0:22:18.000
pictures of the barbecue yeah man he's

0:22:14.159,0:22:18.000
he's as soon as an artist

0:22:18.559,0:22:21.600
there are two different type of people

0:22:20.159,0:22:25.360
here people

0:22:21.600,0:22:27.679
so people will start

0:22:25.360,0:22:29.600
doing the barbecues with like child but

0:22:27.679,0:22:31.600
damian he will do that with like

0:22:29.600,0:22:33.440
hard wood and that's a completely

0:22:31.600,0:22:36.000
different story he's basically a chef

0:22:33.440,0:22:37.440
if you ask me like i know how he cooks

0:22:36.000,0:22:39.360
i've seen him

0:22:37.440,0:22:40.799
but it's like he's at a different level

0:22:39.360,0:22:44.159
i'm here but he's like

0:22:40.799,0:22:48.240
way over here like that guy's incredible

0:22:44.159,0:22:50.240
i'm here you're here he's way up here

0:22:48.240,0:22:52.640
look at his way up on the chain like

0:22:50.240,0:22:56.400
he's so big

0:22:52.640,0:22:58.640
so uh so magento one safe harbor

0:22:56.400,0:22:59.600
i'm very curious to talk about this

0:22:58.640,0:23:02.960
nexus has

0:22:59.600,0:23:06.799
a magenta one safe harbor harbor program

0:23:02.960,0:23:08.640
uh so how does it work pci compliance

0:23:06.799,0:23:10.559
we've seen a lot of discussions about

0:23:08.640,0:23:13.039
pci compliance

0:23:10.559,0:23:13.840
um you guys have merchants that are live

0:23:13.039,0:23:17.360
on it

0:23:13.840,0:23:19.840
how's how's all that working out so

0:23:17.360,0:23:20.720
here's the thing i don't like magento

0:23:19.840,0:23:23.120
one at all

0:23:20.720,0:23:24.640
like i made my like at least half my

0:23:23.120,0:23:26.880
career on top of

0:23:24.640,0:23:28.640
yeah it's like i don't like using old

0:23:26.880,0:23:29.520
software but then on the other hand i

0:23:28.640,0:23:32.799
understand people

0:23:29.520,0:23:34.000
still using that so it's it's a really

0:23:32.799,0:23:35.679
hard thing to balance

0:23:34.000,0:23:37.039
it's not like it's going to be up to me

0:23:35.679,0:23:38.799
to be like okay we are not going to

0:23:37.039,0:23:39.679
support this any longer because a really

0:23:38.799,0:23:42.000
big chunk

0:23:39.679,0:23:43.919
of nexus customers are still a magento

0:23:42.000,0:23:46.799
one but then on the other hand

0:23:43.919,0:23:48.080
i don't think using an end-of-life

0:23:46.799,0:23:50.640
software is wise

0:23:48.080,0:23:52.320
and ex and it's extremely unhealthy

0:23:50.640,0:23:53.360
because people is processing credit card

0:23:52.320,0:23:55.760
payments on that

0:23:53.360,0:23:57.120
so it's not like there's no

0:23:55.760,0:23:59.120
transactional

0:23:57.120,0:24:00.480
there's no transactions going on or that

0:23:59.120,0:24:03.440
kind of stuff it's it's actually

0:24:00.480,0:24:04.000
risky you know so it's i don't know the

0:24:03.440,0:24:05.760
the product

0:24:04.000,0:24:07.360
we created was basically to give

0:24:05.760,0:24:08.960
merchants some more time

0:24:07.360,0:24:11.039
those merchants were not yet ready to

0:24:08.960,0:24:12.559
migrate and we tried to make some

0:24:11.039,0:24:14.320
security features over there like the

0:24:12.559,0:24:15.600
malware scan the web application

0:24:14.320,0:24:18.159
firewall

0:24:15.600,0:24:19.760
like the station size so people don't

0:24:18.159,0:24:20.400
don't test in production and then they

0:24:19.760,0:24:22.480
backport

0:24:20.400,0:24:24.480
their back product patches and it's been

0:24:22.480,0:24:27.360
great it's been pretty easy

0:24:24.480,0:24:27.760
i've been working with openmesh quite a

0:24:27.360,0:24:29.440
lot

0:24:27.760,0:24:32.240
we've been doing our own and security

0:24:29.440,0:24:34.240
analysis we still have probably the

0:24:32.240,0:24:35.840
largest magento customer base out there

0:24:34.240,0:24:37.919
so it's not like we don't get to see

0:24:35.840,0:24:41.039
what's going on in the space

0:24:37.919,0:24:42.799
but i would it's it's i would rather see

0:24:41.039,0:24:44.880
more people working towards a

0:24:42.799,0:24:46.559
re-platforming or a migration

0:24:44.880,0:24:47.919
but a lot of the people like a lot of

0:24:46.559,0:24:49.360
the customers we see

0:24:47.919,0:24:51.600
they aren't going to migrate before the

0:24:49.360,0:24:52.240
year ends or maybe even before the next

0:24:51.600,0:24:54.240
year

0:24:52.240,0:24:55.279
and i don't like that to be honest it's

0:24:54.240,0:24:57.760
it's not great

0:24:55.279,0:24:59.279
like i don't want to be associated with

0:24:57.760,0:25:00.880
an old piece of software i don't want to

0:24:59.279,0:25:02.240
work with legacy software

0:25:00.880,0:25:03.679
but on the other hand you need to take

0:25:02.240,0:25:04.799
into consideration these people are

0:25:03.679,0:25:06.080
trying to make an end

0:25:04.799,0:25:07.679
they're selling online they are not

0:25:06.080,0:25:08.960
multimedia there are companies who care

0:25:07.679,0:25:10.559
about the technology

0:25:08.960,0:25:12.240
they're just trying to sell something

0:25:10.559,0:25:15.360
online and maybe they have i don't know

0:25:12.240,0:25:17.520
100 skus and they don't have the money

0:25:15.360,0:25:19.440
to do a complete migration to magento 2.

