0:00:00.080,0:00:04.160
you shouldn't be compiling or building

0:00:02.000,0:00:06.000
your stuff in our production servers

0:00:04.160,0:00:07.759
there are times when people reach to us

0:00:06.000,0:00:10.559
and ask me to install i don't know

0:00:07.759,0:00:11.920
google chrome headless in our production

0:00:10.559,0:00:14.000
servers and i'm like

0:00:11.920,0:00:17.920
that doesn't make any sense that's not a

0:00:14.000,0:00:17.920
runtime dependency that's a build

0:00:22.120,0:00:31.840
[Music]

0:00:28.840,0:00:31.840
dependency

0:00:32.880,0:00:36.960
how you doing hey man how are you doing

0:00:35.440,0:00:39.040
these days it's been a while

0:00:36.960,0:00:40.320
it's been a while it's been a long time

0:00:39.040,0:00:42.399
how uh

0:00:40.320,0:00:43.920
we're in the middle of covid how's

0:00:42.399,0:00:44.960
everything going we're talking a little

0:00:43.920,0:00:48.480
bit about your

0:00:44.960,0:00:49.840
your covet hair hairstyle uh before we

0:00:48.480,0:00:52.640
started but

0:00:49.840,0:00:53.120
are you guys going hair stylies yeah it

0:00:52.640,0:00:55.199
just looks

0:00:53.120,0:00:56.879
good hairstyle is real man it's it's a

0:00:55.199,0:00:58.640
real thing like everybody has yeah

0:00:56.879,0:01:00.480
we had a call with mark from metallica

0:00:58.640,0:01:02.000
like a week ago and somebody was like

0:01:00.480,0:01:02.879
that's a really nice code here and he

0:01:02.000,0:01:04.879
was like

0:01:02.879,0:01:06.960
yeah that this is my regular hair and i

0:01:04.879,0:01:09.439
say the same

0:01:06.960,0:01:10.320
this is my regular hair yeah that was

0:01:09.439,0:01:12.720
hilarious

0:01:10.320,0:01:12.720
it's like

0:01:13.680,0:01:16.799
he's like i just got a haircut yesterday

0:01:15.840,0:01:19.600
this is this is

0:01:16.799,0:01:20.960
how i want it to look yeah dude but now

0:01:19.600,0:01:23.119
it's been it's been quiet

0:01:20.960,0:01:24.720
nobody travels these days so i actually

0:01:23.119,0:01:26.000
get to know my house you know we got

0:01:24.720,0:01:28.080
this really nice place like

0:01:26.000,0:01:29.360
two or three years ago but we haven't

0:01:28.080,0:01:31.680
stayed here for like

0:01:29.360,0:01:32.960
a really long period of time we came

0:01:31.680,0:01:35.040
here for like i don't know one or two

0:01:32.960,0:01:38.079
months a year and then we were traveling

0:01:35.040,0:01:40.159
so this house ended up being great like

0:01:38.079,0:01:41.759
we have three floors a patio a really

0:01:40.159,0:01:43.439
big barbecue pit

0:01:41.759,0:01:44.880
so i don't if i don't want to see my

0:01:43.439,0:01:46.399
girlfriend i can go just

0:01:44.880,0:01:48.560
i can go to a different floor and be

0:01:46.399,0:01:49.360
like okay i'm i'm here now i don't have

0:01:48.560,0:01:52.479
to see you

0:01:49.360,0:01:53.520
i don't see you for like three days just

0:01:52.479,0:01:55.920
hang out

0:01:53.520,0:01:56.640
that's cool it's been eating great i get

0:01:55.920,0:01:58.560
to know

0:01:56.640,0:02:00.000
like my house i get to see my family

0:01:58.560,0:02:01.119
well it's not like i get to see them

0:02:00.000,0:02:03.600
every day but it's been

0:02:01.119,0:02:06.240
it's been an interesting experience not

0:02:03.600,0:02:09.119
to travel for a long period of time

0:02:06.240,0:02:09.759
because you're a hardcore digital nomad

0:02:09.119,0:02:13.280
like

0:02:09.759,0:02:14.720
hardcore so i'm curious how that's going

0:02:13.280,0:02:17.840
for you without traveling

0:02:14.720,0:02:20.239
like are you liking it you're

0:02:17.840,0:02:21.200
like discovering like oh i like staying

0:02:20.239,0:02:23.440
home and

0:02:21.200,0:02:25.280
and a different a different side of you

0:02:23.440,0:02:27.920
a different part of your

0:02:25.280,0:02:28.879
life coming out more kind of a thing

0:02:27.920,0:02:30.080
yeah it's been

0:02:28.879,0:02:32.400
it's been a really interesting

0:02:30.080,0:02:34.400
experience definitely new for the last

0:02:32.400,0:02:35.760
seven or eight years we travel around i

0:02:34.400,0:02:38.400
don't know 65

0:02:35.760,0:02:41.200
between 65 and 75 percent of the year

0:02:38.400,0:02:43.200
which is like a lot of days maybe

0:02:41.200,0:02:45.200
one out of three days at the very least

0:02:43.200,0:02:46.480
and sometimes one out of two

0:02:45.200,0:02:48.720
so it's been it's been quite an

0:02:46.480,0:02:51.519
experience but i was traveling

0:02:48.720,0:02:52.560
right before this all this covet stop

0:02:51.519,0:02:54.319
stuff started

0:02:52.560,0:02:55.680
we were this year i went to india for

0:02:54.319,0:02:58.720
meet magento india

0:02:55.680,0:03:00.319
i met with my guy bj there and brent and

0:02:58.720,0:03:00.640
that's that's really interesting we went

0:03:00.319,0:03:02.480
to

0:03:00.640,0:03:04.879
we went to see some local attractions

0:03:02.480,0:03:07.760
with gc and those guys

0:03:04.879,0:03:08.800
and then i flew to iceland to go see the

0:03:07.760,0:03:10.800
auroras

0:03:08.800,0:03:13.120
but then all this copy stuff happened

0:03:10.800,0:03:14.159
and we had to rush back to argentina so

0:03:13.120,0:03:15.760
it's been

0:03:14.159,0:03:17.680
it's been interesting i've been here for

0:03:15.760,0:03:19.200
the last i don't know seven months maybe

0:03:17.680,0:03:20.720
i have no idea nobody counts time

0:03:19.200,0:03:23.920
anymore like time is

0:03:20.720,0:03:23.920
social construction these days

0:03:24.239,0:03:28.080
we were tweeting about uh india about

0:03:27.120,0:03:30.319
like a

0:03:28.080,0:03:31.599
meditation retreat or a yoga retreat or

0:03:30.319,0:03:32.799
something like that and you were telling

0:03:31.599,0:03:34.959
me about

0:03:32.799,0:03:35.920
is that did you just do that at this

0:03:34.959,0:03:38.560
time when you were it

0:03:35.920,0:03:39.280
no that was from another oh i don't know

0:03:38.560,0:03:41.280
maybe three

0:03:39.280,0:03:42.400
four maybe five years ago we went to

0:03:41.280,0:03:46.080
rishikesh

0:03:42.400,0:03:47.920
right before magento india i did

0:03:46.080,0:03:50.080
which is like the largest i.t city in

0:03:47.920,0:03:51.920
india and then i went to mumbai

0:03:50.080,0:03:53.920
uh and then we went to rishikesh for

0:03:51.920,0:03:57.200
this yoga retreat us

0:03:53.920,0:03:58.959
that was incredible yeah yeah man it's

0:03:57.200,0:04:02.319
i i would totally recommend that to you

0:03:58.959,0:04:02.319
if you want to do it with your family

0:04:03.920,0:04:06.959
oh yeah yeah yeah yeah they write the

0:04:06.080,0:04:09.040
the white

0:04:06.959,0:04:10.720
that white something i think it's i

0:04:09.040,0:04:12.239
don't know the name of the disc but they

0:04:10.720,0:04:14.000
went to this retreat

0:04:12.239,0:04:15.280
in rishikesh and they wrote all this

0:04:14.000,0:04:17.040
stuff and that was

0:04:15.280,0:04:18.799
that was such an incredible experience

0:04:17.040,0:04:20.959
like not only the yoga

0:04:18.799,0:04:22.639
but they they make you cook your food

0:04:20.959,0:04:23.919
they make you stay inside and they teach

0:04:22.639,0:04:25.840
you how to breathe

0:04:23.919,0:04:27.600
and it's been it's been incredible i

0:04:25.840,0:04:29.199
would do that again anytime

0:04:27.600,0:04:31.199
i want to do something like that so much

0:04:29.199,0:04:33.440
i've done a little bit of yoga i went

0:04:31.199,0:04:35.120
for a few months i went like every day

0:04:33.440,0:04:37.199
and then i actually stopped because like

0:04:35.120,0:04:40.479
my wrists started to hurt

0:04:37.199,0:04:43.120
and then uh and my back too and so

0:04:40.479,0:04:43.919
uh so so i stopped but i've just been

0:04:43.120,0:04:46.240
stretching

0:04:43.919,0:04:47.759
more you know like i just when i'm at

0:04:46.240,0:04:50.080
the gym whatever like i just

0:04:47.759,0:04:51.440
stretch more which i think is and then

0:04:50.080,0:04:54.800
breathing i'm trying to do

0:04:51.440,0:04:56.800
a little more intentionally too um

0:04:54.800,0:04:58.560
but yeah i really want it so we were you

0:04:56.800,0:05:00.800
there for like a week or

0:04:58.560,0:05:03.360
no we went there for i don't know two or

0:05:00.800,0:05:03.919
three weeks i think it was 25 21 days or

0:05:03.360,0:05:06.080
something

0:05:03.919,0:05:07.840
i don't even remember anymore but it was

0:05:06.080,0:05:09.600
it was really interesting it

0:05:07.840,0:05:11.520
this place rishikesh is near the

0:05:09.600,0:05:14.960
himalayan mountain

0:05:11.520,0:05:15.600
like on the shore of the of the kangas

0:05:14.960,0:05:18.560
river

0:05:15.600,0:05:20.800
which is basically in india it's a

0:05:18.560,0:05:21.919
living being which is basically what oh

