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#104 Cost Of Goods Sold (COGS) Data & Inventory Forecasting With Cogsy | Adii Pienaar

Had a chance to sit down with Adii Pienaar here - the founder of WooCommerce and Conversio. He just had a new book come out and is building a new SaaS product.

We talked about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, his 2 exits, the book Life Profitability, as well as the new startup he is building - Cogsy.

Cogsy is a SaaS in the eCommerce space to help merchants get a better handle on their Cost Of Goods Sold (COGS) data. It will also help with sell-side and buy-side inventory optimization.

Adii is a super interesting, very warm, kind, and thoughtful person. I hope you enjoy it!

Twitter: https://twitter.com/adii

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adiipienaar/

Full transcript: https://v3.commercehero.io/podcast/104

Transcript
0:00:00.160,0:00:03.120
one of the biggest challenges we've

0:00:01.599,0:00:06.080
always had in her business

0:00:03.120,0:00:07.279
is just getting good cogs data literally

0:00:06.080,0:00:17.050
cost of goods sold

0:00:07.279,0:00:24.059
do that in a reliable manner

0:00:17.050,0:00:24.059
[Music]

0:00:25.439,0:00:28.800
80 how you doing buddy i'm really good

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it's

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really great to to finally be here ken

0:00:31.599,0:00:35.520
yeah man it's great to chat i

0:00:33.520,0:00:37.120
um have listened to i feel like eight or

0:00:35.520,0:00:40.320
nine of your podcast

0:00:37.120,0:00:42.800
episodes uh life profitability

0:00:40.320,0:00:44.399
and um and have really enjoyed them you

0:00:42.800,0:00:47.280
tend to ask people

0:00:44.399,0:00:48.640
how they introduce themselves and

0:00:47.280,0:00:49.840
whenever i'm listening to that i'm

0:00:48.640,0:00:51.440
thinking of myself and then you'll have

0:00:49.840,0:00:53.120
a whole conversation around it the

0:00:51.440,0:00:54.719
labels they use and things like that

0:00:53.120,0:00:56.239
and i'm like i want to know how you

0:00:54.719,0:00:57.039
introduce yourself so that's that's the

0:00:56.239,0:00:59.840
first question

0:00:57.039,0:01:01.199
is is how do you introduce yourself oh

0:00:59.840,0:01:03.120
thanks for putting me on the spot

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um but it's totally fair because because

0:01:03.120,0:01:05.680
you're right like that is exactly the

0:01:04.640,0:01:09.200
way i start every

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every podcast um i guess these days

0:01:09.200,0:01:14.159
i introduce myself as a entrepreneur

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that has built and sold to software

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businesses currently working on a new

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software business and i'm also a soon to

0:01:19.840,0:01:23.119
be published author

0:01:21.759,0:01:25.119
and beyond that like things that i'm

0:01:23.119,0:01:27.520
proud of um i'm a husband

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i'm a dad i consider myself a family man

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um

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and i'm 100 a wine snob which i balance

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out by

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also running a lot when i'm not injured

0:01:35.920,0:01:39.600
really so you're a big wine your big

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wine guy

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i like i'm a wine geek right looks

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beyond the taste

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um and just the kind of obviously the

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buzz that comes with alcohol right like

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i

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i totally geek out on like all aspects

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about the wine

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you know from the actual making the kind

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of the heritage there of

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the family stories that normally come

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with that um you know all the way to

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kind of the branding and the business

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components

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you know to that um it's just this

0:02:01.520,0:02:04.799
incredibly kind of nice

0:02:02.960,0:02:06.719
almost melting pot of so many different

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perspectives in a bottle in a single

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bottle and then

0:02:07.520,0:02:11.200
it's obviously amplified by you know the

0:02:09.679,0:02:12.959
company whether that's me listening to

0:02:11.200,0:02:14.080
some leonard cohen late at night when i

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should be sleeping

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um or having kind of my best mates and

0:02:17.200,0:02:20.480
and over and then sharing you know a

0:02:18.800,0:02:22.239
bottle of wine so yeah just

0:02:20.480,0:02:24.000
like it does wine does all of those

0:02:22.239,0:02:26.239
things for me

0:02:24.000,0:02:27.360
that's really cool i wish i was a wine

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snob like it's like

0:02:27.360,0:02:31.120
that's like a classy thing to be into

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but i'm like one of these guys

0:02:31.120,0:02:34.160
give me whatever white wine you have

0:02:32.800,0:02:36.400
it's fine like yeah

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i'm like a margarita guy i'm like the

0:02:36.400,0:02:40.480
most uninteresting guy at you know when

0:02:38.879,0:02:43.519
it comes to alcohol

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um so i'm a little jealous there

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there's always a start by the way

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there's always a start yeah

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uh so um what like you're doing a lot of

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things right you've got

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the the podcast um the book

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um the business that you're building

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cogsi

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um what is like you know you're you're

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in you're like a very

0:03:05.680,0:03:09.120
i wanna talk about work-life balance

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right which you're trying to kind of re

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brand that term um but you're like a

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very

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like balanced guy and you've gone

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through these phases of like

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work work work work work and then you've

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talked about like

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hitting burnout and and sabbatical stuff

0:03:22.159,0:03:26.080
and like finding balance so like what is

0:03:24.959,0:03:28.319
your

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um what does your schedule look like day

0:03:28.319,0:03:31.519
to day what is like your mind space look

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like

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as you're d you know doing all these

0:03:33.040,0:03:36.480
different things yeah

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i think the kind of the latter part is

0:03:36.480,0:03:41.920
probably easier to answer i can which is

0:03:39.280,0:03:43.920
um in terms of mind space i i try and

0:03:41.920,0:03:46.879
focus on things that

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uh like i try and follow my energy right

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and

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i know as kind of esoteric as that

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sounds right i

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i think i've learned over the years that

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if something doesn't feel right

0:03:54.799,0:03:58.959
like there's probably something off and

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i think that's probably the

0:03:58.959,0:04:02.159
the best thing that i've learned in the

0:04:00.239,0:04:03.120
last couple of years and um you know

0:04:02.159,0:04:06.480
when i say the best thing

0:04:03.120,0:04:08.560
is it raised to mindfulness um that i

0:04:06.480,0:04:10.879
stumbled into literally at a time in my

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life about four years ago where

0:04:10.879,0:04:14.400
my whole life fell apart right and the

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thing that i learned through mindfulness

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is just this

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this awareness of things like you're

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just catching you know this

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you know the thought train or train of

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thoughts before it becomes a bigger

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thing and i think that's how i feel

0:04:24.000,0:04:28.080
about energy

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so when i think about working

0:04:28.080,0:04:32.960
and and i think about my ambition like

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that's what i try and follow like

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um and i just try and you know find

0:04:36.240,0:04:42.160
some good tension between having habits

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routines having some structure right and

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and more around having space

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like that's what i try and create every

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single day i try and create some space

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which

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kind of translates both ways which is i

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will have some

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scheduled things in my kind of work day

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whereas i will have some free space to

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to fill up in whatever way i see

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possible but it also relates to

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how kind of that interplay between you

0:05:01.440,0:05:05.440
know 80 being at work and 80 being

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because i work for i i work from home

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like exclusively even european pandemic

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right so how

0:05:08.639,0:05:12.320
kind of 80 the the work 80 that we work

0:05:10.720,0:05:12.880
mindset it kind of bleeds into the rest

0:05:12.320,0:05:15.919
of my life

0:05:12.880,0:05:16.639
at home with my family right um so i try

0:05:15.919,0:05:17.840
and follow

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kind of have the space have the

0:05:17.840,0:05:22.800
structure but then follow energy and if

0:05:19.759,0:05:23.360
the energy is off then i back off

0:05:22.800,0:05:24.880
literally

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right and sometimes when the energy is

0:05:24.880,0:05:28.400
there i also follow that which which

0:05:27.440,0:05:30.160
often means like

0:05:28.400,0:05:31.680
sometimes like the thing i love on a

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saturday or sunday morning

0:05:31.680,0:05:35.280
is you know after a run for example or

0:05:33.759,0:05:37.919
after doing something with family

0:05:35.280,0:05:38.720
the house will be quiet my mind will be

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quiet

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and i'll just feel at peace and i'll

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actually sit down and i'll bash out like

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an hour hour and a half

0:05:43.120,0:05:46.639
worth of work right and that on the

0:05:45.120,0:05:47.199
surface that sounds very contradictory

0:05:46.639,0:05:49.199
to this

0:05:47.199,0:05:50.639
don't work on weekends like you know

0:05:49.199,0:05:53.440
you're a workaholic but yeah

0:05:50.639,0:05:54.960
actually that's that's me pursuing just

0:05:53.440,0:05:58.960
that energy that i have

0:05:54.960,0:06:00.319
in that moment effectively yeah yeah

0:05:58.960,0:06:01.840
that's so interesting dude there's so

0:06:00.319,0:06:03.360
many things i want to jump into there

0:06:01.840,0:06:05.039
that the energy thing is something i've

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been thinking about like almost non-stop

0:06:05.039,0:06:09.199
i've been doing this like

0:06:06.240,0:06:11.039
uh daily journaling exercise for 30 days

0:06:09.199,0:06:11.600
actually today was day 30 so i'm finally

0:06:11.039,0:06:14.479
done

0:06:11.600,0:06:16.000
but it was basically every day what are

0:06:14.479,0:06:18.080
the things that you fill you with

0:06:16.000,0:06:19.360
enthusiasm or i think about that as like

0:06:18.080,0:06:20.880
give you energy

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what are the things that drain your

0:06:20.880,0:06:23.600
energy and what did you learn about

0:06:22.560,0:06:25.759
yourself

0:06:23.600,0:06:26.960
um and i've been doing that every day

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and it's been

0:06:26.960,0:06:30.080
i think i've been learning about what

0:06:28.639,0:06:31.600
are what are the things i need to focus

0:06:30.080,0:06:34.240
on and that's

0:06:31.600,0:06:36.080
kind of trained me to think that way in

0:06:34.240,0:06:38.560
my day-to-day like

0:06:36.080,0:06:39.680
and so i'm i'm like constantly thinking

0:06:38.560,0:06:42.160
about that

0:06:39.680,0:06:44.000
um but but i was curious you mentioned

0:06:42.160,0:06:45.199
like your life almost fell apart and i

0:06:44.000,0:06:47.440
think you talked a little bit about that

0:06:45.199,0:06:49.599
on some of the podcasts you've done

0:06:47.440,0:06:51.440
uh but i was curious to know a little

0:06:49.599,0:06:52.479
bit more about what that looked like

0:06:51.440,0:06:55.280
you know to the extent that you're

0:06:52.479,0:06:57.120
comfortable you know sharing yeah

0:06:55.280,0:06:58.720
i mean i think kind of the the biggest

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component there were there was