0:25:17.520,0:25:21.039
they are not interested in shopify so

0:25:19.440,0:25:23.039
it's

0:25:21.039,0:25:24.799
it's a really it's a really complex

0:25:23.039,0:25:26.400
complicated thing to balance you know

0:25:24.799,0:25:27.520
yeah and people come to me and ask me

0:25:26.400,0:25:29.919
about pci

0:25:27.520,0:25:31.600
and i'm not qsa it's not like i can tell

0:25:29.919,0:25:33.760
you yes you can be compliant

0:25:31.600,0:25:35.919
if you do this and that nobody really

0:25:33.760,0:25:39.279
can say it exactly i mean nobody can say

0:25:35.919,0:25:42.400
for sure except for those uh analysts

0:25:39.279,0:25:44.640
and even then yeah we did so it it's

0:25:42.400,0:25:45.440
that's really complicated too like pci

0:25:44.640,0:25:46.799
is great

0:25:45.440,0:25:48.640
if you think about it because it's one

0:25:46.799,0:25:51.279
of the very few guidelines

0:25:48.640,0:25:52.640
that actually govern the online payments

0:25:51.279,0:25:53.279
and people is actually afraid of that

0:25:52.640,0:25:55.840
because

0:25:53.279,0:25:57.120
if you don't do that if you are if you

0:25:55.840,0:25:57.520
if you have a breach you're going to be

0:25:57.120,0:25:59.200
fine

0:25:57.520,0:26:01.200
and you're going to be fine like big

0:25:59.200,0:26:03.600
times defines rb

0:26:01.200,0:26:05.200
so i think that's great but then pci is

0:26:03.600,0:26:07.919
extremely outdated

0:26:05.200,0:26:09.120
meaning nobody consider open source when

0:26:07.919,0:26:11.039
they wrote pci

0:26:09.120,0:26:13.520
you know so there are a couple of things

0:26:11.039,0:26:15.840
that are not that clear like pci 6.2

0:26:13.520,0:26:17.600
says something like you need to prove

0:26:15.840,0:26:18.400
you're installing vendor supplied

0:26:17.600,0:26:20.799
patches

0:26:18.400,0:26:22.240
in a time frame in like 30 days and i'm

0:26:20.799,0:26:24.799
like okay what does

0:26:22.240,0:26:26.880
vendor mean and nobody can answer that

0:26:24.799,0:26:28.159
so it is magento the vendor is adobe

0:26:26.880,0:26:30.159
vendor if this is an open source

0:26:28.159,0:26:30.720
software who is the vendor what happens

0:26:30.159,0:26:32.640
to

0:26:30.720,0:26:34.159
home baked software there are a lot of

0:26:32.640,0:26:34.880
questions that are that don't have an

0:26:34.159,0:26:37.039
answer

0:26:34.880,0:26:38.480
and it's that's because this this

0:26:37.039,0:26:39.760
guideline this

0:26:38.480,0:26:41.760
i don't know why you want to call it

0:26:39.760,0:26:43.600
it's kind of old you know and there are

0:26:41.760,0:26:45.279
new frameworks that are taking this into

0:26:43.600,0:26:48.159
consideration but again

0:26:45.279,0:26:49.919
those are not the ones in place so it's

0:26:48.159,0:26:52.080
it's a really interesting discussion and

0:26:49.919,0:26:55.360
we got a partnership with stripe

0:26:52.080,0:26:57.600
so anybody using nexus and wanting to

0:26:55.360,0:26:58.400
still pass their pci assessments can use

0:26:57.600,0:27:00.240
stripe

0:26:58.400,0:27:02.400
and they will take our at the station of

0:27:00.240,0:27:04.480
compliance and our safe fiber

0:27:02.400,0:27:06.159
as a proof of i don't know pci

0:27:04.480,0:27:08.080
compliance they are still

0:27:06.159,0:27:09.679
they are still doing the assessments but

0:27:08.080,0:27:10.240
we did this partnership with strife and

0:27:09.679,0:27:12.159
it worked

0:27:10.240,0:27:13.520
a lot of people is using that but again

0:27:12.159,0:27:15.679
what's going to happen in one year

0:27:13.520,0:27:16.720
or two years are they gonna keep

0:27:15.679,0:27:19.120
supporting that

0:27:16.720,0:27:20.159
i don't know and i don't want those guys

0:27:19.120,0:27:22.399
to stay there

0:27:20.159,0:27:24.000
for two more years you know it's it's a

0:27:22.399,0:27:26.480
terrible idea

0:27:24.000,0:27:27.279
but again like if we continue down this

0:27:26.480,0:27:30.480
path and

0:27:27.279,0:27:32.000
the pandemic is still here i can't go in

0:27:30.480,0:27:33.840
there and tell this merchant hey

0:27:32.000,0:27:35.120
you need to go out and you need to

0:27:33.840,0:27:36.799
change your platform and you need to

0:27:35.120,0:27:38.640
spend i don't know 150k

0:27:36.799,0:27:40.480
building a new site that's never gonna

0:27:38.640,0:27:43.600
fly so it's

0:27:40.480,0:27:46.000
it's a really complex balance in there

0:27:43.600,0:27:47.520
and i'm still unsure how to how to

0:27:46.000,0:27:49.679
balance that to be honest