0:05:20.800,0:05:25.039
a deity

0:05:21.919,0:05:27.680
a deity yeah like all about that is

0:05:25.039,0:05:29.280
it's so interesting it's so nice like i

0:05:27.680,0:05:31.520
don't even know how to explain that but

0:05:29.280,0:05:32.560
when they explained us that the rear was

0:05:31.520,0:05:34.160
actually alive

0:05:32.560,0:05:35.600
and they were worshiping the river i was

0:05:34.160,0:05:38.639
like oh

0:05:35.600,0:05:41.039
aha mind blown yeah i can imagine

0:05:38.639,0:05:41.759
just not even having the words for that

0:05:41.039,0:05:44.160
uh

0:05:41.759,0:05:46.400
that experience it sounds like it would

0:05:44.160,0:05:49.039
just be it'd be pretty awesome

0:05:46.400,0:05:50.720
um and then and meet magento india how

0:05:49.039,0:05:52.000
was that it was good this last most

0:05:50.720,0:05:53.759
recent time india is

0:05:52.000,0:05:56.160
incredible every time i go there i

0:05:53.759,0:05:56.720
remember why i'm traveling like 40 hours

0:05:56.160,0:05:58.800
to reach

0:05:56.720,0:06:00.160
india from argentina it's so nice so

0:05:58.800,0:06:02.720
long travel man

0:06:00.160,0:06:05.280
that's a lot of travel to get there it's

0:06:02.720,0:06:06.080
14 hours to like from buenos aires to

0:06:05.280,0:06:09.120
rome and then

0:06:06.080,0:06:12.400
14 12 more hours from rome to daily

0:06:09.120,0:06:13.759
so it's 24 28 hours and without a

0:06:12.400,0:06:15.919
downtime so it's it's

0:06:13.759,0:06:17.440
a really long trip but it's always worth

0:06:15.919,0:06:18.720
it like the indian community is

0:06:17.440,0:06:20.800
incredibly good

0:06:18.720,0:06:22.000
they're it's really healthy everybody

0:06:20.800,0:06:23.680
knows everybody

0:06:22.000,0:06:25.600
and you get to speak with those guys who

0:06:23.680,0:06:27.120
are actually building the stuff we see

0:06:25.600,0:06:29.039
because a lot of us companies they

0:06:27.120,0:06:32.160
outsource the service over there

0:06:29.039,0:06:34.400
so it's it's great you get to understand

0:06:32.160,0:06:35.840
why the ecosystem is the way it is how

0:06:34.400,0:06:37.280
people work over there it's

0:06:35.840,0:06:39.039
it's really interesting and the event is

0:06:37.280,0:06:40.880
always great like any event

0:06:39.039,0:06:42.479
what gender is organizing these days so

0:06:40.880,0:06:43.759
it's it's a really interesting

0:06:42.479,0:06:45.039
experience if you have a chance you

0:06:43.759,0:06:48.319
should definitely go at least

0:06:45.039,0:06:48.880
yeah yeah i'm i'm so bad at traveling

0:06:48.319,0:06:52.080
man like

0:06:48.880,0:06:55.120
if i'm on a plane for like four hours

0:06:52.080,0:06:58.240
that's kind of tough like eight hours uh

0:06:55.120,0:07:00.479
like i'm almost ready to die like

0:06:58.240,0:07:02.000
12 like i don't is it easy for you to

0:07:00.479,0:07:03.759
travel are you just getting a plane do

0:07:02.000,0:07:06.000
you sleep do you just sleep on planes i

0:07:03.759,0:07:08.319
hate people that can sleep on a plane

0:07:06.000,0:07:09.120
i can sleep i can do stuff if i don't

0:07:08.319,0:07:11.280
have wi-fi

0:07:09.120,0:07:12.479
i kind of freak out because i don't like

0:07:11.280,0:07:16.240
being offline

0:07:12.479,0:07:18.319
but i don't know i used to be used to it

0:07:16.240,0:07:19.840
but it's i don't know it's not that easy

0:07:18.319,0:07:22.560
it's like i think

0:07:19.840,0:07:24.720
i kind of hate hotels and planes it's

0:07:22.560,0:07:26.240
not like i enjoy doing that

0:07:24.720,0:07:27.919
but it's it's a part of traveling you

0:07:26.240,0:07:28.400
know so it's it's something you have to

0:07:27.919,0:07:30.000
do

0:07:28.400,0:07:31.759
but no i would rather i don't know take

0:07:30.000,0:07:33.599
a train maybe if that

0:07:31.759,0:07:35.120
was a possibility or maybe stay in a

0:07:33.599,0:07:37.680
house instead of a hotel

0:07:35.120,0:07:39.280
but it's i don't know it's those are

0:07:37.680,0:07:39.919
some of the complaints i have but it's

0:07:39.280,0:07:41.199
like

0:07:39.919,0:07:42.800
i don't know it's it's kind of

0:07:41.199,0:07:44.720
privileged to be able to complain about

0:07:42.800,0:07:46.720
that so it's of course

0:07:44.720,0:07:48.479
of course yeah you do you you mentioned

0:07:46.720,0:07:49.680
you always like to be online do you do

0:07:48.479,0:07:52.160
you disconnect

0:07:49.680,0:07:53.120
do you try to have time to disconnect or

0:07:52.160,0:07:55.440
always

0:07:53.120,0:07:56.639
always reachable always always spread it

0:07:55.440,0:07:58.639
yeah okay

0:07:56.639,0:08:00.479
it's not i don't do that for my work

0:07:58.639,0:08:01.199
it's not like anybody can contact me

0:08:00.479,0:08:03.280
anytime

0:08:01.199,0:08:05.280
i one of the things i do when i work

0:08:03.280,0:08:07.440
remotely which is the last seven or

0:08:05.280,0:08:09.520
eight years is to define

0:08:07.440,0:08:10.879
the times i'm working people know i can

0:08:09.520,0:08:13.759
be reached during the

0:08:10.879,0:08:15.440
work day in detroit for example so they

0:08:13.759,0:08:15.840
know they can reach me from i don't know

0:08:15.440,0:08:18.560
eight

0:08:15.840,0:08:19.440
to six maybe eight to five and i'll be

0:08:18.560,0:08:21.280
available

0:08:19.440,0:08:23.520
but it's it's not like i'm always online

0:08:21.280,0:08:24.960
and i'm always on twitter or slack it's

0:08:23.520,0:08:27.680
i don't think that's healthy

0:08:24.960,0:08:29.759
but i do i'm i i think i might have an

0:08:27.680,0:08:31.840
addiction because i'm always in my phone

0:08:29.759,0:08:33.200
yes that's not great you don't think

0:08:31.840,0:08:34.719
it's healthy but you're always

0:08:33.200,0:08:36.640
you're always connected and you went to

0:08:34.719,0:08:39.519
a yoga retreat for 21 days

0:08:36.640,0:08:41.039
but you don't want to unplug it all you

0:08:39.519,0:08:42.800
got to unplug

0:08:41.039,0:08:44.000
i was that place they don't have a

0:08:42.800,0:08:45.839
really good internet connection in

0:08:44.000,0:08:47.279
rishikesh and every time the internet

0:08:45.839,0:08:49.440
was down i was like

0:08:47.279,0:08:51.519
maybe i can go to the front desk and be

0:08:49.440,0:08:53.120
like hey maybe i can fix your internet

0:08:51.519,0:08:55.600
but then i realized that was like a

0:08:53.120,0:08:57.360
terrible idea because everybody in india

0:08:55.600,0:08:59.680
no scientist stuff it's not like i'm the

0:08:57.360,0:09:02.720
only one who can fix their stuff so

0:08:59.680,0:09:06.160
uh yeah yeah what do you think about

0:09:02.720,0:09:08.560
uh the virtual conferences that

0:09:06.160,0:09:09.200
um are going on like you obviously go to

0:09:08.560,0:09:12.240
a million

0:09:09.200,0:09:15.519
conferences 45 to be exact

0:09:12.240,0:09:18.080
in the last five years um you know

0:09:15.519,0:09:18.959
the in-person aspect can't really be

0:09:18.080,0:09:21.839
replicated

0:09:18.959,0:09:23.360
of course but uh what do you think about

0:09:21.839,0:09:25.200
some of these digital conferences

0:09:23.360,0:09:27.360
any features that you think are are

0:09:25.200,0:09:29.680
helping to bring people together

0:09:27.360,0:09:31.120
any features that you like i thought the

0:09:29.680,0:09:34.080
networking feature was cool

0:09:31.120,0:09:35.440
at the adobe live conference but like

0:09:34.080,0:09:38.560
what do you think about all these

0:09:35.440,0:09:40.320
online conferences it's it's a really

0:09:38.560,0:09:42.080
interesting question and it's it's kind

0:09:40.320,0:09:44.240
of hard i'm going to divide this in two

0:09:42.080,0:09:44.720
aspects one is the business aspect i

0:09:44.240,0:09:46.720
don't think

0:09:44.720,0:09:48.959
this is great for business we used to

0:09:46.720,0:09:51.040
get a lot of leads from conferences

0:09:48.959,0:09:52.240
and that's no longer there like it's

0:09:51.040,0:09:54.160
really harder to

0:09:52.240,0:09:56.640
get some business out of these virtual

0:09:54.160,0:09:58.800
events but then the human connection is

0:09:56.640,0:10:00.800
it's still there you know a couple of

0:09:58.800,0:10:02.640
weeks ago we did this adobe event the

0:10:00.800,0:10:04.800
developer experience event

0:10:02.640,0:10:06.560
and we did this roundtable about remote

0:10:04.800,0:10:09.200
working and i actually met

0:10:06.560,0:10:10.240
laura which was here who was here like i

0:10:09.200,0:10:12.240
don't know a couple of

0:10:10.240,0:10:13.680
days or weeks ago and that was really

0:10:12.240,0:10:16.800
interesting because

0:10:13.680,0:10:19.200
that was like we socialize

0:10:16.800,0:10:20.240
whatever that means in this era so we

0:10:19.200,0:10:22.320
get to speak about

0:10:20.240,0:10:24.640
random stuff we get to i don't know do