0:06:58.720,0:07:03.039
was that um that i convinced myself that

0:07:00.800,0:07:05.599
i needed to divorce my wife right and

0:07:03.039,0:07:06.160
um you know last year for example like

0:07:05.599,0:07:08.639
we

0:07:06.160,0:07:10.319
last year we were married 10 years and

0:07:08.639,0:07:13.039
like getting to that point and i mean

0:07:10.319,0:07:13.759
i think that's like you know divorce and

0:07:13.039,0:07:15.919
all the kind of

0:07:13.759,0:07:17.599
subsequent dominoes that fall over as a

0:07:15.919,0:07:18.080
result of that is significant right i

0:07:17.599,0:07:20.720
mean it

0:07:18.080,0:07:22.000
you know in an instant um you know one's

0:07:20.720,0:07:24.720
life

0:07:22.000,0:07:25.919
can change immeasurably right so and i

0:07:24.720,0:07:28.800
said i

0:07:25.919,0:07:31.120
you know the reason i um kind of and

0:07:28.800,0:07:31.840
i've always kind of used euphemisms

0:07:31.120,0:07:34.160
around that

0:07:31.840,0:07:35.919
um so well then for for whatever you've

0:07:34.160,0:07:38.960
done to pull that out of me

0:07:35.919,0:07:40.319
um and i mean that as a compliment by

0:07:38.960,0:07:43.039
the way um

0:07:40.319,0:07:44.560
i think like the point being in that and

0:07:43.039,0:07:45.919
the reason i found myself there where i

0:07:44.560,0:07:46.560
thought that this was the only solution

0:07:45.919,0:07:49.120
is i

0:07:46.560,0:07:50.720
like i was you know my therapist helped

0:07:49.120,0:07:52.400
me understand that my mind was on fire

0:07:50.720,0:07:53.599
like constantly i was constantly in this

0:07:52.400,0:07:55.759
fight-or-flight mode

0:07:53.599,0:07:56.960
right which is as an entrepreneur that's

0:07:55.759,0:07:58.639
ambitious

0:07:56.960,0:08:00.560
that's great right because that fires it

0:07:58.639,0:08:02.080
like you literally kind of you go go go

0:08:00.560,0:08:04.319
right because the mind works

0:08:02.080,0:08:05.599
really well in that way but then for

0:08:04.319,0:08:08.319
other things like

0:08:05.599,0:08:08.960
things that tend to be non-obvious or

0:08:08.319,0:08:12.479
softer

0:08:08.960,0:08:14.960
or um just not this kind of linear path

0:08:12.479,0:08:16.319
it doesn't work really well um and i

0:08:14.960,0:08:17.199
literally backed myself in a corner of

0:08:16.319,0:08:19.199
that way

0:08:17.199,0:08:20.960
where i thought that the only way kind

0:08:19.199,0:08:22.479
of

0:08:20.960,0:08:23.919
yeah i wouldn't i'm not gonna say that

0:08:22.479,0:08:26.000
like the only way to get out of the

0:08:23.919,0:08:27.199
corner was in that sense to separate to

0:08:26.000,0:08:29.680
divorce right

0:08:27.199,0:08:31.360
which which i now know is like that

0:08:29.680,0:08:33.599
thinking was totally subpar like

0:08:31.360,0:08:34.640
that that was never the solution because

0:08:33.599,0:08:36.719
ultimately

0:08:34.640,0:08:38.080
i would have still been stuck after that

0:08:36.719,0:08:38.959
with myself i just would not have a

0:08:38.080,0:08:41.919
spouse to

0:08:38.959,0:08:42.719
to blame my issues on essentially right

0:08:41.919,0:08:46.000
right

0:08:42.719,0:08:47.760
right man that's um

0:08:46.000,0:08:49.519
yeah that's that's heavy i mean it's

0:08:47.760,0:08:51.920
such a um

0:08:49.519,0:08:53.200
it's such a common thing right it's it's

0:08:51.920,0:08:55.200
one of those things that

0:08:53.200,0:08:56.880
i don't know what the number is over 50

0:08:55.200,0:08:59.920
and it's so

0:08:56.880,0:09:00.800
easy to be uh frustrated with things i

0:08:59.920,0:09:02.540
know myself

0:09:00.800,0:09:04.000
i've been um

0:09:02.540,0:09:07.120
[Music]

