Had a chance to sit down with Adii Pienaar here - the founder of WooCommerce and Conversio. He just had a new book come out and is building a new SaaS product.
We talked about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, his 2 exits, the book Life Profitability, as well as the new startup he is building - Cogsy.
Cogsy is a SaaS in the eCommerce space to help merchants get a better handle on their Cost Of Goods Sold (COGS) data. It will also help with sell-side and buy-side inventory optimization.
Adii is a super interesting, very warm, kind, and thoughtful person. I hope you enjoy it!
Full transcript: https://v3.commercehero.io/podcast/104
0:00:00.160,0:00:03.120 one of the biggest challenges we've 0:00:01.599,0:00:06.080 always had in her business 0:00:03.120,0:00:07.279 is just getting good cogs data literally 0:00:06.080,0:00:17.050 cost of goods sold 0:00:07.279,0:00:24.059 do that in a reliable manner 0:00:17.050,0:00:24.059 [Music] 0:00:25.439,0:00:28.800 80 how you doing buddy i'm really good 0:00:28.400,0:00:31.599 it's 0:00:28.800,0:00:33.520 really great to to finally be here ken 0:00:31.599,0:00:35.520 yeah man it's great to chat i 0:00:33.520,0:00:37.120 um have listened to i feel like eight or 0:00:35.520,0:00:40.320 nine of your podcast 0:00:37.120,0:00:42.800 episodes uh life profitability 0:00:40.320,0:00:44.399 and um and have really enjoyed them you 0:00:42.800,0:00:47.280 tend to ask people 0:00:44.399,0:00:48.640 how they introduce themselves and 0:00:47.280,0:00:49.840 whenever i'm listening to that i'm 0:00:48.640,0:00:51.440 thinking of myself and then you'll have 0:00:49.840,0:00:53.120 a whole conversation around it the 0:00:51.440,0:00:54.719 labels they use and things like that 0:00:53.120,0:00:56.239 and i'm like i want to know how you 0:00:54.719,0:00:57.039 introduce yourself so that's that's the 0:00:56.239,0:00:59.840 first question 0:00:57.039,0:01:01.199 is is how do you introduce yourself oh 0:00:59.840,0:01:03.120 thanks for putting me on the spot 0:01:01.199,0:01:04.640 um but it's totally fair because because 0:01:03.120,0:01:05.680 you're right like that is exactly the 0:01:04.640,0:01:09.200 way i start every 0:01:05.680,0:01:12.400 every podcast um i guess these days 0:01:09.200,0:01:14.159 i introduce myself as a entrepreneur 0:01:12.400,0:01:16.640 that has built and sold to software 0:01:14.159,0:01:19.840 businesses currently working on a new 0:01:16.640,0:01:21.759 software business and i'm also a soon to 0:01:19.840,0:01:23.119 be published author 0:01:21.759,0:01:25.119 and beyond that like things that i'm 0:01:23.119,0:01:27.520 proud of um i'm a husband 0:01:25.119,0:01:28.159 i'm a dad i consider myself a family man 0:01:27.520,0:01:31.280 um 0:01:28.159,0:01:32.159 and i'm 100 a wine snob which i balance 0:01:31.280,0:01:35.920 out by 0:01:32.159,0:01:38.560 also running a lot when i'm not injured 0:01:35.920,0:01:39.600 really so you're a big wine your big 0:01:38.560,0:01:42.079 wine guy 0:01:39.600,0:01:43.040 i like i'm a wine geek right looks 0:01:42.079,0:01:45.119 beyond the taste 0:01:43.040,0:01:46.960 um and just the kind of obviously the 0:01:45.119,0:01:47.520 buzz that comes with alcohol right like 0:01:46.960,0:01:49.840 i 0:01:47.520,0:01:50.720 i totally geek out on like all aspects 0:01:49.840,0:01:52.240 about the wine 0:01:50.720,0:01:53.759 you know from the actual making the kind 0:01:52.240,0:01:55.360 of the heritage there of 0:01:53.759,0:01:57.200 the family stories that normally come 0:01:55.360,0:01:58.560 with that um you know all the way to 0:01:57.200,0:01:59.439 kind of the branding and the business 0:01:58.560,0:02:01.520 components 0:01:59.439,0:02:02.960 you know to that um it's just this 0:02:01.520,0:02:04.799 incredibly kind of nice 0:02:02.960,0:02:06.719 almost melting pot of so many different 0:02:04.799,0:02:07.520 perspectives in a bottle in a single 0:02:06.719,0:02:09.679 bottle and then 0:02:07.520,0:02:11.200 it's obviously amplified by you know the 0:02:09.679,0:02:12.959 company whether that's me listening to 0:02:11.200,0:02:14.080 some leonard cohen late at night when i 0:02:12.959,0:02:17.200 should be sleeping 0:02:14.080,0:02:18.800 um or having kind of my best mates and 0:02:17.200,0:02:20.480 and over and then sharing you know a 0:02:18.800,0:02:22.239 bottle of wine so yeah just 0:02:20.480,0:02:24.000 like it does wine does all of those 0:02:22.239,0:02:26.239 things for me 0:02:24.000,0:02:27.360 that's really cool i wish i was a wine 0:02:26.239,0:02:29.360 snob like it's like 0:02:27.360,0:02:31.120 that's like a classy thing to be into 0:02:29.360,0:02:32.800 but i'm like one of these guys 0:02:31.120,0:02:34.160 give me whatever white wine you have 0:02:32.800,0:02:36.400 it's fine like yeah 0:02:34.160,0:02:38.879 i'm like a margarita guy i'm like the 0:02:36.400,0:02:40.480 most uninteresting guy at you know when 0:02:38.879,0:02:43.519 it comes to alcohol 0:02:40.480,0:02:46.640 um so i'm a little jealous there 0:02:43.519,0:02:46.640 there's always a start by the way 0:02:46.879,0:02:54.000 there's always a start yeah 0:02:50.000,0:02:55.040 uh so um what like you're doing a lot of 0:02:54.000,0:02:58.080 things right you've got 0:02:55.040,0:03:00.400 the the podcast um the book 0:02:58.080,0:03:01.440 um the business that you're building 0:03:00.400,0:03:04.159 cogsi 0:03:01.440,0:03:05.680 um what is like you know you're you're 0:03:04.159,0:03:07.360 in you're like a very 0:03:05.680,0:03:09.120 i wanna talk about work-life balance 0:03:07.360,0:03:12.000 right which you're trying to kind of re 0:03:09.120,0:03:12.480 brand that term um but you're like a 0:03:12.000,0:03:14.239 very 0:03:12.480,0:03:15.760 like balanced guy and you've gone 0:03:14.239,0:03:17.519 through these phases of like 0:03:15.760,0:03:18.879 work work work work work and then you've 0:03:17.519,0:03:22.159 talked about like 0:03:18.879,0:03:24.959 hitting burnout and and sabbatical stuff 0:03:22.159,0:03:26.080 and like finding balance so like what is 0:03:24.959,0:03:28.319 your 0:03:26.080,0:03:30.879 um what does your schedule look like day 0:03:28.319,0:03:31.519 to day what is like your mind space look 0:03:30.879,0:03:33.040 like 0:03:31.519,0:03:34.959 as you're d you know doing all these 0:03:33.040,0:03:36.480 different things yeah 0:03:34.959,0:03:39.280 i think the kind of the latter part is 0:03:36.480,0:03:41.920 probably easier to answer i can which is 0:03:39.280,0:03:43.920 um in terms of mind space i i try and 0:03:41.920,0:03:46.879 focus on things that 0:03:43.920,0:03:47.360 uh like i try and follow my energy right 0:03:46.879,0:03:50.000 and 0:03:47.360,0:03:51.280 i know as kind of esoteric as that 0:03:50.000,0:03:53.200 sounds right i 0:03:51.280,0:03:54.799 i think i've learned over the years that 0:03:53.200,0:03:56.480 if something doesn't feel right 0:03:54.799,0:03:58.959 like there's probably something off and 0:03:56.480,0:04:00.239 i think that's probably the 0:03:58.959,0:04:02.159 the best thing that i've learned in the 0:04:00.239,0:04:03.120 last couple of years and um you know 0:04:02.159,0:04:06.480 when i say the best thing 0:04:03.120,0:04:08.560 is it raised to mindfulness um that i 0:04:06.480,0:04:10.879 stumbled into literally at a time in my 0:04:08.560,0:04:12.720 life about four years ago where 0:04:10.879,0:04:14.400 my whole life fell apart right and the 0:04:12.720,0:04:15.280 thing that i learned through mindfulness 0:04:14.400,0:04:16.959 is just this 0:04:15.280,0:04:19.040 this awareness of things like you're 0:04:16.959,0:04:21.040 just catching you know this 0:04:19.040,0:04:22.800 you know the thought train or train of 0:04:21.040,0:04:24.000 thoughts before it becomes a bigger 0:04:22.800,0:04:24.800 thing and i think that's how i feel 0:04:24.000,0:04:28.080 about energy 0:04:24.800,0:04:30.639 so when i think about working 0:04:28.080,0:04:32.960 and and i think about my ambition like 0:04:30.639,0:04:36.240 that's what i try and follow like 0:04:32.960,0:04:39.680 um and i just try and you know find 0:04:36.240,0:04:42.160 some good tension between having habits 0:04:39.680,0:04:43.919 routines having some structure right and 0:04:42.160,0:04:45.440 and more around having space 0:04:43.919,0:04:47.520 like that's what i try and create every 0:04:45.440,0:04:48.240 single day i try and create some space 0:04:47.520,0:04:50.639 which 0:04:48.240,0:04:51.759 kind of translates both ways which is i 0:04:50.639,0:04:54.080 will have some 0:04:51.759,0:04:56.320 scheduled things in my kind of work day 0:04:54.080,0:04:57.759 whereas i will have some free space to 0:04:56.320,0:04:59.440 to fill up in whatever way i see 0:04:57.759,0:05:01.440 possible but it also relates to 0:04:59.440,0:05:03.440 how kind of that interplay between you 0:05:01.440,0:05:05.440 know 80 being at work and 80 being 0:05:03.440,0:05:07.440 because i work for i i work from home 0:05:05.440,0:05:08.639 like exclusively even european pandemic 0:05:07.440,0:05:10.720 right so how 0:05:08.639,0:05:12.320 kind of 80 the the work 80 that we work 0:05:10.720,0:05:12.880 mindset it kind of bleeds into the rest 0:05:12.320,0:05:15.919 of my life 0:05:12.880,0:05:16.639 at home with my family right um so i try 0:05:15.919,0:05:17.840 and follow 0:05:16.639,0:05:19.759 kind of have the space have the 0:05:17.840,0:05:22.800 structure but then follow energy and if 0:05:19.759,0:05:23.360 the energy is off then i back off 0:05:22.800,0:05:24.880 literally 0:05:23.360,0:05:27.440 right and sometimes when the energy is 0:05:24.880,0:05:28.400 there i also follow that which which 0:05:27.440,0:05:30.160 often means like 0:05:28.400,0:05:31.680 sometimes like the thing i love on a 0:05:30.160,0:05:33.759 saturday or sunday morning 0:05:31.680,0:05:35.280 is you know after a run for example or 0:05:33.759,0:05:37.919 after doing something with family 0:05:35.280,0:05:38.720 the house will be quiet my mind will be 0:05:37.919,0:05:40.240 quiet 0:05:38.720,0:05:41.840 and i'll just feel at peace and i'll 0:05:40.240,0:05:43.120 actually sit down and i'll bash out like 0:05:41.840,0:05:45.120 an hour hour