0:10:22.320,0:10:26.320
the coffee machine talks that kind of

0:10:24.640,0:10:28.079
stuff so that's already there

0:10:26.320,0:10:30.000
that's still there sorry but this the

0:10:28.079,0:10:30.880
business aspect is i don't think it's

0:10:30.000,0:10:32.800
useful

0:10:30.880,0:10:34.480
for a lot of companies yeah we are

0:10:32.800,0:10:36.800
considering like

0:10:34.480,0:10:38.480
next sponsor a lot of events and it's

0:10:36.800,0:10:39.440
right it's been great because we get a

0:10:38.480,0:10:41.120
lot of leads

0:10:39.440,0:10:42.640
but with the virtual events it's not the

0:10:41.120,0:10:43.360
same and that's going to be problematic

0:10:42.640,0:10:45.200
because

0:10:43.360,0:10:47.440
most of these conferences are maintained

0:10:45.200,0:10:49.120
by sponsors and not only by tickets

0:10:47.440,0:10:50.480
so it's that's going to be problematic

0:10:49.120,0:10:53.600
at some point or

0:10:50.480,0:10:54.560
maybe this this world virtual stuff

0:10:53.600,0:10:56.160
changes and we

0:10:54.560,0:10:58.880
start getting business again but that's

0:10:56.160,0:11:00.240
not been the case so we we had to resort

0:10:58.880,0:11:01.120
to different stuff like doing more

0:11:00.240,0:11:03.040
webinars

0:11:01.120,0:11:04.320
trying to engage with partners more and

0:11:03.040,0:11:06.560
that kind of stuff

0:11:04.320,0:11:08.160
so yeah the business aspect is not great

0:11:06.560,0:11:10.320
but i think the social aspect is still

0:11:08.160,0:11:12.240
there and it's greatly appreciated

0:11:10.320,0:11:14.240
like i don't get to speak with anybody

0:11:12.240,0:11:15.920
while i'm here i don't think i don't get

0:11:14.240,0:11:17.680
to speak with you or brent or like the

0:11:15.920,0:11:19.120
regular people i see when i'm traveling

0:11:17.680,0:11:20.959
but then when we hang out in these

0:11:19.120,0:11:22.240
events it's like a perfect excuse to

0:11:20.959,0:11:23.760
turn on the camera

0:11:22.240,0:11:24.959
speak with them and be like hey man how

0:11:23.760,0:11:25.760
are you doing these days i like your

0:11:24.959,0:11:27.360
hair

0:11:25.760,0:11:29.120
and that spins to like a different

0:11:27.360,0:11:30.640
conversation so it's

0:11:29.120,0:11:32.320
yeah i like the social aspect but the

0:11:30.640,0:11:34.480
business aspect is not that great now

0:11:32.320,0:11:35.680
yeah i think yeah i saw some events that

0:11:34.480,0:11:38.480
have like a

0:11:35.680,0:11:39.360
like a digital sponsor booth and things

0:11:38.480,0:11:42.399
like that

0:11:39.360,0:11:43.600
and it's like okay i mean i think that

0:11:42.399,0:11:45.279
we have to

0:11:43.600,0:11:46.880
it's like everything with the internet

0:11:45.279,0:11:50.560
it's like at first

0:11:46.880,0:11:52.639
you kind of try to copy and paste the

0:11:50.560,0:11:54.160
the other thing to the internet like do

0:11:52.639,0:11:55.839
it the same exact way

0:11:54.160,0:11:57.920
and then you realize you have to do

0:11:55.839,0:12:00.240
things in a little bit more

0:11:57.920,0:12:02.480
native way to the internet ultimately

0:12:00.240,0:12:03.360
like absolutely i completely agree yeah

0:12:02.480,0:12:04.800
it's not like it's

0:12:03.360,0:12:06.639
the experience is not the same and we

0:12:04.800,0:12:08.399
try to replicate this like

0:12:06.639,0:12:10.240
we all know how physical events are and

0:12:08.399,0:12:11.519
we try to replicate this online

0:12:10.240,0:12:13.279
and that's never gonna work it's not

0:12:11.519,0:12:16.560
like we are wearing i don't know

0:12:13.279,0:12:17.680
beer or air so it's not like it's not

0:12:16.560,0:12:19.680
the same and it's never gonna be the

0:12:17.680,0:12:22.560
same so we need to get used to that

0:12:19.680,0:12:23.519
and you know start to start to do stuff

0:12:22.560,0:12:25.920
differently maybe

0:12:23.519,0:12:27.680
i don't know how i have no idea but i

0:12:25.920,0:12:29.360
think trying to replicate

0:12:27.680,0:12:30.959
a physical experience on the internet

0:12:29.360,0:12:32.959
it's never gonna work yeah

0:12:30.959,0:12:34.160
i think there are i think everybody's

0:12:32.959,0:12:36.160
trying to

0:12:34.160,0:12:38.079
figure it out and and i mean the whole

0:12:36.160,0:12:41.360
world is sort of trying to solve this

0:12:38.079,0:12:43.360
problem so uh hopefully

0:12:41.360,0:12:44.959
there will be you know some some good

0:12:43.360,0:12:46.480
solutions coming but

0:12:44.959,0:12:49.440
i don't think we've really figured it

0:12:46.480,0:12:50.240
out um on the uh you mentioned the dev

0:12:49.440,0:12:53.680
exchange

0:12:50.240,0:12:56.720
that you did on remote work um at the

0:12:53.680,0:12:59.279
at the live adobe live uh what kind of

0:12:56.720,0:12:59.760
topics came up when it comes to remote

0:12:59.279,0:13:01.519
work

0:12:59.760,0:13:02.800
and what type of stuff did you guys talk

0:13:01.519,0:13:05.040
about

0:13:02.800,0:13:06.880
well everybody's a remote worker now

0:13:05.040,0:13:09.360
it's like either you like it or not

0:13:06.880,0:13:12.240
everybody's a remote worker so we a lot

0:13:09.360,0:13:14.800
of people don't really know how to

0:13:12.240,0:13:16.079
separate work and their regular life

0:13:14.800,0:13:18.160
people ask about

0:13:16.079,0:13:20.320
like how do you manage your time how do

0:13:18.160,0:13:23.360
you manage your schedule how do you tell

0:13:20.320,0:13:24.639
that's my next question yeah like

0:13:23.360,0:13:25.839
how do you tell people no i'm not

0:13:24.639,0:13:27.440
available if you are seeing the

0:13:25.839,0:13:28.079
notification and they know you're at

0:13:27.440,0:13:29.920
home

0:13:28.079,0:13:32.240
so setting boundaries is really

0:13:29.920,0:13:33.920
important and it's not like

0:13:32.240,0:13:35.760
a lot of people is aware of that so

0:13:33.920,0:13:38.160
everybody tries to read online all day

0:13:35.760,0:13:40.079
long and when they're they we say

0:13:38.160,0:13:41.360
their direct message they try to answer

0:13:40.079,0:13:42.399
in less than a minute and that's not

0:13:41.360,0:13:44.000
healthy you know

0:13:42.399,0:13:46.240
if you have a schedule if you have a

0:13:44.000,0:13:46.720
work time you should respect that

0:13:46.240,0:13:48.320
because

0:13:46.720,0:13:49.839
at the end of the day if you don't sleep

0:13:48.320,0:13:51.279
well or if you don't rest

0:13:49.839,0:13:53.519
you're going to be burned down at some

0:13:51.279,0:13:56.800
point or another so everybody wants that

0:13:53.519,0:13:58.480
you know so it's again this this world

0:13:56.800,0:14:01.120
experience is not like their regular

0:13:58.480,0:14:04.079
remote working is more like a necessity

0:14:01.120,0:14:06.079
these days yeah so it's it's not like

0:14:04.079,0:14:07.199
you started working remotely because you

0:14:06.079,0:14:08.800
decided that

0:14:07.199,0:14:10.560
everybody has to start because there was

0:14:08.800,0:14:11.279
a pandemic and people was working from

0:14:10.560,0:14:13.680
home

0:14:11.279,0:14:15.440
so getting used to that is not the same

0:14:13.680,0:14:16.480
as getting used to being like a regular

0:14:15.440,0:14:18.079
remote worker

0:14:16.480,0:14:20.000
it's not the same like the situation is

0:14:18.079,0:14:21.680
not the same the context is different

0:14:20.000,0:14:23.360
everything's different but the remote

0:14:21.680,0:14:25.120
part because you have to keep working at

0:14:23.360,0:14:27.360
the end of the day

0:14:25.120,0:14:28.240
what do you do what do you tell people

0:14:27.360,0:14:31.199
on your team

0:14:28.240,0:14:31.600
at nexus and things like that uh that

0:14:31.199,0:14:34.079
are

0:14:31.600,0:14:35.440
struggling with it or how can you tell

0:14:34.079,0:14:37.680
if somebody is struggling

0:14:35.440,0:14:39.120
with it like it's a it's a hard thing to

0:14:37.680,0:14:40.480
do because you want your team members to

0:14:39.120,0:14:42.959
be responsive

0:14:40.480,0:14:43.519
so it's not like if they respond fast

0:14:42.959,0:14:45.839
you say

0:14:43.519,0:14:46.959
hey you shouldn't have responded so fast

0:14:45.839,0:14:49.120
they're going to get like positive

0:14:46.959,0:14:52.160
feedback for responding fast so

0:14:49.120,0:14:53.519
how do you be proactive about getting

0:14:52.160,0:14:55.199
encouraging your team members to take

0:14:53.519,0:14:56.800
the breaks and

0:14:55.199,0:14:59.360
things like that that's kind of hard

0:14:56.800,0:15:02.160
like i have a lot of people that are not

0:14:59.360,0:15:03.199
used to be working remotely like most of

0:15:02.160,0:15:05.760
our support team

0:15:03.199,0:15:07.040
they were in-house like at the office at

0:15:05.760,0:15:09.600
the d trade office