0:09:04.000,0:09:08.640
seeing that likes like like getting a

0:09:07.120,0:09:10.399
little bit of that with like mindfulness

0:09:08.640,0:09:12.800
and stuff that outside perspective of

0:09:10.399,0:09:14.640
where i'm frustrated with something

0:09:12.800,0:09:16.399
and then you can start to see when it's

0:09:14.640,0:09:19.839
you and it's not them

0:09:16.399,0:09:23.120
and um and stuff like that and uh

0:09:19.839,0:09:26.320
been uh been thinking about that a lot

0:09:23.120,0:09:29.839
um but that's that's powerful man

0:09:26.320,0:09:31.600
i mean it's it's interesting how as

0:09:29.839,0:09:33.440
as entrepreneurs you know you get this

0:09:31.600,0:09:35.680
level of success and then

0:09:33.440,0:09:36.959
it's like you you run into a wall it

0:09:35.680,0:09:38.399
seems to be a pattern

0:09:36.959,0:09:39.920
you know like you think that you're

0:09:38.399,0:09:40.640
going to sell the business and go live

0:09:39.920,0:09:43.040
on a beach

0:09:40.640,0:09:44.880
happily ever after and it never quite

0:09:43.040,0:09:47.200
happens you know

0:09:44.880,0:09:48.480
yeah i don't know what that's about yeah

0:09:47.200,0:09:49.680
well

0:09:48.480,0:09:52.000
you know what kind i think like the

0:09:49.680,0:09:54.880
biggest um you know problem because i

0:09:52.000,0:09:56.480
i recently went through that exam exact

0:09:54.880,0:09:59.200
same kind of thought process again

0:09:56.480,0:10:00.480
right i um i mean i sold conversion to

0:09:59.200,0:10:03.440
campaign monitor

0:10:00.480,0:10:05.360
august 2019 um i spent a little bit more

0:10:03.440,0:10:06.480
than a year with campaign monitor after

0:10:05.360,0:10:08.399
the acquisition

0:10:06.480,0:10:10.480
um you know left them september last

0:10:08.399,0:10:11.519
year and like during those kind of last

0:10:10.480,0:10:13.279
couple of months when

0:10:11.519,0:10:15.040
when i knew that it was about time that

0:10:13.279,0:10:16.480
i was going to leave i started doing

0:10:15.040,0:10:18.320
that thought experience like what a

0:10:16.480,0:10:20.160
what do i want like what do i want to do

0:10:18.320,0:10:22.560
next right because at that stage

0:10:20.160,0:10:23.760
um i've had the literally the financial

0:10:22.560,0:10:25.680
success

0:10:23.760,0:10:27.279
to basically decide what i want to do a

0:10:25.680,0:10:28.640
very privileged position right

0:10:27.279,0:10:30.560
so i went through this whole thought

0:10:28.640,0:10:32.720
experiment of hey

0:10:30.560,0:10:33.920
like i i've already been at that stage

0:10:32.720,0:10:35.440
when i left cambodia

0:10:33.920,0:10:37.519
i think the book was pretty much done

0:10:35.440,0:10:41.120
and final editing for example

0:10:37.519,0:10:42.640
um so i figured like okay i can push the

0:10:41.120,0:10:44.320
book i could become like

0:10:42.640,0:10:46.240
you know book author slash keynote

0:10:44.320,0:10:48.000
speaker run workshops

0:10:46.240,0:10:49.600
you know that kind of thing but that is

0:10:48.000,0:10:51.839
interesting right um

0:10:49.600,0:10:53.519
i already do some some coaching within

0:10:51.839,0:10:55.600
dan martell's sas academy

0:10:53.519,0:10:57.519
coaching other founders i enjoy that

0:10:55.600,0:10:58.880
thought about adding that or doing that

0:10:57.519,0:11:01.519
to more of that

0:10:58.880,0:11:02.320
um you know adding consultancy there

0:11:01.519,0:11:04.160
perhaps

0:11:02.320,0:11:05.600
um so we kind of looked at multiple

0:11:04.160,0:11:08.640
different things and

0:11:05.600,0:11:10.959
i i eventually decided

0:11:08.640,0:11:12.320
that hey i want to build a new sas

0:11:10.959,0:11:14.000
business um

0:11:12.320,0:11:16.880
so i should look for ideas and a big

0:11:14.000,0:11:20.800
part of why sas ultimately beyond the

0:11:16.880,0:11:23.040
actual idea of cogsi right was all about

0:11:20.800,0:11:24.000
i felt like those other paths i and by

0:11:23.040,0:11:25.200
the way but

0:11:24.000,0:11:26.720
now i think of it the other path that i

0:11:25.200,0:11:27.839
consider was just going down the

0:11:26.720,0:11:30.000
investment route

0:11:27.839,0:11:31.519
just actively kind of you know investing

0:11:30.000,0:11:33.760
at this stage my my own

0:11:31.519,0:11:35.519
and other people's money probably right

0:11:33.760,0:11:38.560
and the reason why i

0:11:35.519,0:11:40.399
always decided against that was i love

0:11:38.560,0:11:42.240
building a team i love having kind of

0:11:40.399,0:11:43.920
people around me that have

0:11:42.240,0:11:45.600
shared passion and shared vision and

0:11:43.920,0:11:47.120
this interest in this idea and i didn't

0:11:45.600,0:11:48.399
feel like those other paths that i would

0:11:47.120,0:11:51.040
be able to get that

0:11:48.399,0:11:53.120
and for me at least that's part of that

0:11:51.040,0:11:55.200
equation so when you ask a question of

0:11:53.120,0:11:56.800
like entrepreneur running to you know

0:11:55.200,0:11:58.480
against the wall or getting to

0:11:56.800,0:12:00.160
the top of a you know a mountain and

0:11:58.480,0:12:01.600
then seeking out a new mountain

0:12:00.160,0:12:03.360
i at least know that one of those

0:12:01.600,0:12:04.560
reasons why i always seek out the new

0:12:03.360,0:12:07.279
mountain to climb

0:12:04.560,0:12:07.600
is kind of that team um idea that i have

0:12:07.279,0:12:09.600
there

0:12:07.600,0:12:11.040
that i know that um the other thing that

0:12:09.600,0:12:13.440
comes to mind is i

0:12:11.040,0:12:14.720
like i actually thrive on a challenge

0:12:13.440,0:12:16.639
like that's what kind of

0:12:14.720,0:12:18.000
makes me want to build businesses

0:12:16.639,0:12:18.880
because the challenge part is very much

0:12:18.000,0:12:21.200
aligned with

0:12:18.880,0:12:23.200
my curiosity my thirst for learning so

0:12:21.200,0:12:25.760
those are the things

0:12:23.200,0:12:27.040
that that i've come to know about myself

0:12:25.760,0:12:28.320
that i'm very aware about and that's how

0:12:27.040,0:12:31.279
i essentially pick

0:12:28.320,0:12:31.279
what i do next

0:12:32.000,0:12:37.279
i love it um the um

0:12:35.360,0:12:39.200
the cogsi thing is super interesting so

0:12:37.279,0:12:42.160
i um

0:12:39.200,0:12:43.600
uh so cogsi does sort of inventory

0:12:42.160,0:12:46.320
optimization

0:12:43.600,0:12:47.839
uh for e-commerce merchants or retailers

0:12:46.320,0:12:50.880
in general merchants

0:12:47.839,0:12:52.320
and um i going back like i wanna say

0:12:50.880,0:12:54.079
eight years or something like that i was

0:12:52.320,0:12:57.519
a developer in-house with um

0:12:54.079,0:12:59.279
an e-commerce store and we i was looking

0:12:57.519,0:13:00.639
to find like oh how do you forecast

0:12:59.279,0:13:02.560
inventory

0:13:00.639,0:13:05.040
and uh i looked into it there was like

0:13:02.560,0:13:06.639
nothing out there netsuite was the only

0:13:05.040,0:13:09.600
option for it

0:13:06.639,0:13:10.720
um and i remember like posting to quora

0:13:09.600,0:13:12.240
and like

0:13:10.720,0:13:13.360
looking for answers and it's one of

0:13:12.240,0:13:15.200
these things that's been in the back of

0:13:13.360,0:13:16.320
my mind literally ever since then

0:13:15.200,0:13:18.800
i think i've talked about it a couple

0:13:16.320,0:13:22.160
different times and um

0:13:18.800,0:13:24.160
so when i saw this i was like and i know

0:13:22.160,0:13:26.000
cogs is doing a bunch of different stuff

0:13:24.160,0:13:28.000
not just there's like buy side

0:13:26.000,0:13:29.680
optimization sell side optimization

0:13:28.000,0:13:31.360
and things like that so it might not

0:13:29.680,0:13:32.800
just really be focused on

0:13:31.360,0:13:34.959
inventory forecasting the way i'm

0:13:32.800,0:13:35.920
thinking about it but anyways when i saw

0:13:34.959,0:13:38.480
it i was like

0:13:35.920,0:13:39.680
this is it you know um but so how did

0:13:38.480,0:13:42.560
you get the idea for

0:13:39.680,0:13:43.839
for cogsi and and what's the uh what's

0:13:42.560,0:13:47.760
the plan for it

0:13:43.839,0:13:50.000
yeah um the idea um so context here i

0:13:47.760,0:13:53.199
mean the idea goes back years ago

0:13:50.000,0:13:54.720
so my wife runs um a big e-cars business

0:13:53.199,0:13:57.519
in south africa locally

0:13:54.720,0:13:58.880
um like doing hair extensions and hair

0:13:57.519,0:14:01.760
care range

0:13:58.880,0:14:02.240
and i i found myself in that position of

0:14:01.760,0:14:05.680
being

0:14:02.240,0:14:07.120
cto um essentially which or

0:14:05.680,0:14:08.720
like that's the that's a that's a

0:14:07.120,0:14:11.120
glorified title sorry

0:14:08.720,0:14:12.480
i am the support agent on call for

0:14:11.120,0:14:16.480
anything there you go

0:14:12.480,0:14:17.360
um let's not um there is a hierarchy in

0:14:16.480,0:14:20.000
that cto

0:14:17.360,0:14:21.839
makes you feel better about yourself

0:14:20.000,0:14:23.839
exactly

0:14:21.839,0:14:25.760
so so i've been supporting her on that

0:14:23.839,0:14:26.399
front and the further context here is i

0:14:25.760,0:14:28.560
actually have

0:14:26.399,0:14:29.920
um i studied accounting at university so

0:14:28.560,0:14:30.560
what my degree is in accounting that's

0:14:29.920,0:14:32.079
where

0:14:30.560,0:14:33.360
you know i came from it was my dad's

0:14:32.079,0:14:36.079
dream for me to be a chartered

0:14:33.360,0:14:39.680
accountant i luckily dodged that bullet

0:14:36.079,0:14:40.800
um but i've always i've always been like

0:14:39.680,0:14:43.519
you know and that's a whole different

0:14:40.800,0:14:45.680
story but i've always been kind of um

0:14:43.519,0:14:46.720
financially savvy in that sense like

0:14:45.680,0:14:48.160
accounting center i understand the

0:14:46.720,0:14:49.839
principles i can apply it

0:14:48.160,0:14:51.279
for conversion i did kind of our own

0:14:49.839,0:14:52.720
kind of bookkeeping and accounting up

0:14:51.279,0:14:56.240
until acquisition

0:14:52.720,0:14:58.880
so in my business um she uses

0:14:56.240,0:15:01.120
uh inventory management solution that i

0:14:58.880,0:15:02.880
will not name

0:15:01.120,0:15:04.240
because i don't like criticizing other

0:15:02.880,0:15:06.880
people's products

0:15:04.240,0:15:07.279
at least in public where there's records

0:15:06.880,0:15:09.360
yeah

0:15:07.279,0:15:11.040
and yeah one of the biggest challenges

0:15:09.360,0:15:14.079
we've always had in her business

0:15:11.040,0:15:16.240
is just getting good cogs data literally

0:15:14.079,0:15:17.680
cost of goods sold do that in a reliable

0:15:16.240,0:15:22.000
manner right

0:15:17.680,0:15:24.079
um and we literally have like

0:15:22.000,0:15:26.079
spending years so much you know so many

0:15:24.079,0:15:28.399
hours working with the kind of

0:15:26.079,0:15:30.079
software provider um and my wife's

0:15:28.399,0:15:31.759
business is on shopify right so

0:15:30.079,0:15:33.199
people can make their own assumptions