and a half 0:05:43.120,0:05:46.639 worth of work right and that on the 0:05:45.120,0:05:47.199 surface that sounds very contradictory 0:05:46.639,0:05:49.199 to this 0:05:47.199,0:05:50.639 don't work on weekends like you know 0:05:49.199,0:05:53.440 you're a workaholic but yeah 0:05:50.639,0:05:54.960 actually that's that's me pursuing just 0:05:53.440,0:05:58.960 that energy that i have 0:05:54.960,0:06:00.319 in that moment effectively yeah yeah 0:05:58.960,0:06:01.840 that's so interesting dude there's so 0:06:00.319,0:06:03.360 many things i want to jump into there 0:06:01.840,0:06:05.039 that the energy thing is something i've 0:06:03.360,0:06:06.240 been thinking about like almost non-stop 0:06:05.039,0:06:09.199 i've been doing this like 0:06:06.240,0:06:11.039 uh daily journaling exercise for 30 days 0:06:09.199,0:06:11.600 actually today was day 30 so i'm finally 0:06:11.039,0:06:14.479 done 0:06:11.600,0:06:16.000 but it was basically every day what are 0:06:14.479,0:06:18.080 the things that you fill you with 0:06:16.000,0:06:19.360 enthusiasm or i think about that as like 0:06:18.080,0:06:20.880 give you energy 0:06:19.360,0:06:22.560 what are the things that drain your 0:06:20.880,0:06:23.600 energy and what did you learn about 0:06:22.560,0:06:25.759 yourself 0:06:23.600,0:06:26.960 um and i've been doing that every day 0:06:25.759,0:06:28.639 and it's been 0:06:26.960,0:06:30.080 i think i've been learning about what 0:06:28.639,0:06:31.600 are what are the things i need to focus 0:06:30.080,0:06:34.240 on and that's 0:06:31.600,0:06:36.080 kind of trained me to think that way in 0:06:34.240,0:06:38.560 my day-to-day like 0:06:36.080,0:06:39.680 and so i'm i'm like constantly thinking 0:06:38.560,0:06:42.160 about that 0:06:39.680,0:06:44.000 um but but i was curious you mentioned 0:06:42.160,0:06:45.199 like your life almost fell apart and i 0:06:44.000,0:06:47.440 think you talked a little bit about that 0:06:45.199,0:06:49.599 on some of the podcasts you've done 0:06:47.440,0:06:51.440 uh but i was curious to know a little 0:06:49.599,0:06:52.479 bit more about what that looked like 0:06:51.440,0:06:55.280 you know to the extent that you're 0:06:52.479,0:06:57.120 comfortable you know sharing yeah 0:06:55.280,0:06:58.720 i mean i think kind of the the biggest 0:06:57.120,0:07:00.800 component there were there was 0:06:58.720,0:07:03.039 was that um that i convinced myself that 0:07:00.800,0:07:05.599 i needed to divorce my wife right and 0:07:03.039,0:07:06.160 um you know last year for example like 0:07:05.599,0:07:08.639 we 0:07:06.160,0:07:10.319 last year we were married 10 years and 0:07:08.639,0:07:13.039 like getting to that point and i mean 0:07:10.319,0:07:13.759 i think that's like you know divorce and 0:07:13.039,0:07:15.919 all the kind of 0:07:13.759,0:07:17.599 subsequent dominoes that fall over as a 0:07:15.919,0:07:18.080 result of that is significant right i 0:07:17.599,0:07:20.720 mean it 0:07:18.080,0:07:22.000 you know in an instant um you know one's 0:07:20.720,0:07:24.720 life 0:07:22.000,0:07:25.919 can change immeasurably right so and i 0:07:24.720,0:07:28.800 said i 0:07:25.919,0:07:31.120 you know the reason i um kind of and 0:07:28.800,0:07:31.840 i've always kind of used euphemisms 0:07:31.120,0:07:34.160 around that 0:07:31.840,0:07:35.919 um so well then for for whatever you've 0:07:34.160,0:07:38.960 done to pull that out of me 0:07:35.919,0:07:40.319 um and i mean that as a compliment by 0:07:38.960,0:07:43.039 the way um 0:07:40.319,0:07:44.560 i think like the point being in that and 0:07:43.039,0:07:45.919 the reason i found myself there where i 0:07:44.560,0:07:46.560 thought that this was the only solution 0:07:45.919,0:07:49.120 is i 0:07:46.560,0:07:50.720 like i was you know my therapist helped 0:07:49.120,0:07:52.400 me understand that my mind was on fire 0:07:50.720,0:07:53.599 like constantly i was constantly in this 0:07:52.400,0:07:55.759 fight-or-flight mode 0:07:53.599,0:07:56.960 right which is as an entrepreneur that's 0:07:55.759,0:07:58.639 ambitious 0:07:56.960,0:08:00.560 that's great right because that fires it 0:07:58.639,0:08:02.080 like you literally kind of you go go go 0:08:00.560,0:08:04.319 right because the mind works 0:08:02.080,0:08:05.599 really well in that way but then for 0:08:04.319,0:08:08.319 other things like 0:08:05.599,0:08:08.960 things that tend to be non-obvious or 0:08:08.319,0:08:12.479 softer 0:08:08.960,0:08:14.960 or um just not this kind of linear path 0:08:12.479,0:08:16.319 it doesn't work really well um and i 0:08:14.960,0:08:17.199 literally backed myself in a corner of 0:08:16.319,0:08:19.199 that way 0:08:17.199,0:08:20.960 where i thought that the only way kind 0:08:19.199,0:08:22.479 of 0:08:20.960,0:08:23.919 yeah i wouldn't i'm not gonna say that 0:08:22.479,0:08:26.000 like the only way to get out of the 0:08:23.919,0:08:27.199 corner was in that sense to separate to 0:08:26.000,0:08:29.680 divorce right 0:08:27.199,0:08:31.360 which which i now know is like that 0:08:29.680,0:08:33.599 thinking was totally subpar like 0:08:31.360,0:08:34.640 that that was never the solution because 0:08:33.599,0:08:36.719 ultimately 0:08:34.640,0:08:38.080 i would have still been stuck after that 0:08:36.719,0:08:38.959 with myself i just would not have a 0:08:38.080,0:08:41.919 spouse to 0:08:38.959,0:08:42.719 to blame my issues on essentially right 0:08:41.919,0:08:46.000 right 0:08:42.719,0:08:47.760 right man that's um 0:08:46.000,0:08:49.519 yeah that's that's heavy i mean it's 0:08:47.760,0:08:51.920 such a um 0:08:49.519,0:08:53.200 it's such a common thing right it's it's 0:08:51.920,0:08:55.200 one of those things that 0:08:53.200,0:08:56.880 i don't know what the number is over 50 0:08:55.200,0:08:59.920 and it's so 0:08:56.880,0:09:00.800 easy to be uh frustrated with things i 0:08:59.920,0:09:02.540 know myself 0:09:00.800,0:09:04.000 i've been um 0:09:02.540,0:09:07.120 [Music] 0:09:04.000,0:09:08.640 seeing that likes like like getting a 0:09:07.120,0:09:10.399 little bit of that with like mindfulness 0:09:08.640,0:09:12.800 and stuff that outside perspective of 0:09:10.399,0:09:14.640 where i'm frustrated with something 0:09:12.800,0:09:16.399 and then you can start to see when it's 0:09:14.640,0:09:19.839 you and it's not them 0:09:16.399,0:09:23.120 and um and stuff like that and uh 0:09:19.839,0:09:26.320 been uh been thinking about that a lot 0:09:23.120,0:09:29.839 um but that's that's powerful man 0:09:26.320,0:09:31.600 i mean it's it's interesting how as 0:09:29.839,0:09:33.440 as entrepreneurs you know you get this 0:09:31.600,0:09:35.680 level of success and then 0:09:33.440,0:09:36.959 it's like you you run into a wall it 0:09:35.680,0:09:38.399 seems to be a pattern 0:09:36.959,0:09:39.920 you know like you think that you're 0:09:38.399,0:09:40.640 going to sell the business and go live 0:09:39.920,0:09:43.040 on a beach 0:09:40.640,0:09:44.880 happily ever after and it never quite 0:09:43.040,0:09:47.200 happens you know 0:09:44.880,0:09:48.480 yeah i don't know what that's about yeah 0:09:47.200,0:09:49.680 well 0:09:48.480,0:09:52.000 you know what kind i think like the 0:09:49.680,0:09:54.880 biggest um you know problem because i 0:09:52.000,0:09:56.480 i recently went through that exam exact 0:09:54.880,0:09:59.200 same kind of thought process again 0:09:56.480,0:10:00.480 right i um i mean i sold conversion to 0:09:59.200,0:10:03.440 campaign monitor 0:10:00.480,0:10:05.360 august 2019 um i spent a little bit more 0:10:03.440,0:10:06.480 than a year with campaign monitor after 0:10:05.360,0:10:08.399 the acquisition 0:10:06.480,0:10:10.480 um you know left them september last 0:10:08.399,0:10:11.519 year and like during those kind of last 0:10:10.480,0:10:13.279 couple of months when 0:10:11.519,0:10:15.040 when i knew that it was about time that 0:10:13.279,0:10:16.480 i was going to leave i started doing 0:10:15.040,0:10:18.320 that thought experience like what a 0:10:16.480,0:10:20.160 what do i want like what do i want to do 0:10:18.320,0:10:22.560 next right because at that stage 0:10:20.160,0:10:23.760 um i've had the literally the financial 0:10:22.560,0:10:25.680 success 0:10:23.760,0:10:27.279 to basically decide what i want to do a 0:10:25.680,0:10:28.640 very privileged position right 0:10:27.279,0:10:30.560 so i went through this whole thought 0:10:28.640,0:10:32.720 experiment of hey 0:10:30.560,0:10:33.920 like i i've already been at that stage 0:10:32.720,0:10:35.440 when i left cambodia 0:10:33.920,0:10:37.519 i think the book was pretty much done 0:10:35.440,0:10:41.120 and final editing for example 0:10:37.519,0:10:42.640 um so i figured like okay i can push the 0:10:41.120,0:10:44.320 book i could become like 0:10:42.640,0:10:46.240 you know book author slash keynote 0:10:44.320,0:10:48.000 speaker run workshops 0:10:46.240,0:10:49.600 you know that kind of thing but that is 0:10:48.000,0:10:51.839 interesting right um 0:10:49.600,0:10:53.519 i already do some some coaching within 0:10:51.839,0:10:55.600 dan martell's sas academy 0:10:53.519,0:10:57.519 coaching other founders i enjoy that 0:10:55.600,0:10:58.880 thought about adding that or doing that 0:10:57.519,0:11:01.519 to more of that 0:10:58.880,0:11:02.320 um you know adding consultancy there 0:11:01.519,0:11:04.160 perhaps 0:11:02.320,0:11:05.600 um so we kind of looked at multiple 0:11:04.160,0:11:08.640 different things and 0:11:05.600,0:11:10.959 i i eventually decided 0:11:08.640,0:11:12.320 that hey i want to build a new sas 0:11:10.959,0:11:14.000 business um 0:11:12.320,0:11:16.880 so i should look for ideas and a big 0:11:14.000,0:11:20.800 part of why sas ultimately beyond the 0:11:16.880,0:11:23.040 actual idea of cogsi right was all about 0:11:20.800,0:11:24.000 i felt like those other paths i and by 0:11:23.040,0:11:25.200 the way but 0:11:24.000,0:11:26.720 now i think of it the other path that i 0:11:25.200,0:11:27.839 consider was just going down the 0:11:26.720,0:11:30.000 investment route 0:11:27.839,0:11:31.519 just actively kind of you know investing 0:11:30.000,0:11:33.760 at this stage my my