0:15:07.040,0:15:11.199
and everybody's working from home now so

0:15:09.600,0:15:13.120
sometimes you see people offline and you

0:15:11.199,0:15:15.199
leave a message and you see them

0:15:13.120,0:15:16.800
connecting and trying to answer and i'm

0:15:15.199,0:15:18.240
like no you don't need to answer now

0:15:16.800,0:15:19.760
this was a question for like maybe

0:15:18.240,0:15:21.440
tomorrow during your work time

0:15:19.760,0:15:23.680
the same goes to like working on

0:15:21.440,0:15:26.000
weekends it's great if you want to do it

0:15:23.680,0:15:27.440
but you don't have to ask the rest of

0:15:26.000,0:15:30.160
your team to do that too

0:15:27.440,0:15:31.680
so if i have to send an email i may i i

0:15:30.160,0:15:33.279
might be able to schedule that for

0:15:31.680,0:15:35.680
monday or maybe

0:15:33.279,0:15:37.199
send that on sunday if i need to but

0:15:35.680,0:15:39.440
everybody needs to be aware

0:15:37.199,0:15:41.360
i'm not i'm not actually expecting an

0:15:39.440,0:15:43.920
answer like an immediate answer

0:15:41.360,0:15:45.519
yes that part's really hard and right

0:15:43.920,0:15:48.000
after nexus was acquired

0:15:45.519,0:15:49.360
we we went from like i don't know 150

0:15:48.000,0:15:52.560
200 employees

0:15:49.360,0:15:54.800
to like 800 employees so the cool to us

0:15:52.560,0:15:56.480
that was a cultural shock so we are we

0:15:54.800,0:15:58.880
are still accommodating that part we are

0:15:56.480,0:16:02.000
still trying to make everybody aware

0:15:58.880,0:16:04.639
of this new culture but it's it's been

0:16:02.000,0:16:07.120
it's uh it hasn't been that simple but i

0:16:04.639,0:16:09.279
think everybody is aware of that now and

0:16:07.120,0:16:11.279
slowly people is getting used to like

0:16:09.279,0:16:12.240
work from home and separating like the

0:16:11.279,0:16:14.240
computer

0:16:12.240,0:16:16.000
and the rest of their lives you know

0:16:14.240,0:16:16.880
it's it's not easy but i think we'll get

0:16:16.000,0:16:19.519
there eventually

0:16:16.880,0:16:21.120
yeah yeah do you um for scheduling

0:16:19.519,0:16:24.240
emails do you have like a

0:16:21.120,0:16:24.959
tool that you use to schedule emails or

0:16:24.240,0:16:28.800
do you just

0:16:24.959,0:16:31.519
uh try to remember to send it later

0:16:28.800,0:16:33.040
now we have we use google suite and i

0:16:31.519,0:16:34.079
use that feature

0:16:33.040,0:16:36.000
all right yeah because they have a

0:16:34.079,0:16:36.639
native they have that yeah i remember i

0:16:36.000,0:16:38.399
used to use

0:16:36.639,0:16:40.560
so many different plugins for google

0:16:38.399,0:16:41.839
like for gmail like boomerang and all

0:16:40.560,0:16:43.519
these different things and

0:16:41.839,0:16:45.279
they finally added all that stuff native

0:16:43.519,0:16:46.880
but now i don't use i haven't used those

0:16:45.279,0:16:48.160
features anymore ever since they added

0:16:46.880,0:16:49.839
them native even though like

0:16:48.160,0:16:51.519
although i use the snooze i use the the

0:16:49.839,0:16:53.600
snooze is a good one

0:16:51.519,0:16:56.000
uh but it is pretty good and it works

0:16:53.600,0:16:57.839
and it shows

0:16:56.000,0:16:59.440
you are not expecting an answer an

0:16:57.839,0:17:01.120
immediate answer or you're not working

0:16:59.440,0:17:02.639
on the weekend because sometimes you

0:17:01.120,0:17:03.279
want to work or sometimes you need to

0:17:02.639,0:17:05.760
work

0:17:03.279,0:17:07.280
but i don't want to put that burden on

0:17:05.760,0:17:09.120
my co-workers you know

0:17:07.280,0:17:10.720
if i have to work that's my problem i

0:17:09.120,0:17:12.640
don't want everybody to feel

0:17:10.720,0:17:14.480
i don't know afraid or sad because they

0:17:12.640,0:17:14.880
aren't doing it that's not the way i

0:17:14.480,0:17:17.360
work

0:17:14.880,0:17:18.000
so i try to be polite as much as i can

0:17:17.360,0:17:21.520
and i try

0:17:18.000,0:17:23.360
to let them know or make them understand

0:17:21.520,0:17:24.799
it's not mandatory to do it you know if

0:17:23.360,0:17:26.720
you have to reach a deadline

0:17:24.799,0:17:28.400
maybe that's fine but it doesn't have to

0:17:26.720,0:17:29.120
be like that every day for the rest of

0:17:28.400,0:17:31.919
your life you know

0:17:29.120,0:17:34.480
yeah yeah yeah yeah so when it comes to

0:17:31.919,0:17:36.480
schedules i'm kind of a schedule nerd

0:17:34.480,0:17:37.919
i like to know about people's schedules

0:17:36.480,0:17:40.240
or you know

0:17:37.919,0:17:41.520
what habits you have throughout the day

0:17:40.240,0:17:43.440
i know some people are

0:17:41.520,0:17:45.520
no schedule at all i don't know how you

0:17:43.440,0:17:48.000
are but i'm curious

0:17:45.520,0:17:49.520
what your schedule looks like you try to

0:17:48.000,0:17:51.200
barbecue every day

0:17:49.520,0:17:54.160
what do you do how do you mix it up so

0:17:51.200,0:17:56.799
you can kind of stay sane

0:17:54.160,0:17:58.640
that's like sting thing is my number one

0:17:56.799,0:18:03.039
goal you spend a half hour brushing your

0:17:58.640,0:18:03.039
hair every day make sure it looks good

0:18:03.200,0:18:07.280
no but i train almost every day like

0:18:05.360,0:18:08.400
during the early morning i woke up and

0:18:07.280,0:18:11.200
go for a run

0:18:08.400,0:18:12.559
sometimes i train in a in a gym i met

0:18:11.200,0:18:15.760
here in my house

0:18:12.559,0:18:17.679
but then after i was like

0:18:15.760,0:18:19.760
i used to be the lead developer like the

0:18:17.679,0:18:20.880
magento market attack nexus but then

0:18:19.760,0:18:23.440
when i was moved to

0:18:20.880,0:18:26.160
this product management role my life is

0:18:23.440,0:18:27.679
a constant and lesson called

0:18:26.160,0:18:29.520
at first i didn't like that because

0:18:27.679,0:18:31.360
nobody's used to be like in a constant

0:18:29.520,0:18:32.880
zoom call but now i'm used to it so now

0:18:31.360,0:18:34.799
i have this really

0:18:32.880,0:18:36.240
organized calendar where people can see

0:18:34.799,0:18:38.880
when i'm busy

0:18:36.240,0:18:40.240
sometimes i actually book myself to get

0:18:38.880,0:18:42.240
some free time you know

0:18:40.240,0:18:43.520
like i didn't know that was a thing but

0:18:42.240,0:18:45.039
people they will

0:18:43.520,0:18:47.120
like book their own time in their

0:18:45.039,0:18:47.840
calendar to appear busy just to be able

0:18:47.120,0:18:49.760
to like

0:18:47.840,0:18:51.200
get some work done i thought that was

0:18:49.760,0:18:53.039
crazy but then i realized that was

0:18:51.200,0:18:56.080
really common so it's like

0:18:53.039,0:18:59.520
hey i'll do it yeah

0:18:56.080,0:19:02.080
nice and yeah yeah so

0:18:59.520,0:19:03.440
so jen uh you have a home gym and what

0:19:02.080,0:19:04.480
do you lift weights or what do you what

0:19:03.440,0:19:06.880
do you do

0:19:04.480,0:19:08.160
yeah i i used to be a rugby player when

0:19:06.880,0:19:10.559
i was a kid

0:19:08.160,0:19:12.480
maybe 15 years ago yeah i used to play

0:19:10.559,0:19:15.360
rugby i went to like the

0:19:12.480,0:19:16.559
regional i don't know local team or

0:19:15.360,0:19:18.240
something and then i used to play

0:19:16.559,0:19:18.799
handball too i went to this german

0:19:18.240,0:19:22.320
school

0:19:18.799,0:19:24.480
and i went to like the city under 20

0:19:22.320,0:19:25.520
i don't know regional team too i really

0:19:24.480,0:19:27.280
like sports

0:19:25.520,0:19:28.720
and i really believe you need to train

0:19:27.280,0:19:29.600
because the computer is going to kill

0:19:28.720,0:19:32.640
you if you don't

0:19:29.600,0:19:34.559
uh-huh like it's i i strongly believe

0:19:32.640,0:19:35.600
that like people ask me how do you work

0:19:34.559,0:19:38.720
so much and i'm like

0:19:35.600,0:19:40.640
i sleep well i eat well and i train

0:19:38.720,0:19:42.559
that's really important because if you

0:19:40.640,0:19:44.000
are not like if you are not healthy the

0:19:42.559,0:19:44.880
computer is going to screw you

0:19:44.000,0:19:46.960
like that's going to be really

0:19:44.880,0:19:49.360
problematic and i don't want to be like

0:19:46.960,0:19:50.799
35 and have a back pain or something

0:19:49.360,0:19:52.559
every day that's going to be terrible

0:19:50.799,0:19:54.480
for me yeah yeah yeah

0:19:52.559,0:19:57.440
what do you eat you mentioned you eat

0:19:54.480,0:19:59.520
well i eat almost everything like

0:19:57.440,0:20:01.440
i will i can eat pasta i can cook

0:19:59.520,0:20:02.080
barbecue i really like cooking too like

0:20:01.440,0:20:05.120
we have a

0:20:02.080,0:20:07.520
nice kitchen everything is made here

0:20:05.120,0:20:08.720
like and it's so cheap in comparison to