0:15:31.759,0:15:34.399
there there aren't that many of these

0:15:33.199,0:15:36.000
solutions out there

0:15:34.399,0:15:37.680
and they're literally on record killing

0:15:36.000,0:15:40.079
telling us that

0:15:37.680,0:15:42.160
don't trust the numbers that we give you

0:15:40.079,0:15:44.160
don't use them in your tax filings

0:15:42.160,0:15:46.480
we're not a financial reporting tool and

0:15:44.160,0:15:48.639
i'm like

0:15:46.480,0:15:49.519
okay you know please please explain

0:15:48.639,0:15:52.720
right

0:15:49.519,0:15:54.240
so so this happens when i start out yes

0:15:52.720,0:15:54.880
right so so this happens about two three

0:15:54.240,0:15:57.120
years ago

0:15:54.880,0:15:58.480
um probably three years ago and i look

0:15:57.120,0:16:00.000
at the idea that i'm like

0:15:58.480,0:16:01.920
the solution obviously is you know i

0:16:00.000,0:16:03.440
know how to build software not myself

0:16:01.920,0:16:05.839
but i know how to get a team together to

0:16:03.440,0:16:07.120
build software i should totally build

0:16:05.839,0:16:09.759
a competitor by the way are you a

0:16:07.120,0:16:12.480
developer by by background

0:16:09.759,0:16:12.880
no i mean i i built the very first theme

0:16:12.480,0:16:14.480
that

0:16:12.880,0:16:16.560
kind of ultimately became more themes

0:16:14.480,0:16:17.440
before i met my eventual co-founders

0:16:16.560,0:16:19.440
magnus and mark

0:16:17.440,0:16:21.440
um and i can dabble a bit in kind of

0:16:19.440,0:16:22.160
html css for anyone that is technically

0:16:21.440,0:16:24.800
out there

0:16:22.160,0:16:26.560
back then my php learning curve tapped

0:16:24.800,0:16:28.639
out when the next step would have been

0:16:26.560,0:16:30.639
php classes and i looked at a few

0:16:28.639,0:16:32.560
tutorials for classes and i was like

0:16:30.639,0:16:34.720
yeah i know i'm not that interested yeah

0:16:32.560,0:16:36.639
yeah

0:16:34.720,0:16:38.240
so like i could still like if you if you

0:16:36.639,0:16:40.079
give me something on my own blog for

0:16:38.240,0:16:41.519
example and i needed to change some html

0:16:40.079,0:16:44.000
like i could still do that but

0:16:41.519,0:16:45.920
like anything yeah beyond that like i

0:16:44.000,0:16:48.399
have better people to do that

0:16:45.920,0:16:49.920
um right anyway so we look at this and

0:16:48.399,0:16:50.480
i'm like this is totally like i should

0:16:49.920,0:16:52.959
build

0:16:50.480,0:16:53.519
some kind of accounting inventory thing

0:16:52.959,0:16:54.800
here

0:16:53.519,0:16:56.639
because there's space in the market i

0:16:54.800,0:16:57.360
think i can do it better because i'm

0:16:56.639,0:17:00.000
totally obsessed

0:16:57.360,0:17:01.120
like that's one thing i got for my dad

0:17:00.000,0:17:03.040
who is

0:17:01.120,0:17:04.319
in that kind of realm of financial

0:17:03.040,0:17:06.240
accounting as well

0:17:04.319,0:17:07.600
like attention to detail right and it

0:17:06.240,0:17:09.280
needs to be right there's a single way

0:17:07.600,0:17:10.400
and needs to be right

0:17:09.280,0:17:11.919
and then back then like it that just

0:17:10.400,0:17:12.640
didn't make sense within converge it

0:17:11.919,0:17:14.319
would have been

0:17:12.640,0:17:16.240
um a distraction for the team and i

0:17:14.319,0:17:17.839
didn't think like i could serve two guys

0:17:16.240,0:17:19.760
it didn't make sense to try and build it

0:17:17.839,0:17:22.079
separately and i also decided

0:17:19.760,0:17:23.600
and you know what this is not as sexy

0:17:22.079,0:17:26.480
fast forward a couple of years

0:17:23.600,0:17:27.919
um i'm now in a space you know having

0:17:26.480,0:17:30.080
worked like built software

0:17:27.919,0:17:32.720
marketing software which is probably the

0:17:30.080,0:17:35.200
most congested corner of the internet

0:17:32.720,0:17:36.720
and knowing how hard that is and it's

0:17:35.200,0:17:37.280
like when i started looking at new ideas

0:17:36.720,0:17:39.520
it's like

0:17:37.280,0:17:40.880
what can i build that does not qualify

0:17:39.520,0:17:42.960
itself as marketing

0:17:40.880,0:17:44.960
at all and that's when the penny dropped

0:17:42.960,0:17:46.720
that hey we had this idea back then and

0:17:44.960,0:17:47.520
when i first pitched it to my my wife

0:17:46.720,0:17:48.799
again

0:17:47.520,0:17:50.400
she's like well i've got the perfect

0:17:48.799,0:17:51.520
name for you as well you should call it

0:17:50.400,0:17:53.440
cozy so the

0:17:51.520,0:17:54.799
the name there perfectly derived from

0:17:53.440,0:17:56.880
cogs um

0:17:54.799,0:17:58.400
you know it's her name um that she came

0:17:56.880,0:17:59.600
up with so it kind of went full circle

0:17:58.400,0:18:01.039
there

0:17:59.600,0:18:02.799
i think the only thing that's changed

0:18:01.039,0:18:05.679
since is

0:18:02.799,0:18:08.320
where i thought that we would start with

0:18:05.679,0:18:09.679
building those foundations right the

0:18:08.320,0:18:11.760
i would say the financial part of

0:18:09.679,0:18:13.760
inventory management right processing

0:18:11.760,0:18:15.760
purchase orders calculating your cogs

0:18:13.760,0:18:17.600
that kind of thing like we're not going

0:18:15.760,0:18:18.160
to do that we're instead going to focus

0:18:17.600,0:18:20.799
on

0:18:18.160,0:18:21.360
two other pillars um which is kind of

0:18:20.799,0:18:23.919
helping

0:18:21.360,0:18:24.960
brands buy better so forecasting being

0:18:23.919,0:18:26.880
one of those things

0:18:24.960,0:18:29.280
and then tying that back kind of into

0:18:26.880,0:18:31.440
sounding better i think the

0:18:29.280,0:18:33.120
my whole philosophy there is um you know

0:18:31.440,0:18:35.200
as software makers we constantly build

0:18:33.120,0:18:36.080
these incredibly sophisticated powerful

0:18:35.200,0:18:37.760
tools

0:18:36.080,0:18:39.360
and then we put it into unsophisticated

0:18:37.760,0:18:41.200
users hands and

0:18:39.360,0:18:43.360
the data the insight the recommendation

0:18:41.200,0:18:45.520
is there but the action is sometimes

0:18:43.360,0:18:46.960
just so far out of grasp for some users

0:18:45.520,0:18:47.600
and we saw that with email marketing

0:18:46.960,0:18:48.960
right where

0:18:47.600,0:18:51.120
like most of these things is drag and

0:18:48.960,0:18:53.280
drop you know you know clicker does that

0:18:51.120,0:18:55.360
wizzy wig kind of thing

0:18:53.280,0:18:56.960
and they still get stuck right because

0:18:55.360,0:18:58.480
there's still a gap between

0:18:56.960,0:19:00.320
i theoretically understand what needs to

0:18:58.480,0:19:01.120
happen here i don't know exactly how to

0:19:00.320,0:19:03.200
implement it

0:19:01.120,0:19:04.720
in my business so with cogsi like i want

0:19:03.200,0:19:07.520
to make sure that we

0:19:04.720,0:19:09.360
tie any any insight any kind of you know

0:19:07.520,0:19:10.400
purchasing decision directly to a sales

0:19:09.360,0:19:11.679
station like and

0:19:10.400,0:19:12.960
essentially make sure that that cash

0:19:11.679,0:19:14.000
flow loop which is ultimately what it

0:19:12.960,0:19:16.080
comes down to

0:19:14.000,0:19:17.360
is you know purring and whizzing away

0:19:16.080,0:19:20.559
like

0:19:17.360,0:19:22.720
a rolls royce i love it

0:19:20.559,0:19:25.200
so what does that look like tying every

0:19:22.720,0:19:26.720
purchasing decision to a sales decision

0:19:25.200,0:19:29.919
like what is that gonna

0:19:26.720,0:19:32.480
look like practically so

0:19:29.919,0:19:34.400
the simplest example i have is is the

0:19:32.480,0:19:35.919
following helen um so

0:19:34.400,0:19:37.760
take for example so part of what we're

0:19:35.919,0:19:38.080
building for for v1 and then the second

0:19:37.760,0:19:39.600
part

0:19:38.080,0:19:41.520
that i'll describe is is definitely kind

0:19:39.600,0:19:43.919
of a subsequent feature right but

0:19:41.520,0:19:45.440
part of what we built for v1 is a

0:19:43.919,0:19:47.120
prioritization matrix

0:19:45.440,0:19:48.640
of all of your skus so for anyone that

0:19:47.120,0:19:51.760
has multiple skus

0:19:48.640,0:19:53.760
you probably kind of the basic version

0:19:51.760,0:19:56.080
of this would be abc analysis there's

0:19:53.760,0:19:58.240
other solutions to do abc analysis right

0:19:56.080,0:19:59.200
essentially just grades your products

0:19:58.240,0:20:00.559
based on

0:19:59.200,0:20:02.720
the value they're contributing to the

0:20:00.559,0:20:03.840
business at any given stage right a

0:20:02.720,0:20:06.559
being bestsellers

0:20:03.840,0:20:07.840
c being things that you should probably

0:20:06.559,0:20:10.720
might already be obsolete

0:20:07.840,0:20:11.200
right so we've expanded on that and

0:20:10.720,0:20:13.760
built

0:20:11.200,0:20:14.799
more of privatization kind of matrix and

0:20:13.760,0:20:15.280
one of the things that we actually

0:20:14.799,0:20:18.320
consider

0:20:15.280,0:20:19.760
is we look at the kind of ltv for when a

0:20:18.320,0:20:21.280
product is purchased by a first time

0:20:19.760,0:20:21.840
customer right because the theory there

0:20:21.280,0:20:23.440
is

0:20:21.840,0:20:25.360
a product with a high kind of your first

0:20:23.440,0:20:26.880
time customer ltv

0:20:25.360,0:20:28.480
is a bestseller right you should never

0:20:26.880,0:20:30.320
run out of that product right you don't

0:20:28.480,0:20:32.799
necessarily know at that stage

0:20:30.320,0:20:33.600
when that customer is going to come back

0:20:32.799,0:20:35.840
and make their

0:20:33.600,0:20:37.120
second third fourth purchase but it's an

0:20:35.840,0:20:38.480
indication that when they purchase this

0:20:37.120,0:20:40.400
product for whatever reason as well

0:20:38.480,0:20:42.799
right cogsi does not know that

0:20:40.400,0:20:44.880
but they have a higher ltd right so

0:20:42.799,0:20:47.919
built this prioritization matrix

0:20:44.880,0:20:49.360
and in the kind of the lowest you know

0:20:47.919,0:20:51.919
crappiest quadrants

0:20:49.360,0:20:52.480
is your obsolete items and a simple way

0:20:51.919,0:20:54.559
of then

0:20:52.480,0:20:56.000
you know kind of beyond that the basic

0:20:54.559,0:20:56.480
prioritization framework here by the way

0:20:56.000,0:20:58.080
is

0:20:56.480,0:20:59.600
that you allocate more of your working

0:20:58.080,0:21:01.760
capital and available cash

0:20:59.600,0:21:03.200
to the higher up kind of you know

0:21:01.760,0:21:06.480
categorized or classified

0:21:03.200,0:21:10.799
skus right for those obsolete skus

0:21:06.480,0:21:12.480
a simple tool is to build kind of a

0:21:10.799,0:21:14.640
to have a persistent kind of clearance

0:21:12.480,0:21:15.440
or specials collection on your shopify

0:21:14.640,0:21:17.520
store

0:21:15.440,0:21:18.480
and constantly just when a product falls

0:21:17.520,0:21:20.320
into that category

0:21:18.480,0:21:22.159
you just shift there like cogsy will

0:21:20.320,0:21:24.000
automatically move it there for you