0:27:47.520,0:27:51.840
the product is great we have quite a few

0:27:49.679,0:27:53.760
customers we are probably the largest

0:27:51.840,0:27:55.600
magento one in the flight service out

0:27:53.760,0:27:57.360
there but i don't like that i really

0:27:55.600,0:28:00.720
don't like that it's

0:27:57.360,0:28:03.760
it's got to be a magento too yeah yeah

0:28:00.720,0:28:04.240
exactly yeah that's that that makes

0:28:03.760,0:28:06.159
sense

0:28:04.240,0:28:07.440
that makes sense so going fast forward

0:28:06.159,0:28:11.200
to more

0:28:07.440,0:28:13.679
uh modern software uh react-a-con

0:28:11.200,0:28:14.480
happened recently uh there are some

0:28:13.679,0:28:17.520
great talks

0:28:14.480,0:28:20.080
uh how did you like it overall i thought

0:28:17.520,0:28:21.440
the haiva theme by willem wigman looked

0:28:20.080,0:28:23.919
really interesting

0:28:21.440,0:28:25.679
and a lot of the other talks so what did

0:28:23.919,0:28:28.000
you what did you think

0:28:25.679,0:28:29.039
i'm gonna start by saying i love gc like

0:28:28.000,0:28:31.919
everything he's doing

0:28:29.039,0:28:33.760
i love it he's great and he's been like

0:28:31.919,0:28:34.720
advancing this business and this

0:28:33.760,0:28:36.960
ecosystem

0:28:34.720,0:28:38.399
a lot lately so he organized an

0:28:36.960,0:28:39.440
incredibly good event and i'm really

0:28:38.399,0:28:42.000
happy for him

0:28:39.440,0:28:43.600
and i really think he's by far one of

0:28:42.000,0:28:44.880
the most interesting personalities in

0:28:43.600,0:28:46.799
this ecosystem

0:28:44.880,0:28:49.279
and i actually want to see some of those

0:28:46.799,0:28:50.480
talks i saw hydra that was incredibly

0:28:49.279,0:28:52.799
good

0:28:50.480,0:28:54.399
i like i think i saw this on twitter

0:28:52.799,0:28:56.399
somebody was comparing that to like the

0:28:54.399,0:28:57.760
old magenta one front end because of how

0:28:56.399,0:29:00.320
fresh it felt

0:28:57.760,0:29:02.240
and that's probably true but it's i

0:29:00.320,0:29:02.960
don't know pwa on headless is a

0:29:02.240,0:29:04.799
completely

0:29:02.960,0:29:07.600
like a completely different subject and

0:29:04.799,0:29:10.640
i'm not a frontal engineer like

0:29:07.600,0:29:12.240
i'm not a product manager anymore

0:29:10.640,0:29:13.760
i didn't even realize that until i

0:29:12.240,0:29:15.440
looked at your linkedin today

0:29:13.760,0:29:17.039
that you were been a product manager for

0:29:15.440,0:29:20.080
a year now

0:29:17.039,0:29:20.480
and yeah yeah it's funny now it's really

0:29:20.080,0:29:22.720
fun

0:29:20.480,0:29:23.520
like i'm trying to bring pwa to the

0:29:22.720,0:29:25.520
masses

0:29:23.520,0:29:28.000
but the second you go into any of this

0:29:25.520,0:29:30.159
project documentation you'll be like

0:29:28.000,0:29:31.919
okay this is really hard like i need to

0:29:30.159,0:29:32.799
know a lot of stuff to be able to set

0:29:31.919,0:29:35.360
this up

0:29:32.799,0:29:36.320
like let's say dd let's say view

0:29:35.360,0:29:38.240
storefront

0:29:36.320,0:29:39.520
some of those tools they're incredibly

0:29:38.240,0:29:42.480
rich they work

0:29:39.520,0:29:43.840
extremely well but then you need to

0:29:42.480,0:29:45.520
really understand

0:29:43.840,0:29:47.440
how to configure that how to run that

0:29:45.520,0:29:49.360
and how to maintain that in production

0:29:47.440,0:29:51.039
and that's not that easy so what i've

0:29:49.360,0:29:51.840
been trying to do lately at next is

0:29:51.039,0:29:54.799
trying to support

0:29:51.840,0:29:56.320
as many pd implementations as i can and

0:29:54.799,0:29:58.320
that hasn't been that easy it's been

0:29:56.320,0:29:58.960
really proactive because pwa studio is

0:29:58.320,0:30:01.440
great

0:29:58.960,0:30:03.039
scandi pwa is great said commerce

0:30:01.440,0:30:04.480
release their own stuff

0:30:03.039,0:30:06.399
there are a couple of really interesting

0:30:04.480,0:30:08.320
projects but some of them

0:30:06.399,0:30:10.000
they are so javascript oriented that is

0:30:08.320,0:30:10.640
it's just crazy javascript the

0:30:10.000,0:30:14.000
javascript

0:30:10.640,0:30:16.720
ecosystem is wild like yeah

0:30:14.000,0:30:17.760
it's why i do like you have to you have

0:30:16.720,0:30:19.600
to understand like

0:30:17.760,0:30:21.520
a hundred different concepts you have to

0:30:19.600,0:30:23.039
run i don't know 10 different softwares

0:30:21.520,0:30:25.120