0:20:07.520,0:20:10.720
our countries and i'm like

0:20:08.720,0:20:13.039
okay what i'm going to eat today meat

0:20:10.720,0:20:15.200
that's it i don't need anything else

0:20:13.039,0:20:17.440
yeah what are you doing you keep carbs

0:20:15.200,0:20:20.240
do you keep carbs low

0:20:17.440,0:20:21.840
no not really i i haven't done a diet in

0:20:20.240,0:20:24.000
quite some time

0:20:21.840,0:20:26.480
i eat like [ __ ] when i travel and that's

0:20:24.000,0:20:28.559
terrible because i sometimes eat burgers

0:20:26.480,0:20:29.760
it's so hard to eat well when you travel

0:20:28.559,0:20:30.799
it's impossible i don't know what it is

0:20:29.760,0:20:32.720
it's impossible

0:20:30.799,0:20:34.720
like it's impossible and then sometimes

0:20:32.720,0:20:36.480
i go to the u.s and i'm like okay this

0:20:34.720,0:20:38.159
is a freestyle coke machine in the

0:20:36.480,0:20:39.679
office and i'm like

0:20:38.159,0:20:42.000
what am i supposed to do i'm gonna be

0:20:39.679,0:20:44.320
drinking coke all day every day

0:20:42.000,0:20:46.480
yeah i don't care but it's like one or

0:20:44.320,0:20:48.320
two weeks that completely destroys me

0:20:46.480,0:20:50.240
and then i go out with my friends like

0:20:48.320,0:20:52.159
every day to eat some pizza

0:20:50.240,0:20:53.280
and drink some beer and i'm like this is

0:20:52.159,0:20:54.880
so unhealthy

0:20:53.280,0:20:56.960
and i don't care about it this is gonna

0:20:54.880,0:21:00.320
hurt when i'm coming back home

0:20:56.960,0:21:02.000
yeah it's so hard it's like i try to i

0:21:00.320,0:21:02.480
try to keep unhealthy stuff out of the

0:21:02.000,0:21:04.960
house

0:21:02.480,0:21:07.520
but like our kids there's certain things

0:21:04.960,0:21:09.120
our kids have to eat like for example

0:21:07.520,0:21:10.799
they they like string cheese like

0:21:09.120,0:21:12.799
whenever you have kids you just

0:21:10.799,0:21:14.080
you always have little string cheese for

0:21:12.799,0:21:15.919
them to snack on

0:21:14.080,0:21:17.919
and we stopped getting them for a while

0:21:15.919,0:21:20.000
and then my wife got him again

0:21:17.919,0:21:22.240
so now whenever i see him boom boom boom

0:21:20.000,0:21:22.240
boom boom

0:21:24.720,0:21:29.360
i try that too like we have

0:21:27.760,0:21:31.440
we have alfajores here which is

0:21:29.360,0:21:34.240
basically a really small cake

0:21:31.440,0:21:35.039
which is wrapped in an individual size

0:21:34.240,0:21:37.520
serving

0:21:35.039,0:21:38.960
which is great but it's so unhealthy and

0:21:37.520,0:21:41.039
i i love that stuff

0:21:38.960,0:21:42.799
but then i simply stopped buying that

0:21:41.039,0:21:43.760
you know because i'm an adult i can buy

0:21:42.799,0:21:46.000
anything i want

0:21:43.760,0:21:47.520
but then i'm also an adult and i have to

0:21:46.000,0:21:50.000
deal with the consequences so

0:21:47.520,0:21:51.440
i try to stop doing that but it hasn't

0:21:50.000,0:21:53.200
been that easy it's been

0:21:51.440,0:21:55.679
it's been hard because i don't control

0:21:53.200,0:21:57.520
myself that good so when i'm busy or

0:21:55.679,0:21:59.840
when i'm like i don't know stress

0:21:57.520,0:22:01.200
i'll go eat something and it's gonna be

0:21:59.840,0:22:03.200
extremely unhealthy

0:22:01.200,0:22:04.799
but it's it's the way it is you have to

0:22:03.200,0:22:06.960
deal with that stuff and you have to

0:22:04.799,0:22:10.960
cope with this existence so it's

0:22:06.960,0:22:14.159
what whenever i see uh damien colota's

0:22:10.960,0:22:18.000
pictures of the barbecue yeah man he's

0:22:14.159,0:22:18.000
he's as soon as an artist

0:22:18.559,0:22:21.600
there are two different type of people

0:22:20.159,0:22:25.360
here people

0:22:21.600,0:22:27.679
so people will start

0:22:25.360,0:22:29.600
doing the barbecues with like child but

0:22:27.679,0:22:31.600
damian he will do that with like

0:22:29.600,0:22:33.440
hard wood and that's a completely

0:22:31.600,0:22:36.000
different story he's basically a chef

0:22:33.440,0:22:37.440
if you ask me like i know how he cooks

0:22:36.000,0:22:39.360
i've seen him

0:22:37.440,0:22:40.799
but it's like he's at a different level

0:22:39.360,0:22:44.159
i'm here but he's like

0:22:40.799,0:22:48.240
way over here like that guy's incredible

0:22:44.159,0:22:50.240
i'm here you're here he's way up here

0:22:48.240,0:22:52.640
look at his way up on the chain like

0:22:50.240,0:22:56.400
he's so big

0:22:52.640,0:22:58.640
so uh so magento one safe harbor

0:22:56.400,0:22:59.600
i'm very curious to talk about this

0:22:58.640,0:23:02.960
nexus has

0:22:59.600,0:23:06.799
a magenta one safe harbor harbor program

0:23:02.960,0:23:08.640
uh so how does it work pci compliance

0:23:06.799,0:23:10.559
we've seen a lot of discussions about

0:23:08.640,0:23:13.039
pci compliance

0:23:10.559,0:23:13.840
um you guys have merchants that are live

0:23:13.039,0:23:17.360
on it

0:23:13.840,0:23:19.840
how's how's all that working out so

0:23:17.360,0:23:20.720
here's the thing i don't like magento

0:23:19.840,0:23:23.120
one at all

0:23:20.720,0:23:24.640
like i made my like at least half my

0:23:23.120,0:23:26.880
career on top of

0:23:24.640,0:23:28.640
yeah it's like i don't like using old

0:23:26.880,0:23:29.520
software but then on the other hand i

0:23:28.640,0:23:32.799
understand people

0:23:29.520,0:23:34.000
still using that so it's it's a really

0:23:32.799,0:23:35.679
hard thing to balance

0:23:34.000,0:23:37.039
it's not like it's going to be up to me

0:23:35.679,0:23:38.799
to be like okay we are not going to

0:23:37.039,0:23:39.679
support this any longer because a really

0:23:38.799,0:23:42.000
big chunk

0:23:39.679,0:23:43.919
of nexus customers are still a magento

0:23:42.000,0:23:46.799
one but then on the other hand

0:23:43.919,0:23:48.080
i don't think using an end-of-life

0:23:46.799,0:23:50.640
software is wise

0:23:48.080,0:23:52.320
and ex and it's extremely unhealthy

0:23:50.640,0:23:53.360
because people is processing credit card

0:23:52.320,0:23:55.760
payments on that

0:23:53.360,0:23:57.120
so it's not like there's no

0:23:55.760,0:23:59.120
transactional

0:23:57.120,0:24:00.480
there's no transactions going on or that

0:23:59.120,0:24:03.440
kind of stuff it's it's actually

0:24:00.480,0:24:04.000
risky you know so it's i don't know the

0:24:03.440,0:24:05.760
the product

0:24:04.000,0:24:07.360
we created was basically to give

0:24:05.760,0:24:08.960
merchants some more time

0:24:07.360,0:24:11.039
those merchants were not yet ready to

0:24:08.960,0:24:12.559
migrate and we tried to make some

0:24:11.039,0:24:14.320
security features over there like the

0:24:12.559,0:24:15.600
malware scan the web application

0:24:14.320,0:24:18.159
firewall

0:24:15.600,0:24:19.760
like the station size so people don't

0:24:18.159,0:24:20.400
don't test in production and then they

0:24:19.760,0:24:22.480
backport

0:24:20.400,0:24:24.480
their back product patches and it's been

0:24:22.480,0:24:27.360
great it's been pretty easy

0:24:24.480,0:24:27.760
i've been working with openmesh quite a

0:24:27.360,0:24:29.440
lot

0:24:27.760,0:24:32.240
we've been doing our own and security

0:24:29.440,0:24:34.240
analysis we still have probably the

0:24:32.240,0:24:35.840
largest magento customer base out there

0:24:34.240,0:24:37.919
so it's not like we don't get to see

0:24:35.840,0:24:41.039
what's going on in the space

0:24:37.919,0:24:42.799
but i would it's it's i would rather see

0:24:41.039,0:24:44.880
more people working towards a

0:24:42.799,0:24:46.559
re-platforming or a migration

0:24:44.880,0:24:47.919
but a lot of the people like a lot of

0:24:46.559,0:24:49.360
the customers we see

0:24:47.919,0:24:51.600
they aren't going to migrate before the

0:24:49.360,0:24:52.240
year ends or maybe even before the next

0:24:51.600,0:24:54.240
year

0:24:52.240,0:24:55.279
and i don't like that to be honest it's

0:24:54.240,0:24:57.760
it's not great

0:24:55.279,0:24:59.279
like i don't want to be associated with

0:24:57.760,0:25:00.880
an old piece of software i don't want to

0:24:59.279,0:25:02.240
work with legacy software

0:25:00.880,0:25:03.679
but on the other hand you need to take

0:25:02.240,0:25:04.799
into consideration these people are

0:25:03.679,0:25:06.080
trying to make an end

0:25:04.799,0:25:07.679
they're selling online they are not

0:25:06.080,0:25:08.960
multimedia there are companies who care

0:25:07.679,0:25:10.559
about the technology

0:25:08.960,0:25:12.240
they're just trying to sell something

0:25:10.559,0:25:15.360
online and maybe they have i don't know

0:25:12.240,0:25:17.520
100 skus and they don't have the money

0:25:15.360,0:25:19.440
to do a complete migration to magento 2.