own 0:11:31.519,0:11:35.519 and other people's money probably right 0:11:33.760,0:11:38.560 and the reason why i 0:11:35.519,0:11:40.399 always decided against that was i love 0:11:38.560,0:11:42.240 building a team i love having kind of 0:11:40.399,0:11:43.920 people around me that have 0:11:42.240,0:11:45.600 shared passion and shared vision and 0:11:43.920,0:11:47.120 this interest in this idea and i didn't 0:11:45.600,0:11:48.399 feel like those other paths that i would 0:11:47.120,0:11:51.040 be able to get that 0:11:48.399,0:11:53.120 and for me at least that's part of that 0:11:51.040,0:11:55.200 equation so when you ask a question of 0:11:53.120,0:11:56.800 like entrepreneur running to you know 0:11:55.200,0:11:58.480 against the wall or getting to 0:11:56.800,0:12:00.160 the top of a you know a mountain and 0:11:58.480,0:12:01.600 then seeking out a new mountain 0:12:00.160,0:12:03.360 i at least know that one of those 0:12:01.600,0:12:04.560 reasons why i always seek out the new 0:12:03.360,0:12:07.279 mountain to climb 0:12:04.560,0:12:07.600 is kind of that team um idea that i have 0:12:07.279,0:12:09.600 there 0:12:07.600,0:12:11.040 that i know that um the other thing that 0:12:09.600,0:12:13.440 comes to mind is i 0:12:11.040,0:12:14.720 like i actually thrive on a challenge 0:12:13.440,0:12:16.639 like that's what kind of 0:12:14.720,0:12:18.000 makes me want to build businesses 0:12:16.639,0:12:18.880 because the challenge part is very much 0:12:18.000,0:12:21.200 aligned with 0:12:18.880,0:12:23.200 my curiosity my thirst for learning so 0:12:21.200,0:12:25.760 those are the things 0:12:23.200,0:12:27.040 that that i've come to know about myself 0:12:25.760,0:12:28.320 that i'm very aware about and that's how 0:12:27.040,0:12:31.279 i essentially pick 0:12:28.320,0:12:31.279 what i do next 0:12:32.000,0:12:37.279 i love it um the um 0:12:35.360,0:12:39.200 the cogsi thing is super interesting so 0:12:37.279,0:12:42.160 i um 0:12:39.200,0:12:43.600 uh so cogsi does sort of inventory 0:12:42.160,0:12:46.320 optimization 0:12:43.600,0:12:47.839 uh for e-commerce merchants or retailers 0:12:46.320,0:12:50.880 in general merchants 0:12:47.839,0:12:52.320 and um i going back like i wanna say 0:12:50.880,0:12:54.079 eight years or something like that i was 0:12:52.320,0:12:57.519 a developer in-house with um 0:12:54.079,0:12:59.279 an e-commerce store and we i was looking 0:12:57.519,0:13:00.639 to find like oh how do you forecast 0:12:59.279,0:13:02.560 inventory 0:13:00.639,0:13:05.040 and uh i looked into it there was like 0:13:02.560,0:13:06.639 nothing out there netsuite was the only 0:13:05.040,0:13:09.600 option for it 0:13:06.639,0:13:10.720 um and i remember like posting to quora 0:13:09.600,0:13:12.240 and like 0:13:10.720,0:13:13.360 looking for answers and it's one of 0:13:12.240,0:13:15.200 these things that's been in the back of 0:13:13.360,0:13:16.320 my mind literally ever since then 0:13:15.200,0:13:18.800 i think i've talked about it a couple 0:13:16.320,0:13:22.160 different times and um 0:13:18.800,0:13:24.160 so when i saw this i was like and i know 0:13:22.160,0:13:26.000 cogs is doing a bunch of different stuff 0:13:24.160,0:13:28.000 not just there's like buy side 0:13:26.000,0:13:29.680 optimization sell side optimization 0:13:28.000,0:13:31.360 and things like that so it might not 0:13:29.680,0:13:32.800 just really be focused on 0:13:31.360,0:13:34.959 inventory forecasting the way i'm 0:13:32.800,0:13:35.920 thinking about it but anyways when i saw 0:13:34.959,0:13:38.480 it i was like 0:13:35.920,0:13:39.680 this is it you know um but so how did 0:13:38.480,0:13:42.560 you get the idea for 0:13:39.680,0:13:43.839 for cogsi and and what's the uh what's 0:13:42.560,0:13:47.760 the plan for it 0:13:43.839,0:13:50.000 yeah um the idea um so context here i 0:13:47.760,0:13:53.199 mean the idea goes back years ago 0:13:50.000,0:13:54.720 so my wife runs um a big e-cars business 0:13:53.199,0:13:57.519 in south africa locally 0:13:54.720,0:13:58.880 um like doing hair extensions and hair 0:13:57.519,0:14:01.760 care range 0:13:58.880,0:14:02.240 and i i found myself in that position of 0:14:01.760,0:14:05.680 being 0:14:02.240,0:14:07.120 cto um essentially which or 0:14:05.680,0:14:08.720 like that's the that's a that's a 0:14:07.120,0:14:11.120 glorified title sorry 0:14:08.720,0:14:12.480 i am the support agent on call for 0:14:11.120,0:14:16.480 anything there you go 0:14:12.480,0:14:17.360 um let's not um there is a hierarchy in 0:14:16.480,0:14:20.000 that cto 0:14:17.360,0:14:21.839 makes you feel better about yourself 0:14:20.000,0:14:23.839 exactly 0:14:21.839,0:14:25.760 so so i've been supporting her on that 0:14:23.839,0:14:26.399 front and the further context here is i 0:14:25.760,0:14:28.560 actually have 0:14:26.399,0:14:29.920 um i studied accounting at university so 0:14:28.560,0:14:30.560 what my degree is in accounting that's 0:14:29.920,0:14:32.079 where 0:14:30.560,0:14:33.360 you know i came from it was my dad's 0:14:32.079,0:14:36.079 dream for me to be a chartered 0:14:33.360,0:14:39.680 accountant i luckily dodged that bullet 0:14:36.079,0:14:40.800 um but i've always i've always been like 0:14:39.680,0:14:43.519 you know and that's a whole different 0:14:40.800,0:14:45.680 story but i've always been kind of um 0:14:43.519,0:14:46.720 financially savvy in that sense like 0:14:45.680,0:14:48.160 accounting center i understand the 0:14:46.720,0:14:49.839 principles i can apply it 0:14:48.160,0:14:51.279 for conversion i did kind of our own 0:14:49.839,0:14:52.720 kind of bookkeeping and accounting up 0:14:51.279,0:14:56.240 until acquisition 0:14:52.720,0:14:58.880 so in my business um she uses 0:14:56.240,0:15:01.120 uh inventory management solution that i 0:14:58.880,0:15:02.880 will not name 0:15:01.120,0:15:04.240 because i don't like criticizing other 0:15:02.880,0:15:06.880 people's products 0:15:04.240,0:15:07.279 at least in public where there's records 0:15:06.880,0:15:09.360 yeah 0:15:07.279,0:15:11.040 and yeah one of the biggest challenges 0:15:09.360,0:15:14.079 we've always had in her business 0:15:11.040,0:15:16.240 is just getting good cogs data literally 0:15:14.079,0:15:17.680 cost of goods sold do that in a reliable 0:15:16.240,0:15:22.000 manner right 0:15:17.680,0:15:24.079 um and we literally have like 0:15:22.000,0:15:26.079 spending years so much you know so many 0:15:24.079,0:15:28.399 hours working with the kind of 0:15:26.079,0:15:30.079 software provider um and my wife's 0:15:28.399,0:15:31.759 business is on shopify right so 0:15:30.079,0:15:33.199 people can make their own assumptions 0:15:31.759,0:15:34.399 there there aren't that many of these 0:15:33.199,0:15:36.000 solutions out there 0:15:34.399,0:15:37.680 and they're literally on record killing 0:15:36.000,0:15:40.079 telling us that 0:15:37.680,0:15:42.160 don't trust the numbers that we give you 0:15:40.079,0:15:44.160 don't use them in your tax filings 0:15:42.160,0:15:46.480 we're not a financial reporting tool and 0:15:44.160,0:15:48.639 i'm like 0:15:46.480,0:15:49.519 okay you know please please explain 0:15:48.639,0:15:52.720 right 0:15:49.519,0:15:54.240 so so this happens when i start out yes 0:15:52.720,0:15:54.880 right so so this happens about two three 0:15:54.240,0:15:57.120 years ago 0:15:54.880,0:15:58.480 um probably three years ago and i look 0:15:57.120,0:16:00.000 at the idea that i'm like 0:15:58.480,0:16:01.920 the solution obviously is you know i 0:16:00.000,0:16:03.440 know how to build software not myself 0:16:01.920,0:16:05.839 but i know how to get a team together to 0:16:03.440,0:16:07.120 build software i should totally build 0:16:05.839,0:16:09.759 a competitor by the way are you a 0:16:07.120,0:16:12.480 developer by by background 0:16:09.759,0:16:12.880 no i mean i i built the very first theme 0:16:12.480,0:16:14.480 that 0:16:12.880,0:16:16.560 kind of ultimately became more themes 0:16:14.480,0:16:17.440 before i met my eventual co-founders 0:16:16.560,0:16:19.440 magnus and mark 0:16:17.440,0:16:21.440 um and i can dabble a bit in kind of 0:16:19.440,0:16:22.160 html css for anyone that is technically 0:16:21.440,0:16:24.800 out there 0:16:22.160,0:16:26.560 back then my php learning curve tapped 0:16:24.800,0:16:28.639 out when the next step would have been 0:16:26.560,0:16:30.639 php classes and i looked at a few 0:16:28.639,0:16:32.560 tutorials for classes and i was like 0:16:30.639,0:16:34.720 yeah i know i'm not that interested yeah 0:16:32.560,0:16:36.639 yeah 0:16:34.720,0:16:38.240 so like i could still like if you if you 0:16:36.639,0:16:40.079 give me something on my own blog for 0:16:38.240,0:16:41.519 example and i needed to change some html 0:16:40.079,0:16:44.000 like i could still do that but 0:16:41.519,0:16:45.920 like anything yeah beyond that like i 0:16:44.000,0:16:48.399 have better people to do that 0:16:45.920,0:16:49.920 um right anyway so we look at this and 0:16:48.399,0:16:50.480 i'm like this is totally like i should 0:16:49.920,0:16:52.959 build 0:16:50.480,0:16:53.519 some kind of accounting inventory thing 0:16:52.959,0:16:54.800 here 0:16:53.519,0:16:56.639 because there's space in the market i 0:16:54.800,0:16:57.360 think i can do it better because i'm 0:16:56.639,0:17:00.000 totally obsessed 0:16:57.360,0:17:01.120 like that's one thing i got for my dad 0:17:00.000,0:17:03.040 who is 0:17:01.120,0:17:04.319 in that kind of realm of financial 0:17:03.040,0:17:06.240 accounting as well 0:17:04.319,0:17:07.600 like attention to detail right and it 0:17:06.240,0:17:09.280 needs to be right there's a single way 0:17:07.600,0:17:10.400 and needs to be right 0:17:09.280,0:17:11.919 and then back then like it that just 0:17:10.400,0:17:12.640 didn't make sense within converge it 0:17:11.919,0:17:14.319 would have been 0:17:12.640,0:17:16.240 um a distraction for the team and i 0:17:14.319,0:17:17.839 didn't think like i could serve two guys 0:17:16.240,0:17:19.760 it didn't make sense to try and build it 0:17:17.839,0:17:22.079 separately and i also decided 0:17:19.760,0:17:23.600 and you know what this is not as