it's not like php where

0:30:23.039,0:30:26.640
you have to put your file in the php

0:30:25.120,0:30:28.559
server and that's pretty much it

0:30:26.640,0:30:31.039
you know maybe i'm used to that and

0:30:28.559,0:30:33.039
apache php and my sql is not that

0:30:31.039,0:30:34.640
it's not that simple but when i go in

0:30:33.039,0:30:36.960
there and i see these

0:30:34.640,0:30:38.880
applications require a middleware and

0:30:36.960,0:30:40.640
you have to keep that running with pm2

0:30:38.880,0:30:41.840
or maybe you have to expose a random

0:30:40.640,0:30:44.080
port to the internet

0:30:41.840,0:30:45.840
for their api middleware it's just it's

0:30:44.080,0:30:47.919
just so complicated

0:30:45.840,0:30:49.440
that i i don't even know where to start

0:30:47.919,0:30:50.399
and if i don't know where to start and

0:30:49.440,0:30:51.840
i'm like

0:30:50.399,0:30:53.440
i'm knowledgeable i know about this

0:30:51.840,0:30:55.440
stuff i know about some of this stuff i

0:30:53.440,0:30:57.039
can't even imagine what a merchant feels

0:30:55.440,0:30:58.960
you know and i've been trying to bring

0:30:57.039,0:31:00.960
these two masses but

0:30:58.960,0:31:02.480
to be honest the adaptation we are

0:31:00.960,0:31:04.480
seeing is not great

0:31:02.480,0:31:06.240
like everybody's talking about this but

0:31:04.480,0:31:07.120
i don't think everybody's using this to

0:31:06.240,0:31:09.679
be honest yeah

0:31:07.120,0:31:11.440
yeah i'd like you know i i don't i

0:31:09.679,0:31:12.480
haven't done magento stuff myself but i

0:31:11.440,0:31:16.000
use like uh

0:31:12.480,0:31:16.399
laravel with with vue and the way that

0:31:16.000,0:31:19.679
it's

0:31:16.399,0:31:20.559
baked in is pretty easy like it mostly

0:31:19.679,0:31:22.640
just works

0:31:20.559,0:31:25.760
if they have a wrapper around webpack

0:31:22.640,0:31:28.880
which compiles stuff using npm

0:31:25.760,0:31:31.519
and it mostly just works and it's uh

0:31:28.880,0:31:32.720
pretty easy i think that's the ideal

0:31:31.519,0:31:35.919
case

0:31:32.720,0:31:39.039
where it it's it's easy to set up

0:31:35.919,0:31:41.039
they've created abstractions that um

0:31:39.039,0:31:43.200
are easy to use you don't have to get

0:31:41.039,0:31:45.600
under the hood if you don't want to

0:31:43.200,0:31:47.600
but i don't know seems like that's not

0:31:45.600,0:31:48.799
the case a lot of times

0:31:47.600,0:31:50.960
with a different framework i don't know

0:31:48.799,0:31:52.799
like here's the thing

0:31:50.960,0:31:55.279
next is a back-end company we've been

0:31:52.799,0:31:57.360
doing php we've been doing lamp stack

0:31:55.279,0:31:59.760
for i don't know two decades now

0:31:57.360,0:32:01.679
and when you go into the javascript

0:31:59.760,0:32:03.440
ecosystem

0:32:01.679,0:32:05.279
a lot of these applications they require

0:32:03.440,0:32:07.519
a middleware and keeping that

0:32:05.279,0:32:09.120
running it's not that simple like for

0:32:07.519,0:32:11.200
example view storefront they have their

0:32:09.120,0:32:13.200
own connector which is great because

0:32:11.200,0:32:15.120
the graphql and the rest of the apis in

0:32:13.200,0:32:16.080
magento they are not as extensive as

0:32:15.120,0:32:17.440
they should

0:32:16.080,0:32:18.880
but then they create their own

0:32:17.440,0:32:19.440
middleware and you have to keep that

0:32:18.880,0:32:20.799
running

0:32:19.440,0:32:22.640
and that's not really simple if you

0:32:20.799,0:32:23.679
think about that from like a lamp

0:32:22.640,0:32:24.880
perspective

0:32:23.679,0:32:26.960
and that's one of the things we are

0:32:24.880,0:32:29.519
trying to improve like actually running

0:32:26.960,0:32:32.080
those processes is actually

0:32:29.519,0:32:33.760
making those middlewares run fast and be

0:32:32.080,0:32:36.159
stable it's not that easy

0:32:33.760,0:32:38.080
but then you go to pwa studio and they

0:32:36.159,0:32:39.600
consume the information directly from

0:32:38.080,0:32:41.440
the graphql endpoint

0:32:39.600,0:32:43.039
and that's great because you don't need

0:32:41.440,0:32:45.760
extra software you can just

0:32:43.039,0:32:46.880
spin magento instance the slash graphql

0:32:45.760,0:32:49.519
is already there

0:32:46.880,0:32:50.240
and then you compile your pwa studio

0:32:49.519,0:32:52.880
project like

0:32:50.240,0:32:53.360
vinia or xenia and you're like this

0:32:52.880,0:32:55.760
works

0:32:53.360,0:32:57.600
that's it and it's great so that's one