0:21:22.159,0:21:25.440
um we will mark it down based on rules

0:21:24.000,0:21:26.240
that you set like if we have your cogs

0:21:25.440,0:21:28.080
data

0:21:26.240,0:21:29.360
um you know available for example like a

0:21:28.080,0:21:31.280
simple rule would be

0:21:29.360,0:21:33.120
mark this down at cost and just get rid

0:21:31.280,0:21:33.600
of it right because at that stage when a

0:21:33.120,0:21:35.600
product is

0:21:33.600,0:21:37.280
you know obsolete it's more important

0:21:35.600,0:21:38.720
for you to have that extra cash and you

0:21:37.280,0:21:40.240
can rather invest in growth channels

0:21:38.720,0:21:42.720
right then it's just sitting there

0:21:40.240,0:21:43.440
in a warehouse somewhere so that is how

0:21:42.720,0:21:45.360
we hope to

0:21:43.440,0:21:46.799
tie these things together that's one you

0:21:45.360,0:21:48.960
know kind of one example

0:21:46.799,0:21:49.840
that we have there right so that's we're

0:21:48.960,0:21:52.159
definitely building

0:21:49.840,0:21:53.919
um i don't know what timeline that is

0:21:52.159,0:21:55.679
but like that is one example

0:21:53.919,0:21:57.200
that we want to build there and as i

0:21:55.679,0:21:58.240
said it's all about that finding that

0:21:57.200,0:22:00.400
constant loop

0:21:58.240,0:22:01.440
between spending money making sure it

0:22:00.400,0:22:03.120
comes back in

0:22:01.440,0:22:05.520
and then spending it again whether it's

0:22:03.120,0:22:07.840
on where there's inventory again or on

0:22:05.520,0:22:09.919
other growth channels

0:22:07.840,0:22:11.200
that's interesting i just remembered

0:22:09.919,0:22:14.000
when i built the uh

0:22:11.200,0:22:16.240
email marketing software for magento uh

0:22:14.000,0:22:18.240
that was a business that got acquired

0:22:16.240,0:22:19.600
the first version of it i wanted to

0:22:18.240,0:22:22.880
charge a

0:22:19.600,0:22:25.440
percentage of um profit

0:22:22.880,0:22:26.320
not revenue but profit because in

0:22:25.440,0:22:29.679
magento

0:22:26.320,0:22:30.480
there's a cost of goods field uh on the

0:22:29.679,0:22:32.240
product

0:22:30.480,0:22:33.840
and so that was the first version of it

0:22:32.240,0:22:35.039
because i just wanted it to you know it

0:22:33.840,0:22:36.559
was like at the end of the day as a

0:22:35.039,0:22:38.240
business it's profit that matters it's

0:22:36.559,0:22:41.440
not revenue right people get

0:22:38.240,0:22:43.120
that twisted sometimes um and then

0:22:41.440,0:22:44.720
what happened is that some like the

0:22:43.120,0:22:46.400
initial couple of merchants happened to

0:22:44.720,0:22:48.559
have that data

0:22:46.400,0:22:49.760
um but then as i as they started to grow

0:22:48.559,0:22:51.840
other people just didn't have it they

0:22:49.760,0:22:53.120
didn't want to put the data in

0:22:51.840,0:22:55.200
the back end they didn't want to take

0:22:53.120,0:22:57.039
the time to put their cost of goods in

0:22:55.200,0:22:58.559
so it just became kind of impractical

0:22:57.039,0:22:59.600
then i just went to charging off of

0:22:58.559,0:23:03.520
revenue

0:22:59.600,0:23:05.200
um so is the idea yeah sorry go ahead

0:23:03.520,0:23:06.640
no and i just say like that boggles my

0:23:05.200,0:23:08.080
mind by the way right

0:23:06.640,0:23:10.240
i've spoken with so many like through

0:23:08.080,0:23:12.080
conversion days like spoken with so many

0:23:10.240,0:23:13.919
business you know businesses

0:23:12.080,0:23:15.440
that can't tell me like when i asked

0:23:13.919,0:23:16.480
them listen what's your average kind of

0:23:15.440,0:23:18.640
gross margin here

0:23:16.480,0:23:19.600
like what what what's what's gross

0:23:18.640,0:23:21.600
margin right

0:23:19.600,0:23:22.720
i i don't even know how to calculate it

0:23:21.600,0:23:25.360
right and like

0:23:22.720,0:23:26.400
for me that's scary because we also know

0:23:25.360,0:23:28.000
at the same time that

0:23:26.400,0:23:29.600
the merchants don't know that or the

0:23:28.000,0:23:30.240
businesses don't know that they're

0:23:29.600,0:23:31.679
spending

0:23:30.240,0:23:33.760
loads of money whether it's on facebook

0:23:31.679,0:23:35.200
ads you know google ads whatever and i

0:23:33.760,0:23:37.840
just know like if you don't know

0:23:35.200,0:23:39.200
your gross margin there's no way whether

0:23:37.840,0:23:40.799
you really know

0:23:39.200,0:23:42.720
that this kind of acquisition channel

0:23:40.799,0:23:44.480
that you have going here is

0:23:42.720,0:23:45.919
by any means contributing positively to

0:23:44.480,0:23:47.440
the business or not right

0:23:45.919,0:23:49.120
because they're seeing those things in

0:23:47.440,0:23:49.679
silos and they're measuring it on top

0:23:49.120,0:23:52.320
line

0:23:49.679,0:23:52.720
which top-line revenue that is which

0:23:52.320,0:23:55.039
can't

0:23:52.720,0:23:56.720
like you know maybe their margins are

0:23:55.039,0:23:57.520
just so big and their unit economics and

0:23:56.720,0:24:01.440
their ads

0:23:57.520,0:24:03.120
is performing so well and it works

0:24:01.440,0:24:04.480
but that's flying blind right and like

0:24:03.120,0:24:06.559
am i like that's just not

0:24:04.480,0:24:09.440
like i don't know how i can build a

0:24:06.559,0:24:12.480
business like that for example

0:24:09.440,0:24:13.520
yeah so the idea that they'll just go in

0:24:12.480,0:24:16.080
and just plug in

0:24:13.520,0:24:18.000
their does shop like does shopify have a

0:24:16.080,0:24:20.720
way to put cost of goods directly

0:24:18.000,0:24:21.600
into the the product manager in the back

0:24:20.720,0:24:24.559
end

0:24:21.600,0:24:26.080
yeah so they it was a recent change

0:24:24.559,0:24:28.159
right so i don't know when

0:24:26.080,0:24:29.919
um so it might be like six months ago it

0:24:28.159,0:24:31.520
might be two years ago i just never

0:24:29.919,0:24:32.000
noticed it but yes every product this

0:24:31.520,0:24:35.200
thing now

0:24:32.000,0:24:36.880
has a a single cost of you know goods um

0:24:35.200,0:24:39.360
you know or i think i call it say cost

0:24:36.880,0:24:42.799
price and it's a static number which

0:24:39.360,0:24:43.440
is also like that changes right i mean

0:24:42.799,0:24:44.720
depending on

0:24:43.440,0:24:47.120
there's multiple different ways of

0:24:44.720,0:24:48.960
calculating a cost of your products

0:24:47.120,0:24:50.559
i think your moving average cost is

0:24:48.960,0:24:53.840
probably the best way to do it

0:24:50.559,0:24:55.520
um but a single static number

0:24:53.840,0:24:56.880
interestingly enough like what is moving

0:24:55.520,0:24:59.520
average cost

0:24:56.880,0:25:00.720
sorry yes no so moving energy cost in

0:24:59.520,0:25:03.760
that sense would be

0:25:00.720,0:25:05.919
um if you it essentially takes

0:25:03.760,0:25:07.360
if i order 10 that i'm going to do quick

0:25:05.919,0:25:10.480
math on air now um

0:25:07.360,0:25:11.600
which will make me look really smart or

0:25:10.480,0:25:13.760
really stupid so

0:25:11.600,0:25:14.880
so for example you ordered um you know

0:25:13.760,0:25:18.000
10 products

0:25:14.880,0:25:18.720
at 10 bucks right and another 10 same

0:25:18.000,0:25:20.400
skew right

0:25:18.720,0:25:22.799
so 10 units let's call the units 10

0:25:20.400,0:25:23.279
units at 10 bucks another 10 units at 20

0:25:22.799,0:25:26.559
bucks

0:25:23.279,0:25:28.559
you've got 20 units cost you 300 bucks

0:25:26.559,0:25:29.440
so the moving average cost there is 15

0:25:28.559,0:25:32.640
bucks it's neither

0:25:29.440,0:25:34.240
10 or 20. so you kind of average that

0:25:32.640,0:25:36.000
you you kind of average that out like

0:25:34.240,0:25:38.720
other ways of doing it

0:25:36.000,0:25:40.159
is exactly right so i think the two

0:25:38.720,0:25:41.200
other prominent ones would be either

0:25:40.159,0:25:44.640
kind of lost in

0:25:41.200,0:25:46.880
first out or first in first out right so

0:25:44.640,0:25:49.200
just taking that loss but those are

0:25:46.880,0:25:51.279
actually technically also much harder

0:25:49.200,0:25:52.880
to pull off in an inversely system so

0:25:51.279,0:25:55.120
the moving average cost

0:25:52.880,0:25:57.279
um is just a much much simpler way for

0:25:55.120,0:25:58.720
you to essentially constantly order and

0:25:57.279,0:26:01.440
reorder from your vendors

0:25:58.720,0:26:03.840
and keep that number up to date in

0:26:01.440,0:26:03.840
aggregate

0:26:05.360,0:26:11.679
and the um the uh inventory forecasting

0:26:11.200,0:26:14.880
um

0:26:11.679,0:26:16.799
how is that uh how is that going to work

0:26:14.880,0:26:18.080
are you are you using a like a pretty

0:26:16.799,0:26:20.960
basic like

0:26:18.080,0:26:23.760
uh what's it called like algorithm um to

0:26:20.960,0:26:25.120
to forecast that out

0:26:23.760,0:26:26.480
yeah and i'm thinking how much

0:26:25.120,0:26:27.120
progression that's the word i was

0:26:26.480,0:26:30.799
looking for

0:26:27.120,0:26:32.400
yeah so so yes we are

0:26:30.799,0:26:34.480
what we essentially do is we've got a

0:26:32.400,0:26:37.120
kind of you know auto machine learning

0:26:34.480,0:26:38.320
um you know mechanism that would

0:26:37.120,0:26:39.679
essentially kind of when a merchant

0:26:38.320,0:26:41.600
plugs into cogsi

0:26:39.679,0:26:43.360
we run it through that the algorithm

0:26:41.600,0:26:45.039
essentially finds through six different

0:26:43.360,0:26:47.039
kind of algorithms right

0:26:45.039,0:26:48.960
um all based on kind of regression like

0:26:47.039,0:26:49.440
time series you know based analysis

0:26:48.960,0:26:51.200
there

0:26:49.440,0:26:52.640
and finds the one that has been based on

0:26:51.200,0:26:55.600
your data is

0:26:52.640,0:26:56.400
um the most sorry the least volatile

0:26:55.600,0:26:59.679
right

0:26:56.400,0:27:01.840
um and like one of those for example is

0:26:59.679,0:27:03.600
we use facebook's profit algorithm right

0:27:01.840,0:27:06.320
which open source that's one of the

0:27:03.600,0:27:07.120
kind of the options that we use there so

0:27:06.320,0:27:08.720
to be able to

0:27:07.120,0:27:10.480
what's that one that's super interesting

0:27:08.720,0:27:13.360
i i've never heard of that

0:27:10.480,0:27:14.000
yeah so facebook profit um i i didn't

0:27:13.360,0:27:16.080
know about it

0:27:14.000,0:27:17.760
either right until i started working on

0:27:16.080,0:27:18.799
cogsy to be honest um but essentially

0:27:17.760,0:27:21.760
facebook has

0:27:18.799,0:27:23.600
created that kind of your time series

0:27:21.760,0:27:26.640
and by the way i'm not a data scientist

0:27:23.600,0:27:28.720
so um i'm butchering my kind of

0:27:26.640,0:27:29.840
my terms here but essentially what it

0:27:28.720,0:27:32.720
does is

0:27:29.840,0:27:34.399
it can look at kind of the past and it

0:27:32.720,0:27:36.399
will factor in seasonality

0:27:34.399,0:27:38.559
to make a prediction on future and you

0:27:36.399,0:27:41.679