sexy 0:17:22.079,0:17:26.480 fast forward a couple of years 0:17:23.600,0:17:27.919 um i'm now in a space you know having 0:17:26.480,0:17:30.080 worked like built software 0:17:27.919,0:17:32.720 marketing software which is probably the 0:17:30.080,0:17:35.200 most congested corner of the internet 0:17:32.720,0:17:36.720 and knowing how hard that is and it's 0:17:35.200,0:17:37.280 like when i started looking at new ideas 0:17:36.720,0:17:39.520 it's like 0:17:37.280,0:17:40.880 what can i build that does not qualify 0:17:39.520,0:17:42.960 itself as marketing 0:17:40.880,0:17:44.960 at all and that's when the penny dropped 0:17:42.960,0:17:46.720 that hey we had this idea back then and 0:17:44.960,0:17:47.520 when i first pitched it to my my wife 0:17:46.720,0:17:48.799 again 0:17:47.520,0:17:50.400 she's like well i've got the perfect 0:17:48.799,0:17:51.520 name for you as well you should call it 0:17:50.400,0:17:53.440 cozy so the 0:17:51.520,0:17:54.799 the name there perfectly derived from 0:17:53.440,0:17:56.880 cogs um 0:17:54.799,0:17:58.400 you know it's her name um that she came 0:17:56.880,0:17:59.600 up with so it kind of went full circle 0:17:58.400,0:18:01.039 there 0:17:59.600,0:18:02.799 i think the only thing that's changed 0:18:01.039,0:18:05.679 since is 0:18:02.799,0:18:08.320 where i thought that we would start with 0:18:05.679,0:18:09.679 building those foundations right the 0:18:08.320,0:18:11.760 i would say the financial part of 0:18:09.679,0:18:13.760 inventory management right processing 0:18:11.760,0:18:15.760 purchase orders calculating your cogs 0:18:13.760,0:18:17.600 that kind of thing like we're not going 0:18:15.760,0:18:18.160 to do that we're instead going to focus 0:18:17.600,0:18:20.799 on 0:18:18.160,0:18:21.360 two other pillars um which is kind of 0:18:20.799,0:18:23.919 helping 0:18:21.360,0:18:24.960 brands buy better so forecasting being 0:18:23.919,0:18:26.880 one of those things 0:18:24.960,0:18:29.280 and then tying that back kind of into 0:18:26.880,0:18:31.440 sounding better i think the 0:18:29.280,0:18:33.120 my whole philosophy there is um you know 0:18:31.440,0:18:35.200 as software makers we constantly build 0:18:33.120,0:18:36.080 these incredibly sophisticated powerful 0:18:35.200,0:18:37.760 tools 0:18:36.080,0:18:39.360 and then we put it into unsophisticated 0:18:37.760,0:18:41.200 users hands and 0:18:39.360,0:18:43.360 the data the insight the recommendation 0:18:41.200,0:18:45.520 is there but the action is sometimes 0:18:43.360,0:18:46.960 just so far out of grasp for some users 0:18:45.520,0:18:47.600 and we saw that with email marketing 0:18:46.960,0:18:48.960 right where 0:18:47.600,0:18:51.120 like most of these things is drag and 0:18:48.960,0:18:53.280 drop you know you know clicker does that 0:18:51.120,0:18:55.360 wizzy wig kind of thing 0:18:53.280,0:18:56.960 and they still get stuck right because 0:18:55.360,0:18:58.480 there's still a gap between 0:18:56.960,0:19:00.320 i theoretically understand what needs to 0:18:58.480,0:19:01.120 happen here i don't know exactly how to 0:19:00.320,0:19:03.200 implement it 0:19:01.120,0:19:04.720 in my business so with cogsi like i want 0:19:03.200,0:19:07.520 to make sure that we 0:19:04.720,0:19:09.360 tie any any insight any kind of you know 0:19:07.520,0:19:10.400 purchasing decision directly to a sales 0:19:09.360,0:19:11.679 station like and 0:19:10.400,0:19:12.960 essentially make sure that that cash 0:19:11.679,0:19:14.000 flow loop which is ultimately what it 0:19:12.960,0:19:16.080 comes down to 0:19:14.000,0:19:17.360 is you know purring and whizzing away 0:19:16.080,0:19:20.559 like 0:19:17.360,0:19:22.720 a rolls royce i love it 0:19:20.559,0:19:25.200 so what does that look like tying every 0:19:22.720,0:19:26.720 purchasing decision to a sales decision 0:19:25.200,0:19:29.919 like what is that gonna 0:19:26.720,0:19:32.480 look like practically so 0:19:29.919,0:19:34.400 the simplest example i have is is the 0:19:32.480,0:19:35.919 following helen um so 0:19:34.400,0:19:37.760 take for example so part of what we're 0:19:35.919,0:19:38.080 building for for v1 and then the second 0:19:37.760,0:19:39.600 part 0:19:38.080,0:19:41.520 that i'll describe is is definitely kind 0:19:39.600,0:19:43.919 of a subsequent feature right but 0:19:41.520,0:19:45.440 part of what we built for v1 is a 0:19:43.919,0:19:47.120 prioritization matrix 0:19:45.440,0:19:48.640 of all of your skus so for anyone that 0:19:47.120,0:19:51.760 has multiple skus 0:19:48.640,0:19:53.760 you probably kind of the basic version 0:19:51.760,0:19:56.080 of this would be abc analysis there's 0:19:53.760,0:19:58.240 other solutions to do abc analysis right 0:19:56.080,0:19:59.200 essentially just grades your products 0:19:58.240,0:20:00.559 based on 0:19:59.200,0:20:02.720 the value they're contributing to the 0:20:00.559,0:20:03.840 business at any given stage right a 0:20:02.720,0:20:06.559 being bestsellers 0:20:03.840,0:20:07.840 c being things that you should probably 0:20:06.559,0:20:10.720 might already be obsolete 0:20:07.840,0:20:11.200 right so we've expanded on that and 0:20:10.720,0:20:13.760 built 0:20:11.200,0:20:14.799 more of privatization kind of matrix and 0:20:13.760,0:20:15.280 one of the things that we actually 0:20:14.799,0:20:18.320 consider 0:20:15.280,0:20:19.760 is we look at the kind of ltv for when a 0:20:18.320,0:20:21.280 product is purchased by a first time 0:20:19.760,0:20:21.840 customer right because the theory there 0:20:21.280,0:20:23.440 is 0:20:21.840,0:20:25.360 a product with a high kind of your first 0:20:23.440,0:20:26.880 time customer ltv 0:20:25.360,0:20:28.480 is a bestseller right you should never 0:20:26.880,0:20:30.320 run out of that product right you don't 0:20:28.480,0:20:32.799 necessarily know at that stage 0:20:30.320,0:20:33.600 when that customer is going to come back 0:20:32.799,0:20:35.840 and make their 0:20:33.600,0:20:37.120 second third fourth purchase but it's an 0:20:35.840,0:20:38.480 indication that when they purchase this 0:20:37.120,0:20:40.400 product for whatever reason as well 0:20:38.480,0:20:42.799 right cogsi does not know that 0:20:40.400,0:20:44.880 but they have a higher ltd right so 0:20:42.799,0:20:47.919 built this prioritization matrix 0:20:44.880,0:20:49.360 and in the kind of the lowest you know 0:20:47.919,0:20:51.919 crappiest quadrants 0:20:49.360,0:20:52.480 is your obsolete items and a simple way 0:20:51.919,0:20:54.559 of then 0:20:52.480,0:20:56.000 you know kind of beyond that the basic 0:20:54.559,0:20:56.480 prioritization framework here by the way 0:20:56.000,0:20:58.080 is 0:20:56.480,0:20:59.600 that you allocate more of your working 0:20:58.080,0:21:01.760 capital and available cash 0:20:59.600,0:21:03.200 to the higher up kind of you know 0:21:01.760,0:21:06.480 categorized or classified 0:21:03.200,0:21:10.799 skus right for those obsolete skus 0:21:06.480,0:21:12.480 a simple tool is to build kind of a 0:21:10.799,0:21:14.640 to have a persistent kind of clearance 0:21:12.480,0:21:15.440 or specials collection on your shopify 0:21:14.640,0:21:17.520 store 0:21:15.440,0:21:18.480 and constantly just when a product falls 0:21:17.520,0:21:20.320 into that category 0:21:18.480,0:21:22.159 you just shift there like cogsy will 0:21:20.320,0:21:24.000 automatically move it there for you 0:21:22.159,0:21:25.440 um we will mark it down based on rules 0:21:24.000,0:21:26.240 that you set like if we have your cogs 0:21:25.440,0:21:28.080 data 0:21:26.240,0:21:29.360 um you know available for example like a 0:21:28.080,0:21:31.280 simple rule would be 0:21:29.360,0:21:33.120 mark this down at cost and just get rid 0:21:31.280,0:21:33.600 of it right because at that stage when a 0:21:33.120,0:21:35.600 product is 0:21:33.600,0:21:37.280 you know obsolete it's more important 0:21:35.600,0:21:38.720 for you to have that extra cash and you 0:21:37.280,0:21:40.240 can rather invest in growth channels 0:21:38.720,0:21:42.720 right then it's just sitting there 0:21:40.240,0:21:43.440 in a warehouse somewhere so that is how 0:21:42.720,0:21:45.360 we hope to 0:21:43.440,0:21:46.799 tie these things together that's one you 0:21:45.360,0:21:48.960 know kind of one example 0:21:46.799,0:21:49.840 that we have there right so that's we're 0:21:48.960,0:21:52.159 definitely building 0:21:49.840,0:21:53.919 um i don't know what timeline that is 0:21:52.159,0:21:55.679 but like that is one example 0:21:53.919,0:21:57.200 that we want to build there and as i 0:21:55.679,0:21:58.240 said it's all about that finding that 0:21:57.200,0:22:00.400 constant loop 0:21:58.240,0:22:01.440 between spending money making sure it 0:22:00.400,0:22:03.120 comes back in 0:22:01.440,0:22:05.520 and then spending it again whether it's 0:22:03.120,0:22:07.840 on where there's inventory again or on 0:22:05.520,0:22:09.919 other growth channels 0:22:07.840,0:22:11.200 that's interesting i just remembered 0:22:09.919,0:22:14.000 when i built the uh 0:22:11.200,0:22:16.240 email marketing software for magento uh 0:22:14.000,0:22:18.240 that was a business that got acquired 0:22:16.240,0:22:19.600 the first version of it i wanted to 0:22:18.240,0:22:22.880 charge a 0:22:19.600,0:22:25.440 percentage of um profit 0:22:22.880,0:22:26.320 not revenue but profit because in 0:22:25.440,0:22:29.679 magento 0:22:26.320,0:22:30.480 there's a cost of goods field uh on the 0:22:29.679,0:22:32.240 product 0:22:30.480,0:22:33.840 and so that was the first version of it 0:22:32.240,0:22:35.039 because i just wanted it to you know it 0:22:33.840,0:22:36.559 was like at the end of the day as a 0:22:35.039,0:22:38.240 business it's profit that matters it's 0:22:36.559,0:22:41.440 not revenue right people get 0:22:38.240,0:22:43.120 that twisted sometimes um and then 0:22:41.440,0:22:44.720 what happened is that some like the 0:22:43.120,0:22:46.400 initial couple of merchants happened to 0:22:44.720,0:22:48.559 have that data 0:22:46.400,0:22:49.760 um but then as i as they started to grow 0:22:48.559,0:22:51.840 other people just didn't have it they 0:22:49.760,0:22:53.120 didn't want to put the data