0:32:55.760,0:32:59.679
of the limitations we have these days

0:32:57.600,0:33:01.760
if your pwa implementation requires a

0:32:59.679,0:33:02.559
middleware in the form of a javascript

0:33:01.760,0:33:04.640
server

0:33:02.559,0:33:06.480
or in the form of a server exposed to

0:33:04.640,0:33:07.120
the internet that's going to be a no-go

0:33:06.480,0:33:08.960
for now

0:33:07.120,0:33:10.240
because i'm trying to well i'm actually

0:33:08.960,0:33:12.159
working on some new

0:33:10.240,0:33:13.840
javascript containers but it's it's

0:33:12.159,0:33:14.720
gonna be a while until we are able to

0:33:13.840,0:33:16.159
support that

0:33:14.720,0:33:18.080
and i think this is true for a lot of

0:33:16.159,0:33:19.679
companies out there like if you go to

0:33:18.080,0:33:22.080
magento commerce cloud

0:33:19.679,0:33:24.559
the only way they have to support pwa

0:33:22.080,0:33:26.000
studio is using the app world php module

0:33:24.559,0:33:27.200
not even the javascript module the

0:33:26.000,0:33:30.240
useful development

0:33:27.200,0:33:31.440
so it's this is not easy for for most of

0:33:30.240,0:33:34.480
these

0:33:31.440,0:33:37.039
old school hosting companies so i think

0:33:34.480,0:33:37.760
that might change in the near future but

0:33:37.039,0:33:40.080
it's

0:33:37.760,0:33:41.440
i don't really know to be honest yeah

0:33:40.080,0:33:43.600
and when it comes to

0:33:41.440,0:33:45.120
infrastructure for pwa i saw that you

0:33:43.600,0:33:48.880
have a webinar

0:33:45.120,0:33:51.600
coming up on that in espanol um

0:33:48.880,0:33:53.120
but so what uh what are some of the

0:33:51.600,0:33:54.559
considerations i mean i know you already

0:33:53.120,0:33:56.720
started to talk about

0:33:54.559,0:33:58.399
uh the middleware that you have to deal

0:33:56.720,0:33:59.679
with but uh what are some of the

0:33:58.399,0:34:01.120
considerations when it comes to

0:33:59.679,0:34:03.120
infrastructure

0:34:01.120,0:34:05.440
uh that people might not be thinking

0:34:03.120,0:34:06.960
about for

0:34:05.440,0:34:09.119
this pwa a really good question and i'm

0:34:06.960,0:34:11.119
gonna start by saying that

0:34:09.119,0:34:13.200
never really understands you shouldn't

0:34:11.119,0:34:15.040
be compiling or building your stuff

0:34:13.200,0:34:17.119
in our production servers there are

0:34:15.040,0:34:18.320
times when people reach to us and ask me

0:34:17.119,0:34:21.119
to install i don't know

0:34:18.320,0:34:22.480
google chrome headless in our production

0:34:21.119,0:34:24.560
servers and i'm like

0:34:22.480,0:34:26.639
that doesn't make any sense that's not a

0:34:24.560,0:34:27.679
runtime dependency that's a build

0:34:26.639,0:34:29.839
dependency

0:34:27.679,0:34:31.440
and that's a really big difference you

0:34:29.839,0:34:32.240
need a bunch of stuff to build your

0:34:31.440,0:34:33.520
applications

0:34:32.240,0:34:35.599
but you don't need that stuff to

0:34:33.520,0:34:37.040
actually run that application like the

0:34:35.599,0:34:39.119
resulting

0:34:37.040,0:34:40.159
the the results when you build pwa

0:34:39.119,0:34:42.079
studio is

0:34:40.159,0:34:44.639
being a storefront and that's basically

0:34:42.079,0:34:46.720
javascript css and html

0:34:44.639,0:34:48.560
and that's all you need you don't need i

0:34:46.720,0:34:50.960
don't know npm or

0:34:48.560,0:34:53.119
yarn to actually run this application

0:34:50.960,0:34:55.359
you only need those tools to build

0:34:53.119,0:34:56.639
the application so what most of the

0:34:55.359,0:34:59.119
people need is a build

0:34:56.639,0:35:00.800
server you might need a development

0:34:59.119,0:35:02.960
server you might need a staging server

0:35:00.800,0:35:04.960
but in production you don't need to load

0:35:02.960,0:35:06.720
all these build dependencies because

0:35:04.960,0:35:07.839
not only it's expensive and it's

0:35:06.720,0:35:08.880
dangerous because you are not

0:35:07.839,0:35:11.599
maintaining that

0:35:08.880,0:35:13.040
but you don't need that to run your site

0:35:11.599,0:35:15.040
and that's a really big thing

0:35:13.040,0:35:16.079
nobody really understands people will

0:35:15.040,0:35:17.920
ask me if they can

0:35:16.079,0:35:19.680
run mesh pack in our servers and i'm

0:35:17.920,0:35:21.760
like why

0:35:19.680,0:35:24.000
why would you run that in a production

0:35:21.760,0:35:25.839
server it doesn't work like that

0:35:24.000,0:35:27.680