0:25:17.520,0:25:21.039
they are not interested in shopify so

0:25:19.440,0:25:23.039
it's

0:25:21.039,0:25:24.799
it's a really it's a really complex

0:25:23.039,0:25:26.400
complicated thing to balance you know

0:25:24.799,0:25:27.520
yeah and people come to me and ask me

0:25:26.400,0:25:29.919
about pci

0:25:27.520,0:25:31.600
and i'm not qsa it's not like i can tell

0:25:29.919,0:25:33.760
you yes you can be compliant

0:25:31.600,0:25:35.919
if you do this and that nobody really

0:25:33.760,0:25:39.279
can say it exactly i mean nobody can say

0:25:35.919,0:25:42.400
for sure except for those uh analysts

0:25:39.279,0:25:44.640
and even then yeah we did so it it's

0:25:42.400,0:25:45.440
that's really complicated too like pci

0:25:44.640,0:25:46.799
is great

0:25:45.440,0:25:48.640
if you think about it because it's one

0:25:46.799,0:25:51.279
of the very few guidelines

0:25:48.640,0:25:52.640
that actually govern the online payments

0:25:51.279,0:25:53.279
and people is actually afraid of that

0:25:52.640,0:25:55.840
because

0:25:53.279,0:25:57.120
if you don't do that if you are if you

0:25:55.840,0:25:57.520
if you have a breach you're going to be

0:25:57.120,0:25:59.200
fine

0:25:57.520,0:26:01.200
and you're going to be fine like big

0:25:59.200,0:26:03.600
times defines rb

0:26:01.200,0:26:05.200
so i think that's great but then pci is

0:26:03.600,0:26:07.919
extremely outdated

0:26:05.200,0:26:09.120
meaning nobody consider open source when

0:26:07.919,0:26:11.039
they wrote pci

0:26:09.120,0:26:13.520
you know so there are a couple of things

0:26:11.039,0:26:15.840
that are not that clear like pci 6.2

0:26:13.520,0:26:17.600
says something like you need to prove

0:26:15.840,0:26:18.400
you're installing vendor supplied

0:26:17.600,0:26:20.799
patches

0:26:18.400,0:26:22.240
in a time frame in like 30 days and i'm

0:26:20.799,0:26:24.799
like okay what does

0:26:22.240,0:26:26.880
vendor mean and nobody can answer that

0:26:24.799,0:26:28.159
so it is magento the vendor is adobe

0:26:26.880,0:26:30.159
vendor if this is an open source

0:26:28.159,0:26:30.720
software who is the vendor what happens

0:26:30.159,0:26:32.640
to

0:26:30.720,0:26:34.159
home baked software there are a lot of

0:26:32.640,0:26:34.880
questions that are that don't have an

0:26:34.159,0:26:37.039
answer

0:26:34.880,0:26:38.480
and it's that's because this this

0:26:37.039,0:26:39.760
guideline this

0:26:38.480,0:26:41.760
i don't know why you want to call it

0:26:39.760,0:26:43.600
it's kind of old you know and there are

0:26:41.760,0:26:45.279
new frameworks that are taking this into

0:26:43.600,0:26:48.159
consideration but again

0:26:45.279,0:26:49.919
those are not the ones in place so it's

0:26:48.159,0:26:52.080
it's a really interesting discussion and

0:26:49.919,0:26:55.360
we got a partnership with stripe

0:26:52.080,0:26:57.600
so anybody using nexus and wanting to

0:26:55.360,0:26:58.400
still pass their pci assessments can use

0:26:57.600,0:27:00.240
stripe

0:26:58.400,0:27:02.400
and they will take our at the station of

0:27:00.240,0:27:04.480
compliance and our safe fiber

0:27:02.400,0:27:06.159
as a proof of i don't know pci

0:27:04.480,0:27:08.080
compliance they are still

0:27:06.159,0:27:09.679
they are still doing the assessments but

0:27:08.080,0:27:10.240
we did this partnership with strife and

0:27:09.679,0:27:12.159
it worked

0:27:10.240,0:27:13.520
a lot of people is using that but again

0:27:12.159,0:27:15.679
what's going to happen in one year

0:27:13.520,0:27:16.720
or two years are they gonna keep

0:27:15.679,0:27:19.120
supporting that

0:27:16.720,0:27:20.159
i don't know and i don't want those guys

0:27:19.120,0:27:22.399
to stay there

0:27:20.159,0:27:24.000
for two more years you know it's it's a

0:27:22.399,0:27:26.480
terrible idea

0:27:24.000,0:27:27.279
but again like if we continue down this

0:27:26.480,0:27:30.480
path and

0:27:27.279,0:27:32.000
the pandemic is still here i can't go in

0:27:30.480,0:27:33.840
there and tell this merchant hey

0:27:32.000,0:27:35.120
you need to go out and you need to

0:27:33.840,0:27:36.799
change your platform and you need to

0:27:35.120,0:27:38.640
spend i don't know 150k

0:27:36.799,0:27:40.480
building a new site that's never gonna

0:27:38.640,0:27:43.600
fly so it's

0:27:40.480,0:27:46.000
it's a really complex balance in there

0:27:43.600,0:27:47.520
and i'm still unsure how to how to

0:27:46.000,0:27:49.679
balance that to be honest

0:27:47.520,0:27:51.840
the product is great we have quite a few

0:27:49.679,0:27:53.760
customers we are probably the largest

0:27:51.840,0:27:55.600
magento one in the flight service out

0:27:53.760,0:27:57.360
there but i don't like that i really

0:27:55.600,0:28:00.720
don't like that it's

0:27:57.360,0:28:03.760
it's got to be a magento too yeah yeah

0:28:00.720,0:28:04.240
exactly yeah that's that that makes

0:28:03.760,0:28:06.159
sense

0:28:04.240,0:28:07.440
that makes sense so going fast forward

0:28:06.159,0:28:11.200
to more

0:28:07.440,0:28:13.679
uh modern software uh react-a-con

0:28:11.200,0:28:14.480
happened recently uh there are some

0:28:13.679,0:28:17.520
great talks

0:28:14.480,0:28:20.080
uh how did you like it overall i thought

0:28:17.520,0:28:21.440
the haiva theme by willem wigman looked

0:28:20.080,0:28:23.919
really interesting

0:28:21.440,0:28:25.679
and a lot of the other talks so what did

0:28:23.919,0:28:28.000
you what did you think

0:28:25.679,0:28:29.039
i'm gonna start by saying i love gc like

0:28:28.000,0:28:31.919
everything he's doing

0:28:29.039,0:28:33.760
i love it he's great and he's been like

0:28:31.919,0:28:34.720
advancing this business and this

0:28:33.760,0:28:36.960
ecosystem

0:28:34.720,0:28:38.399
a lot lately so he organized an

0:28:36.960,0:28:39.440
incredibly good event and i'm really

0:28:38.399,0:28:42.000
happy for him

0:28:39.440,0:28:43.600
and i really think he's by far one of

0:28:42.000,0:28:44.880
the most interesting personalities in

0:28:43.600,0:28:46.799
this ecosystem

0:28:44.880,0:28:49.279
and i actually want to see some of those

0:28:46.799,0:28:50.480
talks i saw hydra that was incredibly

0:28:49.279,0:28:52.799
good

0:28:50.480,0:28:54.399
i like i think i saw this on twitter

0:28:52.799,0:28:56.399
somebody was comparing that to like the

0:28:54.399,0:28:57.760
old magenta one front end because of how

0:28:56.399,0:29:00.320
fresh it felt

0:28:57.760,0:29:02.240
and that's probably true but it's i

0:29:00.320,0:29:02.960
don't know pwa on headless is a

0:29:02.240,0:29:04.799
completely

0:29:02.960,0:29:07.600
like a completely different subject and

0:29:04.799,0:29:10.640
i'm not a frontal engineer like

0:29:07.600,0:29:12.240
i'm not a product manager anymore

0:29:10.640,0:29:13.760
i didn't even realize that until i

0:29:12.240,0:29:15.440
looked at your linkedin today

0:29:13.760,0:29:17.039
that you were been a product manager for

0:29:15.440,0:29:20.080
a year now

0:29:17.039,0:29:20.480
and yeah yeah it's funny now it's really

0:29:20.080,0:29:22.720
fun

0:29:20.480,0:29:23.520
like i'm trying to bring pwa to the

0:29:22.720,0:29:25.520
masses

0:29:23.520,0:29:28.000
but the second you go into any of this

0:29:25.520,0:29:30.159
project documentation you'll be like

0:29:28.000,0:29:31.919
okay this is really hard like i need to

0:29:30.159,0:29:32.799
know a lot of stuff to be able to set

0:29:31.919,0:29:35.360
this up

0:29:32.799,0:29:36.320
like let's say dd let's say view

0:29:35.360,0:29:38.240
storefront

0:29:36.320,0:29:39.520
some of those tools they're incredibly

0:29:38.240,0:29:42.480
rich they work

0:29:39.520,0:29:43.840
extremely well but then you need to

0:29:42.480,0:29:45.520
really understand

0:29:43.840,0:29:47.440
how to configure that how to run that

0:29:45.520,0:29:49.360
and how to maintain that in production

0:29:47.440,0:29:51.039
and that's not that easy so what i've

0:29:49.360,0:29:51.840
been trying to do lately at next is

0:29:51.039,0:29:54.799
trying to support

0:29:51.840,0:29:56.320
as many pd implementations as i can and

0:29:54.799,0:29:58.320
that hasn't been that easy it's been

0:29:56.320,0:29:58.960
really proactive because pwa studio is

0:29:58.320,0:30:01.440
great

0:29:58.960,0:30:03.039
scandi pwa is great said commerce

0:30:01.440,0:30:04.480
release their own stuff

0:30:03.039,0:30:06.399
there are a couple of really interesting

0:30:04.480,0:30:08.320
projects but some of them

0:30:06.399,0:30:10.000
they are so javascript oriented that is

0:30:08.320,0:30:10.640
it's just crazy javascript the

0:30:10.000,0:30:14.000
javascript

0:30:10.640,0:30:16.720
ecosystem is wild like yeah

0:30:14.000,0:30:17.760
it's why i do like you have to you have

0:30:16.720,0:30:19.600
to understand like

0:30:17.760,0:30:21.520
a hundred different concepts you have to

0:30:19.600,0:30:23.039
run i don't know 10 different softwares

0:30:21.520,0:30:25.120
it's not like php where

0:30:23.039,0:30:26.640
you have to put your file in the php

0:30:25.120,0:30:28.559
server and that's pretty much it

0:30:26.640,0:30:31.039
you know maybe i'm used to that and

0:30:28.559,0:30:33.039
apache php and my sql is not that

0:30:31.039,0:30:34.640
it's not that simple but when i go in

0:30:33.039,0:30:36.960
there and i see these

0:30:34.640,0:30:38.880
applications require a middleware and

0:30:36.960,0:30:40.640
you have to keep that running with pm2

0:30:38.880,0:30:41.840
or maybe you have to expose a random

0:30:40.640,0:30:44.080
port to the internet

0:30:41.840,0:30:45.840
for their api middleware it's just it's

0:30:44.080,0:30:47.919
just so complicated

0:30:45.840,0:30:49.440
that i i don't even know where to start

0:30:47.919,0:30:50.399
and if i don't know where to start and

0:30:49.440,0:30:51.840
i'm like

0:30:50.399,0:30:53.440
i'm knowledgeable i know about this

0:30:51.840,0:30:55.440
stuff i know about some of this stuff i

0:30:53.440,0:30:57.039
can't even imagine what a merchant feels

0:30:55.440,0:30:58.960
you know and i've been trying to bring

0:30:57.039,0:31:00.960
these two masses but

0:30:58.960,0:31:02.480
to be honest the adaptation we are

0:31:00.960,0:31:04.480
seeing is not great

0:31:02.480,0:31:06.240
like everybody's talking about this but

0:31:04.480,0:31:07.120
i don't think everybody's using this to

0:31:06.240,0:31:09.679
be honest yeah

0:31:07.120,0:31:11.440
yeah i'd like you know i i don't i