in 0:22:51.840,0:22:55.200 the back end they didn't want to take 0:22:53.120,0:22:57.039 the time to put their cost of goods in 0:22:55.200,0:22:58.559 so it just became kind of impractical 0:22:57.039,0:22:59.600 then i just went to charging off of 0:22:58.559,0:23:03.520 revenue 0:22:59.600,0:23:05.200 um so is the idea yeah sorry go ahead 0:23:03.520,0:23:06.640 no and i just say like that boggles my 0:23:05.200,0:23:08.080 mind by the way right 0:23:06.640,0:23:10.240 i've spoken with so many like through 0:23:08.080,0:23:12.080 conversion days like spoken with so many 0:23:10.240,0:23:13.919 business you know businesses 0:23:12.080,0:23:15.440 that can't tell me like when i asked 0:23:13.919,0:23:16.480 them listen what's your average kind of 0:23:15.440,0:23:18.640 gross margin here 0:23:16.480,0:23:19.600 like what what what's what's gross 0:23:18.640,0:23:21.600 margin right 0:23:19.600,0:23:22.720 i i don't even know how to calculate it 0:23:21.600,0:23:25.360 right and like 0:23:22.720,0:23:26.400 for me that's scary because we also know 0:23:25.360,0:23:28.000 at the same time that 0:23:26.400,0:23:29.600 the merchants don't know that or the 0:23:28.000,0:23:30.240 businesses don't know that they're 0:23:29.600,0:23:31.679 spending 0:23:30.240,0:23:33.760 loads of money whether it's on facebook 0:23:31.679,0:23:35.200 ads you know google ads whatever and i 0:23:33.760,0:23:37.840 just know like if you don't know 0:23:35.200,0:23:39.200 your gross margin there's no way whether 0:23:37.840,0:23:40.799 you really know 0:23:39.200,0:23:42.720 that this kind of acquisition channel 0:23:40.799,0:23:44.480 that you have going here is 0:23:42.720,0:23:45.919 by any means contributing positively to 0:23:44.480,0:23:47.440 the business or not right 0:23:45.919,0:23:49.120 because they're seeing those things in 0:23:47.440,0:23:49.679 silos and they're measuring it on top 0:23:49.120,0:23:52.320 line 0:23:49.679,0:23:52.720 which top-line revenue that is which 0:23:52.320,0:23:55.039 can't 0:23:52.720,0:23:56.720 like you know maybe their margins are 0:23:55.039,0:23:57.520 just so big and their unit economics and 0:23:56.720,0:24:01.440 their ads 0:23:57.520,0:24:03.120 is performing so well and it works 0:24:01.440,0:24:04.480 but that's flying blind right and like 0:24:03.120,0:24:06.559 am i like that's just not 0:24:04.480,0:24:09.440 like i don't know how i can build a 0:24:06.559,0:24:12.480 business like that for example 0:24:09.440,0:24:13.520 yeah so the idea that they'll just go in 0:24:12.480,0:24:16.080 and just plug in 0:24:13.520,0:24:18.000 their does shop like does shopify have a 0:24:16.080,0:24:20.720 way to put cost of goods directly 0:24:18.000,0:24:21.600 into the the product manager in the back 0:24:20.720,0:24:24.559 end 0:24:21.600,0:24:26.080 yeah so they it was a recent change 0:24:24.559,0:24:28.159 right so i don't know when 0:24:26.080,0:24:29.919 um so it might be like six months ago it 0:24:28.159,0:24:31.520 might be two years ago i just never 0:24:29.919,0:24:32.000 noticed it but yes every product this 0:24:31.520,0:24:35.200 thing now 0:24:32.000,0:24:36.880 has a a single cost of you know goods um 0:24:35.200,0:24:39.360 you know or i think i call it say cost 0:24:36.880,0:24:42.799 price and it's a static number which 0:24:39.360,0:24:43.440 is also like that changes right i mean 0:24:42.799,0:24:44.720 depending on 0:24:43.440,0:24:47.120 there's multiple different ways of 0:24:44.720,0:24:48.960 calculating a cost of your products 0:24:47.120,0:24:50.559 i think your moving average cost is 0:24:48.960,0:24:53.840 probably the best way to do it 0:24:50.559,0:24:55.520 um but a single static number 0:24:53.840,0:24:56.880 interestingly enough like what is moving 0:24:55.520,0:24:59.520 average cost 0:24:56.880,0:25:00.720 sorry yes no so moving energy cost in 0:24:59.520,0:25:03.760 that sense would be 0:25:00.720,0:25:05.919 um if you it essentially takes 0:25:03.760,0:25:07.360 if i order 10 that i'm going to do quick 0:25:05.919,0:25:10.480 math on air now um 0:25:07.360,0:25:11.600 which will make me look really smart or 0:25:10.480,0:25:13.760 really stupid so 0:25:11.600,0:25:14.880 so for example you ordered um you know 0:25:13.760,0:25:18.000 10 products 0:25:14.880,0:25:18.720 at 10 bucks right and another 10 same 0:25:18.000,0:25:20.400 skew right 0:25:18.720,0:25:22.799 so 10 units let's call the units 10 0:25:20.400,0:25:23.279 units at 10 bucks another 10 units at 20 0:25:22.799,0:25:26.559 bucks 0:25:23.279,0:25:28.559 you've got 20 units cost you 300 bucks 0:25:26.559,0:25:29.440 so the moving average cost there is 15 0:25:28.559,0:25:32.640 bucks it's neither 0:25:29.440,0:25:34.240 10 or 20. so you kind of average that 0:25:32.640,0:25:36.000 you you kind of average that out like 0:25:34.240,0:25:38.720 other ways of doing it 0:25:36.000,0:25:40.159 is exactly right so i think the two 0:25:38.720,0:25:41.200 other prominent ones would be either 0:25:40.159,0:25:44.640 kind of lost in 0:25:41.200,0:25:46.880 first out or first in first out right so 0:25:44.640,0:25:49.200 just taking that loss but those are 0:25:46.880,0:25:51.279 actually technically also much harder 0:25:49.200,0:25:52.880 to pull off in an inversely system so 0:25:51.279,0:25:55.120 the moving average cost 0:25:52.880,0:25:57.279 um is just a much much simpler way for 0:25:55.120,0:25:58.720 you to essentially constantly order and 0:25:57.279,0:26:01.440 reorder from your vendors 0:25:58.720,0:26:03.840 and keep that number up to date in 0:26:01.440,0:26:03.840 aggregate 0:26:05.360,0:26:11.679 and the um the uh inventory forecasting 0:26:11.200,0:26:14.880 um 0:26:11.679,0:26:16.799 how is that uh how is that going to work 0:26:14.880,0:26:18.080 are you are you using a like a pretty 0:26:16.799,0:26:20.960 basic like 0:26:18.080,0:26:23.760 uh what's it called like algorithm um to 0:26:20.960,0:26:25.120 to forecast that out 0:26:23.760,0:26:26.480 yeah and i'm thinking how much 0:26:25.120,0:26:27.120 progression that's the word i was 0:26:26.480,0:26:30.799 looking for 0:26:27.120,0:26:32.400 yeah so so yes we are 0:26:30.799,0:26:34.480 what we essentially do is we've got a 0:26:32.400,0:26:37.120 kind of you know auto machine learning 0:26:34.480,0:26:38.320 um you know mechanism that would 0:26:37.120,0:26:39.679 essentially kind of when a merchant 0:26:38.320,0:26:41.600 plugs into cogsi 0:26:39.679,0:26:43.360 we run it through that the algorithm 0:26:41.600,0:26:45.039 essentially finds through six different 0:26:43.360,0:26:47.039 kind of algorithms right 0:26:45.039,0:26:48.960 um all based on kind of regression like 0:26:47.039,0:26:49.440 time series you know based analysis 0:26:48.960,0:26:51.200 there 0:26:49.440,0:26:52.640 and finds the one that has been based on 0:26:51.200,0:26:55.600 your data is 0:26:52.640,0:26:56.400 um the most sorry the least volatile 0:26:55.600,0:26:59.679 right 0:26:56.400,0:27:01.840 um and like one of those for example is 0:26:59.679,0:27:03.600 we use facebook's profit algorithm right 0:27:01.840,0:27:06.320 which open source that's one of the 0:27:03.600,0:27:07.120 kind of the options that we use there so 0:27:06.320,0:27:08.720 to be able to 0:27:07.120,0:27:10.480 what's that one that's super interesting 0:27:08.720,0:27:13.360 i i've never heard of that 0:27:10.480,0:27:14.000 yeah so facebook profit um i i didn't 0:27:13.360,0:27:16.080 know about it 0:27:14.000,0:27:17.760 either right until i started working on 0:27:16.080,0:27:18.799 cogsy to be honest um but essentially 0:27:17.760,0:27:21.760 facebook has 0:27:18.799,0:27:23.600 created that kind of your time series 0:27:21.760,0:27:26.640 and by the way i'm not a data scientist 0:27:23.600,0:27:28.720 so um i'm butchering my kind of 0:27:26.640,0:27:29.840 my terms here but essentially what it 0:27:28.720,0:27:32.720 does is 0:27:29.840,0:27:34.399 it can look at kind of the past and it 0:27:32.720,0:27:36.399 will factor in seasonality 0:27:34.399,0:27:38.559 to make a prediction on future and you 0:27:36.399,0:27:41.679 can essentially pass it as many 0:27:38.559,0:27:45.200 um kind of nodes of information 0:27:41.679,0:27:49.200 as you want wow i gotta check that out 0:27:45.200,0:27:51.279 okay yeah open source okay 0:27:49.200,0:27:53.200 so um sorry i interrupted you serious 0:27:51.279,0:27:54.000 saying that the facebook profit was one 0:27:53.200,0:27:57.200 of the ones 0:27:54.000,0:28:00.399 that you're gonna you'd use 0:27:57.200,0:28:02.480 exactly and and to be honest um kellen 0:28:00.399,0:28:04.159 i think the the one thing that people 0:28:02.480,0:28:08.000 never get from me is i 0:28:04.159,0:28:09.440 i really dislike uh how overhyped 0:28:08.000,0:28:11.120 artificial intelligence and machine 0:28:09.440,0:28:12.880 learning is by many startups 0:28:11.120,0:28:14.480 right products especially early stage 0:28:12.880,0:28:15.840 products um 0:28:14.480,0:28:17.360 like there's many of these chatbots for 0:28:15.840,0:28:19.039 example that's just a kind of a 0:28:17.360,0:28:19.520 combination of a bunch of you know if 0:28:19.039,0:28:21.919 else 0:28:19.520,0:28:24.080 this then whatever statements right it's 0:28:21.919,0:28:26.640 not artificial intelligence right 0:28:24.080,0:28:27.679 and i have a problem with that like i i 0:28:26.640,0:28:29.440 just can't 0:28:27.679,0:28:31.679 i can't [ __ ] people to the extent 0:28:29.440,0:28:32.399 all right so to be honest like with 0:28:31.679,0:28:34.240 cogsi 0:28:32.399,0:28:35.760 we're not trying to reinvent the wheel 0:28:34.240,0:28:37.440 on forecasting we're 0:28:35.760,0:28:38.799 leaning on the shoulders of giants we're 0:28:37.440,0:28:41.360 using best practices 0:28:38.799,0:28:42.840 like that is not like we are not going 0:28:41.360,0:28:44.880 to have 0:28:42.840,0:28:46.399 like we're not going to have a 0:28:44.880,0:28:49.120 prediction algorithm that is 0:28:46.399,0:28:50.240 10 better than an alternative in market 0:28:49.120,0:28:52.480 like that's not the 0:28:50.240,0:28:53.600 usp that we have here the usp that we're 0:28:52.480,0:28:55.679 going through you know for 0:28:53.600,0:28:57.120 