can essentially pass it as many

0:27:38.559,0:27:45.200
um kind of nodes of information

0:27:41.679,0:27:49.200
as you want wow i gotta check that out

0:27:45.200,0:27:51.279
okay yeah open source okay

0:27:49.200,0:27:53.200
so um sorry i interrupted you serious

0:27:51.279,0:27:54.000
saying that the facebook profit was one

0:27:53.200,0:27:57.200
of the ones

0:27:54.000,0:28:00.399
that you're gonna you'd use

0:27:57.200,0:28:02.480
exactly and and to be honest um kellen

0:28:00.399,0:28:04.159
i think the the one thing that people

0:28:02.480,0:28:08.000
never get from me is i

0:28:04.159,0:28:09.440
i really dislike uh how overhyped

0:28:08.000,0:28:11.120
artificial intelligence and machine

0:28:09.440,0:28:12.880
learning is by many startups

0:28:11.120,0:28:14.480
right products especially early stage

0:28:12.880,0:28:15.840
products um

0:28:14.480,0:28:17.360
like there's many of these chatbots for

0:28:15.840,0:28:19.039
example that's just a kind of a

0:28:17.360,0:28:19.520
combination of a bunch of you know if

0:28:19.039,0:28:21.919
else

0:28:19.520,0:28:24.080
this then whatever statements right it's

0:28:21.919,0:28:26.640
not artificial intelligence right

0:28:24.080,0:28:27.679
and i have a problem with that like i i

0:28:26.640,0:28:29.440
just can't

0:28:27.679,0:28:31.679
i can't [ __ ] people to the extent

0:28:29.440,0:28:32.399
all right so to be honest like with

0:28:31.679,0:28:34.240
cogsi

0:28:32.399,0:28:35.760
we're not trying to reinvent the wheel

0:28:34.240,0:28:37.440
on forecasting we're

0:28:35.760,0:28:38.799
leaning on the shoulders of giants we're

0:28:37.440,0:28:41.360
using best practices

0:28:38.799,0:28:42.840
like that is not like we are not going

0:28:41.360,0:28:44.880
to have

0:28:42.840,0:28:46.399
like we're not going to have a

0:28:44.880,0:28:49.120
prediction algorithm that is

0:28:46.399,0:28:50.240
10 better than an alternative in market

0:28:49.120,0:28:52.480
like that's not the

0:28:50.240,0:28:53.600
usp that we have here the usp that we're

0:28:52.480,0:28:55.679
going through you know for

0:28:53.600,0:28:57.120
is the whole package right that

0:28:55.679,0:28:59.120
essentially yeah and

0:28:57.120,0:29:01.200
like the messaging and positioning is

0:28:59.120,0:29:02.080
evolving but i'm imagining causing to be

0:29:01.200,0:29:04.159
more of a

0:29:02.080,0:29:05.360
automated operations platform than

0:29:04.159,0:29:07.520
merely kind of

0:29:05.360,0:29:08.640
a kind of a prediction algorithm or

0:29:07.520,0:29:11.200
inventory management

0:29:08.640,0:29:11.760
or inventory optimization tool so yeah

0:29:11.200,0:29:13.279
like

0:29:11.760,0:29:15.039
i actually think that the forecasting

0:29:13.279,0:29:16.799
stuff is probably the least

0:29:15.039,0:29:18.640
kind of interesting things that we will

0:29:16.799,0:29:21.200
we will be doing this year

0:29:18.640,0:29:22.240
um yeah yeah it's funny because i

0:29:21.200,0:29:25.279
remember at the time

0:29:22.240,0:29:26.720
thinking that like this like they can't

0:29:25.279,0:29:29.520
be that comp like

0:29:26.720,0:29:31.039
there's got to be some um algorithms

0:29:29.520,0:29:32.000
that that are just existing that you

0:29:31.039,0:29:35.360
could plug into

0:29:32.000,0:29:37.760
to um to make some really useful

0:29:35.360,0:29:40.159
um forecasts and i remember thinking at

0:29:37.760,0:29:43.600
the time like this has got to be

0:29:40.159,0:29:47.120
really doable um so

0:29:43.600,0:29:48.720
uh yeah that's that's really cool um

0:29:47.120,0:29:50.480
so we haven't talked about the book too

0:29:48.720,0:29:54.159
much um but

0:29:50.480,0:29:56.159
but so when when is that coming out um

0:29:54.159,0:29:57.440
and what's you know what what's the uh

0:29:56.159,0:29:58.720
who like who's it going to be relevant

0:29:57.440,0:29:59.840
to what's kind of the message of the

0:29:58.720,0:30:02.960
book

0:29:59.840,0:30:03.919
yeah so firstly because it's called life

0:30:02.960,0:30:05.760
profitability

0:30:03.919,0:30:07.360
the new measure of entrepreneurial

0:30:05.760,0:30:11.360
success um

0:30:07.360,0:30:14.399
it's out on 26 january um

0:30:11.360,0:30:17.039
after a rigorous writing and publishing

0:30:14.399,0:30:17.520
process um but it's our 26th february

0:30:17.039,0:30:20.559
and

0:30:17.520,0:30:21.279
oh generally sorry and um the at the

0:30:20.559,0:30:23.600
core

0:30:21.279,0:30:24.720
um of the book what i'm essentially

0:30:23.600,0:30:26.640
doing or trying to do

0:30:24.720,0:30:28.880
and how i present the idea and the

0:30:26.640,0:30:32.399
concept of life for profitability is

0:30:28.880,0:30:35.679
as an augmented version of capitalism um

0:30:32.399,0:30:36.720
as an entrepreneur i don't think

0:30:35.679,0:30:38.720
capitalism is bad

0:30:36.720,0:30:40.000
but i also see many of its flaws and

0:30:38.720,0:30:40.640
i've experienced many of those flaws i

0:30:40.000,0:30:42.880
mean i

0:30:40.640,0:30:44.480
like we chatted earlier about kind of

0:30:42.880,0:30:46.399
you know me getting to that point of

0:30:44.480,0:30:48.080
you know almost losing all the things

0:30:46.399,0:30:50.000
that are important to me right and

0:30:48.080,0:30:51.679
and my ambition was part of that

0:30:50.000,0:30:53.600
contributing factor

0:30:51.679,0:30:54.799
and what i hope to do with life

0:30:53.600,0:30:56.399
profitability is

0:30:54.799,0:30:58.000
kind of just shift the notion of when

0:30:56.399,0:30:58.960
you think about you know either a

0:30:58.000,0:31:01.919
professional career

0:30:58.960,0:31:02.640
or building a business not just have

0:31:01.919,0:31:04.720
that thing

0:31:02.640,0:31:06.399
be financially profitable right in the

0:31:04.720,0:31:08.799
narrow sense of the word

0:31:06.399,0:31:10.080
but actually kind of you be really

0:31:08.799,0:31:10.720
profitable in the sense of your whole

0:31:10.080,0:31:12.960
life

0:31:10.720,0:31:14.080
right and like for me there's a simple

0:31:12.960,0:31:17.200
way i mean you alluded to

0:31:14.080,0:31:19.120
um how i'm trying to at least on twitter

0:31:17.200,0:31:20.320
and kind of small conversations how i've

0:31:19.120,0:31:21.840
tried to shift this

0:31:20.320,0:31:24.000
perspective on work-life balance right i

0:31:21.840,0:31:24.960
mean that for me when i think about life

0:31:24.000,0:31:27.200
profitability

0:31:24.960,0:31:28.559
i think the like it's very different to

0:31:27.200,0:31:29.200
work-life balance which i don't think

0:31:28.559,0:31:31.440
can exist

0:31:29.200,0:31:32.559
because proposing that work and life can

0:31:31.440,0:31:34.720
be imbalanced

0:31:32.559,0:31:35.760
it suggests that they are independent

0:31:34.720,0:31:37.279
opposite things

0:31:35.760,0:31:39.519
that can ultimately balance each other

0:31:37.279,0:31:41.279
out and i just believe that

0:31:39.519,0:31:42.559
like i think work is just part of life

0:31:41.279,0:31:44.880
very simply kind of

0:31:42.559,0:31:46.320
we're not i i don't believe that we're

0:31:44.880,0:31:48.559
on this earth to work

0:31:46.320,0:31:49.679
right like we work because that's how

0:31:48.559,0:31:51.200
society functions

0:31:49.679,0:31:52.880
but ultimately work is just a component

0:31:51.200,0:31:55.039
of life and the way i like to think

0:31:52.880,0:31:57.120
about life profitability thus

0:31:55.039,0:31:58.559
is kind of thinking about my life

0:31:57.120,0:32:00.159
portfolio and what i need to put in

0:31:58.559,0:32:01.919
there and my work and ambition is just

0:32:00.159,0:32:03.919
one of those things right for me

0:32:01.919,0:32:05.039
like my intro probably included those

0:32:03.919,0:32:07.039
other things why it's

0:32:05.039,0:32:08.559
um you know my family being my highest

0:32:07.039,0:32:10.320
daddy my family is important to me my

0:32:08.559,0:32:12.320
family needs to be in there

0:32:10.320,0:32:13.360
my own health you know mental emotional

0:32:12.320,0:32:15.120
physical otherwise

0:32:13.360,0:32:16.799
that's important to me um you're

0:32:15.120,0:32:17.519
drinking really good wine or really

0:32:16.799,0:32:19.120
great wine

0:32:17.519,0:32:20.960
wine that i love like those things are

0:32:19.120,0:32:22.240
important to me and i essentially need

0:32:20.960,0:32:24.640
to make sure that

0:32:22.240,0:32:25.279
that the whole life portfolio makes

0:32:24.640,0:32:28.799
sense

0:32:25.279,0:32:31.039
and turns a life profit um

0:32:28.799,0:32:31.919
yeah so that's that's the kind of fuel

0:32:31.039,0:32:34.480
i'm i'm totally

0:32:31.919,0:32:36.159
testing or and kind of your um kind of

0:32:34.480,0:32:36.799
you know iterating on on the elevator

0:32:36.159,0:32:38.720
pitch for

0:32:36.799,0:32:40.159
for the block which i've not given my

0:32:38.720,0:32:43.919
many times yet

0:32:40.159,0:32:46.240
right no that's great um yeah i mean um

0:32:43.919,0:32:48.880
it it makes sense that because work is

0:32:46.240,0:32:52.240
is a part of life so how can you

0:32:48.880,0:32:53.360
balance them against each other um and

0:32:52.240,0:32:55.360
i was thinking about what you said

0:32:53.360,0:32:56.960
earlier about like working on us

0:32:55.360,0:32:58.559
on a saturday morning or something like

0:32:56.960,0:33:01.360
that and um

0:32:58.559,0:33:01.919
i've been doing that kind of thing uh as

0:33:01.360,0:33:05.039
well

0:33:01.919,0:33:06.720
like i'm a very like routine person

0:33:05.039,0:33:08.960
so there's there are some things like

0:33:06.720,0:33:10.559
saturday you know family time we do some

0:33:08.960,0:33:12.480
stuff like for me to spend the whole

0:33:10.559,0:33:12.960
saturday working and not with the family

0:33:12.480,0:33:15.760
would be

0:33:12.960,0:33:17.360
insane whereas in the past i would just

0:33:15.760,0:33:20.559
slip into that

0:33:17.360,0:33:22.080
um but if i have like an hour

0:33:20.559,0:33:23.600
half hour where i'm feeling really

0:33:22.080,0:33:24.799
excited about something i'll do some

0:33:23.600,0:33:26.720
work and then

0:33:24.799,0:33:28.240
you know like kind of ride that energy

0:33:26.720,0:33:30.399
wave you know it's like

0:33:28.240,0:33:32.880
i'll i'll kind of go with that energy

0:33:30.399,0:33:34.720
but for a limited amount of time

0:33:32.880,0:33:36.080
and then boom right into the family time

0:33:34.720,0:33:38.640
without being

0:33:36.080,0:33:40.240
uh distracted and thinking about work

0:33:38.640,0:33:42.080
all the time you know

0:33:40.240,0:33:43.600
exactly and in that sense it's a i think

0:33:42.080,0:33:45.679
it's a like

0:33:43.600,0:33:46.960
interplay right is a much better way of

0:33:45.679,0:33:49.519
thinking about kind of

0:33:46.960,0:33:51.440
you know work and life right interplay

0:33:49.519,0:33:52.159
yeah i also think like that we spoke

0:33:51.440,0:33:53.919
about awareness

0:33:52.159,0:33:55.200
like and then having that attend an

0:33:53.919,0:33:57.919