you run that locally you run that in a

0:35:25.839,0:35:28.240
station server you run that in a build

0:35:27.680,0:35:30.000
server

0:35:28.240,0:35:32.079
and then you transfer your resulting

0:35:30.000,0:35:34.160
artifacts to production you do deploy

0:35:32.079,0:35:35.680
and that's it you know you don't need to

0:35:34.160,0:35:37.200
build this stuff in your production

0:35:35.680,0:35:37.680
servers and that's something i would

0:35:37.200,0:35:40.880
like

0:35:37.680,0:35:43.440
more people to understand you know yeah

0:35:40.880,0:35:44.079
yeah that makes sense um because then

0:35:43.440,0:35:46.160
you're building

0:35:44.079,0:35:47.520
in in production you got a whole lot of

0:35:46.160,0:35:51.440
stuff to deal with

0:35:47.520,0:35:55.119
um i saw you retweeted uh lars uh pwa

0:35:51.440,0:35:56.640
scaffolding extension uh is amazing like

0:35:55.119,0:35:58.720
he's doing a great work like

0:35:56.640,0:36:00.079
he he reminds me of mario's like

0:35:58.720,0:36:03.839
remember the ultimate

0:36:00.079,0:36:04.480
creator that's like that cut my workload

0:36:03.839,0:36:06.240
in half

0:36:04.480,0:36:08.560
a couple of years ago and i was like

0:36:06.240,0:36:10.800
dude i love you marius i love you

0:36:08.560,0:36:12.640
like you made my life so much easier and

0:36:10.800,0:36:15.200
then i see lars doing the same

0:36:12.640,0:36:16.640
and i'm like this is great like more and

0:36:15.200,0:36:19.040
more people is going to adopt this

0:36:16.640,0:36:20.560
because it's really simple to create

0:36:19.040,0:36:22.480
like a skeleton for a module you don't

0:36:20.560,0:36:22.960
need to like copy the classes you don't

0:36:22.480,0:36:24.480
need to

0:36:22.960,0:36:26.640
have your own template you can run a

0:36:24.480,0:36:29.440
couple of that's pretty much it

0:36:26.640,0:36:30.480
i thought that was genius like yeah yeah

0:36:29.440,0:36:31.839
that's incredible

0:36:30.480,0:36:33.599
it's funny i'm gonna i'm gonna get them

0:36:31.839,0:36:34.320
on the podcast soon and talk about it

0:36:33.599,0:36:37.280
and stuff and

0:36:34.320,0:36:38.800
um it's been uh interesting because i've

0:36:37.280,0:36:41.040
been wondering how

0:36:38.800,0:36:42.400
the what the extensibility model was

0:36:41.040,0:36:45.119
going to look like

0:36:42.400,0:36:45.680
for pwa without really understanding it

0:36:45.119,0:36:49.119
very well

0:36:45.680,0:36:50.800
understanding magento's extension model

0:36:49.119,0:36:52.560
but so that's something i've been trying

0:36:50.800,0:36:53.280
to understand and i've done simple

0:36:52.560,0:36:55.359
things like

0:36:53.280,0:36:57.599
i've used view components to install

0:36:55.359,0:36:58.800
like an algolia search into a larger

0:36:57.599,0:37:01.280
application so

0:36:58.800,0:37:02.160
i'm i sort of have an idea for how it'll

0:37:01.280,0:37:04.160
work but

0:37:02.160,0:37:05.680
i've been interested to kind of better

0:37:04.160,0:37:07.839
understand that but

0:37:05.680,0:37:09.200
uh yeah he's been doing some pretty

0:37:07.839,0:37:11.839
interesting work

0:37:09.200,0:37:13.359
you know yeah absolutely and i have like

0:37:11.839,0:37:14.400
i'm actually concerned about the

0:37:13.359,0:37:16.640
extensibility

0:37:14.400,0:37:18.960
not like the pwa story or this

0:37:16.640,0:37:21.280
implementation extensibility but

0:37:18.960,0:37:23.760
how server are going to be developing

0:37:21.280,0:37:25.839
like pwa compatible extensions because

0:37:23.760,0:37:27.520
let's say you are a payment provider you

0:37:25.839,0:37:29.200
can do the magento stuff and be like

0:37:27.520,0:37:31.040
okay this works with magento but that's

0:37:29.200,0:37:32.880
not gonna work out of the box with like

0:37:31.040,0:37:34.960
pwa so you need to take that into

0:37:32.880,0:37:37.440
consideration you need to expose

0:37:34.960,0:37:38.400
most of your stuff through graphql or

0:37:37.440,0:37:40.560
any other api

0:37:38.400,0:37:41.920
so i think that's going to be a blocker

0:37:40.560,0:37:42.960
because most of these accenture

0:37:41.920,0:37:45.839
providers

0:37:42.960,0:37:46.480
they are not developing with pwa in mind

0:37:45.839,0:37:48.320
you know

0:37:46.480,0:37:50.000
sometimes they do stuff that simply

0:37:48.320,0:37:52.400
works sometimes they

0:37:50.000,0:37:54.640
create some api endpoints but sometimes

0:37:52.400,0:37:56.480
it's simply it's not considered you know

0:37:54.640,0:37:58.480