is the whole package right that 0:28:55.679,0:28:59.120 essentially yeah and 0:28:57.120,0:29:01.200 like the messaging and positioning is 0:28:59.120,0:29:02.080 evolving but i'm imagining causing to be 0:29:01.200,0:29:04.159 more of a 0:29:02.080,0:29:05.360 automated operations platform than 0:29:04.159,0:29:07.520 merely kind of 0:29:05.360,0:29:08.640 a kind of a prediction algorithm or 0:29:07.520,0:29:11.200 inventory management 0:29:08.640,0:29:11.760 or inventory optimization tool so yeah 0:29:11.200,0:29:13.279 like 0:29:11.760,0:29:15.039 i actually think that the forecasting 0:29:13.279,0:29:16.799 stuff is probably the least 0:29:15.039,0:29:18.640 kind of interesting things that we will 0:29:16.799,0:29:21.200 we will be doing this year 0:29:18.640,0:29:22.240 um yeah yeah it's funny because i 0:29:21.200,0:29:25.279 remember at the time 0:29:22.240,0:29:26.720 thinking that like this like they can't 0:29:25.279,0:29:29.520 be that comp like 0:29:26.720,0:29:31.039 there's got to be some um algorithms 0:29:29.520,0:29:32.000 that that are just existing that you 0:29:31.039,0:29:35.360 could plug into 0:29:32.000,0:29:37.760 to um to make some really useful 0:29:35.360,0:29:40.159 um forecasts and i remember thinking at 0:29:37.760,0:29:43.600 the time like this has got to be 0:29:40.159,0:29:47.120 really doable um so 0:29:43.600,0:29:48.720 uh yeah that's that's really cool um 0:29:47.120,0:29:50.480 so we haven't talked about the book too 0:29:48.720,0:29:54.159 much um but 0:29:50.480,0:29:56.159 but so when when is that coming out um 0:29:54.159,0:29:57.440 and what's you know what what's the uh 0:29:56.159,0:29:58.720 who like who's it going to be relevant 0:29:57.440,0:29:59.840 to what's kind of the message of the 0:29:58.720,0:30:02.960 book 0:29:59.840,0:30:03.919 yeah so firstly because it's called life 0:30:02.960,0:30:05.760 profitability 0:30:03.919,0:30:07.360 the new measure of entrepreneurial 0:30:05.760,0:30:11.360 success um 0:30:07.360,0:30:14.399 it's out on 26 january um 0:30:11.360,0:30:17.039 after a rigorous writing and publishing 0:30:14.399,0:30:17.520 process um but it's our 26th february 0:30:17.039,0:30:20.559 and 0:30:17.520,0:30:21.279 oh generally sorry and um the at the 0:30:20.559,0:30:23.600 core 0:30:21.279,0:30:24.720 um of the book what i'm essentially 0:30:23.600,0:30:26.640 doing or trying to do 0:30:24.720,0:30:28.880 and how i present the idea and the 0:30:26.640,0:30:32.399 concept of life for profitability is 0:30:28.880,0:30:35.679 as an augmented version of capitalism um 0:30:32.399,0:30:36.720 as an entrepreneur i don't think 0:30:35.679,0:30:38.720 capitalism is bad 0:30:36.720,0:30:40.000 but i also see many of its flaws and 0:30:38.720,0:30:40.640 i've experienced many of those flaws i 0:30:40.000,0:30:42.880 mean i 0:30:40.640,0:30:44.480 like we chatted earlier about kind of 0:30:42.880,0:30:46.399 you know me getting to that point of 0:30:44.480,0:30:48.080 you know almost losing all the things 0:30:46.399,0:30:50.000 that are important to me right and 0:30:48.080,0:30:51.679 and my ambition was part of that 0:30:50.000,0:30:53.600 contributing factor 0:30:51.679,0:30:54.799 and what i hope to do with life 0:30:53.600,0:30:56.399 profitability is 0:30:54.799,0:30:58.000 kind of just shift the notion of when 0:30:56.399,0:30:58.960 you think about you know either a 0:30:58.000,0:31:01.919 professional career 0:30:58.960,0:31:02.640 or building a business not just have 0:31:01.919,0:31:04.720 that thing 0:31:02.640,0:31:06.399 be financially profitable right in the 0:31:04.720,0:31:08.799 narrow sense of the word 0:31:06.399,0:31:10.080 but actually kind of you be really 0:31:08.799,0:31:10.720 profitable in the sense of your whole 0:31:10.080,0:31:12.960 life 0:31:10.720,0:31:14.080 right and like for me there's a simple 0:31:12.960,0:31:17.200 way i mean you alluded to 0:31:14.080,0:31:19.120 um how i'm trying to at least on twitter 0:31:17.200,0:31:20.320 and kind of small conversations how i've 0:31:19.120,0:31:21.840 tried to shift this 0:31:20.320,0:31:24.000 perspective on work-life balance right i 0:31:21.840,0:31:24.960 mean that for me when i think about life 0:31:24.000,0:31:27.200 profitability 0:31:24.960,0:31:28.559 i think the like it's very different to 0:31:27.200,0:31:29.200 work-life balance which i don't think 0:31:28.559,0:31:31.440 can exist 0:31:29.200,0:31:32.559 because proposing that work and life can 0:31:31.440,0:31:34.720 be imbalanced 0:31:32.559,0:31:35.760 it suggests that they are independent 0:31:34.720,0:31:37.279 opposite things 0:31:35.760,0:31:39.519 that can ultimately balance each other 0:31:37.279,0:31:41.279 out and i just believe that 0:31:39.519,0:31:42.559 like i think work is just part of life 0:31:41.279,0:31:44.880 very simply kind of 0:31:42.559,0:31:46.320 we're not i i don't believe that we're 0:31:44.880,0:31:48.559 on this earth to work 0:31:46.320,0:31:49.679 right like we work because that's how 0:31:48.559,0:31:51.200 society functions 0:31:49.679,0:31:52.880 but ultimately work is just a component 0:31:51.200,0:31:55.039 of life and the way i like to think 0:31:52.880,0:31:57.120 about life profitability thus 0:31:55.039,0:31:58.559 is kind of thinking about my life 0:31:57.120,0:32:00.159 portfolio and what i need to put in 0:31:58.559,0:32:01.919 there and my work and ambition is just 0:32:00.159,0:32:03.919 one of those things right for me 0:32:01.919,0:32:05.039 like my intro probably included those 0:32:03.919,0:32:07.039 other things why it's 0:32:05.039,0:32:08.559 um you know my family being my highest 0:32:07.039,0:32:10.320 daddy my family is important to me my 0:32:08.559,0:32:12.320 family needs to be in there 0:32:10.320,0:32:13.360 my own health you know mental emotional 0:32:12.320,0:32:15.120 physical otherwise 0:32:13.360,0:32:16.799 that's important to me um you're 0:32:15.120,0:32:17.519 drinking really good wine or really 0:32:16.799,0:32:19.120 great wine 0:32:17.519,0:32:20.960 wine that i love like those things are 0:32:19.120,0:32:22.240 important to me and i essentially need 0:32:20.960,0:32:24.640 to make sure that 0:32:22.240,0:32:25.279 that the whole life portfolio makes 0:32:24.640,0:32:28.799 sense 0:32:25.279,0:32:31.039 and turns a life profit um 0:32:28.799,0:32:31.919 yeah so that's that's the kind of fuel 0:32:31.039,0:32:34.480 i'm i'm totally 0:32:31.919,0:32:36.159 testing or and kind of your um kind of 0:32:34.480,0:32:36.799 you know iterating on on the elevator 0:32:36.159,0:32:38.720 pitch for 0:32:36.799,0:32:40.159 for the block which i've not given my 0:32:38.720,0:32:43.919 many times yet 0:32:40.159,0:32:46.240 right no that's great um yeah i mean um 0:32:43.919,0:32:48.880 it it makes sense that because work is 0:32:46.240,0:32:52.240 is a part of life so how can you 0:32:48.880,0:32:53.360 balance them against each other um and 0:32:52.240,0:32:55.360 i was thinking about what you said 0:32:53.360,0:32:56.960 earlier about like working on us 0:32:55.360,0:32:58.559 on a saturday morning or something like 0:32:56.960,0:33:01.360 that and um 0:32:58.559,0:33:01.919 i've been doing that kind of thing uh as 0:33:01.360,0:33:05.039 well 0:33:01.919,0:33:06.720 like i'm a very like routine person 0:33:05.039,0:33:08.960 so there's there are some things like 0:33:06.720,0:33:10.559 saturday you know family time we do some 0:33:08.960,0:33:12.480 stuff like for me to spend the whole 0:33:10.559,0:33:12.960 saturday working and not with the family 0:33:12.480,0:33:15.760 would be 0:33:12.960,0:33:17.360 insane whereas in the past i would just 0:33:15.760,0:33:20.559 slip into that 0:33:17.360,0:33:22.080 um but if i have like an hour 0:33:20.559,0:33:23.600 half hour where i'm feeling really 0:33:22.080,0:33:24.799 excited about something i'll do some 0:33:23.600,0:33:26.720 work and then 0:33:24.799,0:33:28.240 you know like kind of ride that energy 0:33:26.720,0:33:30.399 wave you know it's like 0:33:28.240,0:33:32.880 i'll i'll kind of go with that energy 0:33:30.399,0:33:34.720 but for a limited amount of time 0:33:32.880,0:33:36.080 and then boom right into the family time 0:33:34.720,0:33:38.640 without being 0:33:36.080,0:33:40.240 uh distracted and thinking about work 0:33:38.640,0:33:42.080 all the time you know 0:33:40.240,0:33:43.600 exactly and in that sense it's a i think 0:33:42.080,0:33:45.679 it's a like 0:33:43.600,0:33:46.960 interplay right is a much better way of 0:33:45.679,0:33:49.519 thinking about kind of 0:33:46.960,0:33:51.440 you know work and life right interplay 0:33:49.519,0:33:52.159 yeah i also think like that we spoke 0:33:51.440,0:33:53.919 about awareness 0:33:52.159,0:33:55.200 like and then having that attend an 0:33:53.919,0:33:57.919 intent like 0:33:55.200,0:33:59.679 when like when you feel that energy like 0:33:57.919,0:34:00.720 i'm going to work now that is the intent 0:33:59.679,0:34:03.039 here right and i'm 0:34:00.720,0:34:04.640 intentionally following that energy 0:34:03.039,0:34:05.519 versus as soon as i step out of my 0:34:04.640,0:34:07.679 office again and i 0:34:05.519,0:34:09.359 kind of you know go back to the family 0:34:07.679,0:34:11.839 my intention is to be present 0:34:09.359,0:34:14.000 with them right so like hence why i like 0:34:11.839,0:34:14.879 that kind of interplay of energies right 0:34:14.000,0:34:18.320 without being 0:34:14.879,0:34:20.800 too esoteric um yeah like that's 0:34:18.320,0:34:22.159 like i think those those things um like 0:34:20.800,0:34:22.879 those are the things i kind of touch on 0:34:22.159,0:34:25.040 the book and i 0:34:22.879,0:34:26.560 i also really wanted to write the kind 0:34:25.040,0:34:28.079 of book 0:34:26.560,0:34:29.919 that i didn't want to write a how-to 0:34:28.079,0:34:31.280 book because i hate how to books i 0:34:29.919,0:34:32.480 absolutely hate this idea that for 0:34:31.280,0:34:33.280 anything in life there's a perfect 0:34:32.480,0:34:34.879 blueprint and 0:34:33.280,0:34:36.480 like you can just give me a checklist of 0:34:34.879,0:34:37.200 your 10 things write a chapter about 0:34:36.480,0:34:38.320 each and then 0:34:37.200,0:34:39.679 