intent like

0:33:55.200,0:33:59.679
when like when you feel that energy like

0:33:57.919,0:34:00.720
i'm going to work now that is the intent

0:33:59.679,0:34:03.039
here right and i'm

0:34:00.720,0:34:04.640
intentionally following that energy

0:34:03.039,0:34:05.519
versus as soon as i step out of my

0:34:04.640,0:34:07.679
office again and i

0:34:05.519,0:34:09.359
kind of you know go back to the family

0:34:07.679,0:34:11.839
my intention is to be present

0:34:09.359,0:34:14.000
with them right so like hence why i like

0:34:11.839,0:34:14.879
that kind of interplay of energies right

0:34:14.000,0:34:18.320
without being

0:34:14.879,0:34:20.800
too esoteric um yeah like that's

0:34:18.320,0:34:22.159
like i think those those things um like

0:34:20.800,0:34:22.879
those are the things i kind of touch on

0:34:22.159,0:34:25.040
the book and i

0:34:22.879,0:34:26.560
i also really wanted to write the kind

0:34:25.040,0:34:28.079
of book

0:34:26.560,0:34:29.919
that i didn't want to write a how-to

0:34:28.079,0:34:31.280
book because i hate how to books i

0:34:29.919,0:34:32.480
absolutely hate this idea that for

0:34:31.280,0:34:33.280
anything in life there's a perfect

0:34:32.480,0:34:34.879
blueprint and

0:34:33.280,0:34:36.480
like you can just give me a checklist of

0:34:34.879,0:34:37.200
your 10 things write a chapter about

0:34:36.480,0:34:38.320
each and then

0:34:37.200,0:34:39.679
if i implement that i'm going to

0:34:38.320,0:34:40.560
accomplish the goal that's on the cover

0:34:39.679,0:34:43.200
of the book

0:34:40.560,0:34:44.960
so with life profitability like i really

0:34:43.200,0:34:46.960
double down on this notion that

0:34:44.960,0:34:48.240
like every one of us will have to

0:34:46.960,0:34:50.720
discover our own life

0:34:48.240,0:34:52.159
profitability and yes like if you and i

0:34:50.720,0:34:53.440
did that exercise like there might be

0:34:52.159,0:34:54.320
overlaps i think there are certain

0:34:53.440,0:34:56.000
things that are

0:34:54.320,0:34:57.680
more universal but they're probably more

0:34:56.000,0:34:59.440
in the realm of like

0:34:57.680,0:35:00.800
things that's hard to quantify right

0:34:59.440,0:35:03.040
like space i think

0:35:00.800,0:35:05.440
like having space in one's life that's

0:35:03.040,0:35:07.920
an attribute of of life profitability

0:35:05.440,0:35:08.640
but how that space manifests for each of

0:35:07.920,0:35:11.520
us

0:35:08.640,0:35:12.640
is probably different right um or unique

0:35:11.520,0:35:14.160
and very specific to

0:35:12.640,0:35:16.320
our needs in our context our

0:35:14.160,0:35:18.160
environments so

0:35:16.320,0:35:19.599
like that that kind of you know again

0:35:18.160,0:35:22.000
like to your point of

0:35:19.599,0:35:23.839
you know working on a saturday like

0:35:22.000,0:35:26.079
that's like if that works for you

0:35:23.839,0:35:27.520
then that probably kind of makes sense

0:35:26.079,0:35:29.920
in your life portfolio

0:35:27.520,0:35:32.800
and then no book that i can write should

0:35:29.920,0:35:36.000
ever discourage that

0:35:32.800,0:35:38.320
yeah what is your um

0:35:36.000,0:35:40.800
what does your like mindfulness practice

0:35:38.320,0:35:40.800
look like

0:35:40.880,0:35:46.800
haphazard um so

0:35:44.079,0:35:47.599
i when i started on mindfulness journey

0:35:46.800,0:35:50.960
um

0:35:47.599,0:35:51.599
i kind of and the way i described this

0:35:50.960,0:35:52.560
for people

0:35:51.599,0:35:54.240
as well because i think there's a

0:35:52.560,0:35:55.280
misconception between mindfulness and

0:35:54.240,0:35:57.200
meditation

0:35:55.280,0:35:58.720
i think in the same way like if i wanted

0:35:57.200,0:36:01.920
bigger biceps right

0:35:58.720,0:36:02.400
i would go do bicep curls in the gym

0:36:01.920,0:36:04.560
right

0:36:02.400,0:36:05.760
and that's that extent like that's just

0:36:04.560,0:36:07.520
an exercise

0:36:05.760,0:36:09.520
that i'm doing to strengthen a muscle

0:36:07.520,0:36:11.839
and meditation in my mind

0:36:09.520,0:36:13.680
is an exercise you do to strengthen the

0:36:11.839,0:36:15.839
muscle of mindfulness that's how i

0:36:13.680,0:36:17.920
understand that so when i stumbled into

0:36:15.839,0:36:20.480
mindfulness back in the day

0:36:17.920,0:36:21.200
um like for the first year i used

0:36:20.480,0:36:23.280
headspace

0:36:21.200,0:36:24.960
right to my phone didn't break kind of

0:36:23.280,0:36:27.599
the streak meditated well

0:36:24.960,0:36:28.880
i got just short of there like 361 days

0:36:27.599,0:36:31.440
or something like that

0:36:28.880,0:36:32.720
and and all in all honestly like as soon

0:36:31.440,0:36:34.160
as i broke that streak

0:36:32.720,0:36:36.000
i knew i was never going to do this

0:36:34.160,0:36:37.200
daily again there was

0:36:36.000,0:36:38.560
there was some part of this year where

0:36:37.200,0:36:39.599
it's like oh there's too much work

0:36:38.560,0:36:42.720
getting here

0:36:39.599,0:36:45.280
but right that aside what that did was

0:36:42.720,0:36:46.320
that's i said like i've retained some of

0:36:45.280,0:36:47.359
that kind of muscle like literally in

0:36:46.320,0:36:50.000
the same way that

0:36:47.359,0:36:50.640
even you know after a physical injury

0:36:50.000,0:36:52.480
like if you're

0:36:50.640,0:36:54.400
fit there is that muscle memory like

0:36:52.480,0:36:57.359
your body remembers these things

0:36:54.400,0:36:58.160
so yeah i now kind of meditate some

0:36:57.359,0:37:01.040
mornings

0:36:58.160,0:37:02.160
right um and i meditate for 10 15

0:37:01.040,0:37:04.160
minutes

0:37:02.160,0:37:05.200
doing normal you know vipassana just

0:37:04.160,0:37:08.240
kind of breath work

0:37:05.200,0:37:09.440
stuff i kind of try and write

0:37:08.240,0:37:11.520
something in the morning some kind of

0:37:09.440,0:37:12.560
your morning pages um or

0:37:11.520,0:37:14.960
if it's not in the morning just

0:37:12.560,0:37:16.640
elsewhere um and then i've learned to

0:37:14.960,0:37:19.520
kind of meditate whilst running so

0:37:16.640,0:37:20.480
oftentimes um i won't take my headphones

0:37:19.520,0:37:22.160
out for a run

0:37:20.480,0:37:24.560
and what i'll just do is i'll literally

0:37:22.160,0:37:26.079
just count every second step that i take

0:37:24.560,0:37:28.000
and i'll just get into kind of that

0:37:26.079,0:37:28.800
groove so i think there's multiple ways

0:37:28.000,0:37:31.520
for me to

0:37:28.800,0:37:33.359
keep that muscle fit essentially and

0:37:31.520,0:37:33.920
just keep that mindfulness and awareness

0:37:33.359,0:37:36.160
about

0:37:33.920,0:37:37.680
kind of what is happening around me like

0:37:36.160,0:37:40.720
what am i thinking

0:37:37.680,0:37:41.920
what am i feeling so as i said it's i

0:37:40.720,0:37:44.160
think it's more

0:37:41.920,0:37:45.680
i call it haphazard it's like more ad

0:37:44.160,0:37:47.200
hoc right i don't have things that i

0:37:45.680,0:37:50.320
feel anymore that i

0:37:47.200,0:37:53.760
need to do every single day

0:37:50.320,0:37:57.040
to feel grounded or calm or at peace

0:37:53.760,0:37:59.920
whatever kind of work yeah yeah

0:37:57.040,0:38:00.480
yeah for me it's like um trying to

0:37:59.920,0:38:04.000
become

0:38:00.480,0:38:06.079
more aware of like how i'm feeling and

0:38:04.000,0:38:08.079
how i'm doing and if i'm

0:38:06.079,0:38:09.920
if i'm distracted one of the questions i

0:38:08.079,0:38:11.359
love in the uh tim ferriss's book tools

0:38:09.920,0:38:13.200
for titans is like what do you do when

0:38:11.359,0:38:16.320
you feel distracted

0:38:13.200,0:38:17.760
um or unfocused and a lot of people have

0:38:16.320,0:38:18.079
different approach to take a walk take a

0:38:17.760,0:38:21.599
run

0:38:18.079,0:38:25.119
whatever and it's so weird how

0:38:21.599,0:38:28.079
you can be unaware of how you're

0:38:25.119,0:38:28.800
actually feeling like it's it's such a

0:38:28.079,0:38:31.839
bizarre

0:38:28.800,0:38:33.920
thing that you can just be kind of

0:38:31.839,0:38:35.839
and there's this anxiety that's ramping

0:38:33.920,0:38:38.400
up in you but you're not even

0:38:35.839,0:38:39.839
and um it's like i'll notice myself

0:38:38.400,0:38:41.200
feeling tense more

0:38:39.839,0:38:43.119
and i'll take a deep breath and i'll be

0:38:41.200,0:38:45.520
like whoa i was like

0:38:43.119,0:38:46.240
really just like laying down watching tv

0:38:45.520,0:38:48.640
or something

0:38:46.240,0:38:49.440
and i'm tense about what i'm watching

0:38:48.640,0:38:52.800
and i'll be like

0:38:49.440,0:38:54.640
wow like i was so tense right there it's

0:38:52.800,0:38:57.040
such a strange thing

0:38:54.640,0:38:58.480
yeah yeah and that like what do you

0:38:57.040,0:39:00.079
describe there in my opinion is exactly

0:38:58.480,0:39:00.480
what mindfulness is right i think many

0:39:00.079,0:39:03.599
people

0:39:00.480,0:39:05.359
go into that notion of um you know i

0:39:03.599,0:39:06.079
need to meditate i need to be mindful

0:39:05.359,0:39:08.000
which means

0:39:06.079,0:39:09.200
i have to clear my mind of all thoughts

0:39:08.000,0:39:10.079
right everything needs to be perfect

0:39:09.200,0:39:11.920
there's this

0:39:10.079,0:39:14.240
kind of you know padded white room and

0:39:11.920,0:39:16.320
you just float into it and just kind of

0:39:14.240,0:39:17.440
at least and you kind of zen there

0:39:16.320,0:39:19.680
and that's not what it is right

0:39:17.440,0:39:21.920
mindfulness is just seeing

0:39:19.680,0:39:24.000
being aware of these things that are you

0:39:21.920,0:39:25.599
know

0:39:24.000,0:39:26.720
that are just there like i wanted to

0:39:25.599,0:39:28.880
kind of judge those things but just

0:39:26.720,0:39:29.200
seeing them in a non-judgmental way and

0:39:28.880,0:39:31.200
just

0:39:29.200,0:39:32.800
acknowledging them right and sometimes

0:39:31.200,0:39:35.040
it is not about even taking an action

0:39:32.800,0:39:36.480
just saying well you know what that is

0:39:35.040,0:39:38.960
you know that is so i

0:39:36.480,0:39:40.079
i think the the most fun story that i

0:39:38.960,0:39:42.160
have in this regard

0:39:40.079,0:39:43.119
is in the year that i stumbled into

0:39:42.160,0:39:46.160
mindfulness

0:39:43.119,0:39:49.119
i also ran my first and only marathon

0:39:46.160,0:39:49.920
and i'm a like i'm a big boned guy at

0:39:49.119,0:39:52.640
least right i

0:39:49.920,0:39:53.119
i'm not built for for long distances and

0:39:52.640,0:39:56.560
i

0:39:53.119,0:39:59.520
i ran 2000 kilometers that year um

0:39:56.560,0:40:01.119
did a sub for kind of marathon and due

0:39:59.520,0:40:02.640
to kind of the story where and i'm not

0:40:01.119,0:40:04.319
gonna tell the whole story of how

0:40:02.640,0:40:06.240
buddha became buddha right but where

0:40:04.319,0:40:08.319
he's sitting under the bodhi tree

0:40:06.240,0:40:09.440
and then eventually mara the demon you

0:40:08.319,0:40:10.720
know comes and