and that's going to be problematic and i

0:37:56.480,0:37:59.920
don't know how that's going to work out

0:37:58.480,0:38:01.680
yeah i think they're going to have to

0:37:59.920,0:38:03.280
have api endpoints

0:38:01.680,0:38:04.720
and then maybe they're going to have to

0:38:03.280,0:38:07.040
ship a react

0:38:04.720,0:38:09.839
component a view component a few

0:38:07.040,0:38:11.920
different types of components which then

0:38:09.839,0:38:13.920
as the site developer you're probably

0:38:11.920,0:38:15.280
going to have to copy those components

0:38:13.920,0:38:16.560
into your code

0:38:15.280,0:38:18.480
i don't think they can be loaded

0:38:16.560,0:38:19.760
dynamically i mean i don't really

0:38:18.480,0:38:21.359
i don't really know but it'll be

0:38:19.760,0:38:22.160
interesting to kind of better understand

0:38:21.359,0:38:25.440
that

0:38:22.160,0:38:27.119
um kind of kind of reminds me of the os

0:38:25.440,0:38:28.800
commerce days where you have to copy and

0:38:27.119,0:38:32.000
paste stuff in

0:38:28.800,0:38:33.920
to get extensions and stuff going

0:38:32.000,0:38:36.480
yeah that stuff is not going to be easy

0:38:33.920,0:38:38.960
and the more extension providers that

0:38:36.480,0:38:39.760
are developing with like graphql and pwa

0:38:38.960,0:38:42.079
in mind

0:38:39.760,0:38:43.520
the better but i don't know how extended

0:38:42.079,0:38:45.440
that is these days

0:38:43.520,0:38:46.960
and that kind of worries me because if

0:38:45.440,0:38:49.520
we want people to adopt

0:38:46.960,0:38:51.119
pwa we need to give them like not only

0:38:49.520,0:38:52.800
the tools and the resources but the

0:38:51.119,0:38:54.320
extensibility and the extensions we

0:38:52.800,0:38:55.839
already have for magento 2

0:38:54.320,0:38:57.599
because if they have to build everything

0:38:55.839,0:38:59.599
from scratch by themselves

0:38:57.599,0:39:02.400
that's going to cost them time and money

0:38:59.599,0:39:05.280
and we are trying to like

0:39:02.400,0:39:06.480
i think most of these pwa tools are are

0:39:05.280,0:39:09.200
being defined or

0:39:06.480,0:39:11.040
defined themselves in a position from

0:39:09.200,0:39:11.760
the current magento one magento to

0:39:11.040,0:39:13.839
front-end

0:39:11.760,0:39:15.119
and that's not great you know we we need

0:39:13.839,0:39:16.800
to

0:39:15.119,0:39:19.440
like i really like hydra because it

0:39:16.800,0:39:21.200
feels simple and extensible but i don't

0:39:19.440,0:39:22.480
feel the same about the rest of the pwa

0:39:21.200,0:39:24.720
implementations

0:39:22.480,0:39:26.320
like it's it requires extra work to make

0:39:24.720,0:39:29.440
your stuff work with that

0:39:26.320,0:39:31.839
and that's not great if you ask me

0:39:29.440,0:39:33.839
when it comes to magento 2 uh

0:39:31.839,0:39:36.320
contribution in general

0:39:33.839,0:39:37.200
um i think i remember were you a

0:39:36.320,0:39:39.920
maintainer

0:39:37.200,0:39:40.960
at one point yeah are you still in my

0:39:39.920,0:39:44.240
container yeah okay

0:39:40.960,0:39:45.520
okay so um i've talked to some people

0:39:44.240,0:39:48.480
about whether

0:39:45.520,0:39:50.160
contribution is up in the community or

0:39:48.480,0:39:52.400
is it down are people

0:39:50.160,0:39:54.320
is the community contributing more or

0:39:52.400,0:39:56.160
less than they used to

0:39:54.320,0:39:57.920
the thing with lars is a great example

0:39:56.160,0:39:59.520
of community contribution right it

0:39:57.920,0:40:01.200
reminds you of like the marius stuff and

0:39:59.520,0:40:04.000
like all this other stuff

0:40:01.200,0:40:05.520
but like do you think there's more

0:40:04.000,0:40:08.480
contribution now or

0:40:05.520,0:40:09.599
less what's your feeling i don't really

0:40:08.480,0:40:11.119
know the answer to that

0:40:09.599,0:40:12.960
i think the magenta community

0:40:11.119,0:40:15.440
engineering team released a new

0:40:12.960,0:40:16.800
statics page or something i don't

0:40:15.440,0:40:19.200
remember the url

0:40:16.800,0:40:20.079
i think it's open source.magento.com or

0:40:19.200,0:40:23.119
something like that

0:40:20.079,0:40:25.359
without actually yeah

0:40:23.119,0:40:26.800
if i have to guess i would say most of

0:40:25.359,0:40:28.240
the contributions are coming for

0:40:26.800,0:40:30.400
partners these days

0:40:28.240,0:40:32.560
i think there's a new adobe program

0:40:30.400,0:40:35.040
where they pay some of these partners