0:31:09.679,0:31:12.480
haven't done magento stuff myself but i

0:31:11.440,0:31:16.000
use like uh

0:31:12.480,0:31:16.399
laravel with with vue and the way that

0:31:16.000,0:31:19.679
it's

0:31:16.399,0:31:20.559
baked in is pretty easy like it mostly

0:31:19.679,0:31:22.640
just works

0:31:20.559,0:31:25.760
if they have a wrapper around webpack

0:31:22.640,0:31:28.880
which compiles stuff using npm

0:31:25.760,0:31:31.519
and it mostly just works and it's uh

0:31:28.880,0:31:32.720
pretty easy i think that's the ideal

0:31:31.519,0:31:35.919
case

0:31:32.720,0:31:39.039
where it it's it's easy to set up

0:31:35.919,0:31:41.039
they've created abstractions that um

0:31:39.039,0:31:43.200
are easy to use you don't have to get

0:31:41.039,0:31:45.600
under the hood if you don't want to

0:31:43.200,0:31:47.600
but i don't know seems like that's not

0:31:45.600,0:31:48.799
the case a lot of times

0:31:47.600,0:31:50.960
with a different framework i don't know

0:31:48.799,0:31:52.799
like here's the thing

0:31:50.960,0:31:55.279
next is a back-end company we've been

0:31:52.799,0:31:57.360
doing php we've been doing lamp stack

0:31:55.279,0:31:59.760
for i don't know two decades now

0:31:57.360,0:32:01.679
and when you go into the javascript

0:31:59.760,0:32:03.440
ecosystem

0:32:01.679,0:32:05.279
a lot of these applications they require

0:32:03.440,0:32:07.519
a middleware and keeping that

0:32:05.279,0:32:09.120
running it's not that simple like for

0:32:07.519,0:32:11.200
example view storefront they have their

0:32:09.120,0:32:13.200
own connector which is great because

0:32:11.200,0:32:15.120
the graphql and the rest of the apis in

0:32:13.200,0:32:16.080
magento they are not as extensive as

0:32:15.120,0:32:17.440
they should

0:32:16.080,0:32:18.880
but then they create their own

0:32:17.440,0:32:19.440
middleware and you have to keep that

0:32:18.880,0:32:20.799
running

0:32:19.440,0:32:22.640
and that's not really simple if you

0:32:20.799,0:32:23.679
think about that from like a lamp

0:32:22.640,0:32:24.880
perspective

0:32:23.679,0:32:26.960
and that's one of the things we are

0:32:24.880,0:32:29.519
trying to improve like actually running

0:32:26.960,0:32:32.080
those processes is actually

0:32:29.519,0:32:33.760
making those middlewares run fast and be

0:32:32.080,0:32:36.159
stable it's not that easy

0:32:33.760,0:32:38.080
but then you go to pwa studio and they

0:32:36.159,0:32:39.600
consume the information directly from

0:32:38.080,0:32:41.440
the graphql endpoint

0:32:39.600,0:32:43.039
and that's great because you don't need

0:32:41.440,0:32:45.760
extra software you can just

0:32:43.039,0:32:46.880
spin magento instance the slash graphql

0:32:45.760,0:32:49.519
is already there

0:32:46.880,0:32:50.240
and then you compile your pwa studio

0:32:49.519,0:32:52.880
project like

0:32:50.240,0:32:53.360
vinia or xenia and you're like this

0:32:52.880,0:32:55.760
works

0:32:53.360,0:32:57.600
that's it and it's great so that's one

0:32:55.760,0:32:59.679
of the limitations we have these days

0:32:57.600,0:33:01.760
if your pwa implementation requires a

0:32:59.679,0:33:02.559
middleware in the form of a javascript

0:33:01.760,0:33:04.640
server

0:33:02.559,0:33:06.480
or in the form of a server exposed to

0:33:04.640,0:33:07.120
the internet that's going to be a no-go

0:33:06.480,0:33:08.960
for now

0:33:07.120,0:33:10.240
because i'm trying to well i'm actually

0:33:08.960,0:33:12.159
working on some new

0:33:10.240,0:33:13.840
javascript containers but it's it's

0:33:12.159,0:33:14.720
gonna be a while until we are able to

0:33:13.840,0:33:16.159
support that

0:33:14.720,0:33:18.080
and i think this is true for a lot of

0:33:16.159,0:33:19.679
companies out there like if you go to

0:33:18.080,0:33:22.080
magento commerce cloud

0:33:19.679,0:33:24.559
the only way they have to support pwa

0:33:22.080,0:33:26.000
studio is using the app world php module

0:33:24.559,0:33:27.200
not even the javascript module the

0:33:26.000,0:33:30.240
useful development

0:33:27.200,0:33:31.440
so it's this is not easy for for most of

0:33:30.240,0:33:34.480
these

0:33:31.440,0:33:37.039
old school hosting companies so i think

0:33:34.480,0:33:37.760
that might change in the near future but

0:33:37.039,0:33:40.080
it's

0:33:37.760,0:33:41.440
i don't really know to be honest yeah

0:33:40.080,0:33:43.600
and when it comes to

0:33:41.440,0:33:45.120
infrastructure for pwa i saw that you

0:33:43.600,0:33:48.880
have a webinar

0:33:45.120,0:33:51.600
coming up on that in espanol um

0:33:48.880,0:33:53.120
but so what uh what are some of the

0:33:51.600,0:33:54.559
considerations i mean i know you already

0:33:53.120,0:33:56.720
started to talk about

0:33:54.559,0:33:58.399
uh the middleware that you have to deal

0:33:56.720,0:33:59.679
with but uh what are some of the

0:33:58.399,0:34:01.120
considerations when it comes to

0:33:59.679,0:34:03.120
infrastructure

0:34:01.120,0:34:05.440
uh that people might not be thinking

0:34:03.120,0:34:06.960
about for

0:34:05.440,0:34:09.119
this pwa a really good question and i'm

0:34:06.960,0:34:11.119
gonna start by saying that

0:34:09.119,0:34:13.200
never really understands you shouldn't

0:34:11.119,0:34:15.040
be compiling or building your stuff

0:34:13.200,0:34:17.119
in our production servers there are

0:34:15.040,0:34:18.320
times when people reach to us and ask me

0:34:17.119,0:34:21.119
to install i don't know

0:34:18.320,0:34:22.480
google chrome headless in our production

0:34:21.119,0:34:24.560
servers and i'm like

0:34:22.480,0:34:26.639
that doesn't make any sense that's not a

0:34:24.560,0:34:27.679
runtime dependency that's a build

0:34:26.639,0:34:29.839
dependency

0:34:27.679,0:34:31.440
and that's a really big difference you

0:34:29.839,0:34:32.240
need a bunch of stuff to build your

0:34:31.440,0:34:33.520
applications

0:34:32.240,0:34:35.599
but you don't need that stuff to

0:34:33.520,0:34:37.040
actually run that application like the

0:34:35.599,0:34:39.119
resulting

0:34:37.040,0:34:40.159
the the results when you build pwa

0:34:39.119,0:34:42.079
studio is

0:34:40.159,0:34:44.639
being a storefront and that's basically

0:34:42.079,0:34:46.720
javascript css and html

0:34:44.639,0:34:48.560
and that's all you need you don't need i

0:34:46.720,0:34:50.960
don't know npm or

0:34:48.560,0:34:53.119
yarn to actually run this application

0:34:50.960,0:34:55.359
you only need those tools to build

0:34:53.119,0:34:56.639
the application so what most of the

0:34:55.359,0:34:59.119
people need is a build

0:34:56.639,0:35:00.800
server you might need a development

0:34:59.119,0:35:02.960
server you might need a staging server

0:35:00.800,0:35:04.960
but in production you don't need to load

0:35:02.960,0:35:06.720
all these build dependencies because

0:35:04.960,0:35:07.839
not only it's expensive and it's

0:35:06.720,0:35:08.880
dangerous because you are not

0:35:07.839,0:35:11.599
maintaining that

0:35:08.880,0:35:13.040
but you don't need that to run your site

0:35:11.599,0:35:15.040
and that's a really big thing

0:35:13.040,0:35:16.079
nobody really understands people will

0:35:15.040,0:35:17.920
ask me if they can

0:35:16.079,0:35:19.680
run mesh pack in our servers and i'm

0:35:17.920,0:35:21.760
like why

0:35:19.680,0:35:24.000
why would you run that in a production

0:35:21.760,0:35:25.839
server it doesn't work like that

0:35:24.000,0:35:27.680
you run that locally you run that in a

0:35:25.839,0:35:28.240
station server you run that in a build

0:35:27.680,0:35:30.000
server

0:35:28.240,0:35:32.079
and then you transfer your resulting

0:35:30.000,0:35:34.160
artifacts to production you do deploy

0:35:32.079,0:35:35.680
and that's it you know you don't need to

0:35:34.160,0:35:37.200
build this stuff in your production

0:35:35.680,0:35:37.680
servers and that's something i would

0:35:37.200,0:35:40.880
like

0:35:37.680,0:35:43.440
more people to understand you know yeah

0:35:40.880,0:35:44.079
yeah that makes sense um because then

0:35:43.440,0:35:46.160
you're building

0:35:44.079,0:35:47.520
in in production you got a whole lot of

0:35:46.160,0:35:51.440
stuff to deal with

0:35:47.520,0:35:55.119
um i saw you retweeted uh lars uh pwa

0:35:51.440,0:35:56.640
scaffolding extension uh is amazing like

0:35:55.119,0:35:58.720
he's doing a great work like

0:35:56.640,0:36:00.079
he he reminds me of mario's like

0:35:58.720,0:36:03.839
remember the ultimate

0:36:00.079,0:36:04.480
creator that's like that cut my workload

0:36:03.839,0:36:06.240
in half

0:36:04.480,0:36:08.560
a couple of years ago and i was like

0:36:06.240,0:36:10.800
dude i love you marius i love you

0:36:08.560,0:36:12.640
like you made my life so much easier and

0:36:10.800,0:36:15.200
then i see lars doing the same

0:36:12.640,0:36:16.640
and i'm like this is great like more and

0:36:15.200,0:36:19.040
more people is going to adopt this

0:36:16.640,0:36:20.560
because it's really simple to create

0:36:19.040,0:36:22.480
like a skeleton for a module you don't

0:36:20.560,0:36:22.960
need to like copy the classes you don't

0:36:22.480,0:36:24.480
need to

0:36:22.960,0:36:26.640
have your own template you can run a

0:36:24.480,0:36:29.440
couple of that's pretty much it

0:36:26.640,0:36:30.480
i thought that was genius like yeah yeah

0:36:29.440,0:36:31.839
that's incredible

0:36:30.480,0:36:33.599
it's funny i'm gonna i'm gonna get them

0:36:31.839,0:36:34.320
on the podcast soon and talk about it

0:36:33.599,0:36:37.280
and stuff and

0:36:34.320,0:36:38.800
um it's been uh interesting because i've

0:36:37.280,0:36:41.040
been wondering how

0:36:38.800,0:36:42.400
the what the extensibility model was

0:36:41.040,0:36:45.119
going to look like

0:36:42.400,0:36:45.680
for pwa without really understanding it

0:36:45.119,0:36:49.119
very well

0:36:45.680,0:36:50.800
understanding magento's extension model

0:36:49.119,0:36:52.560
but so that's something i've been trying

0:36:50.800,0:36:53.280
to understand and i've done simple

0:36:52.560,0:36:55.359
things like

0:36:53.280,0:36:57.599
i've used view components to install

0:36:55.359,0:36:58.800
like an algolia search into a larger

0:36:57.599,0:37:01.280
application so

0:36:58.800,0:37:02.160
i'm i sort of have an idea for how it'll

0:37:01.280,0:37:04.160
work but

0:37:02.160,0:37:05.680
i've been interested to kind of better

0:37:04.160,0:37:07.839
understand that but