0:40:09.440,0:40:13.119
she comes to tempt him because he's

0:40:10.720,0:40:14.960
there and he's trying to be mindful

0:40:13.119,0:40:16.800
trying to meditate and and maura

0:40:14.960,0:40:19.040
constantly comes back and he eventually

0:40:16.800,0:40:20.640
he just says hey mara i see you and he

0:40:19.040,0:40:22.079
actually says tomorrow

0:40:20.640,0:40:24.160
come have tea with me come sit down

0:40:22.079,0:40:25.040
right and he invites this kind of

0:40:24.160,0:40:27.440
negative thing

0:40:25.040,0:40:28.880
in and with the marathon what i

0:40:27.440,0:40:30.319
literally did was

0:40:28.880,0:40:33.119
every single kilometer as soon as my

0:40:30.319,0:40:35.440
watch beeped right i would just say

0:40:33.119,0:40:37.440
hey mara i see you and that was that was

0:40:35.440,0:40:40.880
just that very simple thing for me

0:40:37.440,0:40:42.880
saying you know what new kilometer

0:40:40.880,0:40:44.480
i don't know what this kilometer holds

0:40:42.880,0:40:46.000
i've heard about this wall that's coming

0:40:44.480,0:40:46.720
up where everything in my body is gonna

0:40:46.000,0:40:49.599
break down

0:40:46.720,0:40:49.920
i've never been there but hey i see you

0:40:49.599,0:40:51.839
like

0:40:49.920,0:40:53.440
i know you're there and that's okay like

0:40:51.839,0:40:55.280
i'm not gonna judge you i'm just gonna

0:40:53.440,0:40:56.480
keep on putting one foot you know in

0:40:55.280,0:40:58.480
front of the other and i think

0:40:56.480,0:40:59.520
like that's right in my mind is that

0:40:58.480,0:41:02.400
sometimes

0:40:59.520,0:41:03.680
these things sound very esoteric but

0:41:02.400,0:41:06.800
it's it's just that

0:41:03.680,0:41:10.160
it's just seeing what is already there

0:41:06.800,0:41:13.520
yeah what is it like to be building

0:41:10.160,0:41:14.640
a company a sas product in like this

0:41:13.520,0:41:16.880
like

0:41:14.640,0:41:18.480
mindful way it's like a lot of times

0:41:16.880,0:41:20.400
like the pattern is

0:41:18.480,0:41:22.400
you build the thing you're anxious

0:41:20.400,0:41:24.240
you're working

0:41:22.400,0:41:26.079
you get the success and then you're like

0:41:24.240,0:41:28.000
oh i need to learn to relax

0:41:26.079,0:41:29.280
and then you you know like you go off

0:41:28.000,0:41:30.240
and do something else you become an

0:41:29.280,0:41:34.000
author you become

0:41:30.240,0:41:36.240
like i love the interview with leo um

0:41:34.000,0:41:38.960
windrick of buffer uh and how he's

0:41:36.240,0:41:40.960
transitioning into coaching and stuff

0:41:38.960,0:41:42.480
but then like for you to be building

0:41:40.960,0:41:45.440
something from the ground up

0:41:42.480,0:41:47.280
and doing it in like a fully you know

0:41:45.440,0:41:50.160
kind of mindful way

0:41:47.280,0:41:51.119
uh what's that like you know like like

0:41:50.160,0:41:53.200
are you

0:41:51.119,0:41:55.040
like do you get stressed out when you're

0:41:53.200,0:41:56.640
working like do you get into that

0:41:55.040,0:41:57.920
different state of mind that different

0:41:56.640,0:42:01.119
mode or

0:41:57.920,0:42:02.800
is it pretty balanced no i

0:42:01.119,0:42:04.720
i don't think it's i don't think it's

0:42:02.800,0:42:07.680
balanced right so and um

0:42:04.720,0:42:09.280
like the best story i have is i had some

0:42:07.680,0:42:11.200
late night calls last night

0:42:09.280,0:42:12.800
because i live in a beautiful country

0:42:11.200,0:42:15.119
but the time zone is crappy

0:42:12.800,0:42:16.720
relative to like the center of the

0:42:15.119,0:42:17.599
universe which is obviously the united

0:42:16.720,0:42:19.680
states

0:42:17.599,0:42:20.960
um of america right so i had late night

0:42:19.680,0:42:23.040
calls and this morning when i

0:42:20.960,0:42:24.480
caught up with my wife and she asked

0:42:23.040,0:42:26.720
how's it called bubba how are you

0:42:24.480,0:42:29.040
feeling now and i said you know what

0:42:26.720,0:42:29.760
it feels like kante is in limbo right

0:42:29.040,0:42:31.599
and

0:42:29.760,0:42:32.880
like lumber was just the word i used cox

0:42:31.599,0:42:34.640
isn't really in limbo

0:42:32.880,0:42:35.839
but that's how it feels like and she

0:42:34.640,0:42:37.200
called me on it like she said listen

0:42:35.839,0:42:39.920
you're like you need to change this

0:42:37.200,0:42:41.599
language like this is not helpful to you

0:42:39.920,0:42:43.040
but i tell this story because that's

0:42:41.599,0:42:45.760
still sometimes how it feels

0:42:43.040,0:42:46.960
right it's still like i'm still this

0:42:45.760,0:42:50.240
ambitious guy that

0:42:46.960,0:42:52.319
sometimes wants to accomplish 80 hours

0:42:50.240,0:42:54.240
worth of your work a week or progress

0:42:52.319,0:42:56.400
make 80 hours worth of progress week

0:42:54.240,0:42:57.680
even when i rationally know that no

0:42:56.400,0:42:59.839
smart person

0:42:57.680,0:43:02.480
has that much productive hours in them

0:42:59.839,0:43:05.280
right no knowledge worker at least

0:43:02.480,0:43:06.880
um plus i know that's kind of the

0:43:05.280,0:43:08.000
collateral damage that that creates for

0:43:06.880,0:43:09.680
me for my family

0:43:08.000,0:43:11.280
for my friends you know people that are

0:43:09.680,0:43:13.200
close to me um

0:43:11.280,0:43:14.560
so i know i said rationing i know all

0:43:13.200,0:43:16.880
these things now

0:43:14.560,0:43:19.359
and yet i still find myself figuring

0:43:16.880,0:43:22.720
those things out and again like i think

0:43:19.359,0:43:24.000
my gut feel here is i don't think that

0:43:22.720,0:43:25.839
will ever go away

0:43:24.000,0:43:27.599
when you're ambitious when you're doing

0:43:25.839,0:43:30.480
something that means a lot to you

0:43:27.599,0:43:32.000
again like i think the ego just needs to

0:43:30.480,0:43:32.640
be acknowledged right if there was no

0:43:32.000,0:43:34.560
ego

0:43:32.640,0:43:35.839
we would not have makers we would not

0:43:34.560,0:43:36.640
have created we would not have

0:43:35.839,0:43:37.920
innovators

0:43:36.640,0:43:39.839
we would not have authors we wouldn't

0:43:37.920,0:43:41.440
have these things we would have no i

0:43:39.839,0:43:44.640
have no progress because why

0:43:41.440,0:43:45.119
like why would you do that so i think

0:43:44.640,0:43:47.280
like

0:43:45.119,0:43:48.240
that is always part of the equation and

0:43:47.280,0:43:50.400
i've not

0:43:48.240,0:43:51.280
kind of completely figured out for

0:43:50.400,0:43:53.920
myself

0:43:51.280,0:43:55.440
all i know is at least part of my own

0:43:53.920,0:43:57.680
life profitability here is

0:43:55.440,0:43:59.359
i now spot those things sooner the

0:43:57.680,0:44:00.319
things where i'm compromising the things

0:43:59.359,0:44:02.160
that are leading to

0:44:00.319,0:44:04.560
kind of you know greater life costs or

0:44:02.160,0:44:06.160
life losses i spot them sooner

0:44:04.560,0:44:08.079
and i can take corrective action or it

0:44:06.160,0:44:11.359
can take alternative action at least

0:44:08.079,0:44:15.200
so that is what it feels like like i am

0:44:11.359,0:44:16.800
i'm just as ambitious as before like no

0:44:15.200,0:44:19.200
like it's to some extent like no amount

0:44:16.800,0:44:20.000
of success makes me less ambitious

0:44:19.200,0:44:22.000
because

0:44:20.000,0:44:23.440
again like um and i mentioned challenges

0:44:22.000,0:44:24.240
earlier like money itself does not

0:44:23.440,0:44:26.640
motivate me

0:44:24.240,0:44:27.680
like other things motivate me right the

0:44:26.640,0:44:29.599
yeah so anyway

0:44:27.680,0:44:31.680
there's a whole tangent there but to

0:44:29.599,0:44:33.280
your point like to your question

0:44:31.680,0:44:34.800
like the only thing that's really

0:44:33.280,0:44:37.839
changed is

0:44:34.800,0:44:38.640
my ability to be aware of the things

0:44:37.839,0:44:42.240
that are not great

0:44:38.640,0:44:45.520
much sooner than i was in the past right

0:44:42.240,0:44:47.359
right that's awesome man

0:44:45.520,0:44:48.839
well this has been a great little chat i

0:44:47.359,0:44:50.480
appreciate it appreciate you taking the

0:44:48.839,0:44:52.880
time um

0:44:50.480,0:44:54.319
where's the best place for people to uh

0:44:52.880,0:44:55.760
you know follow you online

0:44:54.319,0:44:58.400
find out more about all the stuff that

0:44:55.760,0:45:00.560
you got going on yeah so um

0:44:58.400,0:45:02.720
best part for you is my personal website

0:45:00.560,0:45:06.319
ad dot me a double i

0:45:02.720,0:45:07.680
me 80 because i decided on nickname when

0:45:06.319,0:45:09.359
in the year that the wii had come out so

0:45:07.680,0:45:09.839
i thought i was being clever and now i

0:45:09.359,0:45:12.400
need to

0:45:09.839,0:45:13.200
always what is this nickname thing i

0:45:12.400,0:45:14.880
feel like i remember

0:45:13.200,0:45:16.880
i heard you on one podcast saying

0:45:14.880,0:45:18.000
something about your name is a made-up

0:45:16.880,0:45:20.880
name or something i was like

0:45:18.000,0:45:21.760
is that i don't even remember if i is it

0:45:20.880,0:45:23.599
yeah so

0:45:21.760,0:45:25.520
so so i my my birth name so i'm

0:45:23.599,0:45:26.800
afrikaans right my first language which

0:45:25.520,0:45:28.800
is very similar to dutch

0:45:26.800,0:45:30.640
for those in north america so my birth

0:45:28.800,0:45:32.880
name is adrian

0:45:30.640,0:45:34.400
and even i like my tongue does not roll

0:45:32.880,0:45:35.760
the same way in english so

0:45:34.400,0:45:38.319
like the obvious thing would have been

0:45:35.760,0:45:40.480
to use adrian

0:45:38.319,0:45:42.800
i just hate adrian so i was like no i'm

0:45:40.480,0:45:44.880
not going to do that so the simon 80

0:45:42.800,0:45:46.240
initially called myself rockstar so

0:45:44.880,0:45:48.240
didn't even call myself

0:45:46.240,0:45:50.319
my real surname for the longest time

0:45:48.240,0:45:52.319
kind of building you know with commerce

0:45:50.319,0:45:55.520
i was just known as 80 rockstar

0:45:52.319,0:45:57.520
um but yeah so now now i'm 80

0:45:55.520,0:45:58.720
so anyway personal personal website a

0:45:57.520,0:46:00.720
double i.m.e

0:45:58.720,0:46:02.800
and that's also where the podcast lives

0:46:00.720,0:46:04.960
the book all the details are there

0:46:02.800,0:46:06.240
and for anyone that wants to kind of

0:46:04.960,0:46:07.680
turn more of their working capital if

0:46:06.240,0:46:09.440
your e-commerce brand wants to turn your

0:46:07.680,0:46:11.200
kind of working capital into cash and

0:46:09.440,0:46:12.640
use that like either kind of buy

0:46:11.200,0:46:13.359
yourself something nice or reinvest it

0:46:12.640,0:46:15.440
into

0:46:13.359,0:46:16.560
growth things you can have a look at

0:46:15.440,0:46:18.319
cogsy.com

0:46:16.560,0:46:20.319
we'll be launching the first version

0:46:18.319,0:46:25.040
publicly probably in the next

0:46:20.319,0:46:25.040
two or three weeks