0:40:32.560,0:40:36.800
who don't have that much work to do to

0:40:35.040,0:40:40.560
contribute back to the code

0:40:36.800,0:40:42.880
but it's it's kind of hard to tell like

0:40:40.560,0:40:44.319
i don't even know i don't know to be

0:40:42.880,0:40:45.359
honest i don't really know the answer to

0:40:44.319,0:40:47.119
that i think it's

0:40:45.359,0:40:49.040
it might be pretty much the same but

0:40:47.119,0:40:49.359
it's it's kind of hard to tell without

0:40:49.040,0:40:51.520
the

0:40:49.359,0:40:53.040
the real stats it's weird because i

0:40:51.520,0:40:54.560
remember thinking i thought it was great

0:40:53.040,0:40:56.079
when they were starting to incentivize

0:40:54.560,0:40:57.680
partners to contribute with the

0:40:56.079,0:40:59.520
different point systems and stuff and

0:40:57.680,0:41:02.560
then now the covid program i think is

0:40:59.520,0:41:03.119
is really cool um but then it seems like

0:41:02.560,0:41:05.920
maybe

0:41:03.119,0:41:07.440
it's because it's incentivized it's

0:41:05.920,0:41:09.040
something that the partners do because

0:41:07.440,0:41:10.319
of those incentives but then that like

0:41:09.040,0:41:12.240
organic

0:41:10.319,0:41:13.599
contribution from the community like the

0:41:12.240,0:41:15.920
thing lars did and

0:41:13.599,0:41:16.720
stuff like that it seems maybe there's a

0:41:15.920,0:41:19.839
little less

0:41:16.720,0:41:20.880
but i don't know when this all started

0:41:19.839,0:41:23.200
maybe i don't know

0:41:20.880,0:41:24.079
two or three years ago open source was

0:41:23.200,0:41:26.319
in full force

0:41:24.079,0:41:27.280
but then with the points and all that

0:41:26.319,0:41:29.200
gamification

0:41:27.280,0:41:31.040
people was like okay i can actually make

0:41:29.200,0:41:32.960
money out of this i can actually be the

0:41:31.040,0:41:35.359
number one contributor

0:41:32.960,0:41:37.280
be like if i do four or five pull

0:41:35.359,0:41:38.480
requests a month i'm gonna be the first

0:41:37.280,0:41:41.680
one in this list

0:41:38.480,0:41:42.720
and people took that and tried to how to

0:41:41.680,0:41:45.520
say they tried to

0:41:42.720,0:41:47.119
meet the game they tried to win the game

0:41:45.520,0:41:48.000
exactly that was the expression i was

0:41:47.119,0:41:49.359
looking for

0:41:48.000,0:41:51.040
and probably the same happened with the

0:41:49.359,0:41:53.200
magento masters award

0:41:51.040,0:41:54.880
that was an incredibly good award when

0:41:53.200,0:41:57.599
sherry rhodey created that

0:41:54.880,0:41:58.560
but then it has to change somehow

0:41:57.599,0:42:00.640
because people were

0:41:58.560,0:42:01.680
doing everything to get that award and

0:42:00.640,0:42:03.839
that killed the fun

0:42:01.680,0:42:05.680
you know like i don't travel to get an

0:42:03.839,0:42:06.319
award i try because i like it naturally

0:42:05.680,0:42:08.079
because it

0:42:06.319,0:42:10.240
gives me money and it gives me the

0:42:08.079,0:42:10.800
possibility to go to like to egypt to

0:42:10.240,0:42:13.040
rome

0:42:10.800,0:42:14.000
and to india all on the all in the same

0:42:13.040,0:42:17.359
year you know

0:42:14.000,0:42:19.359
so it's when you incentivize this kind

0:42:17.359,0:42:21.920
of stuff people try to

0:42:19.359,0:42:23.599
play not don't won't play by the rules

0:42:21.920,0:42:25.760
and it's it's not great you know

0:42:23.599,0:42:27.839
so it's it's a really interesting

0:42:25.760,0:42:30.000
balance and i think jerry

0:42:27.839,0:42:32.319
cherry roll actually did something great

0:42:30.000,0:42:33.599
by changing the magento masters program

0:42:32.319,0:42:35.359
yeah so it's it's gonna be really

0:42:33.599,0:42:35.839
interesting next year i think she's

0:42:35.359,0:42:37.839
great

0:42:35.839,0:42:38.880
and i love sherry so nothing she's doing

0:42:37.839,0:42:41.440
is wrong for me

0:42:38.880,0:42:42.480
yeah yeah that's a good i think that's a

0:42:41.440,0:42:45.680
good place to end

0:42:42.480,0:42:46.880
um it was a it was a fun uh uh

0:42:45.680,0:42:49.359
conversation here

0:42:46.880,0:42:51.520
and uh where's the best place for people

0:42:49.359,0:42:53.200
to find you online

0:42:51.520,0:42:54.960
no you can find me on twitter you can

0:42:53.200,0:42:57.040
find me on linkedin or i'm

0:42:54.960,0:42:59.040
probably on slack talking about food

0:42:57.040,0:43:05.119
with someone so yeah i can

0:42:59.040,0:43:05.119
you can find me anywhere almost anywhere