if i implement that i'm going to 0:34:38.320,0:34:40.560 accomplish the goal that's on the cover 0:34:39.679,0:34:43.200 of the book 0:34:40.560,0:34:44.960 so with life profitability like i really 0:34:43.200,0:34:46.960 double down on this notion that 0:34:44.960,0:34:48.240 like every one of us will have to 0:34:46.960,0:34:50.720 discover our own life 0:34:48.240,0:34:52.159 profitability and yes like if you and i 0:34:50.720,0:34:53.440 did that exercise like there might be 0:34:52.159,0:34:54.320 overlaps i think there are certain 0:34:53.440,0:34:56.000 things that are 0:34:54.320,0:34:57.680 more universal but they're probably more 0:34:56.000,0:34:59.440 in the realm of like 0:34:57.680,0:35:00.800 things that's hard to quantify right 0:34:59.440,0:35:03.040 like space i think 0:35:00.800,0:35:05.440 like having space in one's life that's 0:35:03.040,0:35:07.920 an attribute of of life profitability 0:35:05.440,0:35:08.640 but how that space manifests for each of 0:35:07.920,0:35:11.520 us 0:35:08.640,0:35:12.640 is probably different right um or unique 0:35:11.520,0:35:14.160 and very specific to 0:35:12.640,0:35:16.320 our needs in our context our 0:35:14.160,0:35:18.160 environments so 0:35:16.320,0:35:19.599 like that that kind of you know again 0:35:18.160,0:35:22.000 like to your point of 0:35:19.599,0:35:23.839 you know working on a saturday like 0:35:22.000,0:35:26.079 that's like if that works for you 0:35:23.839,0:35:27.520 then that probably kind of makes sense 0:35:26.079,0:35:29.920 in your life portfolio 0:35:27.520,0:35:32.800 and then no book that i can write should 0:35:29.920,0:35:36.000 ever discourage that 0:35:32.800,0:35:38.320 yeah what is your um 0:35:36.000,0:35:40.800 what does your like mindfulness practice 0:35:38.320,0:35:40.800 look like 0:35:40.880,0:35:46.800 haphazard um so 0:35:44.079,0:35:47.599 i when i started on mindfulness journey 0:35:46.800,0:35:50.960 um 0:35:47.599,0:35:51.599 i kind of and the way i described this 0:35:50.960,0:35:52.560 for people 0:35:51.599,0:35:54.240 as well because i think there's a 0:35:52.560,0:35:55.280 misconception between mindfulness and 0:35:54.240,0:35:57.200 meditation 0:35:55.280,0:35:58.720 i think in the same way like if i wanted 0:35:57.200,0:36:01.920 bigger biceps right 0:35:58.720,0:36:02.400 i would go do bicep curls in the gym 0:36:01.920,0:36:04.560 right 0:36:02.400,0:36:05.760 and that's that extent like that's just 0:36:04.560,0:36:07.520 an exercise 0:36:05.760,0:36:09.520 that i'm doing to strengthen a muscle 0:36:07.520,0:36:11.839 and meditation in my mind 0:36:09.520,0:36:13.680 is an exercise you do to strengthen the 0:36:11.839,0:36:15.839 muscle of mindfulness that's how i 0:36:13.680,0:36:17.920 understand that so when i stumbled into 0:36:15.839,0:36:20.480 mindfulness back in the day 0:36:17.920,0:36:21.200 um like for the first year i used 0:36:20.480,0:36:23.280 headspace 0:36:21.200,0:36:24.960 right to my phone didn't break kind of 0:36:23.280,0:36:27.599 the streak meditated well 0:36:24.960,0:36:28.880 i got just short of there like 361 days 0:36:27.599,0:36:31.440 or something like that 0:36:28.880,0:36:32.720 and and all in all honestly like as soon 0:36:31.440,0:36:34.160 as i broke that streak 0:36:32.720,0:36:36.000 i knew i was never going to do this 0:36:34.160,0:36:37.200 daily again there was 0:36:36.000,0:36:38.560 there was some part of this year where 0:36:37.200,0:36:39.599 it's like oh there's too much work 0:36:38.560,0:36:42.720 getting here 0:36:39.599,0:36:45.280 but right that aside what that did was 0:36:42.720,0:36:46.320 that's i said like i've retained some of 0:36:45.280,0:36:47.359 that kind of muscle like literally in 0:36:46.320,0:36:50.000 the same way that 0:36:47.359,0:36:50.640 even you know after a physical injury 0:36:50.000,0:36:52.480 like if you're 0:36:50.640,0:36:54.400 fit there is that muscle memory like 0:36:52.480,0:36:57.359 your body remembers these things 0:36:54.400,0:36:58.160 so yeah i now kind of meditate some 0:36:57.359,0:37:01.040 mornings 0:36:58.160,0:37:02.160 right um and i meditate for 10 15 0:37:01.040,0:37:04.160 minutes 0:37:02.160,0:37:05.200 doing normal you know vipassana just 0:37:04.160,0:37:08.240 kind of breath work 0:37:05.200,0:37:09.440 stuff i kind of try and write 0:37:08.240,0:37:11.520 something in the morning some kind of 0:37:09.440,0:37:12.560 your morning pages um or 0:37:11.520,0:37:14.960 if it's not in the morning just 0:37:12.560,0:37:16.640 elsewhere um and then i've learned to 0:37:14.960,0:37:19.520 kind of meditate whilst running so 0:37:16.640,0:37:20.480 oftentimes um i won't take my headphones 0:37:19.520,0:37:22.160 out for a run 0:37:20.480,0:37:24.560 and what i'll just do is i'll literally 0:37:22.160,0:37:26.079 just count every second step that i take 0:37:24.560,0:37:28.000 and i'll just get into kind of that 0:37:26.079,0:37:28.800 groove so i think there's multiple ways 0:37:28.000,0:37:31.520 for me to 0:37:28.800,0:37:33.359 keep that muscle fit essentially and 0:37:31.520,0:37:33.920 just keep that mindfulness and awareness 0:37:33.359,0:37:36.160 about 0:37:33.920,0:37:37.680 kind of what is happening around me like 0:37:36.160,0:37:40.720 what am i thinking 0:37:37.680,0:37:41.920 what am i feeling so as i said it's i 0:37:40.720,0:37:44.160 think it's more 0:37:41.920,0:37:45.680 i call it haphazard it's like more ad 0:37:44.160,0:37:47.200 hoc right i don't have things that i 0:37:45.680,0:37:50.320 feel anymore that i 0:37:47.200,0:37:53.760 need to do every single day 0:37:50.320,0:37:57.040 to feel grounded or calm or at peace 0:37:53.760,0:37:59.920 whatever kind of work yeah yeah 0:37:57.040,0:38:00.480 yeah for me it's like um trying to 0:37:59.920,0:38:04.000 become 0:38:00.480,0:38:06.079 more aware of like how i'm feeling and 0:38:04.000,0:38:08.079 how i'm doing and if i'm 0:38:06.079,0:38:09.920 if i'm distracted one of the questions i 0:38:08.079,0:38:11.359 love in the uh tim ferriss's book tools 0:38:09.920,0:38:13.200 for titans is like what do you do when 0:38:11.359,0:38:16.320 you feel distracted 0:38:13.200,0:38:17.760 um or unfocused and a lot of people have 0:38:16.320,0:38:18.079 different approach to take a walk take a 0:38:17.760,0:38:21.599 run 0:38:18.079,0:38:25.119 whatever and it's so weird how 0:38:21.599,0:38:28.079 you can be unaware of how you're 0:38:25.119,0:38:28.800 actually feeling like it's it's such a 0:38:28.079,0:38:31.839 bizarre 0:38:28.800,0:38:33.920 thing that you can just be kind of 0:38:31.839,0:38:35.839 and there's this anxiety that's ramping 0:38:33.920,0:38:38.400 up in you but you're not even 0:38:35.839,0:38:39.839 and um it's like i'll notice myself 0:38:38.400,0:38:41.200 feeling tense more 0:38:39.839,0:38:43.119 and i'll take a deep breath and i'll be 0:38:41.200,0:38:45.520 like whoa i was like 0:38:43.119,0:38:46.240 really just like laying down watching tv 0:38:45.520,0:38:48.640 or something 0:38:46.240,0:38:49.440 and i'm tense about what i'm watching 0:38:48.640,0:38:52.800 and i'll be like 0:38:49.440,0:38:54.640 wow like i was so tense right there it's 0:38:52.800,0:38:57.040 such a strange thing 0:38:54.640,0:38:58.480 yeah yeah and that like what do you 0:38:57.040,0:39:00.079 describe there in my opinion is exactly 0:38:58.480,0:39:00.480 what mindfulness is right i think many 0:39:00.079,0:39:03.599 people 0:39:00.480,0:39:05.359 go into that notion of um you know i 0:39:03.599,0:39:06.079 need to meditate i need to be mindful 0:39:05.359,0:39:08.000 which means 0:39:06.079,0:39:09.200 i have to clear my mind of all thoughts 0:39:08.000,0:39:10.079 right everything needs to be perfect 0:39:09.200,0:39:11.920 there's this 0:39:10.079,0:39:14.240 kind of you know padded white room and 0:39:11.920,0:39:16.320 you just float into it and just kind of 0:39:14.240,0:39:17.440 at least and you kind of zen there 0:39:16.320,0:39:19.680 and that's not what it is right 0:39:17.440,0:39:21.920 mindfulness is just seeing 0:39:19.680,0:39:24.000 being aware of these things that are you 0:39:21.920,0:39:25.599 know 0:39:24.000,0:39:26.720 that are just there like i wanted to 0:39:25.599,0:39:28.880 kind of judge those things but just 0:39:26.720,0:39:29.200 seeing them in a non-judgmental way and 0:39:28.880,0:39:31.200 just 0:39:29.200,0:39:32.800 acknowledging them right and sometimes 0:39:31.200,0:39:35.040 it is not about even taking an action 0:39:32.800,0:39:36.480 just saying well you know what that is 0:39:35.040,0:39:38.960 you know that is so i 0:39:36.480,0:39:40.079 i think the the most fun story that i 0:39:38.960,0:39:42.160 have in this regard 0:39:40.079,0:39:43.119 is in the year that i stumbled into 0:39:42.160,0:39:46.160 mindfulness 0:39:43.119,0:39:49.119 i also ran my first and only marathon 0:39:46.160,0:39:49.920 and i'm a like i'm a big boned guy at 0:39:49.119,0:39:52.640 least right i 0:39:49.920,0:39:53.119 i'm not built for for long distances and 0:39:52.640,0:39:56.560 i 0:39:53.119,0:39:59.520 i ran 2000 kilometers that year um 0:39:56.560,0:40:01.119 did a sub for kind of marathon and due 0:39:59.520,0:40:02.640 to kind of the story where and i'm not 0:40:01.119,0:40:04.319 gonna tell the whole story of how 0:40:02.640,0:40:06.240 buddha became buddha right but where 0:40:04.319,0:40:08.319 he's sitting under the bodhi tree 0:40:06.240,0:40:09.440 and then eventually mara the demon you 0:40:08.319,0:40:10.720 know comes and 0:40:09.440,0:40:13.119 she comes to tempt him because he's 0:40:10.720,0:40:14.960 there and he's trying to be mindful 0:40:13.119,0:40:16.800 trying to meditate and and maura 0:40:14.960,0:40:19.040 constantly comes back and he eventually 0:40:16.800,0:40:20.640 he just says hey mara i see you and he 0:40:19.040,0:40:22.079 actually says tomorrow 0:40:20.640,0:40:24.160 come have tea with me come sit down 0:40:22.079,0:40:25.040 right and he invites this kind of 0:40:24.160,0:40:27.440 negative thing 0:40:25.040,0:40:28.880 in and with the marathon what i 0:40:27.440,0:40:30.319 literally did was 0:40:28.880,0:40:33.119 every single kilometer as soon as my 0:40:30.319,0:40:35.440 watch