0:37:05.680,0:37:09.200
uh yeah he's been doing some pretty

0:37:07.839,0:37:11.839
interesting work

0:37:09.200,0:37:13.359
you know yeah absolutely and i have like

0:37:11.839,0:37:14.400
i'm actually concerned about the

0:37:13.359,0:37:16.640
extensibility

0:37:14.400,0:37:18.960
not like the pwa story or this

0:37:16.640,0:37:21.280
implementation extensibility but

0:37:18.960,0:37:23.760
how server are going to be developing

0:37:21.280,0:37:25.839
like pwa compatible extensions because

0:37:23.760,0:37:27.520
let's say you are a payment provider you

0:37:25.839,0:37:29.200
can do the magento stuff and be like

0:37:27.520,0:37:31.040
okay this works with magento but that's

0:37:29.200,0:37:32.880
not gonna work out of the box with like

0:37:31.040,0:37:34.960
pwa so you need to take that into

0:37:32.880,0:37:37.440
consideration you need to expose

0:37:34.960,0:37:38.400
most of your stuff through graphql or

0:37:37.440,0:37:40.560
any other api

0:37:38.400,0:37:41.920
so i think that's going to be a blocker

0:37:40.560,0:37:42.960
because most of these accenture

0:37:41.920,0:37:45.839
providers

0:37:42.960,0:37:46.480
they are not developing with pwa in mind

0:37:45.839,0:37:48.320
you know

0:37:46.480,0:37:50.000
sometimes they do stuff that simply

0:37:48.320,0:37:52.400
works sometimes they

0:37:50.000,0:37:54.640
create some api endpoints but sometimes

0:37:52.400,0:37:56.480
it's simply it's not considered you know

0:37:54.640,0:37:58.480
and that's going to be problematic and i

0:37:56.480,0:37:59.920
don't know how that's going to work out

0:37:58.480,0:38:01.680
yeah i think they're going to have to

0:37:59.920,0:38:03.280
have api endpoints

0:38:01.680,0:38:04.720
and then maybe they're going to have to

0:38:03.280,0:38:07.040
ship a react

0:38:04.720,0:38:09.839
component a view component a few

0:38:07.040,0:38:11.920
different types of components which then

0:38:09.839,0:38:13.920
as the site developer you're probably

0:38:11.920,0:38:15.280
going to have to copy those components

0:38:13.920,0:38:16.560
into your code

0:38:15.280,0:38:18.480
i don't think they can be loaded

0:38:16.560,0:38:19.760
dynamically i mean i don't really

0:38:18.480,0:38:21.359
i don't really know but it'll be

0:38:19.760,0:38:22.160
interesting to kind of better understand

0:38:21.359,0:38:25.440
that

0:38:22.160,0:38:27.119
um kind of kind of reminds me of the os

0:38:25.440,0:38:28.800
commerce days where you have to copy and

0:38:27.119,0:38:32.000
paste stuff in

0:38:28.800,0:38:33.920
to get extensions and stuff going

0:38:32.000,0:38:36.480
yeah that stuff is not going to be easy

0:38:33.920,0:38:38.960
and the more extension providers that

0:38:36.480,0:38:39.760
are developing with like graphql and pwa

0:38:38.960,0:38:42.079
in mind

0:38:39.760,0:38:43.520
the better but i don't know how extended

0:38:42.079,0:38:45.440
that is these days

0:38:43.520,0:38:46.960
and that kind of worries me because if

0:38:45.440,0:38:49.520
we want people to adopt

0:38:46.960,0:38:51.119
pwa we need to give them like not only

0:38:49.520,0:38:52.800
the tools and the resources but the

0:38:51.119,0:38:54.320
extensibility and the extensions we

0:38:52.800,0:38:55.839
already have for magento 2

0:38:54.320,0:38:57.599
because if they have to build everything

0:38:55.839,0:38:59.599
from scratch by themselves

0:38:57.599,0:39:02.400
that's going to cost them time and money

0:38:59.599,0:39:05.280
and we are trying to like

0:39:02.400,0:39:06.480
i think most of these pwa tools are are

0:39:05.280,0:39:09.200
being defined or

0:39:06.480,0:39:11.040
defined themselves in a position from

0:39:09.200,0:39:11.760
the current magento one magento to

0:39:11.040,0:39:13.839
front-end

0:39:11.760,0:39:15.119
and that's not great you know we we need

0:39:13.839,0:39:16.800
to

0:39:15.119,0:39:19.440
like i really like hydra because it

0:39:16.800,0:39:21.200
feels simple and extensible but i don't

0:39:19.440,0:39:22.480
feel the same about the rest of the pwa

0:39:21.200,0:39:24.720
implementations

0:39:22.480,0:39:26.320
like it's it requires extra work to make

0:39:24.720,0:39:29.440
your stuff work with that

0:39:26.320,0:39:31.839
and that's not great if you ask me

0:39:29.440,0:39:33.839
when it comes to magento 2 uh

0:39:31.839,0:39:36.320
contribution in general

0:39:33.839,0:39:37.200
um i think i remember were you a

0:39:36.320,0:39:39.920
maintainer

0:39:37.200,0:39:40.960
at one point yeah are you still in my

0:39:39.920,0:39:44.240
container yeah okay

0:39:40.960,0:39:45.520
okay so um i've talked to some people

0:39:44.240,0:39:48.480
about whether

0:39:45.520,0:39:50.160
contribution is up in the community or

0:39:48.480,0:39:52.400
is it down are people

0:39:50.160,0:39:54.320
is the community contributing more or

0:39:52.400,0:39:56.160
less than they used to

0:39:54.320,0:39:57.920
the thing with lars is a great example

0:39:56.160,0:39:59.520
of community contribution right it

0:39:57.920,0:40:01.200
reminds you of like the marius stuff and

0:39:59.520,0:40:04.000
like all this other stuff

0:40:01.200,0:40:05.520
but like do you think there's more

0:40:04.000,0:40:08.480
contribution now or

0:40:05.520,0:40:09.599
less what's your feeling i don't really

0:40:08.480,0:40:11.119
know the answer to that

0:40:09.599,0:40:12.960
i think the magenta community

0:40:11.119,0:40:15.440
engineering team released a new

0:40:12.960,0:40:16.800
statics page or something i don't

0:40:15.440,0:40:19.200
remember the url

0:40:16.800,0:40:20.079
i think it's open source.magento.com or

0:40:19.200,0:40:23.119
something like that

0:40:20.079,0:40:25.359
without actually yeah

0:40:23.119,0:40:26.800
if i have to guess i would say most of

0:40:25.359,0:40:28.240
the contributions are coming for

0:40:26.800,0:40:30.400
partners these days

0:40:28.240,0:40:32.560
i think there's a new adobe program

0:40:30.400,0:40:35.040
where they pay some of these partners

0:40:32.560,0:40:36.800
who don't have that much work to do to

0:40:35.040,0:40:40.560
contribute back to the code

0:40:36.800,0:40:42.880
but it's it's kind of hard to tell like

0:40:40.560,0:40:44.319
i don't even know i don't know to be

0:40:42.880,0:40:45.359
honest i don't really know the answer to

0:40:44.319,0:40:47.119
that i think it's

0:40:45.359,0:40:49.040
it might be pretty much the same but

0:40:47.119,0:40:49.359
it's it's kind of hard to tell without

0:40:49.040,0:40:51.520
the

0:40:49.359,0:40:53.040
the real stats it's weird because i

0:40:51.520,0:40:54.560
remember thinking i thought it was great

0:40:53.040,0:40:56.079
when they were starting to incentivize

0:40:54.560,0:40:57.680
partners to contribute with the

0:40:56.079,0:40:59.520
different point systems and stuff and

0:40:57.680,0:41:02.560
then now the covid program i think is

0:40:59.520,0:41:03.119
is really cool um but then it seems like

0:41:02.560,0:41:05.920
maybe

0:41:03.119,0:41:07.440
it's because it's incentivized it's

0:41:05.920,0:41:09.040
something that the partners do because

0:41:07.440,0:41:10.319
of those incentives but then that like

0:41:09.040,0:41:12.240
organic

0:41:10.319,0:41:13.599
contribution from the community like the

0:41:12.240,0:41:15.920
thing lars did and

0:41:13.599,0:41:16.720
stuff like that it seems maybe there's a

0:41:15.920,0:41:19.839
little less

0:41:16.720,0:41:20.880
but i don't know when this all started

0:41:19.839,0:41:23.200
maybe i don't know

0:41:20.880,0:41:24.079
two or three years ago open source was

0:41:23.200,0:41:26.319
in full force

0:41:24.079,0:41:27.280
but then with the points and all that

0:41:26.319,0:41:29.200
gamification

0:41:27.280,0:41:31.040
people was like okay i can actually make

0:41:29.200,0:41:32.960
money out of this i can actually be the

0:41:31.040,0:41:35.359
number one contributor

0:41:32.960,0:41:37.280
be like if i do four or five pull

0:41:35.359,0:41:38.480
requests a month i'm gonna be the first

0:41:37.280,0:41:41.680
one in this list

0:41:38.480,0:41:42.720
and people took that and tried to how to

0:41:41.680,0:41:45.520
say they tried to

0:41:42.720,0:41:47.119
meet the game they tried to win the game

0:41:45.520,0:41:48.000
exactly that was the expression i was

0:41:47.119,0:41:49.359
looking for

0:41:48.000,0:41:51.040
and probably the same happened with the

0:41:49.359,0:41:53.200
magento masters award

0:41:51.040,0:41:54.880
that was an incredibly good award when

0:41:53.200,0:41:57.599
sherry rhodey created that

0:41:54.880,0:41:58.560
but then it has to change somehow

0:41:57.599,0:42:00.640
because people were

0:41:58.560,0:42:01.680
doing everything to get that award and

0:42:00.640,0:42:03.839
that killed the fun

0:42:01.680,0:42:05.680
you know like i don't travel to get an

0:42:03.839,0:42:06.319
award i try because i like it naturally

0:42:05.680,0:42:08.079
because it

0:42:06.319,0:42:10.240
gives me money and it gives me the

0:42:08.079,0:42:10.800
possibility to go to like to egypt to

0:42:10.240,0:42:13.040
rome

0:42:10.800,0:42:14.000
and to india all on the all in the same

0:42:13.040,0:42:17.359
year you know

0:42:14.000,0:42:19.359
so it's when you incentivize this kind

0:42:17.359,0:42:21.920
of stuff people try to

0:42:19.359,0:42:23.599
play not don't won't play by the rules

0:42:21.920,0:42:25.760
and it's it's not great you know

0:42:23.599,0:42:27.839
so it's it's a really interesting

0:42:25.760,0:42:30.000
balance and i think jerry

0:42:27.839,0:42:32.319
cherry roll actually did something great

0:42:30.000,0:42:33.599
by changing the magento masters program

0:42:32.319,0:42:35.359
yeah so it's it's gonna be really

0:42:33.599,0:42:35.839
interesting next year i think she's

0:42:35.359,0:42:37.839
great

0:42:35.839,0:42:38.880
and i love sherry so nothing she's doing

0:42:37.839,0:42:41.440
is wrong for me

0:42:38.880,0:42:42.480
yeah yeah that's a good i think that's a

0:42:41.440,0:42:45.680
good place to end

0:42:42.480,0:42:46.880
um it was a it was a fun uh uh

0:42:45.680,0:42:49.359
conversation here

0:42:46.880,0:42:51.520
and uh where's the best place for people

0:42:49.359,0:42:53.200
to find you online

0:42:51.520,0:42:54.960
no you can find me on twitter you can

0:42:53.200,0:42:57.040
find me on linkedin or i'm

0:42:54.960,0:42:59.040
probably on slack talking about food

0:42:57.040,0:43:05.119
with someone so yeah i can

0:42:59.040,0:43:05.119
you can find me anywhere almost anywhere