beeped right i would just say 0:40:33.119,0:40:37.440 hey mara i see you and that was that was 0:40:35.440,0:40:40.880 just that very simple thing for me 0:40:37.440,0:40:42.880 saying you know what new kilometer 0:40:40.880,0:40:44.480 i don't know what this kilometer holds 0:40:42.880,0:40:46.000 i've heard about this wall that's coming 0:40:44.480,0:40:46.720 up where everything in my body is gonna 0:40:46.000,0:40:49.599 break down 0:40:46.720,0:40:49.920 i've never been there but hey i see you 0:40:49.599,0:40:51.839 like 0:40:49.920,0:40:53.440 i know you're there and that's okay like 0:40:51.839,0:40:55.280 i'm not gonna judge you i'm just gonna 0:40:53.440,0:40:56.480 keep on putting one foot you know in 0:40:55.280,0:40:58.480 front of the other and i think 0:40:56.480,0:40:59.520 like that's right in my mind is that 0:40:58.480,0:41:02.400 sometimes 0:40:59.520,0:41:03.680 these things sound very esoteric but 0:41:02.400,0:41:06.800 it's it's just that 0:41:03.680,0:41:10.160 it's just seeing what is already there 0:41:06.800,0:41:13.520 yeah what is it like to be building 0:41:10.160,0:41:14.640 a company a sas product in like this 0:41:13.520,0:41:16.880 like 0:41:14.640,0:41:18.480 mindful way it's like a lot of times 0:41:16.880,0:41:20.400 like the pattern is 0:41:18.480,0:41:22.400 you build the thing you're anxious 0:41:20.400,0:41:24.240 you're working 0:41:22.400,0:41:26.079 you get the success and then you're like 0:41:24.240,0:41:28.000 oh i need to learn to relax 0:41:26.079,0:41:29.280 and then you you know like you go off 0:41:28.000,0:41:30.240 and do something else you become an 0:41:29.280,0:41:34.000 author you become 0:41:30.240,0:41:36.240 like i love the interview with leo um 0:41:34.000,0:41:38.960 windrick of buffer uh and how he's 0:41:36.240,0:41:40.960 transitioning into coaching and stuff 0:41:38.960,0:41:42.480 but then like for you to be building 0:41:40.960,0:41:45.440 something from the ground up 0:41:42.480,0:41:47.280 and doing it in like a fully you know 0:41:45.440,0:41:50.160 kind of mindful way 0:41:47.280,0:41:51.119 uh what's that like you know like like 0:41:50.160,0:41:53.200 are you 0:41:51.119,0:41:55.040 like do you get stressed out when you're 0:41:53.200,0:41:56.640 working like do you get into that 0:41:55.040,0:41:57.920 different state of mind that different 0:41:56.640,0:42:01.119 mode or 0:41:57.920,0:42:02.800 is it pretty balanced no i 0:42:01.119,0:42:04.720 i don't think it's i don't think it's 0:42:02.800,0:42:07.680 balanced right so and um 0:42:04.720,0:42:09.280 like the best story i have is i had some 0:42:07.680,0:42:11.200 late night calls last night 0:42:09.280,0:42:12.800 because i live in a beautiful country 0:42:11.200,0:42:15.119 but the time zone is crappy 0:42:12.800,0:42:16.720 relative to like the center of the 0:42:15.119,0:42:17.599 universe which is obviously the united 0:42:16.720,0:42:19.680 states 0:42:17.599,0:42:20.960 um of america right so i had late night 0:42:19.680,0:42:23.040 calls and this morning when i 0:42:20.960,0:42:24.480 caught up with my wife and she asked 0:42:23.040,0:42:26.720 how's it called bubba how are you 0:42:24.480,0:42:29.040 feeling now and i said you know what 0:42:26.720,0:42:29.760 it feels like kante is in limbo right 0:42:29.040,0:42:31.599 and 0:42:29.760,0:42:32.880 like lumber was just the word i used cox 0:42:31.599,0:42:34.640 isn't really in limbo 0:42:32.880,0:42:35.839 but that's how it feels like and she 0:42:34.640,0:42:37.200 called me on it like she said listen 0:42:35.839,0:42:39.920 you're like you need to change this 0:42:37.200,0:42:41.599 language like this is not helpful to you 0:42:39.920,0:42:43.040 but i tell this story because that's 0:42:41.599,0:42:45.760 still sometimes how it feels 0:42:43.040,0:42:46.960 right it's still like i'm still this 0:42:45.760,0:42:50.240 ambitious guy that 0:42:46.960,0:42:52.319 sometimes wants to accomplish 80 hours 0:42:50.240,0:42:54.240 worth of your work a week or progress 0:42:52.319,0:42:56.400 make 80 hours worth of progress week 0:42:54.240,0:42:57.680 even when i rationally know that no 0:42:56.400,0:42:59.839 smart person 0:42:57.680,0:43:02.480 has that much productive hours in them 0:42:59.839,0:43:05.280 right no knowledge worker at least 0:43:02.480,0:43:06.880 um plus i know that's kind of the 0:43:05.280,0:43:08.000 collateral damage that that creates for 0:43:06.880,0:43:09.680 me for my family 0:43:08.000,0:43:11.280 for my friends you know people that are 0:43:09.680,0:43:13.200 close to me um 0:43:11.280,0:43:14.560 so i know i said rationing i know all 0:43:13.200,0:43:16.880 these things now 0:43:14.560,0:43:19.359 and yet i still find myself figuring 0:43:16.880,0:43:22.720 those things out and again like i think 0:43:19.359,0:43:24.000 my gut feel here is i don't think that 0:43:22.720,0:43:25.839 will ever go away 0:43:24.000,0:43:27.599 when you're ambitious when you're doing 0:43:25.839,0:43:30.480 something that means a lot to you 0:43:27.599,0:43:32.000 again like i think the ego just needs to 0:43:30.480,0:43:32.640 be acknowledged right if there was no 0:43:32.000,0:43:34.560 ego 0:43:32.640,0:43:35.839 we would not have makers we would not 0:43:34.560,0:43:36.640 have created we would not have 0:43:35.839,0:43:37.920 innovators 0:43:36.640,0:43:39.839 we would not have authors we wouldn't 0:43:37.920,0:43:41.440 have these things we would have no i 0:43:39.839,0:43:44.640 have no progress because why 0:43:41.440,0:43:45.119 like why would you do that so i think 0:43:44.640,0:43:47.280 like 0:43:45.119,0:43:48.240 that is always part of the equation and 0:43:47.280,0:43:50.400 i've not 0:43:48.240,0:43:51.280 kind of completely figured out for 0:43:50.400,0:43:53.920 myself 0:43:51.280,0:43:55.440 all i know is at least part of my own 0:43:53.920,0:43:57.680 life profitability here is 0:43:55.440,0:43:59.359 i now spot those things sooner the 0:43:57.680,0:44:00.319 things where i'm compromising the things 0:43:59.359,0:44:02.160 that are leading to 0:44:00.319,0:44:04.560 kind of you know greater life costs or 0:44:02.160,0:44:06.160 life losses i spot them sooner 0:44:04.560,0:44:08.079 and i can take corrective action or it 0:44:06.160,0:44:11.359 can take alternative action at least 0:44:08.079,0:44:15.200 so that is what it feels like like i am 0:44:11.359,0:44:16.800 i'm just as ambitious as before like no 0:44:15.200,0:44:19.200 like it's to some extent like no amount 0:44:16.800,0:44:20.000 of success makes me less ambitious 0:44:19.200,0:44:22.000 because 0:44:20.000,0:44:23.440 again like um and i mentioned challenges 0:44:22.000,0:44:24.240 earlier like money itself does not 0:44:23.440,0:44:26.640 motivate me 0:44:24.240,0:44:27.680 like other things motivate me right the 0:44:26.640,0:44:29.599 yeah so anyway 0:44:27.680,0:44:31.680 there's a whole tangent there but to 0:44:29.599,0:44:33.280 your point like to your question 0:44:31.680,0:44:34.800 like the only thing that's really 0:44:33.280,0:44:37.839 changed is 0:44:34.800,0:44:38.640 my ability to be aware of the things 0:44:37.839,0:44:42.240 that are not great 0:44:38.640,0:44:45.520 much sooner than i was in the past right 0:44:42.240,0:44:47.359 right that's awesome man 0:44:45.520,0:44:48.839 well this has been a great little chat i 0:44:47.359,0:44:50.480 appreciate it appreciate you taking the 0:44:48.839,0:44:52.880 time um 0:44:50.480,0:44:54.319 where's the best place for people to uh 0:44:52.880,0:44:55.760 you know follow you online 0:44:54.319,0:44:58.400 find out more about all the stuff that 0:44:55.760,0:45:00.560 you got going on yeah so um 0:44:58.400,0:45:02.720 best part for you is my personal website 0:45:00.560,0:45:06.319 ad dot me a double i 0:45:02.720,0:45:07.680 me 80 because i decided on nickname when 0:45:06.319,0:45:09.359 in the year that the wii had come out so 0:45:07.680,0:45:09.839 i thought i was being clever and now i 0:45:09.359,0:45:12.400 need to 0:45:09.839,0:45:13.200 always what is this nickname thing i 0:45:12.400,0:45:14.880 feel like i remember 0:45:13.200,0:45:16.880 i heard you on one podcast saying 0:45:14.880,0:45:18.000 something about your name is a made-up 0:45:16.880,0:45:20.880 name or something i was like 0:45:18.000,0:45:21.760 is that i don't even remember if i is it 0:45:20.880,0:45:23.599 yeah so 0:45:21.760,0:45:25.520 so so i my my birth name so i'm 0:45:23.599,0:45:26.800 afrikaans right my first language which 0:45:25.520,0:45:28.800 is very similar to dutch 0:45:26.800,0:45:30.640 for those in north america so my birth 0:45:28.800,0:45:32.880 name is adrian 0:45:30.640,0:45:34.400 and even i like my tongue does not roll 0:45:32.880,0:45:35.760 the same way in english so 0:45:34.400,0:45:38.319 like the obvious thing would have been 0:45:35.760,0:45:40.480 to use adrian 0:45:38.319,0:45:42.800 i just hate adrian so i was like no i'm 0:45:40.480,0:45:44.880 not going to do that so the simon 80 0:45:42.800,0:45:46.240 initially called myself rockstar so 0:45:44.880,0:45:48.240 didn't even call myself 0:45:46.240,0:45:50.319 my real surname for the longest time 0:45:48.240,0:45:52.319 kind of building you know with commerce 0:45:50.319,0:45:55.520 i was just known as 80 rockstar 0:45:52.319,0:45:57.520 um but yeah so now now i'm 80 0:45:55.520,0:45:58.720 so anyway personal personal website a 0:45:57.520,0:46:00.720 double i.m.e 0:45:58.720,0:46:02.800 and that's also where the podcast lives 0:46:00.720,0:46:04.960 the book all the details are there 0:46:02.800,0:46:06.240 and for anyone that wants to kind of 0:46:04.960,0:46:07.680 turn more of their working capital if 0:46:06.240,0:46:09.440 your e-commerce brand wants to turn your 0:46:07.680,0:46:11.200 kind of working capital into cash and 0:46:09.440,0:46:12.640 use that like either kind of buy 0:46:11.200,0:46:13.359 yourself something nice or reinvest it 0:46:12.640,0:46:15.440 into 0:46:13.359,0:46:16.560 growth things you can have a look at 0:46:15.440,0:46:18.319 cogsy.com 0:46:16.560,0:46:20.319 we'll be launching the first version 0:46:18.319,0:46:25.040 publicly probably in the next 0:46:20.319,0:46:25.040 two or three weeks